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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">We have a design in place which allows
      for the code example I previously mentioned:<br>
      <br>
      lxx-&gt;setKey(nasb-&gt;getKey())<br>
      <br>
      The engine recognized that the versifications are different and
      calls a facility to do the translation.&nbsp; We have not finalized on
      this facility yet. As also mentioned, &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1103; has submitted an
      implementation (long long ago) available here (not sure if this is
      his latest version, as he is using it now in Bibletime Mobile):<br>
      <br>
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://crosswire.org/~kalemas/work/v11nmapping/">http://crosswire.org/~kalemas/work/v11nmapping/</a><br>
      <br>
      I am happy for his submission.&nbsp; We would like to include it or
      something based off of it, but before we finalize something in the
      engine for everyone to use, I want to be sure we handle the basic
      issues mentioned in my preceding email on this.&nbsp; I am not
      convinced I have mentioned all issues with implementing a parallel
      display frontend because I have not yet tried to implement a
      parallel display frontend which tries to implement the 'superset'
      view described in my previous email.<br>
      <br>
      Chris, you are in an ideal position to give feedback on this--
      though it won't be as helpful for me or the solution within the
      SWORD engine, because I'm sure JSword has a completely different
      facility for versification classes internally.&nbsp; But regardless,
      your experience and feedback are invaluable as you drudge through
      this task.&nbsp; Let us know what you decide.<br>
      <br>
      Troy<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On 07/04/2013 05:29 PM, Chris Burrell wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CACQnaRWQdEnBsLD4V5BuVG7P6EJFbvJ-zRu_HQEmnZiSwUgXMg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">I'm guess I've misunderstood as Ps.51 shows the
        wrong alignment between Hebrew and English for the first two
        verses... What are these "translation facilities currently
        designed in the engine"?
        <div>
          Chris</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 4 July 2013 16:24, Chris Burrell <span
            dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:chris@burrell.me.uk" target="_blank">chris@burrell.me.uk</a>&gt;</span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">I'm afraid, I'm not sure I follow. The
              screenshot looks ok, but then I don't read Greek or Hebrew
              so I don't really know.
              <div>
                <br>
              </div>
              <div>Are you saying Sword already has translation from 1
                versification to another transparently, by "<span
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">&nbsp;</span><span
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">the
                  v11n translation facilities currently designed in the
                  engine</span>"? From previous threads, I thought that
                was one major thing that was still being worked on. So
                you already do have all the mappings to convert from one
                versification to another?</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I'm confused!</div>
              <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Chris</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </font></span></div>
            <div class="HOEnZb">
              <div class="h5">
                <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                  <br>
                  <div class="gmail_quote">On 4 July 2013 16:02, Troy A.
                    Griffitts <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:scribe@crosswire.org"
                        target="_blank">scribe@crosswire.org</a>&gt;</span>
                    wrote:<br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                      .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi
                      guys. The questions that need answers in this
                      thread are logically complex and are one of the
                      reasons we haven't finalized any additions to the
                      core SWORD library to support this-- though I
                      greatly appreciate the contributions made by
                      &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1103;.<br>
                      <br>
                      Take, for example our standard 4 Bible web display
                      preset for "OT Scholar", at Daniel chapter 3,
                      around veres 23:<br>
                      <br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&amp;add=NASB&amp;add=WLC&amp;add=KJV&amp;add=LXX&amp;key=Dan.3.23#cv"
                        target="_blank">http://crosswire.org/study/parallelstudy.jsp?del=all&amp;add=NASB&amp;add=WLC&amp;add=KJV&amp;add=LXX&amp;key=Dan.3.23#cv</a><br>
                      <br>
                      How should this look?<br>
                      <br>
                      The problem, for the uninitiated, is that The
                      Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Jews
                      in the LXX is inserted between what we
                      traditionally think of as verses 23 and 24. This
                      makes verse 24 in the KJV very different content
                      than what should be verse 24 in the LXX (our
                      current LXX displayed from the link above does not
                      include Apocryphal content)-- verse 24 in the LXX
                      being the first part of the Apocryphal content,
                      thus verse 91 in the LXX picking back up where
                      verse 24, in say the NASB (without the apocryphal
                      insertion), continues.<br>
                      <br>
