[sword-devel] Synodal versification & IBT modules?

refdoc@gmx.net refdoc at gmx.net
Sun May 12 06:00:57 MST 2013

I would strongly support scope. I have several modules on hold which will always only ever be partial translations, containing Genesis, Psalms , gospels and a few letters. This is a common pattern for small minority translations . Jsword is gone that way in parts, maybe a clear plan would be beneficial

Sent from my HTC

----- Reply message -----
From: "John Austin" <gpl.programs.info at gmail.com>
To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
Subject: [sword-devel] Synodal versification & IBT modules?
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 12:47

On 05/12/2013 02:19 PM, David Haslam wrote:
> Thanks friends.
> I wasn't trying to muddy the waters at all, but I myself had wondered
> whatever had happened after the detailed discussion about "scope" in .conf
> files.
Yes- The Scope param, if properly implemented, can solve many problems.

I would agree with others that a v11n like the proposed SynodalP, which is a simple a subset of Synodal, is not necessary IF a way is provided for front-ends to easily and quickly determine which books, chapters, and verses are included in (or purposely excluded from) a module's chosen v11n.

On the other hand, if SWORD will assume that module makers who choose an alternate v11n are thus required to fill that v11n in order to be "complete", then there definitely is a need for SynodalP. IBT, as an organization, is composed of both Protestant and Orthodox believers. But it is very likely that few, if any, of IBT's translation teams have any plans to ever translate the Apocryphal books. Russian Baptists and other historical Protestant groups in Russia and surrounding areas do not consider the Apocryphal material as Scripture. Russian Orthodox Bibles do include the Apocryphal books/chapters/verses but they are not, as an institution, pursuing translations of the Bible into minority languages to my knowledge. Therefore, it is certainly incorrect to assume that all Synodal versified translations should include the entire Synodal "canon". If this is the assumption by SWORD, then SynodalP (a correct SynodalP) is definitely required.

The original SynodalP was incorrect. The IBT canon.h which was used for SynodalP did have books in KJV order, but that was never the actual intent of IBT, as the front-end ordered the books differently depending on locale and most people use their program in Russian (which presented Synodal book ordering when locale was set to Russian). In reality, a subset of Synodal is really what IBT's translations themselves use. Either that or they use KJV. To make matters even more complicated, there are several translation teams which have decided to use the Synodal verse system in the Old Testament, but use the KJV in the New Testament! Thankfully, Synodal and KJV only differ by a few verses in the NT and so it's pretty painless to work around this (stuff a couple verses into a single v11n verse slot here, and leave another v11n verse slot there empty- usually with a footnote to explain this).

So implementing a good Scope feature would be a solid solution which will minimize the number of v11ns, reduce future mapping overhead, and provide more flexibility which is required by the real world. But it must also be understood by SWORD that a chosen alternate v11n does not necessarily represent a translation's canonical repertoire.

> If you can come to a consensus as to the best way forward, I'm sure I can
> persuade our friend at IBT to take advantage of it, once it's been
> implemented for both SWORD & JSword based apps.

IBT modules all currently have a "Scope" .conf parameter which shows exactly which books, chapters, and verses are included in any module.

I totally agree that we need a consensus on how to move forward with its implementation.

> Now that my wife has an iPad Mini, I'm trying to see what I can report as
> possible ways to improve user experience for PocketSword.
> Best regards,
> David
> --
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