[sword-devel] Parallel Display of Differing V11n Systems (was: Versifications and verse order)

Chris Burrell chris at burrell.me.uk
Thu Jul 4 08:24:25 MST 2013

I'm afraid, I'm not sure I follow. The screenshot looks ok, but then I
don't read Greek or Hebrew so I don't really know.

Are you saying Sword already has translation from 1 versification to
another transparently, by " the v11n translation facilities currently
designed in the engine"? From previous threads, I thought that was one
major thing that was still being worked on. So you already do have all the
mappings to convert from one versification to another?

I'm confused!


On 4 July 2013 16:02, Troy A. Griffitts <scribe at crosswire.org> wrote:

> Hi guys. The questions that need answers in this thread are logically
> complex and are one of the reasons we haven't finalized any additions to
> the core SWORD library to support this-- though I greatly appreciate the
> contributions made by Костя.
> Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display preset for "OT
> Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3, around veres 23:
> http://crosswire.org/study/**parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=**
> NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&**key=Dan.3.23#cv<http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&add=NASB&add=WLC&add=KJV&add=LXX&key=Dan.3.23#cv>
> How should this look?
> The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The Prayer of Azariah and the
> Song of the Three Jews in the LXX is inserted between what we traditionally
> think of as verses 23 and 24. This makes verse 24 in the KJV very different
> content than what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our current LXX displayed
> from the link above does not include Apocryphal content)-- verse 24 in the
> LXX being the first part of the Apocryphal content, thus verse 91 in the
> LXX picking back up where verse 24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal
> insertion), continues.
> The web interface above always displays in windows of 1 chapter. Thus the
> user has asked for Chapter 3 of Daniel, centered on verse 23.
> There are a few questions to answer.
> What if they had asked for verse 24?
> What content do we show?
> Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has chosen NASB as his primary
> Bible, and is interested in seeing the parallel verses to the NASB in the
> other texts. He is not interested in seeing apocryphal insertions. He
> primarily cares about the NASB and only glances at the content from the
> other modules when interested in seeing the parallel.
> This is how the web frontend, and all current SWORD based frontends
> *should* currently work with no code changes, with the v11n translation
> facilities currently designed in the engine. It uses the first module as
> the "master" and iterated its key and pulls the equivalent verses from the
> other modules. The current facility in the engine allows for:
> lxx->setKey(nasb->getKey())
> resulting in the LXX being positioned to the equivalent verse (e.g., v91
> from nasb v24)-- if translation tables (for example from Костя) were in
> place.
> But this use case, while likely the most dominant, is not the most
> scholarly. A scholar would likely wish to see a *superset* of all verses
> from all displayed parallel Bibles, inserting gaps where they should go in
> the other text which do not contain the verses.
> Not too hard to imagine, but what is the programmer-friendly API interface
> for this? Harder to imagine. You can't simply choose one of the modules to
> iterate.
> Possibly:
> ListKey superset;
> superset << kjv->getKey() << nasb->getKey() << lxx->getKey() <<
> wlc->getKey();
> then one could iterate the superset listkey.
> This would leave the work of figuring out where the gaps should go up to
> ListKey, or something in the translation system in VerseKey which backs
> ListKey.
> It's a complex problem, but we haven't even talked about the issue of
> reordered content. Sometime Romans 16:25-27a (obviously excluding the
> subscriptio) is located after Romans 14:23. This is an example of
> reordering. It doesn't give problems from our "chapter window display"
> because the reordering is across different chapters and you could still
> pick your poison from the 2 choices above for display logic, but what about
> display windows which allow more than a single chapter, like BibleDesktop?
> Now the question arises. If you've chosen to build a superset, where do the
> gaps go? You could reasonably add them to either place (after Romans 14:23
> in the modules which don't include the doxology here or after Romans 16:24
> for modules which don't include the doxology here). How do you decide? How
> should the program decide?
> Lot's of questions and input we all need to give and a working proof of
> concept for at least a single frontend before we commit to something for
> everyone to use in the engine.
> Obviously not a 1.7.x issue, but feel free to continue to give input.
> Troy
> On 07/04/2013 03:26 PM, David Haslam wrote:
>> And (for example) if you wish to query the whole of the JPS module using
>> book
>> names, it will not do to specify *Gen-Mal*.
>> You'd need to remember that in the Tanakh, the last book is *II
>> Chronicles*.
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.**
>> nabble.com/Versifications-and-**verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.**html<http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Versifications-and-verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.html>
>> Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
>> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel<http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel>
>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
> ______________________________**_________________
> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org
> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel<http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel>
> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/attachments/20130704/51cf5ad2/attachment.html>

More information about the sword-devel mailing list