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<p>Right, there are currently no mappings in sword-tools. This is
where we traditionally have kept our versification definitions,
which I believe is shared between SWORD and JSword. We have tools
to check and convert these data files to our respective
requirements in our software:</p>
<p><a
href="http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk/versification/</a></p>
<p>My suggestion was for us to eventually, if we can agree on a
mapping definition format, to keep those somewhere near the
versification mappings, for sharing in the same way.</p>
<p>Troy</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/10/20 11:30 AM, Костя Маслюк
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Sorry I do not remember
all details of previous discussions, I have seen some text
data with verse to verse mappings on last discussions, but I
cant remember where. I would be happy if we approve cannon
definition with mappings that is appropriate for JSword, for
Sword cannon_*.h files ill be generated from them anyway, I
would write such python converter or process existing data
to that format.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Could you point me where
sword-tools contain mapping definitions, I do not see.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Blessings.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div
style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0cm"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Troy A. Griffitts</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>10 мая 2020 г. 20:53<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">SWORD Developers' Collaboration
Forum</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping
(SWORD + JSword)</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Applied. Thank you Костя!</p>
<p>Do you remember if there was a particular obstacle preventing
us from sharing mapping data between SWORD and JSword. It's
been so long and I wasn't deeply involved in those
discussion. It sure would be nice to keep these these mapping
definitions in sword-tools in some format from which both
SWORD and JSword can generate their necessary data structures.</p>
<p>Blessings. Hope you've been well.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/10/20 9:23 AM, Костя Маслюк wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hi! All cannon files
you mentioned are used to know, the only case is nrsva
that was not finished probably because base v11n, nrsv was
left for testing. I will review that v11ns again, in month
or two. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">By the way I see
following patches not applied.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">And it will be super
helpful if someone point me the texts best to compare, for
base v11n I use KJVA, but I do not sure about text to use
for NRSVA (NRSV too)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Blessings</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Troy A. Griffitts</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>6 мая 2020 г. 22:28<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">sword-devel@crosswire.org</a>; <a
href="mailto:kostyamaslyuk@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Костя Маслюк</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [sword-devel] Versification Mapping
(SWORD + JSword)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Dear John, Jamie, and Костя,</p>
<p>First, I want to say that DM Smith has also a versification
mapping implementation in JSword, which was, and likely
still is a foundational part of STEP. I don't know if STEP
uses JSword's versification mapping facility or if it
implements its own. There were collaboration efforts around
July 2014 to get SWORD and JSword to use the same data
sources, but I am not sure how that ended up.</p>
<p>I don't remember all the details of Костя's representation
for a mapping system, but we pushed pretty hard to have it
handle most all scenarios and doing a quick search it looks
like Костя and others have built mappings for these systems:</p>
<p>[scribe@localhost include]$ grep -l mapping
sword/include/canon*<br>
canon_calvin.h<br>
canon_darbyfr.h<br>
canon_nrsv.h<br>
canon_segond.h<br>
canon_synodal.h<br>
canon_vulg.h</p>
<p>If you are familiar with mapping systems (and it sounds
like John and Jamie all are) and have a look at the mapping
data in any of the above files as examples, I am sure you
will understand how Костя is representing data for his
implementation.</p>
<p>All this to say, it would be really great if any of you
might be interested in contributing mapping data to our
other supported versification systems which don't yet have
the mapping implemented:</p>
<p>[scribe@localhost include]$ grep -L mapping
sword/include/canon_*<br>
canon_abbrevs.h <- ignore this one<br>
canon_catholic2.h<br>
canon_catholic.h<br>
canon_german.h<br>
canon_kjva.h<br>
canon_leningrad.h<br>
canon_luther.h<br>
canon_lxx.h<br>
canon_mt.h<br>
canon_nrsva.h<br>
canon_null.h<br>
canon_orthodox.h<br>
canon_synodalprot.h</p>
<p><a href="http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk/include/</a></p>
<p>It would be a blessing to me and everyone who uses the
engine.</p>
<p>Serving together,</p>
<p>Troy</p>
<p> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 5/6/20 10:20 AM, John Dudeck wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Greetings,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
have done quite a bit of content development for Logos,
including Bibles that had versifications that did not
fit any existing schemes in Logos.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Logos
uses "verse maps", which are xml files that specify the
mapping of every verse in a particular versification to
every verse in each other versification. If a particular
whole book matches the versification of some other
existing versification, the verse map for that book can
simply reference the existing versification. In use, the
software is also able to infer mappings when going
between two versifications that aren't referenced
directly. The verse maps have to be validated before
they are incorporated, to avoid conflicting mappings.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
verse maps can handle such things as verses that are
split differently in different versifications, and the
headings in Psalms.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The
downside of their system is that the verse maps have to
be hard-compiled into a release of the software. They
are not pluggable. I think pluggable verse maps is on
their list of enhancements, but as far as I know the
feature has never been developed. Maybe they aren't
smart enough to figure it out. I don't know that I could
figure it out either.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">John</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width:5.5in;height:.0208in"
id="Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1"
src="cid:part8.E67FF2FE.D3178070@crosswire.org" class=""
width="528" height="2" border="0"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi Tobias,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Remember
that any libraries for STEP Bible would likely be
oriented towards JSword rather than SWORD per se.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">David</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent
from ProtonMail Mobile</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">On
Wed, May 6, 2020 at 17:04, Tobias Klein <</span><a
href="mailto:contact@tklein.info" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
contact@tklein.info</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
> wrote:</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:25.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi
Jamie,</span></p>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Thanks.
