[sword-devel] *THREAD CLOSED* (was: CrossWire mirroring)
Troy A. Griffitts
scribe at crosswire.org
Fri Jan 11 18:30:45 MST 2013
Again, we've been over this too many times to continue to flood this
list. I will explain it one last time to you, also closing this thread.
From ground zero, assume you have zero permission to distribute a work
which is copyrighted.
CrossWire has asked and received permission from a publisher to
distribute a particular copyrighted work.
This is not exclusive. Many other people may have been granted
permission from the copyright holder.
CrossWire's agreement does not give YOU permission to distribute a
particular copyrighted work-- it gives CrossWire permission to
distribute said work. If you would like permission, simply obtain your
own permission from the copyright holders. Though I wouldn't encourage
this, as we have already said that we don't see a need for mirrors.
Thank you for ceasing this discussion,
On 01/12/2013 01:08 AM, Andrew Thule wrote:
> Nic, no I didn't miss the point.
> You are claiming this privelge is exclusive. If so, the terms of this
> agreement must be both registered and public. Anyone can claim
> anything they want about what they are able to do, and what others are
> not able to do, but these claims are only true if the terms of the law
> is met.
> As long as Crosswire is engaged in the public non-commercial
> distribution of modules, and refused to prove its right to do this is
> exclusive, it should accept is has no ability to control them
> once they've left Crosswire.
> On Friday, January 11, 2013, Nic Carter wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
> You completely miss the point!
> CrossWire has the right to distribute certain modules. In order to
> satisfy our legal agreement with the copyright holders we can can
> only distribute from "CrossWire". We do not own the copyright, we
> have to abide by the same rules as anyone else. We are simply in
> the awesome position of having been granted permission.
> Also, when I say "we", I am meaning CrossWire. However, even
> though I am a volunteer as part of CrossWire, that does not give
> me the right to distribute anything. Distribution has to be simply
> by CrossWire and the most proper way to satisfy those legal
> agreements is to distribute from an official CrossWire domain so
> as to strive the hardest to remain above board. :)
> I am now lead to believe that what certain other people have said
> here is correct and that you do not understand any of this legal
> mumbo jumbo at all, and hence I think you should cease trying to
> educate others and instead simply cede to Troy and if you wish to
> help with this project, follow his lead, asking him what he wants
> of you.
> Thank you.
> Nic... :)
> On 12/01/2013, at 10:40, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com
>> Ultimately, the issue is about licensing rights on modules, which
>> appears to be a very touchy subject around here. I suspect this
>> is so because without actual licenses, which are essentially
>> legal agreements (I'm not talking about .conf files which are not
>> legal agreements), its pretty much impossible to claims
>> legal rights and restrictions exist without proof.
>> As people like to point out, Copyright resides with the Copyright
>> owner. For a third party to 'claim' the right to distribute text
>> they are not the Copyright owner of, explicit license had to have
>> been given (a legally binding agreement). What this means for
>> mirrors is this:
>> Anyone can run an FTP service.
>> Anyone can call the directories anything they want in said FTP
>> What people place in their FTP servers is where the controversy
>> Others, (not me) have already pointed out that Crosswire doesn't
>> (and can't) control modules once they leave Crosswire's repo.
>> This means Crosswire, as the non-owner, has nothing to say about
>> modules elsewhere. Crosswire tries to asserts legal right over
>> some modules however. There are only two ways under copyright
>> law, Crosswire can exercise rights over copyrighted work:
>> 1. Direct Ownership. Para 106 of of US Copyright law says that
>> the Copyright owner has exclusive rights over their wok, so
>> Crosswire would have to prove it were the Copyright Owner; or
>> 2. Transfer and Licensing of rights. The Owner can transfer
>> rights through formal agreement specificaly expressing those
>> rights (and ultimately granted through a written instrument,
>> signed by the grantor). This is a license, or possibly exclusive
>> license. Under US law, exclusive licenses must be recorded in
>> the US Copyright office or exclusive license is not valid (Para 408)
>> If Crosswire has been exclusively license then, it may establish
>> a rule only certain repositories may distribute modules, but the
>> terms of this license (with the Copyright owner) are not secret
>> (and indeed a matter of public record).
>> If Crosswire has not been exclusively licensed however, Crosswire
>> has no legal right to prohibit others from distributing modules
>> it freely distributes in a non-commercial manner (however much it
>> rants and maligns others).
>> That means for there to be a *.crosswire.org
>> <http://crosswire.org> 'rule' Crosswire's exclusive license must
>> be registered and public, or it lacks authority to assert rights
>> over text it doesn't own. People should not get upset when this
>> rule is not followed then.
>> (Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the law)
>> On Thursday, January 10, 2013, David Blue wrote:
>> Based on the*.crosswire.org <http://crosswire.org> rule I
>> would say the best option when and if mirrors are needed is
>> to have some sort of round robin dns that picks a mirror from
>> an internal list the way microsoft.com <http://microsoft.com>
>> or my Linux distro does download.opensuse.org
>> <http://download.opensuse.org> for it's package repos. Sorry
>> for the top post'
>> Nic Carter <niccarter at mac.com> wrote:
>> Sent from my phone, hence this email may be short...
>> On 08/01/2013, at 8:51, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com> wrote:
>> As long as Crosswire has policies in place
>> govererning official mirrors there should no no
>> worries mirrors are out of sync, in which case
>> preferred mirror selection can be left to the user,
>> and indeed mirror checking behaviour configurable.
>> Yup, policy is no mirrors at this point in time.
>> It is thought that there _may_ be room in the future for some, but these will be done from a *.crosswire.org <http://crosswire.org> domain so as to satisfy copyright requirements.
>> Easy :)
>> Thanks for your thoughts & I'm glad we can now put this discussion to rest. :)
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