[sword-devel] *THREAD CLOSED* (was: CrossWire mirroring)

Troy A. Griffitts scribe at crosswire.org
Fri Jan 11 18:30:45 MST 2013


Again, we've been over this too many times to continue to flood this 
list.  I will explain it one last time to you, also closing this thread.

 From ground zero, assume you have zero permission to distribute a work 
which is copyrighted.
CrossWire has asked and received permission from a publisher to 
distribute a particular copyrighted work.

This is not exclusive.  Many other people may have been granted 
permission from the copyright holder.
CrossWire's agreement does not give YOU permission to distribute a 
particular copyrighted work-- it gives CrossWire permission to 
distribute said work.  If you would like permission, simply obtain your 
own permission from the copyright holders.  Though I wouldn't encourage 
this, as we have already said that we don't see a need for mirrors.

Thank you for ceasing this discussion,


On 01/12/2013 01:08 AM, Andrew Thule wrote:
> Nic, no I didn't miss the point.
> You are claiming this privelge is exclusive.  If so, the terms of this 
> agreement must be both registered and public.  Anyone can claim 
> anything they want about what they are able to do, and what others are 
> not able to do, but these claims are only true if the terms of the law 
> is met.
> As long as Crosswire is engaged in the public non-commercial 
> distribution of modules, and refused to prove its right to do this is 
> exclusive, it should accept is has no ability to control them 
> once they've left Crosswire.
> ~A
> On Friday, January 11, 2013, Nic Carter wrote:
>     Hi Andrew,
>     You completely miss the point!
>     CrossWire has the right to distribute certain modules. In order to
>     satisfy our legal agreement with the copyright holders we can can
>     only distribute from "CrossWire". We do not own the copyright, we
>     have to abide by the same rules as anyone else. We are simply in
>     the awesome position of having been granted permission.
>     Also, when I say "we", I am meaning CrossWire. However, even
>     though I am a volunteer as part of CrossWire, that does not give
>     me the right to distribute anything. Distribution has to be simply
>     by CrossWire and the most proper way to satisfy those legal
>     agreements is to distribute from an official CrossWire domain so
>     as to strive the hardest to remain above board. :)
>     I am now lead to believe that what certain other people have said
>     here is correct and that you do not understand any of this legal
>     mumbo jumbo at all, and hence I think you should cease trying to
>     educate others and instead simply cede to Troy and if you wish to
>     help with this project, follow his lead, asking him what he wants
>     of you.
>     Thank you.
>     Nic...  :)
>     On 12/01/2013, at 10:40, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com
>     <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'thulester at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>     Ultimately, the issue is about licensing rights on modules, which
>>     appears to be a very touchy subject around here.  I suspect this
>>     is so because without actual licenses, which are essentially
>>     legal agreements (I'm not talking about .conf files which are not
>>     legal agreements), its pretty much impossible to claims
>>     legal rights and restrictions exist without proof.
>>     As people like to point out, Copyright resides with the Copyright
>>     owner.  For a third party to 'claim' the right to distribute text
>>     they are not the Copyright owner of, explicit license had to have
>>     been given (a legally binding agreement).  What this means for
>>     mirrors is this:
>>     Anyone can run an FTP service.
>>     Anyone can call the directories anything they want in said FTP
>>     service.
>>     What people place in their FTP servers is where the controversy
>>     starts.
>>     Others, (not me) have already pointed out that Crosswire doesn't
>>     (and can't) control modules once they leave Crosswire's repo.
>>      This means Crosswire, as the non-owner, has nothing to say about
>>     modules elsewhere.  Crosswire tries to asserts legal right over
>>     some modules however.  There are only two ways under copyright
>>     law, Crosswire can exercise rights over copyrighted work:
>>     1. Direct Ownership. Para 106 of of US Copyright law says that
>>     the Copyright owner has exclusive rights over their wok, so
>>     Crosswire would have to prove it were the Copyright Owner; or
>>     2. Transfer and Licensing of rights. The Owner can transfer
>>     rights through formal agreement specificaly expressing those
>>     rights (and ultimately granted through a written instrument,
>>     signed by the grantor). This is a license, or possibly exclusive
>>     license.  Under US law, exclusive licenses must be recorded in
>>     the US Copyright office or exclusive license is not valid (Para 408)
>>     If Crosswire has been exclusively license then, it may establish
>>     a rule only certain repositories may distribute modules, but the
>>     terms of this license (with the Copyright owner) are not secret
>>     (and indeed a matter of public record).
>>     If Crosswire has not been exclusively licensed however, Crosswire
>>     has no legal right to prohibit others from distributing modules
>>     it freely distributes in a non-commercial manner (however much it
>>     rants and maligns others).
>>     That means for there to be a *.crosswire.org
>>     <http://crosswire.org> 'rule' Crosswire's exclusive license must
>>     be registered and public, or it lacks authority to assert rights
>>     over text it doesn't own. People should not get upset when this
>>     rule is not followed then.
>>     (Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the law)
>>     ~A
>>     On Thursday, January 10, 2013, David Blue wrote:
>>         Based on the*.crosswire.org <http://crosswire.org> rule I
>>         would say the best option when and if mirrors are needed is
>>         to have some sort of round robin dns that picks a mirror from
>>         an internal list the way microsoft.com <http://microsoft.com>
>>         or my Linux distro does download.opensuse.org
>>         <http://download.opensuse.org> for it's package repos. Sorry
>>         for the top post'
>>         Nic Carter <niccarter at mac.com> wrote:
>>             Sent from my phone, hence this email may be short...
>>             On 08/01/2013, at 8:51, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com> wrote:
>>                 As long as Crosswire has policies in place
>>                 govererning official mirrors there should no no
>>                 worries mirrors are out of sync, in which case
>>                 preferred mirror selection can be left to the user,
>>                 and indeed mirror checking behaviour configurable.
>>             Yup, policy is no mirrors at this point in time.
>>             It is thought that there _may_ be room in the future for some, but these will be done from a *.crosswire.org  <http://crosswire.org>  domain so as to satisfy copyright requirements.
>>             Easy :)
>>             Thanks for your thoughts & I'm glad we can now put this discussion to rest. :)
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>             sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>             http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>             Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>     <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'sword-devel at crosswire.org');>
>>     http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>>     Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/attachments/20130112/c94dbf91/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the sword-devel mailing list