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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I agree that it is useful to allow
users to read the deuterocanonical/apocryphal books if they like,
regardless of your theological or church traditional bias
regarding their status. They add historical insight that help us
understand the 66 books of the Bible that all true Christians
agree on, among other things. I see no harm in preserving or
presenting them, even though I grew up in a church that did not
use them.<br>
<br>
The World English Bible includes the same set of books as the
NRSV, for the same ecumenical/church unity reasons. Those who
exclude them from their front ends or module creation activities
aren't really doing a service to Protestants, and they show that
they don't want Christians in Catholic and Orthodox churches
reading the Bible in their apps. I support making a user
selectable switch to turn display of these books on or off at
will, or to display books in Lutheran, Catholic, or Messianic book
order, again at the user's choice, but to hard code an exclusion
seems to me to be an invitation for competition by people who take
unity in the Body of Christ more seriously. <br>
<br>
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On 01/31/2014 01:48 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACQnaRV=yeUo=700N3vmsxBvB4XKF6j8sDnbQ8Abe-crpAFwRQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">+1. Regardless of your view of deutetocanonical
books, they can be useful for studying for all alike. It could
be used for example for the context of the use of a particular
word which will help define it better. </p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 31 Jan 2014 23:23, "DM Smith" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dmsmith@crosswire.org">dmsmith@crosswire.org</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">I'll add that there are
several views regarding the deuterocanonical material:
<div>Two are stated earlier in the thread: Part of the Bible
and Not part of the Bible.</div>
<div>I'd give a third: Useful for scholarship.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Greg has stated well what the theological position of </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The core libraries SWORD and JSword both support av11n
fully including deuterocanonical material.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
Some frontends lag in av11n support.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>AndBible has full support for av11n. With in the
defined av11n, the developer of AndBible has deliberately
supported the 66 books of the protestant canon and
deliberately left out deuterocanonical books. As noted, by
Peter it is a small change in the program to change the
support.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd suggest that AndBible have a flag to show/hide the
material.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When I go to a book store, I get to choose which Bibles
I buy. I think the same should be true w/ our Bible
programs.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In Him,</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>DM</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 31, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Greg Hellings <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:greg.hellings@gmail.com"
target="_blank">greg.hellings@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at
11:04 AM, Matěj Cepl <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mcepl@redhat.com"
target="_blank">mcepl@redhat.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
As a reaction on complains of some Czech
Catholics that And Bible<br>
doesn’t support reading of deuterocanonical
books (and Czech Bible<br>
modules don’t contain them at all even for
translations which have them,<br>
i.e. CzeCEP) I have started to look into it
and found<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://code.google.com/p/and-bible/wiki/AlternateVersification"
target="_blank">http://code.google.com/p/and-bible/wiki/AlternateVersification</a><br>
<br>
I am not sure whether the author of And Bible
doesn’t mix together two<br>
things ... after all the current And Bible
does support av11n, doesn’t<br>
it?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Don't let av11n - support for which is
purely a technical feat - conflate with the
theological position of the AndBible author
expressed in that wiki page. He's not saying
his application supports or doesn't support
non-KJV versification. He's only saying he
refuses to display text that he has claimed is
"uninspired". Specifically he is referring to
the apocrypha. It's entirely possible for him
to support NRSV, Masoretic Text, etc
versifications and still hide certain books.
For instance I would easily write an
application that uses the Sword library and
could display the current KJV without
displaying any of the Old Testament if I held
the opinion that such text was irrelevant or
uninspired (I do not).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I believe And Bible uses JSword, which had
lagging av11n support for a long time. I don't
recall any longer if it has added support for
that already or not. You'd need to check
either with the AndBible developer or try to
load a text that uses a non-KJV system and see
if it is supported to find out if AndBible
support the av11n technology.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
What is the “official” (or as official as
possible) position of the<br>
Sword project on deuterocanonical books /
apocrypha? Do other front-ends<br>
support them? Do we have some Catholic Bibles
which would contain them?<br>
How much this depends on the module themselves
... i.e., could it be<br>
possible just by using some other
versification create fully Catholic<br>
Bible, i.e., with deuterocanonical texts
meshed into the canonical text?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>CrossWire and Sword have tried to stay as
theologically neutral as we could without
compromising a core Christian theology. On our
website you'll see we even support two modules
whose veracity and scholarship are widely
panned: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Cults"
target="_blank">http://crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Cults</a>.
By adding support for av11n CrossWire has made
a commitment to not exclude the theological
positions of the Catholic and Orthodox
churches who do feel the apocryphal books are
inspired. I'm unaware of any desire for
additional deuterocanonical works or even more
expansive canons presently, though this is
likely due only to a lack of material
(although ones like the Ethiopian canon have
been brought up in discussions regarding
av11n, I'm unaware of any Sword versifications
or modules that include such works at this
time). Chris Little only adds versifications
to Sword when material is made available that
requires one, and does not do so preemptively
under the pretense of, "It might be useful
some day."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My understanding is that CrossWire desires
to take an inclusive approach to groups whose
theological positions might differ. That
AndBible has chosen to snub and insult the
majority of Christians by calling these texts
"uninspired" is sad. However, inclusion of
apocryphal material in an appendix rather than
in its location within the Catholic or
Orthodox canon is not unprecedented. The first
two Bibles I ever held that included such
material included it as an appendix to the Old
Testament before the text of the New. These,
however, were decidedly Protestant editions of
the text and this reflected the theological
position of the editors. I hope that AndBible
will support the more inclusive canons in the
future without pejorative language such as is
found on that page.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--Greg </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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