I had a look at the data, that’s quite complex! Even a
bit intimidating ...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
suppose STEPBible has some library functions that
parse this data?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Can
you point me to any APIs?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Best
regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Tobias</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:25.5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:51.05pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Am
06.05.2020 um 15:04 schrieb Jamie <</span><a
href="mailto:araj@critos.co.uk" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">
araj@critos.co.uk</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">>:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-left:51.05pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi
Tobias,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Not
sure that this exactly answers your question, but just
in case it’s relevant, Tyndale House have various public
domain information available, including material on
alternative versification schemes. The reversification
material gives details of how to map LXX, MT and Vulgate
schemes on to NRSVA (and also addresses some other
schemes which are perhaps less frequently encountered).
It also caters for common variants which basically
follow one of these schemes, but which have certain
verses split up into subverses. You can find the data
at :-</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data/blob/master/TVTMS%20-%20Tyndale%20Versification%20Traditions%20with%20Methodology%20for%20Standardisation%20for%20Eng%2BHeb%2BLat%2BGrk%2BOthers%20-%20TyndaleHouse.com%20STEPBible.org%20CC%20BY-NC.txt"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://github.com/tyndale/STEPBible-Data/blob/master/TVTMS%20-%20Tyndale%20Versification%20Traditions%20with%20Methodology%20for%20Standardisation%20for%20Eng%2BHeb%2BLat%2BGrk%2BOthers%20-%20TyndaleHouse.com%20STEPBible.org%20CC%20BY-NC.txt</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If
you do want to make use of it, I’d be very happy to try
to answer any questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">ARA
“Jamie” Jamieson</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Tobias
Klein [</span> <a href="mailto:contact@tklein.info"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">mailto:contact@tklein.info</span></a>
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 May 2020 21:19<br>
<b>To:</b> SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <</span>
<a href="mailto:sword-devel@crosswire.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">sword-devel@crosswire.org</span></a>
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [sword-devel] Versification Mapping</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Hi,</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I
would like to ask a question that I was planning to ask
for a while already ... <br>
What's the recommended solution of mapping different
versification systems?</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">And
what working implementations for this are already out
there? <br>
<br>
I realize that my understanding of versifications has
been a bit limited and that's visible in Ezra Project's
implementation of the mapping. I am currently only
differentiating between two versification systems,
namely the English versification (used in most/all (?)
English translations) and the Hebrew versification (used
in most modern German translations).</span></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">It's
been a few years since I looked into this and I think
this has been my source (SBL Handbook of Style) <br>
</span><a
href="https://books.google.de/books?id=M_upBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=appendix+english/hebrew/greek+versification&source=bl&ots=CXVR0J6YrI&sig=ACfU3U3hEIPgNxmmUQW1kZJaRAtHl78L-g&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilyoPUwp3pAhUrzqYKHVk4BtIQ6AEwAXoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=appendix%20english%2Fhebrew%2Fgreek%20versification&f=false"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://books.google.de/books?id=M_upBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=appendix+english/hebrew/greek+versification&source=bl&ots=CXVR0J6YrI&sig=ACfU3U3hEIPgNxmmUQW1kZJaRAtHl78L-g&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilyoPUwp3pAhUrzqYKHVk4BtIQ6AEwAXoECAYQAQ#v=onepage&q=appendix%20english%2Fhebrew%2Fgreek%20versification&f=false</span></a></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My
current approach in Ezra Project to map between English
and Hebrew versification is the following:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101">I
use "absolute verse numbers" in each book.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101">I
have mapping tables that basically define offsets for
the "absolute verse numbers" (see implementation </span><span
style="font-family:Symbol;color:#010101"><a
href="https://github.com/tobias-klein/ezra-project/blob/master/models/versereference.js#L177"
moz-do-not-send="true"> <span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">here</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101">).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101">The
versification (currently only English or Hebrew) of the
respective translation is detected based on some simple
dynamic tests when opening it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101">I
have functions to convert between one and the other
"absolute verse numbers" based on the mapping.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:229.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#010101">Verse
Reference objects are stored both with the English and
Hebrew absolute verse numbers and these objects are used
for assigning tags, notes, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This
works fairly well when using English translations and
German translations. The result is for example that tags
that were assigned to verses of an English translation
still show up correctly for the verses in a German
translation. This is particularly visible in Psalms.<br>
<br>
How flawed is my current approach described above?<br>
How do other frontends do it?<br>
Have there been plans to somehow integrate some sort of
mapping functionality into the SWORD engine?<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Tobias</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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