                      The web interface above always displays in windows
                      of 1 chapter. Thus the user has asked for Chapter
                      3 of Daniel, centered on verse 23.<br>
                      <br>
                      There are a few questions to answer.<br>
                      <br>
                      What if they had asked for verse 24?<br>
                      <br>
                      What content do we show?<br>
                      <br>
                      Use case: The user is a protestant pastor, has
                      chosen NASB as his primary Bible, and is
                      interested in seeing the parallel verses to the
                      NASB in the other texts. He is not interested in
                      seeing apocryphal insertions. He primarily cares
                      about the NASB and only glances at the content
                      from the other modules when interested in seeing
                      the parallel.<br>
                      <br>
                      This is how the web frontend, and all current
                      SWORD based frontends *should* currently work with
                      no code changes, with the v11n translation
                      facilities currently designed in the engine. It
                      uses the first module as the "master" and iterated
                      its key and pulls the equivalent verses from the
                      other modules. The current facility in the engine
                      allows for:<br>
                      <br>
                      lxx-&gt;setKey(nasb-&gt;getKey())<br>
                      <br>
                      resulting in the LXX being positioned to the
                      equivalent verse (e.g., v91 from nasb v24)-- if
                      translation tables (for example from &#1050;&#1086;&#1089;&#1090;&#1103;) were
                      in place.<br>
                      <br>
                      But this use case, while likely the most dominant,
                      is not the most scholarly. A scholar would likely
                      wish to see a *superset* of all verses from all
                      displayed parallel Bibles, inserting gaps where
                      they should go in the other text which do not
                      contain the verses.<br>
                      <br>
                      Not too hard to imagine, but what is the
                      programmer-friendly API interface for this? Harder
                      to imagine. You can't simply choose one of the
                      modules to iterate.<br>
                      Possibly:<br>
                      <br>
                      ListKey superset;<br>
                      superset &lt;&lt; kjv-&gt;getKey() &lt;&lt;
                      nasb-&gt;getKey() &lt;&lt; lxx-&gt;getKey()
                      &lt;&lt; wlc-&gt;getKey();<br>
                      <br>
                      then one could iterate the superset listkey.<br>
                      <br>
                      This would leave the work of figuring out where
                      the gaps should go up to ListKey, or something in
                      the translation system in VerseKey which backs
                      ListKey.<br>
                      <br>
                      It's a complex problem, but we haven't even talked
                      about the issue of reordered content. Sometime
                      Romans 16:25-27a (obviously excluding the
                      subscriptio) is located after Romans 14:23. This
                      is an example of reordering. It doesn't give
                      problems from our "chapter window display" because
                      the reordering is across different chapters and
                      you could still pick your poison from the 2
                      choices above for display logic, but what about
                      display windows which allow more than a single
                      chapter, like BibleDesktop? Now the question
                      arises. If you've chosen to build a superset,
                      where do the gaps go? You could reasonably add
                      them to either place (after Romans 14:23 in the
                      modules which don't include the doxology here or
                      after Romans 16:24 for modules which don't include
                      the doxology here). How do you decide? How should
                      the program decide?<br>
                      <br>
                      Lot's of questions and input we all need to give
                      and a working proof of concept for at least a
                      single frontend before we commit to something for
                      everyone to use in the engine.<br>
                      <br>
                      Obviously not a 1.7.x issue, but feel free to
                      continue to give input.<br>
                      <br>
                      Troy<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      On 07/04/2013 03:26 PM, David Haslam wrote:<br>
                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                        And (for example) if you wish to query the whole
                        of the JPS module using book<br>
                        names, it will not do to specify *Gen-Mal*.<br>
                        <br>
                        You'd need to remember that in the Tanakh, the
                        last book is *II Chronicles*.<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        --<br>
                        View this message in context: <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Versifications-and-verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.html"
                          target="_blank">http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Versifications-and-verse-order-tp4652697p4652712.html</a><br>
                        Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at
                        Nabble.com.<br>
                        <br>
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