Details

    • Type: Bug Bug
    • Status: Open (View Workflow)
    • Priority: Minor Minor
    • Resolution: Unresolved
    • Component/s: None
    • Labels:
      None
    • Environment:

      EMTV, And Bible, Bible Desktop

      Description

      The new updated osis EMTV module uses OSISqToTick=false to hide quotes for Jesus words. When used In And Bible and Bible Desktop OSISqToTick=false does not work.

        Activity

        Hide
        DM Smith added a comment -

        OSISqToTick=false does not hide quote marks, rather it was meant to prevent their generation. It was invented for the KJV module, which has no quotation marks at all, to allow for the Words of Christ (WoC) to be marked but not generate quotation marks. OSIS at that time did not have constructs to specify what quotation marks should be used. It does now. The KJV module has been rewritten to not require OSISqToTick=false. As a result, CrossWire has deprecated its use. Within the SWORD engine, it uses this flag when the marker attribute on the <q> element is not present. You are correct that JSword does not handle it, but it really is a module problem and should be corrected there.

        Suppose you have <q>This is a quote.</q>, then w/o the flag (or it set to true) this would generate, "This is a quote." With the flag set to false it would be, This is a quote.

        Please note, the OSISqToTick was never meant to as a mechanism to allow for marking the WoC while having quotation marks directly in the text.

        The OSIS of Matt 1:23 is (I've deleted the note):
        "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which is translated, "GOD WITH US."

        This is has the quotation marks directly in the text and is not subject to OSISqToTick.

        So to get this to work you'd need:
        <q>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,</q> which is translated, <q>GOD WITH US.</q>

        As it turns out, OSISqToTick is entirely unnecessary, as SWORD and JSword use the value of marker as it's quotation mark. So this would be better as:
        <q marker="">BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,</q> which is translated, <q marker="">GOD WITH US.</q>

        If the intention were to have quotation marks here then the following would be better:
        <q marker='"'>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,</q> which is translated, <q marker='"'>GOD WITH US.</q>

        However, the OSIS spec allows the <q> element to be milestoned. The real value is that it allows for opening and closing quotation marks to be different.

        To use the milestoned version, and suppress quotation marks, it would look like:
        <q marker="" sID="qXXX"/>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,<q marker="" eID="qXXX"/> which is translated, <q marker="" sID="qYYY"/>GOD WITH US.<q marker="" eID="qYYY"/>

        Note, if the intention was to really include quotation marks, then marker would have a value. In this case, one can either use the same straight marks for both or better use right and let curly quotes as in:
        <q marker="“" sID="qXXX"/>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,<q marker="”" eID="qXXX"/> which is translated, <q marker="“" sID="qYYY"/>GOD WITH US.<q marker="”" eID="qYYY"/>

        Regarding the WoC, the problem is doubled. It uses the quote element to mark the WoC and also includes the quotes directly in the text. The module has for Matt 5:3:
        <q marker="" who="Jesus"><q sID="gen106"/>"Blessed <hi type="italic">are</hi> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.<q eID="gen106"/></q>

        This is not how it is marked up in the input to osis2mod, but rather a result of how osis2mod transforms it. It is likely that the input OSIS had:
        <q who="Jesus">"Blessed <hi type="italic">are</hi> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

        This has 3 problems:
        1) The quotation mark is directly in the text. It should be represented the <q> element.
        2) marker is not used to indicate the quotation mark.
        3) <hi> is used to mark that the words are not from the original.

        It'd be better for it to be marked:
        <q who="Jesus" marker="">Blessed <transChange type="added">are</transChange> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

        If the intention were straight quotation marks, then the following would have been better:
        <q who="Jesus" marker='"'>Blessed <transChange type="added">are</transChange> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

        I'll be moving this in Jira to be under MOD and changing the title to "EMTV quote problem".

