[sword-devel] [jsword-devel] New data, new CrossWire project, HELP WANTED
dhowens at pmbx.net
Wed Apr 28 04:48:23 MST 2010
Sorry, TEI is an XML schema that SWORD uses for lexicons. I expect it
will be fairly straightforward to convert from OSIS to TEI, but I will
need some time first. I have two classes to teach and a paper to
complete before then. :)
I don't think we need extra permission. I can ask David to clarify the
copyright status of his corrections, but typically OpenScriptures data
is released under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license
(check out the footer of (http://openscriptures.org/). But I think
(based on my amateur understanding) that because Strongs is public
domain, it can't be copyrighted unless you create new content
(corrections wouldn't count). But either way, the data is available for
use, and we can double-check with David in time.
I am working with David on the morphhb, which is currently a SWORD
module. The module identifyer is OSMHB or Open Scriptures Morphological
Hebrew Bible. Currently the text is all public domain material, but once
we start adding morphology the morphology will be Creative Commons
Attribution-Share Alike. Again, either way it will be licensed in a way
fitting for STEP.
I guess that is a long way of saying, no, no extra permission is needed
for either of these.
On 4/28/2010 4:33 AM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
> Great, Daniel!
> (To be honest I don't know your acronyms, but I guess you know what
> you're doing).
> Do we need extra permission for this?
> The work done by the guys at openscriptures <
> http://github.com/openscriptures> is based on my work, and I certainly
> give permission,
> but they didn't reply to my email asking if they were offering it to PD.
> They also have another very interesting project called "morphhb"
> which appears to be the Leningrad OT tagged with Strongs, in Unicode
> with many corrections.
> - ie all the PD stuff, but with extra corrections and all in tidy XML.
> I think David Troidl <DavidTroidl at aol.com> is the contact but, as I
> said, he declined to reply to me.
> Perhaps I didn't phrase the question properly. Sounds like a job for
> David Haslam's expertise.
> David IB
> On 23 April 2010 20:33, Daniel Owens <dhowens at pmbx.net> wrote:
> I may be able to work at it in a few weeks. It will need to be
> transformed into TEI for SWORD. I am not so strong on XSLT, so if
> anyone with better skills there would take this on it would go more
>> On 4/23/2010 2:03 PM, David Instone-Brewer wrote:
>> Sword have a good Hebrew lexicon based on Strongs (corrected
>> by me), but I don't know where such things are stored.
>> The guys at openscriptures <
>> http://github.com/openscriptures> have added several more
>> corrections to my corrections, and produced a tidy XML package,
>> downloadable at
>> Could this be converted into a replacement Sword module by
>> David IB
>> At 19:45 23/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote:
>> Hi Daniel
>> I think to start with we really need a Strong-tagged
>> hebrew sword module and if possible with the morphology
>> in it. That would help with the classic interlinears and
>> in particular in their accuracy. Perhaps that already
>> exists, but I haven't been able to find it.
>> And then as you say, a good Hebrew lexicon would be a
>> great addition. Hopefully David IB will be able to
>> comment on the best way forward here. We'll need both at
>> some point, so either would be good!
>> On 22 April 2010 00:07, Chris Burrell
>> <chris at burrell.me.uk <mailto:chris at burrell.me.uk> <
>> mailto:chris at burrell.me.uk>> wrote:
>> Hi Daniel
>> I'm copying David IB from Tyndale House who is part of
>> House and leading the data side of the project.
>> A couple of emails have circulated on this previously
>> on our
>> blogs, which I've tried to capture (in part) on
>> I'm sure David IB will have more to input on this...
>> I've copied
>> his original email below
>> THis is the best lookup lexicon to use for Hebrew
>> interlinear -
>> it is tagged to Strongs, includes the pointed Hebrew
>> and has an
>> abbreviated BDB entry. And the version downloadable from
>> http://github.com/openscriptures has even more
>> corrections than
>> mine. For all I know, it might finally be letter
>> perfect! THis
>> version is also packaged in nice XML which can easily be
>> converted to any other DB format.
>> The equivalent lexicon at Crosswire for Greek is, I
>> think, in a
>> much better state, and didn't need all the work the
>> Hebrew did.
>> The version of the tagged OT text at
>> http://github.com/openscriptures is also in very good
>> (prob better than the one at Crosswire). It appears to
>> contain PD data - ie it doesn't include the more complete
>> morphology data which is copyrighted.
