[sword-devel] ISV status?

Greg Hellings greg.hellings at gmail.com
Mon Jan 7 12:02:42 MST 2013

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com> wrote:
> Greg, its not clear you understand copyright law.
> Copyright Law is generic .. it applies generally.  If you read American,
> Canadian, or European copyright law you won't find anything mentionion
> CrossWire, ISV, ESV specifically.  That means it lays down principles.
> Therefore, copyright law with respect to either printed work or digital work
> covers specifics in licenses.  If you read the licensing that comes with the
> ESV  (found here http://www.esv.org/tools/licensing/  ) which is specific,
> you'll see that nothing there says anything about CrossWire having the right
> to distribute the ESV either, which means CrossWire's 'right' to distribute
> the ESV (since the entire bible is being distributed)  is covered under its
> own license.
> Thefore anyone using CrossWire's ESV module, or developing that module are
> bound by a license that is apparently 'confidential'.
> Therefore if I have done as I've claimed, and distributed the ISV in
> contravention of some law, you should be able to produce some document that
> says I'm not permitted to do it.  Since the Copyright act doesn't
> specifically speak about the ISV, you would presumably go to the ISV
> foundation site.  Yes there is a document there (just like with the ESV),
> except it says nothing about CrossWire's right to distribute, so that
> license is not the one I've breached.   For Crosswire to assert its right to
> distribute the ISV it must have a license that says this, and that is what
> we're talking about.

The text is Copyrighted. CrossWire informs you of this in the conf
file. You are bound by whatever rights have been granted to you by the
holder of the ISV's Copyright. In this case, the text on the page you
reference is the ISV's generic rights that go out to anyone who
legally holds a copy of the text. You legally hold a copy of the text.
Therefore you are bound by that statement by the ISV's Copyright

The rights that CrossWire has negotiated separately have no bearing on
your rights to use or distribute the text. Those rights apply to
CrossWire. You have no need to see the agreements because they in no
way have a bearing on you. You are neither CrossWire nor the publisher
of the ISV nor any legal or law enforcement organization within whose
jurisdiction any of the affected parties fall.

That is how Copyright law works in the USA which is where CrossWire
falls. If you can point to a jurisdiction where you reside that is
affected by a law or requirement that Copyright agreements be made
public then you might have grounds for your request. Until then, you
are asking for private information which does not concern you.


> ~A
> .
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Greg Hellings <greg.hellings at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 12:19 PM, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > What I did have a hard time with was being publicly held accountable to
>> > license restrictions reasonably unknown to me (and apparently secret),
>> > while
>> > having the issue made personal.  It isn't reasonable to assume I knew
>> > sharing a compiled module with this group would set off a firestorm if
>> > the
>> > license between the ISV foundation and CrossWire is treated as
>> > confidential
>> You're not being held accountable to CrossWire's terms of
>> distribution. You're being held accountable to Copyright law.
>> Something you are reasonably expected to know. But which you have
>> repeatedly shown yourself either unknowledgeable of - in the case of
>> the Dead Sea Scroll modules discussion - or unwilling to abide by
>> without some sort of extra treatment - in this case knowledge of a
>> contract between two parties which has no bearing on you.
>> Stop trying to insult the rest of our intelligences by taking the
>> position of victim in this. You have shown flagrant disregard for
>> Copyright and an unwilling attitude to learn or be instructed in it.
>> --Greg
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