[sword-devel] R/w CVS

David Overcash sword-devel@crosswire.org
Sun, 09 Jun 2002 20:47:30 -0500


-Dave Overcash

> > Hm. Could I ask which to faith / religion you belong? It is certainly
> > mainstream christianity.
> I was just an ordinary Baptist. One of false preachers in a Baptist church
> told me that preachers never make mistakes in preaching... and has maid an
> error. I turned 180 degrees and felt onto the floor of the church to pray
> praise God that from that moment I am free and I know that the faith is
> on Bible, not on statement of sinners (including all people which proclaim
> church doctrines), and that from that moment I have no any reasons to be
> a bad Christian like other Christians I know, and being from now free may
> will become a man of great spirituality. That preacher asked me what
> with me (in Russian this also can be translated: what are you?), and I
> responded, I am Luther. (The preacher has thought that I mean that I
> think that I am Martin Luther and so am mad :-) )
> That second I also decided to find Bible Original and read it by any
> > I just exchanged a few mails with my Hebrew teacher. He says that even
> > ultraorthodox Bible fundamentalists accept the masoretic vowel system,
> > has been transmitted to us in a very good and trustworthy way, though
> > could argue if the vowels are inspired or not. Is this your own teaching
> > can you suggest books / people to me that I can refer to in order to
> > understand your teaching better?
> I mean only that vowels are not inspired. I haven't meant that these are
> transmitted incorrectly. I accept the vowel system in the sense that it is
> correct description of a people's language, I reject only the statement
> these limit the sense of God's Word (as explicitly state Judaists,
> and Russian Orthodoxes and also these Protestants who are in fact
> i.e. follow traditions). I also state that keeping translating Bible only
> accordingly masoretic vowels is from devil.
> It is a teaching of Holy Spirit! About people which readied Bible without
> vowels, I know for sure only about Watchman Nee (hopefully I wrote his
> correctly), a native China Christian preacher which is already in the
> world. (Well, this does not imply that I am agree with him in anything.) I
> cannot remember any book names.
> > > I think I shouldn't be very careful because God has said me "I will
> > > separate". Because of this prophecy it seems that someday the projects
> > > be splitten. (I don't know whether it may happen because of religios
> > > reasons or just because of some technical ones.)
> >
> > This really made me wonder. You know, I and many other people here want
> > live according to the Bible (you cannot argue about vowels in the NT).
> > the Bible says:
> BTW about NT. Even preserving all the vowels it can be translated
> and we get such things as a senseful text about stars in cosmos...
> >   Gal 5:19.20 "Now the works of the flesh are clear, which are these:
> > divisions, false teachings"
> >   I Cor 1:10 "Now I make request to you, my brothers, in the name of our
> > Jesus Christ, that you will all say the same thing, and that there may
be no
> > divisions among you, so that you may be in complete agreement, in the
> > mind and in the same opinion."
> Oh, also a without-vowels citation from OT, "It is blessed by the Word of
> Jehovah, speaking: in My war I will separate" = "It is blessed by the word
> Jehovah, speaking in My war I will separate" = "It was happened that
> the Word of Jehovah in My war I will separate" = "It was happened that I
> saw by the Word of Jehovah, speaking, in my War I will separate" (It is
> Leviticus 10:3). There are also several other translations. It is that
> fragment from here I got the prophecy about the separation. I will not
> why I decided that this is about my ministry.
> What is the source of the supposed forking? Martin, stop here and guess
> answer before reading further. In this I am only a prophet which predicted
> separation in a future. *You* are the man accomplished the prophecy. Yes,
> can deny the splitting but only by one way, i.e. by stopping my work.
> the analogy with Luther which was excommunicated because of writing
> information as I am doing now and rejected to deny, but he haven't
> himself.
> This separation in any case would happen at some time. By my letter I only
> caused it to happen faster, not to happen instead by not to happen by.
> Happening later, I think it may be even worse, as the projects grow and
> things may be made separated.
> So, what I do? I tell citations from Bible and these now began to cause
> separations.
> I want that all Christian in the same mind would read Hebrew Bible without
> vowels and believe!
> > That does not mean that we must always agree on every thing. But seeking
> > divisions is very problematic in my opinion, and certainly a work of the
> > flesh rather than the spirit.
> Seeking... this word has several senses with subtle differences. Firstly,
> seek divisions in the sense that I _look_ around to find how the prophecy
> be accomplished. Whether I try to _cause_ divisions? Hopefully, I only
> the Word knowing that it will cause these. If not, it is most probably a
> > Given that you are a priori _aiming_ at division, plus trying to spread
> > teaching, I am sorry to tell you that your contributions to BibleTime
are NOT
> Good that now you are more concrete. Hopefully, I aim divisions only in
that sense as somebody may aim to burst an airplane with people because of a
danger virus in that plane without the aim to kill people. I only reject the
vowels in people's Bible. But if I cannot erase the vowels from Bibles
(vowels are a virus), I may need to get rid from being under control of that
people, what causes these to throw me away (a separation).
> You haven't *proove* that the concept is false!
> P.S. I would find also some citations from (with-vowles) Bible commiting
that sometimes true senders of God destroy something and cause separations,
but this would be just a spend of time. (I think you just can remember these
citations yourself.)
> --
> Victor Porton (porton@narod.ru)