[osis-core] RE: What is happening
Todd Tillinghast
todd at contentframeworks.com
Wed Oct 6 05:36:54 MST 2004
Patrick and Kees,
The thing that makes this somewhat more interesting is that these are
translations of translations and there seems to be an effort to make a
distinction that these are different works.
Ideally we could use the same Bible book name and leave it to the work
to identify its origin. I think if both the Septuagint and the
non-Septuagint based translations have the same sets of chapters and
verses and covering the same logical text then we can just use the same
Bible book names. We may need to use a different reference system.
Can anyone speak to the sameness of these books to their non-Septuagint
counterparts?
The trick would be if you had both a translation based on the Septuagint
and on non-Septuagint source texts in the same Bible. I think this is
the case the Fred is facing.
Kees, can you explain what the motivation was for the UBS to identify
additional UBS Bible book names for translations based on the Septuagint
rather than just using already existing names? Was it to meet a need
based on the lack of software to handle different reference systems or
is a more principled reason?
Todd
> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces at crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces at crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 4:39 AM
> To: kdeblois at biblesocieties.org; osis-core at crosswire.org
> Cc: 'David Landin'; 'Todd Tillinghast';
osis-core at bibletechnologieswg.org;
> 'Emma Canales'; 'Fred Mellings'
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] RE: What is happening
>
> Kees,
>
> Thanks for asking Fred for the overview and thanks to Fred for
providing
> it!
>
> I see what may be part of the problem, you want to make references to
> different versions by book name? Ah, ok, that makes sense. So that you
> can distinguish a reference to Judges(Vaticanus) from
Judges(otherwise)?
> And you want it to be a standard set of names?
>
> BTW, you say: "The Septuagint contains two versions of Daniel. That
> goes for Susanna and Bel and the Dragon too."
>
> Does that mean we need three names for Daniel? (the standard one plus
> two for the different versions in the Septuagint?)
>
> Questions:
>
> Does everyone agree that for reference purposes, we need standard
names
> to refer to the 8 books that Fred has listed?
>
> I think of these as versions, with the exception of Odae, which we
would
> handle in the header for an OSIS encoded document, but I think he
wants
> to be able to construct references to particular versions of books.
> Normally I would say handle that in the OSIS header but these are
going
> to be common across all commentaries, etc.
>
> Comments/suggestions?
>
> Hope everyone is having a great day!
>
> Patrick
>
> >
> > You have 84 books already listed The 66 standard books (not listed
here)
> > and 18 Apocrypha books (listed below) which leaves 8 books you don't
> cover
> >
> > Paratext position Three letter code OSIS name
> > 68 Tob
Tob
> > 69 Jdt
Jdt
> > 70 Esg
> AddEsth
> > 71 Wis
Wis
> > 72 Sir
Sir
> > 73 Bar
Bar
> > 74 Lje
EpJer
> > 75 S3Y
PrAzar
> > 76 Sus
Sus
> > 77 Bel
Bel
> > 78 1Ma
1Macc
> > 79 2Ma
2Macc
> > 80 3Ma
3Macc
> > 81 4Ma
4Macc
> > 82 1Es
1Esd
> > 83 2Es
2Esd
> > 84 Man
PrMan
> > 85 Ps2
PssSol
> >
> > Your software does not process any number higher than the above
> >
> > The 8 books not covered in the OSIS schema are:-
> >
> > Paratext position Three letter code Information from Paratext
> > Chapters
> > 86
> > ODA Odae 14
> > 87 PSS Psalms of
> > Solomon 18
> > 88 JSA Joshua A
> > 24
> > 89 JDB Judges
> > B 21
> > 90 TBS Tobit S
> > 14
> > 91 SST Susannah
> > Th 1
> > 92 DNT Daniel
> > Th 12
> > 93 BLT Bel and the
> > Dragon 1
> >
> > Note: Daniel Th. is the Daniel version by Theodotion which is a
revision
> > of the Septuagint. The Septuagint contains two versions of Daniel.
That
> > goes for Susanna and Bel and the Dragon too.
> >
> > For Joshua there are the "classic" Joshua and part of the book of
Joshua
> > from the Codex Alexandrinus which has been added in Rahlfs' version
of
> > the Septuagint. This latter version only contains of part of chapter
15.
> >
> > For Judges there are two versions as well, which are both complete.
The
> > "extra" book of Judges found in Rahlfs is the one from the Codex
> Vaticanus.
> >
> > Odae is from the Septuagint as well. These are songs but they are
> > different from the Psalms of Solomon. The book Odae actually is a
> > collection of songs from both the Old and New Testaments, like the
song
> > of Moses (Exodus 15), Hannah (1 Samuel 2), Mary (Luke 1), etc.
> >
> > Tobit S. is an additional version of Tobit from the Codex
Sinaiticus.
> >
> >
> > Regarding Chapters and verses these are covered in the .vrs files
which
> > you already have.
> > The OSIS team need to talk with someone in UBS to get this sorted
> > because it will keep cropping up because these books exist even
though
> > OSIS does not recognise them
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Todd Tillinghast <mailto:todd at contentframeworks.com>
> > To: 'Fred Mellings' <mailto:fredmellings at tiscali.co.uk>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 5:31 PM
> > Subject: RE: What is happening
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not sure which 6 you are talking about exactly but I think
> > there is enough confusion that the UBS will have to make a
statement
> > about at least a couple.
> >
> >
> >
> > Can you list the six UBS Bible book names that seem unclear to
you
> > along with how many chapters (and what their numbers are if they
> > don?t start with ?1?) and how many verses if they only have one
> > chapter?
> >
> >
> >
> > I will offer my opinion on the ones that seem clear.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Fred Mellings [mailto:fredmellings at tiscali.co.uk]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 3:03 AM
> > To: Todd Tillinghast
> > Subject: Re: What is happening
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd,
> >
> > Isn't the description (from the Paratext help) that someone sent
> enough?
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Todd Tillinghast <mailto:todd at contentframeworks.com>
> >
> > To: 'Fred Mellings' <mailto:fredmellings at tiscali.co.uk>
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 9:09 AM
> >
> > Subject: RE: What is happening
> >
> >
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am not sure we can really make a reliable assessment
regarding
> > the identification of the 6 extra books without the UBS
clearly
> > stating what they mean for the files to be.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osis-core mailing list
> > osis-core at bibletechnologieswg.org
> > http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>
>
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>
>
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