>> David IB
>> On 21 April 2010 23:22, Daniel Owens <dhowens at pmbx.net
>> <mailto:dhowens at pmbx.net>
>> < mailto:dhowens at pmbx.net>> wrote:
>> I am not qualified to contribute code (though I
>> lurk on
>> sword-devel because of my module-creating
>> disposition), but I
>> am involved in producing content for the very
>> purpose you
>> mention. By the way, if you are at Tyndale House
>> now, you may
>> know Daniel Block. He is my PhD mentor at Wheaton
>> There are two content areas with which I am
>> involved and
>> would be happy to collaborate on. One is Greek and
>> lexica. Currently at www.textonline.org
>> < http://www.textonline.org <http://www.textonline.org/>>
>> we are involved in
>> collaboratively producing a modern replacement for
>> We're starting with a Strongs base but hope to
>> provide a
>> basic and up-to-date modern equivalent to Holladay
>> for Hebrew
>> or Newman for Greek, except that they will be
>> released under
>> a creative commons license. The challenge is
>> finding people
>> to contribute quality entries with little or no
>> of accolades in the guild of biblical studies (and
>> no money!). The other project is a collaboratively
>> morphologically tagged Hebrew text (see
>> www.OpenScriptures.org <http://www.OpenScriptures.org> <
>> <http://www.openscriptures.org/>>). For
>> that we are looking at Django and Pinax as the
>> for collaborating on putting together the data.
>> For me, the
>> purpose of this is to fill a void of content for
>> SWORD in
>> order to serve the global church.
>> I notice that full-text lexicons are part of the
>> second phase
>> of your plan. Is there any way we can begin to
>> collaborate on
>> that? I am open to your suggestions.
>> On 4/21/2010 2:07 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:
>> *What is Tyndale STEP?*
>> Tyndale STEP is an offline and online Java web
>> application which aims to make ancient texts
>> and maps as
>> well as timeline data, genealogies, ...
>> accessible to
>> everyone, scholar and non-scholar alike, so
>> that the
>> Bible is illuminated by its full ancient
>> context. [see
>> roadmap below]. Tyndale House will also
>> distribute the
>> online version to pastors in the third world,
>> who often
>> can’t afford commercial Bible software.
>> A wiki page has been set up here:
>> http://crosswire.org/wiki/Frontends:TyndaleStep which has
>> a lot more information!
>> *Who are we looking for?*
>> We need lots of help!
>> • *Java developers*: this code base is mainly
>> in Java so
>> we can do with all the help we can get!
>> • *User Interface designers*: there is
>> currently a sketch
>> of the user interface, created more to prove a
>> point. We
>> need proper guidance to make the software as user
>> friendly and rich as possible
>> • *Data harvesters*: Tyndale House could do
>> with a few
>> extra pairs of hands to helpcollate the data
>> and make it
>> available to the wider CrossWire community
>> *How do I start?*
>> • Get in touch!
>> • Read through the wiki page:
>> • Build the code from:
>> • Check out our feature/bug repository:
>> • Have a look at the proof of concept sketches at
>> < http://crosswire.org:8080/%7Echrisburrell/> <
>> http://crosswire.org:8080/%7Echrisburrell/> (including
>> timelines and interlinears on strong-tagged
>> • Peruse the blogs mentioned on the wiki to
>> get a feel
>> for the data and programming
>> As you can see, there’s plenty to do!
>> *What does the roadmap look like?*
>> */1st phase: build a multi-platform structure for
>> standard Bible-study tools:/*
>> • Bible texts, including original languages,
>> and interlinears
>> • Language aids, including lookup-dictionaries
>> concordance searches
>> • History tools, including an expandable
>> timeline with
>> scripture links
>> • Dictionary articles, culled from various
>> sources and edited
>> */2nd phase: add detailed geographic, historic &
>> linguistic data/*
>> • Gazetteer of all named places, with short
>> articles and
>> links to pictures
>> • Co-ordinates of identifiable places to
>> • Map overlays of high-ref 1:20,000 maps of
>> • Flexible timelines which can be altered at
>> key points
>> of uncertainty
>> • Full-text lexicons linked to the lookup
>> dictionaries in
>> tagged texts
>> */3rd phase: add translation aids and links to
>> • different possible translations for words
>> and passages
>> • differences in manuscripts, with evidence
>> for each variant
>> • expositions in modern and older
>> commentaries, articles
>> and books
>> */4th phase: adds link to extra-biblical
>> literature with
>> • search other ancient literature for similar
>> passages in
>> a similar context
>> • look up Greek and Hebrew words in other
>> ancient literature
>> • view ancient texts with translations where
>> These tools will put centuries of research
>> into the hands
>> of non-scholars. When the information is laid
>> open like
>> this, it is easy to see that the Bible is well
>> and translated, reflecting historical events
>> in real
>> places, and dealing with issues current in the
>> and modern work alike.
>> If you have any more questions or want to get
>> please do let me know!
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