[sword-devel] Jonah 1.17 / 2.1

DM Smith dmsmith555 at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 22 21:15:02 MST 2006


This is a well known limitation of Sword. At this time it is limited to 
the KJV versification. We've discussed this so much here that we know 
call it v10n. And solving it is planned for a future release. Hopefully 

As you noted there are at least two problems. One is the ability to 
store and address each verse in its own v10n reference system.  The 
other is the ability to map between one scheme and another.

Another limitation of Sword is that regardless of the order of numbering 
of verses in the module, the verses will come out in KJV canonical 
order. That is if you put verse 10 at the beginning of the chapter and 
then build a module, it will come out as the 10th verse. In fact you 
should be able to shuffle all the verses and feed it to the module 
builder and it will come out in canonical order.

In my opinion, the KJV is neither right or wrong. I'm not a historian, 
but if I remember correctly, there have been more years without any kind 
of verse system than with one.

I have a book with pictures of early Christian manuscripts and it is 
interesting that in some the Greek is in all caps without accents. Also 
there is no punctuation and no separation between words. This brings up 
some interesting points of exegesis. For example, some will end John 1.3 
as a sentence, reading "...without him nothing was made that has been 
made. In him was life...." others will end it before the end of John 1.2 
reading "... without him nothing was made. That which was made was life 
in him...." Interestingly, earlier Nestle/Aland Greek (e.g. 21st 
edition) texts have the former, the recent editions (e.g. 26th) have the 

To me the value of a verse system is the ability to locate and to 
communicate. Since different countries have different traditions, this 
means that we do need to move beyond the KJV v10n.

I recommend that you create a faithful osis document and if need be dumb 
it down (with xslt) to what Sword's osis2mod can accept. Then when it 
can handle other v10n systems then you won't need to re-code it.

For example, append Jonah 2:11 to 2:10 and put a verse number before 
verse 2:11. You can also attach a note to the verse explaining that 
verse 11 should stand alone, but for now is attached to 10. The only 
shortcomings are that it is not possible to lookup verse 2:11, the verse 
number is not under the program's control, verse 1.17 can be searched 
but will return an empty verse and there is no way to do a parallel. 
(well maybe there are a few other problem...)

Hope this helps,

Raphaël Pinson wrote:
> Hello,
> I have begun to convert David Martin and Ostervald French versions of the 
> Bible to OSIS, so as to create Sword modules with them.
> Doing that, I came across some issues. One of them is with Jonah 1.17 / 2.1.
> When building the Sword module for Jonah (from the Ostervald 1996 version), I 
> got a warning from osis2mod, saying it was moving Jonah 2.11 back to 2.10. So 
> I checked these verses, and indeed there is no such verse as Jonah 2.11 in 
> KJV. It is numbered 2.10 instead. This is due to the fact that in KJV, there 
> is a 1.17 verse, that is numbered 2.1 in Ostervald.
> In both the printed French Bibles I have here (NBS - Revision of the LSG, a 
> trustable translation based directly on the Hebrew and Greek texts - and TOB 
> - a modern ecumenical translation also based on original texts), I have a 
> 2.11 verse and thus no 1.17.
> Now I was wondering about that, cause of course if I try to make a parallel 
> between several versions in BibleTime, they don't match on these verses... so 
> I began to search deeper... going back to the source...
> Both WLC and my personal Hebrew TNK (a German version from the beginning of 
> the century) have 2.11, and no 1.17. Could the KJV be wrong on this?
> How is it possible to keep the numbering scheme with 2.11 verse and no 1.17 in 
> Sword modules, given that osis2mod automatically removes 2.11?
> <><
> Raphaël

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