        Show
        DM Smith added a comment - OSISqToTick=false does not hide quote marks, rather it was meant to prevent their generation. It was invented for the KJV module, which has no quotation marks at all, to allow for the Words of Christ (WoC) to be marked but not generate quotation marks. OSIS at that time did not have constructs to specify what quotation marks should be used. It does now. The KJV module has been rewritten to not require OSISqToTick=false. As a result, CrossWire has deprecated its use. Within the SWORD engine, it uses this flag when the marker attribute on the <q> element is not present. You are correct that JSword does not handle it, but it really is a module problem and should be corrected there. Suppose you have <q>This is a quote.</q>, then w/o the flag (or it set to true) this would generate, "This is a quote." With the flag set to false it would be, This is a quote. Please note, the OSISqToTick was never meant to as a mechanism to allow for marking the WoC while having quotation marks directly in the text. The OSIS of Matt 1:23 is (I've deleted the note): "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which is translated, "GOD WITH US." This is has the quotation marks directly in the text and is not subject to OSISqToTick. So to get this to work you'd need: <q>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,</q> which is translated, <q>GOD WITH US.</q> As it turns out, OSISqToTick is entirely unnecessary, as SWORD and JSword use the value of marker as it's quotation mark. So this would be better as: <q marker="">BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,</q> which is translated, <q marker="">GOD WITH US.</q> If the intention were to have quotation marks here then the following would be better: <q marker='"'>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,</q> which is translated, <q marker='"'>GOD WITH US.</q> However, the OSIS spec allows the <q> element to be milestoned. The real value is that it allows for opening and closing quotation marks to be different. To use the milestoned version, and suppress quotation marks, it would look like: <q marker="" sID="qXXX"/>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,<q marker="" eID="qXXX"/> which is translated, <q marker="" sID="qYYY"/>GOD WITH US.<q marker="" eID="qYYY"/> Note, if the intention was to really include quotation marks, then marker would have a value. In this case, one can either use the same straight marks for both or better use right and let curly quotes as in: <q marker="“" sID="qXXX"/>BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD, AND SHALL BRING FORTH A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,<q marker="”" eID="qXXX"/> which is translated, <q marker="“" sID="qYYY"/>GOD WITH US.<q marker="”" eID="qYYY"/> Regarding the WoC, the problem is doubled. It uses the quote element to mark the WoC and also includes the quotes directly in the text. The module has for Matt 5:3: <q marker="" who="Jesus"><q sID="gen106"/>"Blessed <hi type="italic">are</hi> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.<q eID="gen106"/></q> This is not how it is marked up in the input to osis2mod, but rather a result of how osis2mod transforms it. It is likely that the input OSIS had: <q who="Jesus">"Blessed <hi type="italic">are</hi> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. This has 3 problems: 1) The quotation mark is directly in the text. It should be represented the <q> element. 2) marker is not used to indicate the quotation mark. 3) <hi> is used to mark that the words are not from the original. It'd be better for it to be marked: <q who="Jesus" marker="">Blessed <transChange type="added">are</transChange> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. If the intention were straight quotation marks, then the following would have been better: <q who="Jesus" marker='"'>Blessed <transChange type="added">are</transChange> the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. I'll be moving this in Jira to be under MOD and changing the title to "EMTV quote problem".
        Hide
        DM Smith added a comment -

        While JSword can be changed to respect OSISqToTick, the problem really lies in the module markup . It'd be faster to fix it there than wait for JSword to support a deprecated SWORD feature.

        Show
        DM Smith added a comment - While JSword can be changed to respect OSISqToTick, the problem really lies in the module markup . It'd be faster to fix it there than wait for JSword to support a deprecated SWORD feature.
        Hide
        troy pulk added a comment -

        Okay,

        I'll change the EMTV WoC quotes so that OSISqToTick=false is not needed since the WoC is all that uses OSISqToTick.

        <q who="Jesus">"Permit it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."</q> since <q who="Jesus"></q> adds quote marks I'll remove the quote marks from the text.

        In doing this it will enable the EMTV to display properly in And Bible and BibleDesktop.

