[sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD translations)

Andrew Thule thulester at gmail.com
Wed Nov 7 20:41:31 MST 2012

Greg said: "Fair Use" does not mean plagiarizing.

TRUE, but nobody's plagiarized - and I hope you're not accusing me of
this.  Such an unfounded accusation would raise the temperature in this
otherwise civil discussion.  I understand the legal concept of '*
transformativeness*'.   Using someone else's translation of a text is
plagiarism when you pass of their work as you own uncredited.  As already
indicated, I have and will credit the appropriate translators.


On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Greg Hellings <greg.hellings at gmail.com>wrote:

> "Fair Use" does not mean plagiarizing. Bibles are able to be quoted from,
> even extensively, to constitute "Fair Use" but you can't copy a Bible out
> of print or another electronic form, even if you do it by hand, and claim
> to be using it under "Fair Use" because it's a translation of an ancient
> work and often used for scholarship. That still constitutes plagiarism.
> There's a difference between "cit[ing] other authors work" and reproducing
> that work in its entirety. Reproduction and distribution is not "Fair Use".
> Providing quotations and commentary would be, but wholesale reproduction
> without permission is not.
> The Dead Sea Scrolls are not Copyrightable. But any translation of them is
> in at least the United States and many other countries as well. You
> distributing them without permission is a violation of that Copyright.
> Take, as an example, the NIV's notice:
> "The NIV text may be quoted in any form (written, visual, electronic or
> audio), up to and inclusive of five hundred (500) verses without express
> written permission of the publisher, providing the verses do not amount to
> a complete book of the Bible nor do the verses quoted account for
> twenty-five percent (25%) or more of the total text of the work in which
> they are quoted."
> Other Bibles offer identical or similar admonishments. Any translation of
> the Dead Sea Scrolls are under whatever Copyright their author and/or
> publishers may have placed them. And as much as you want to cry "Fair Use"
> you are beholden to the laws of the land in which you dwell to honor any
> such Copyright. In order to share your work with the CrossWire community
> the community requests that you provide proof that the works are either (1)
> placed in the public domain, (2) Are able to be reproduced and distributed
> freely, or (3) you have been granted some form of right by the Copyright
> holders to distribute them. Claiming, "But it's Fair Use because I want it
> to be or because _I_ plan to use it academically" does not meet this
> community's standards of adhering to Copyright. So please, point us to the
> disclaimer on the original sources, or to the specific laws/rulings that
> allow this into the Public Domain or provide us evidence that you have
> secured distribution rights. If you can't do those things, then the
> CrossWire community doesn't want to play host or distributor to either
> those texts or your announcement of their availability.
> --Greg
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Andrew Thule <thulester at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Peter, I assume you understand the difference between intellectual
>> property and copyright.  I also assume you understand the 'derivative work'
>> principles of 'fair use' and 'transformativeness'.
>> Within science and academia, authors may cite other authors work without
>> permission as long as they provide credit (hence the whole business of
>> citations) else science and common bodies of knowledge would not progress
>> for the sake of humanity.  This is also why copyrighting 'science' or
>> 'academic results' is generally frowned upon.
>> The Dead Sea scrolls are not themselves copyrightable.  Their
>> translations, being the product of largly publically funded academic work,
>> falls under the category of intellectual property.  As long as I cite who
>> did the original translation and transform the work significantly from its
>> originally published form (which I've done) I'm well within 'fair use'
>> however much you protest.  Moreover, when 'fair use' is for academic or
>> scientific purposes, rather than commercial purposes, the court err on the
>> side of free and open.
>> Besides, you're not being any kind of spoil sport since you're entitled
>> to your opinion and I'm really nor seeking your permission to do anything.
>>  My offer is open to the community.
>> With the greatest respect.
>> ~A
>> On Wednesday, November 7, 2012, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>>> On 07/11/12 15:52, Andrew Thule wrote:
>>>> It is a derivative work from academic translations, but for now treat as
>>>> copyrighted, until I resolve the license issue.  With the exception of
>>>> Elisha Qimron's translations (by the Israeli Supreme Court no less), all
>>>> other DSS translations are treated as academic or scientific knowledge,
>>>> and so free for use, subject to citation.
>>> I hate being a spoilsport (and I think I get form in that...), but I do
>>> not think this will cut it. What is "academic" in these circumstances?
>>> Unless the country the translations have been made somehow PDs all produce
>>> by publicly funded universities (unlikely, TBH) then these texts will be
>>> subject to the ordinary rules as usual - no publication unless permissions
>>> are obtained.
>>> Now, I think it would be great to gain permission, and academic sources
>>> are often very kind + generous with these, but please be careful not to
>>> assume.
>>> Peter
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel<http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel>
>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
>> _______________________________________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> _______________________________________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/attachments/20121107/735cb13b/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the sword-devel mailing list