[sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question

Thu Jan 14 04:58:17 MST 2016

Thanks for the info. I like your work and think it should be a module. I’ve got a few higher priorities right now, so it’ll be a few months before I can even consider it.

DM

> On Jan 13, 2016, at 9:04 PM, Daniel Owens <dhowens at pmbx.net> wrote:
> 
> DM,
> 
> I sent a response but I used the wrong email address. Here is my initial response:
> 
> ***
> This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling attention to this, DM.
> 
> Now the source file has many corrections to the markup and data (https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/blob/master/abbott-smith.tei.xml). So I suggest a new module needs to be made. I am having trouble validating on my Mac, but must have to do with my setup. If someone can run xmllint and fix any validation problems, I would appreciate that.
> 
> I would also appreciate someone creating a new module. It has been a long time since I have been able to successfully compile and test a TEI module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of mysteries to me.
> 
> ***
> 
> To answer your question about the NT occurrences, we added this to make the source file more useful for things like generating vocabulary lists, etc. It can safely be removed using XSLT for the purpose of creating a SWORD module. In the Github repository you can see the scripts I created years ago to create a SWORD module. I suspect you could cook up something better off the top of your head, but feel free to have a look.
> 
> You can also safely add the zero filling to the Strong's numbers. But the source file is set up with the actual Greek lexeme as the entry @n because it is not Strongs. And that is how it should be. I wish the engine could deal properly with this. The Strong's numbers are a sort of legacy hack to support texts that are tagged using Strong's numbers. But now we have a better text that is not tagged with Strong's (the morphgnt-sblgnt module). Other texts should be deprecated and lexicon modules keyed to Greek lexemes.
> 
> It is one of my frustrations that the Sword engine has never adequately supported real Greek lexemes, as you find in the morphgnt-sblgnt module. The Abbott-Smith module has Strong's numbers only because that is the quickest hack to connecting words in legacy texts to real lexicon entries. But it should not always be so. We should be moving away from Strong's numbers and toward something more up-to-date. I believe Troy worked on this issue at one time (we sat down at SBL in 2011 to do this), but I have never seen it fully supported by the frontends.
> 
> Anyway, personal rant against Strong's numbers aside, I would love to see this module working in Sword, so if anyone can get it going, I would be super grateful. Perhaps an initial module needs to be created just with Strong's numbers and then an experimental module with the real Greek to provide something for developers to work with.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> On 1/14/16 8:42 AM, DM Smith wrote:
>> Based on your and Karl’s reply, I’m going to move it to the experimental part of the repository.
>> 
>> Best I can tell, it doesn’t work because the Strong’s number isn’t zero filled and I’ve not found any support for Strong’s numbers that aren’t padded.
>> 
>> To rebuild the module, we have to change the Strong’s numbers from G1 to G0001, G2 to G0002 and so forth. It was a nice idea to have the Strong’s numbers and the Greek words as separate entry. It’s not practical, especially since they are fully accented.
>> 
>> To create a module from the TEI source (Thank you Daniel for the work you’ve put into it. I see that you are a major contributor.) one needs to cut the <entry>…</entry> out of the file into it’s own file, then run that through tei2mod. There’s a bug in all of the TEI dictionary modules where the <entry …> is not in the module, but </entry> is. tei2mod should have kept both or dropped both.
>> 
>> If I were to make the module, I’d use xslt to transform the xml. The one thing that I think is missing in the entry is the word. It is represented in the <orth> element, but it is not the same. I also find it odd that there is a leading <note> with the number of occurrences in the NT. I’ve not looked at the pdf to see where that came from.
>> 
>> In Him,
>> 	DM
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 8:14 PM, Daniel Owens <dcowens76 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This module has never worked, as far as I can tell. I never was able to chase down why or convince Chris (who first put it up) to fix it. Thanks for calling attention to this, DM.
>>> 
>>> Now the source file has many corrections to the markup and data (https://github.com/translatable-exegetical-tools/Abbott-Smith/blob/master/abbott-smith.tei.xml). So I suggest a new module needs to be made.
>>> 
>>> However, it has been a long time since I have been able to successfully compile and test a TEI module. If someone has time and expertise to do this, I would be grateful because the TEI lexicon module creation cycle is a series of mysteries to me.
>>> 
>>> Daniel
>>> 
>>> On 1/14/16 7:53 AM, DM Smith wrote:
>>>> Well, I’ve created a new Windows 7 VM and installed the KJV and also AbbottSmith using The SWORD Project for Windows (BibleCS) Install Manager. I’m not able to get the module to work in BibleCS.
>>>> 
>>>> As far as I can tell it loads but doesn’t work in Xiphos. I show Strong’s in the KJV. Click on a number, any number and I get the same entry. As far as I can tell it is the last entry. Once I get there, clicking the up and down arrows on the dictionary will make the program crash. (I can deliberately, reliably repeat the crash.) The dropdown list contains >, G1, G1, G1, …., which is wrong. If I manually search for a number by prefixing it with a G, I’ll get the entry, indicating it is linked.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m running the Windows version that I just downloaded from the xiphos.org <http://xiphos.org> site.
>>>> 
>>>> In Him,
>>>> DM
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 13, 2016, at 6:29 PM, Peter Von Kaehne <refdoc at gmx.net <mailto:refdoc at gmx.net>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have just now installed it on Xiphos and set up as my strong dictionary for NT. It works perfectly well as far as I can tell
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2016 um 20:16 Uhr
>>>>>> Von: "DM Smith" <dmsmith at crosswire.org <mailto:dmsmith at crosswire.org>>
>>>>>> An: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org <mailto:sword-devel at crosswire.org>>
>>>>>> Betreff: [sword-devel] AbbottSmith module question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The AbbottSmith module has excellent content. I’m having some problems getting it to work in any SWORD or a JSword front-end (due to bugs in JSword).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’m wondering how it is supposed to work in a SWORD front-end.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It is keyed to Strong’s numbers. Each Strong’s number begins with the letter G and is followed by the number, but not padded. These are sorted as:
>>>>>> *blank key*
>>>>>> G1
>>>>>> G10
>>>>>> G100
>>>>>> G1000
>>>>>> G1001
>>>>>> ….
>>>>>> G2
>>>>>> G20
>>>>>> G200
>>>>>> ….
>>>>>> and so forth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> (The first two entries in the modules are bugs, probably in the module making utility. But that is another issue.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Each of these entries is linked to the entry for the corresponding Greek word. These are fully accented words. In the index they are sorted according to their upper case representation. They follow the entries beginning with G.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In my Windows VM, I’m not able to get the KJV to show up in either Xiphos or The SWORD Project for Windows. (Others have reported this problem. And I’m not interested in “going there.”) As such I can’t determine if I were to use AbbottSmith as a Greek Strong’s Dictionary how it would or if it’d work.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In Him,
>>>>>> DM Smith
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