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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Andrew,<br>
<br>
Again, we've been over this too many times to continue to flood
this list. I will explain it one last time to you, also closing
this thread.<br>
<br>
From ground zero, assume you have zero permission to distribute a
work which is copyrighted.<br>
CrossWire has asked and received permission from a publisher to
distribute a particular copyrighted work.<br>
<br>
This is not exclusive. Many other people may have been granted
permission from the copyright holder.<br>
CrossWire's agreement does not give YOU permission to distribute a
particular copyrighted work-- it gives CrossWire permission to
distribute said work. If you would like permission, simply obtain
your own permission from the copyright holders. Though I wouldn't
encourage this, as we have already said that we don't see a need
for mirrors.<br>
<br>
Thank you for ceasing this discussion,<br>
<br>
Troy<br>
<br>
<br>
On 01/12/2013 01:08 AM, Andrew Thule wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAM9DYGDTPhORs7c6YZMfEKRNe5YVNCMAq+zvMeZQoPnREEYY9A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Nic, no I didn't miss the point.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You are claiming this privelge is exclusive. If so, the
terms of this agreement must be both registered and public.
Anyone can claim anything they want about what they are able to
do, and what others are not able to do, but these claims are
only true if the terms of the law is met.<br>
<br>
As long as Crosswire is engaged in the public non-commercial
distribution of modules, and refused to prove its right to do
this is exclusive, it should accept is has no ability to control
them once<span></span> they've left Crosswire.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~A<br>
<br>
On Friday, January 11, 2013, Nic Carter wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi Andrew,</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>You completely miss the point!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>CrossWire has the right to distribute certain modules.
In order to satisfy our legal agreement with the copyright
holders we can can only distribute from "CrossWire". We do
not own the copyright, we have to abide by the same rules
as anyone else. We are simply in the awesome position of
having been granted permission.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, when I say "we", I am meaning CrossWire. However,
even though I am a volunteer as part of CrossWire, that
does not give me the right to distribute anything.
Distribution has to be simply by CrossWire and the most
proper way to satisfy those legal agreements is to
distribute from an official CrossWire domain so as to
strive the hardest to remain above board. :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am now lead to believe that what certain other people
have said here is correct and that you do not understand
any of this legal mumbo jumbo at all, and hence I think
you should cease trying to educate others and instead
simply cede to Troy and if you wish to help with this
project, follow his lead, asking him what he wants of you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nic... :)<br>
<br>
On 12/01/2013, at 10:40, Andrew Thule <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
'thulester@gmail.com');" target="_blank">thulester@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Ultimately, the issue is about licensing rights on
modules, which appears to be a very touchy subject
around here. I suspect this is so because without
actual licenses, which are essentially legal
agreements (I'm not talking about .conf files which are
not legal agreements), its pretty much impossible to
claims legal rights and restrictions exist without
proof.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>As people like to point out, Copyright resides with
the Copyright owner. For a third party to 'claim' the
right to distribute text they are not the
Copyright owner of, explicit license had to have been
given (a legally binding agreement). What this means
for mirrors is this:</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>Anyone can run an FTP service.</div>
<div>Anyone can call the directories anything they
want in said FTP service.</div>
<div>What people place in their FTP servers is where
the controversy starts.</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Others, (not me) have already pointed out that
Crosswire doesn't (and can't) control modules once
they leave Crosswire's repo. This means
Crosswire, as the non-owner, has nothing to say
about modules elsewhere. Crosswire tries
to asserts legal right over some modules however.
There are only two ways under copyright law,
Crosswire can exercise rights over copyrighted
work:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1. Direct Ownership. Para 106 of of US
Copyright law says that the Copyright owner has
exclusive rights over their wok, so Crosswire
would have to prove it were the Copyright Owner;
or</div>
<div>2. Transfer and Licensing of rights. The Owner
can transfer rights through formal agreement
specificaly expressing those rights (and
ultimately granted through a written instrument,
signed by the grantor). This is a license, or
possibly exclusive license. Under US
law, exclusive licenses must be recorded in the US
Copyright office or exclusive license is not valid
(Para 408)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
If Crosswire has been exclusively license then, it
may establish a rule only certain repositories may
distribute modules, but the terms of this license
(with the Copyright owner) are not secret (and
indeed a matter of public record).</div>
<div>If Crosswire has not been exclusively
licensed however, Crosswire has no legal right to
prohibit others from distributing modules it freely
distributes in a non-commercial manner (however much
it rants and maligns others).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">That means for there to be a *.<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://crosswire.org"
target="_blank">crosswire.org</a> 'rule'
Crosswire's exclusive license must be registered and
public, or it lacks authority to assert rights over
text it doesn't own. P<span>eople should not get
upset when this rule is not followed then.<span></span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div>(Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like
the law)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~A</div>
<div><br>
<div>On Thursday, January 10, 2013, David Blue
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Based on the*.<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://crosswire.org"
target="_blank">crosswire.org</a> rule I
would say the best option when and if
mirrors are needed is to have some sort of
round robin dns that picks a mirror from an
internal list the way <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://microsoft.com"
target="_blank">microsoft.com</a> or my
Linux distro does <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://download.opensuse.org"
target="_blank">download.opensuse.org</a>
for it's package repos. Sorry for the top
post'<br>
<br>
<div>Nic Carter <<a
moz-do-not-send="true">niccarter@mac.com</a>>
wrote:
<blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;word-wrap:break-word;font-family:sans-serif;margin-top:0px">
Sent from my phone, hence this email may be short...
On 08/01/2013, at 8:51, Andrew Thule <<a moz-do-not-send="true">thulester@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
<blockquote style="margin:0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid #729fcf;padding-left:1ex">As long as Crosswire has policies in place govererning official mirrors there should no no worries mirrors are out of sync, in which case preferred mirror selection can be left to the user, and indeed mirror checking behaviour configurable.</blockquote>
Yup, policy is no mirrors at this point in time.
It is thought that there _may_ be room in the future for some, but these will be done from a *.<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://crosswire.org" target="_blank">crosswire.org</a> domain so as to satisfy copyright requirements.
Easy :)
Thanks for your thoughts & I'm glad we can now put this discussion to rest. :)
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