[sword-devel] lemma html markup lack, and dictionary sorting
dhowens at pmbx.net
Thu Mar 19 18:21:22 MST 2009
Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> I had a request this morning to add what could be a very nice feature in
> Xiphos: When hovering or clicking on a lemma, look it up in my
> dictionary module InvStrongsRealGreek. This module is the conversion of
> my StrongsRealGreek module to inverted keying, that is, keyed by word
> instead of by Strong's ref.
The idea of hovering on a lemma to look up a word is exactly the kind of
functionality I would love to see (similar to BibleTime's mag window but
perhaps showing in the dictionary window). Another way to access it
could be double-clicking on a word or right-clicking and choosing "Look
up '<word>'" such as BPBible does. How is not so important as long as
access is quick and obvious.
I am working on a project that does just what you did with Strong's but
will work toward updating Strong's with modern scholarship behind it.
I'll announce the project in a week or so, but I mention it to give some
> In principle, this is a nifty idea, and seems very obvious in hindsight.
> I've implemented a 1st pass of the feature -- it was trivial -- but I
> have 2 problems.
>  When looking up an ordinary Strong's ref, the URL that gets dumped
> into the markup by the engine is of this form:
> Note the presence of "type=Greek". The similar URL for a lemma is:
> Note "type=" with empty content. There is no indication of the language
> to be looked up.
> Now, as it happens, right now we have no Hebrew modules with
> lemmatization, so for the time being I've implemented the feature
> aggressively so as to pick InvStrongsRealGreek alone, based purely on
> noticing the lack of a language type, as the discriminant between a
> normal Strong's numeric lookup and a lemma lookup. This will need some
> kind of enhancement in the future so as to make it possible to determine
> what dictionary should be consulted, if we ever gain Hebrew with lemmas.
> (I have InvStrongsRealHebrew, too.)
I want to know if the Westminster Morphology module will include lemma
when it is completed.
>  The bigger problem is that the lookup is quite poor, because (it
> appears to me, and I'm wide open to re-education on this) the nature of
> the key sort in InvStrongsRealGreek is badly warped by, it seems, the
> failure of diacriticals to sort well. So in 1Tim 3:2, when looking up
> references on "ανεπιλημπτον", the normal Strong's number reference
> (above) works fine, and I get G423 as expected. But when I then try to
> get the lemma lookup, the dictionary reference into the inverted module
> misses the mark, returning "ανεξικακος", which is actually G420.
> This is a comparatively mild example -- at least the first few
> characters match well. But other match failures are much worse.
> Looking at "λογος", G3056, the lookup of exactly that word coughs up
> "Κως", G2972. This is at best distracting and at worst outright
This is the same result that I have been getting with the same sort of
> Is there something I should have done differently when generating
> InvStrongsRealGreek so as to get better keying, or is there a more
> fundamental problem in how to get the correct sort in such keys?
I think the issue is with the key structure and the use of the index of
entries. Stripping accents from the key in the module might be a
solution in the short-term, but at some point I think the engine needs
to support correct indexing (read: publication order) of entries with
any unicode character.
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