[sword-devel] Paul's epistles

Leon Brooks sword-devel@crosswire.org
Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:25:11 +0800

On Monday 14 January 2002 21:02, chris wrote:
> On Monday 14 January 2002 06:49, you wrote:
>> On Sunday 13 January 2002 10:00, chris wrote:
>>>>> Yes, It would seem even jes-s supposedly did.

>> Odd. Hyphenating jes-s after the reverent fashion of a Messianic Jew but
>> apparently not convinced that Messiah is Messiah, as foretold. Please
>> explain?

> I am converting to become a Jew and it is very common for Jews not to spell
> out the names of pagan gods. And NO I do not believe that jes-s is the
> messiah.

Hmm... I guess you'd onkly be interested in OT modules then. I've always 
wondered, who does someone in your situation identify as the beaten, bruised, 
plain-looking and murdered but peaceful servant/saviour of Isaiah 53 
(referred to in 1Peter 2:24, quoted here from the KJV):

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 
For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry 
ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is 
no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a 
man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces 
from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our 
griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of 
God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised 
for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his 
stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned 
every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us 
all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he 
is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is 
dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from 
judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the 
land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And 
he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he 
had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the 
LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul 
an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and 
the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the 
travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my 
righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore 
will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil 
with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was 
numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made 
intercession for the transgressors. 

>>> As this is the sword-devel list I do not wish to get into a argument
>>> over this. I was merely pointing out some well known facts.

>> In other words, hit-and-run point-making? If they're so well known as
>> facts, why has debate ensued?

> Sorry, I thought that pilate being quite ruthless and not having that
> particular custom was well known.

Ruthless, yes, but not totally, and politically he did have some clues. 
Washing his hands of Jesus was a believable attempt at compromise, pacifying 
one band the irate locals without a potentially offensive (to other locals) 
direct act.

Is it possible that this information is only ``well-known'' with certain 
Judaic circles?

It has the ring of one of those assumed-truth arguments, the ``but of 
course'' or ``as everyone knows'' throwaway. I'd check, if I were you.

Cheers; Leon