[sword-devel] Alternate Versification question

Andrew Thule thulester at gmail.com
Mon Aug 13 11:20:52 MST 2012

That certainly explains the apparent disorder - thanks for that.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Chris Little <chrislit at crosswire.org> wrote:
> On 08/12/2012 11:23 PM, Andrew Thule wrote:
>> I was making changes to the LXX2012 version - but then quit.  I
>> decided to instead work on getting out a version with original text.
>> I've created a versification system based upon an 1857 edition of
>> Brenton's book (and consulted 2 other versions, including a 1900
>> edition).  The versification doesn't match the order your text was in,
>> but don't worry - it seems to take the OSIS and it it in order
>> correctly - however it is ordered in the OSIS based upon the
>> versification. (I tried  this on another module).  I've attached a
>> copy of the versification.
>> I'm going to continue working on the Brenton version so as to get out
>> a version with unmodified text.  Then I'll get back to the 2012
>> version later and update the English.  I found found printing errors
>> in two of the book I was consulting based upon your text where verses
>> would simply be followed by text from different chapters.  Your
>> version of the text seemed 'mostly' correct.  I was able to resolve
>> these problems (mostly) but not all.  For example:
>> Your Sirach 30 has 25 verses - the 1857 printed version has 31
>> Your Sirach 31 has 31 verses - the 1857 printed version has 26 (so
>> does the 1900)
>> Your Sirach 32 has 24 verses - the 1857 printed version has 20
>> Your Sirach 33 has 31 verses - the 1857 printed version has 12
>> Your Sirach 34 has 26 verses - the 1857 printed version has 31
>> Your Sirach 35 has 20 verses - the 1857 printed version has 24
>> I'm convinced the 1857 printed version has typesetting errors because
>> this is an instance when the verse numbers jumped around and seemed to
>> pull verses from other chapters (for example I think some of the
>> verses missing from Sirach 33 in the 1857 printed version show up
>> elsewhere.  I believe all of there verses are there, but the printed
>> version simply seems to mixed them in elsewhere.  I've not been able
>> to find out of the Greek LXX comes in different flavours these
>> editions could have been made from.
>> However your 1 Kings 9 missed a bunch of verses (numbering from 1Kings
>> 9:1-14, 26-28) and comparing it to the printed text, I gave your
>> version an empty [9:15] and relabelled [9:26-28] to [9:16-18] and that
>> resolved the problem and both texts aligned perfectly.
>> Even with this change, there's something going on funny about
>> Sir.31-38 between different printed versions of the text and your
>> text. Even the 1900 version didn't agree with your text or the 1857
>> version (though it mostly followed the 1857 version nearly everywhere
>> else.  Ultimately, I couldn't resolve those issues.  All of the text
>> is there just in wrong chapters.  For the versification, I went with
>> your version of the text.. because I figured it would make it easiest
>> to produce a sword module if I didn't have figure out from the Greek
>> where the verses were actually suppose to be, and your text 'seemed'
>> correct to me.  The verses placement seemed to read the most correct.
> Per the publisher's note at the second Sirach 30:16 of Brenton in my printed
> edition:
> "The Greek text of Ecclesiasticus 30:24-36:16 is in great disorder in
> virtually every Greek ms. Scholars are convinced by old translations
> (Arabic, Syriac, and Old Latin), however, that the order of modern English
> editions (e.g. NRSV) is correct. Brenton's versification reflects the
> conflict between the Greek text and the order observed in these other
> translations."
> --Chris
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