        Show
        troy pulk added a comment - Okay, I'll change the EMTV WoC quotes so that OSISqToTick=false is not needed since the WoC is all that uses OSISqToTick. <q who="Jesus">"Permit it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness."</q> since <q who="Jesus"></q> adds quote marks I'll remove the quote marks from the text. In doing this it will enable the EMTV to display properly in And Bible and BibleDesktop.
        Hide
        troy pulk added a comment -

        An update:

        <q who="Jesus"></q> causes double quotes, one is Black and one is Red.

        That's why I used OSISqToTick=false and added quotes to the text.

        <q who="Jesus" marker=""></q> works but the single quote marks are Black instead of Red.

        Also, what I'm I to do with The Beatitudes so that quote marks do not appear in each verse?

        Thanks

        Show
        troy pulk added a comment - An update: <q who="Jesus"></q> causes double quotes, one is Black and one is Red. That's why I used OSISqToTick=false and added quotes to the text. <q who="Jesus" marker=""></q> works but the single quote marks are Black instead of Red. Also, what I'm I to do with The Beatitudes so that quote marks do not appear in each verse? Thanks
        Hide
        DM Smith added a comment -

        I'm sorry I didn't see your last comment. The one before led me to believe that you were satisfied.

        Basically, <q who="Jesus" marker="">text that should show as red</q> will show everything between the begin q element and the end q element as red.
        Note: the marker attribute has an empty string.

        If you embed quotation marks in the text, those within the above construct will be red. Those outside will be black.

        There are three forms of markup for quotation marks.
        <q> ... </q> – This will cause the front-end to decide what mark to use. Typically a straight quote. The level attribute determines the one to pick. Typically, it will alternate between " and '.

        <q marker="x"> ... </quote> – This will use x as the quotation mark on both ends. This gives you control on which marker is used. But, it does not give you different choice on both ends.

        <q sID="abc" marker="x"/> ... <q eID="abc" marker="y"/> will use x as the opening quote and y as the closing quote. In most languages this is the preferred form as the quote marker is typically not a straight double or single quote, but rather some kind of left and right quote.

        In English, there is the notion of continuing quotes. This is used when a quote spans multiple paragraphs. The end quote won't be used at the end of the paragraph when the next paragraph is part of the same quote. The following paragraph will start with quotation mark, typically the same as the start quote. The form for this is:
        <milestone type="cQuote" marker="x"/>

        In the above x and y refer to some quotation mark under your control. They can be the same. Up to you.

        There's an improvement to osis2mod that you only need to mark up the start and end of the the Words of Christ within a chapter. Using the container version, not milestoned. In the past you had to mark it up per verse to get it right.

        Show
        DM Smith added a comment - I'm sorry I didn't see your last comment. The one before led me to believe that you were satisfied. Basically, <q who="Jesus" marker="">text that should show as red</q> will show everything between the begin q element and the end q element as red. Note: the marker attribute has an empty string. If you embed quotation marks in the text, those within the above construct will be red. Those outside will be black. There are three forms of markup for quotation marks. <q> ... </q> – This will cause the front-end to decide what mark to use. Typically a straight quote. The level attribute determines the one to pick. Typically, it will alternate between " and '. <q marker="x"> ... </quote> – This will use x as the quotation mark on both ends. This gives you control on which marker is used. But, it does not give you different choice on both ends. <q sID="abc" marker="x"/> ... <q eID="abc" marker="y"/> will use x as the opening quote and y as the closing quote. In most languages this is the preferred form as the quote marker is typically not a straight double or single quote, but rather some kind of left and right quote. In English, there is the notion of continuing quotes. This is used when a quote spans multiple paragraphs. The end quote won't be used at the end of the paragraph when the next paragraph is part of the same quote. The following paragraph will start with quotation mark, typically the same as the start quote. The form for this is: <milestone type="cQuote" marker="x"/> In the above x and y refer to some quotation mark under your control. They can be the same. Up to you. There's an improvement to osis2mod that you only need to mark up the start and end of the the Words of Christ within a chapter. Using the container version, not milestoned. In the past you had to mark it up per verse to get it right.

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          • Assignee:
            Unassigned
            Reporter:
            troy pulk
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            Dates

            • Created:
              Updated: