TEST

From thulester at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 15:28:14 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 18:28:14 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard Message-ID: I just started working with OSIS. I create a KJV.osis file using: %mod2osis KJV > KJV.osis Then looking at the KJV.osis file I see this as header: -=-=-=- Remainder Deleted -=-=-=- The schemaLocation produced by mod2osis uses "osisCore.2.5.xsd". Examples in the manual at the website ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) says the most recent version is "osisCore.2.1.1.xsd". Ok, no big deal, documentation is often the last thing that gets updated. So then I try the following command: %xmllint --valid --noout KJV.osis All I get is: KJV.osis:3: validity error : Validation failed: no DTD found ! Location="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace osisCore.2.5.xsd" Then I try the following: %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003//osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis and: %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace --schema osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis All produce the same error, to the effect: http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd:2: parser error : Content error in the external subset ^ Could not parse DTD http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd Then I switch to looking at the osisCore.2.1.1.xsd file suggested at ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) site. I create a test file using the suggested headers mentioned in the documents at the same site (as follows): -=-=-=- File -=-=-=-

TEST Bible.TEST Bible.KJV Bible.KJV

-=-=-=- End of File -=-=-=- Expecting errors because the above file is missing stuff, I still can't get xmllint to work with this, continue getting "no DTD found" errors. So here are some questions: 1. Given mod2osis generates .osis files pointing to osisCore.2.5.xsd and the site ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) suggests osisCore.2.1.1.xsd can someone tell me which version is the correct version to use? 2. What is the most recent version (perhaps development-wise)? 3. Where can I get my hands on a valid .xsd file? 4. Can someone give me an example of an xmllint command (linux) that works remotely? Thanks. ~Andrew From mcepl at redhat.com Sun Apr 1 15:37:55 2012 From: mcepl at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWF0xJtqIENlcGw=?=) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 00:37:55 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F78D8C3.9040804@redhat.com> On 2.4.2012 00:28, Andrew Thule wrote: > KJV.osis:3: validity error : Validation failed: no DTD found ! > Location="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace osisCore.2.5.xsd" Yes, because .xsd file is not DTD, but XML Schema (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_Schema_%28W3C%29). Try xmllint --noout --schema KJV.osis Mat?j -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mceplceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Somewhere at the edge of the Bell curve was the girl for me. -- Based on http://xkcd.com/314/ From scribe at crosswire.org Sun Apr 1 15:53:04 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 00:53:04 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org> 2.5 was crosswire modifications with hopes to get pushed into the core spec. Don't use mod2osis. Use this: http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip On 04/02/2012 12:28 AM, Andrew Thule wrote: > I just started working with OSIS. I create a KJV.osis file using: > > %mod2osis KJV> KJV.osis > > Then looking at the KJV.osis file I see this as header: > > > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace > osisCore.2.5.xsd"> > > > > -=-=-=- Remainder Deleted -=-=-=- > > The schemaLocation produced by mod2osis uses "osisCore.2.5.xsd". > Examples in the manual at the website ( > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) says the most recent version is > "osisCore.2.1.1.xsd". Ok, no big deal, documentation is often the > last thing that gets updated. So then I try the following command: > > %xmllint --valid --noout KJV.osis > > All I get is: > > KJV.osis:3: validity error : Validation failed: no DTD found ! > Location="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace osisCore.2.5.xsd" > > Then I try the following: > %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd > KJV.osis > %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis > %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003//osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis > %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis > and: > %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace --schema > osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis > > All produce the same error, to the effect: > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd:2: > parser error : Content error in the external subset > > ^ > Could not parse DTD > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd > > Then I switch to looking at the osisCore.2.1.1.xsd file suggested at > ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) site. I create a test file > using the suggested headers mentioned in the documents at the same > site (as follows): > > -=-=-=- File -=-=-=- > > > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="osisCore.2.1.1" > xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace > http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd"> > > > >

> > TEST > Bible.TEST > Bible.KJV > > > Bible.KJV > >

> >

> > > > -=-=-=- End of File -=-=-=- > > Expecting errors because the above file is missing stuff, I still > can't get xmllint to work with this, continue getting "no DTD found" > errors. > > So here are some questions: > 1. Given mod2osis generates .osis files pointing to osisCore.2.5.xsd > and the site ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) suggests > osisCore.2.1.1.xsd can someone tell me which version is the correct > version to use? > 2. What is the most recent version (perhaps development-wise)? > 3. Where can I get my hands on a valid .xsd file? > 4. Can someone give me an example of an xmllint command (linux) that > works remotely? > > Thanks. > > ~Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From thulester at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 15:54:53 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 18:54:53 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: <4F78D8C3.9040804@redhat.com> References: <4F78D8C3.9040804@redhat.com> Message-ID: Merci beaucoup! I'll give that a try. ~Andrew On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Mat?j Cepl wrote: > On 2.4.2012 00:28, Andrew Thule wrote: >> >> KJV.osis:3: validity error : Validation failed: no DTD found ! >> Location="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >> osisCore.2.5.xsd" > > > Yes, because .xsd file is not DTD, but XML Schema > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_Schema_%28W3C%29). > > Try > > xmllint --noout --schema KJV.osis > > Mat?j > > -- > http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mceplceplovi.cz > GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB ?25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC > > Somewhere at the edge of the Bell curve was the girl for me. > ? ?-- Based on http://xkcd.com/314/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From thulester at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 16:10:05 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 19:10:05 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org> References: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org> Message-ID: @ Troy, thanks for the .zip file. I'm more interested in trying to figure out how to create modules than a specific module. My plan is try checking some of the stock modules. Writing a test module, validate it, eliminate errors .... so on. @ Mat?j, I wasn't having much success with --schema either. Even so, I downloaded a copy osisCore.2.1.1.xsd and the example you gave, worked (thanks). Is there a way to generate a .osis file from the stock modules without using mod2osis? Using mod2osis seems to generate tons of errors with xmllint (presumably because the schema isn't supported). What's the best way to starting to create a 'test' module for learning purposes? ~Andrew If I download the .xsd file the command line example you gave should work On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > 2.5 was crosswire modifications with hopes to get pushed into the core spec. > > Don't use mod2osis. ?Use this: > > http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > > > > > On 04/02/2012 12:28 AM, Andrew Thule wrote: >> >> I just started working with OSIS. ?I create a KJV.osis file using: >> >> %mod2osis KJV> ?KJV.osis >> >> Then looking at the KJV.osis file I see this as header: >> >> >> >> > ? xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" >> ? xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >> osisCore.2.5.xsd"> >> >> > xml:lang="en"> >> >> -=-=-=- Remainder Deleted -=-=-=- >> >> The schemaLocation produced by mod2osis uses "osisCore.2.5.xsd". >> Examples in the manual at the website ( >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) says the most recent version is >> "osisCore.2.1.1.xsd". ?Ok, no big deal, documentation is often the >> last thing that gets updated. ?So then I try the following command: >> >> %xmllint --valid --noout KJV.osis >> >> All I get is: >> >> KJV.osis:3: validity error : Validation failed: no DTD found ! >> Location="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >> osisCore.2.5.xsd" >> >> Then I try the following: >> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd >> KJV.osis >> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003//osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >> and: >> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace --schema >> osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >> >> All produce the same error, to the effect: >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd:2: >> parser error : Content error in the external subset >> >> ^ >> Could not parse DTD >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd >> >> Then I switch to looking at the osisCore.2.1.1.xsd file suggested at >> ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) site. ?I create a test file >> using the suggested headers mentioned in the documents at the same >> site (as follows): >> >> -=-=-=- File -=-=-=- >> >> >> >> > ? xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" >> ? xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="osisCore.2.1.1" >> ? xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >> >> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd"> >> >> > xml:lang="en"> >> >> ? ? ? ?

>> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? TEST >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Bible.TEST >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Bible.KJV >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Bible.KJV >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? >> ? ? ? ?

>> >> ? ? ? ?

>> ? ? ? ?

>> ? ? ? ? >> >> >> -=-=-=- End of File -=-=-=- >> >> Expecting errors because the above file is missing stuff, I still >> can't get xmllint to work with this, continue getting "no DTD found" >> errors. >> >> So here are some questions: >> 1. Given mod2osis generates .osis files pointing to osisCore.2.5.xsd >> and the site ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) suggests >> osisCore.2.1.1.xsd can someone tell me which version is the correct >> version to use? >> 2. What is the most recent version (perhaps development-wise)? >> 3. Where can I get my hands on a valid .xsd file? >> 4. Can someone give me an example of an xmllint command (linux) that >> works remotely? >> >> Thanks. >> >> ~Andrew >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Sun Apr 1 16:23:44 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 01:23:44 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F78E380.7070304@crosswire.org> Dear Andrew, There are tons of docs for module development on our wiki under Module Development: http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/ ... and lots of examples (the KJV data I gave being a rich OSIS example). You should always obtain data from our source, as exporting and importing between formats is seldom ever lossless. Here is a validating OSIS example which touches on many features and is best practice encoded as far as CrossWire is concerned: http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles/BSPExample If you'd like to see how a particular entry of a module is encoded, you can use: sword/examples/cmdline/lookup to see this. If you are new at module creation, 'imp' format is probably your easiest starting point: $$$Gen.1.1 In the beginning... $$$Gen.1.2 and the earth was without form... ... Hope this is helpful, Troy On 04/02/2012 01:10 AM, Andrew Thule wrote: > @ Troy, thanks for the .zip file. I'm more interested in trying to > figure out how to create modules than a specific module. My plan is > try checking some of the stock modules. Writing a test module, > validate it, eliminate errors .... so on. > > @ Mat?j, I wasn't having much success with --schema either. Even so, > I downloaded a copy osisCore.2.1.1.xsd and the example you gave, > worked (thanks). > > Is there a way to generate a .osis file from the stock modules without > using mod2osis? Using mod2osis seems to generate tons of errors with > xmllint (presumably because the schema isn't supported). > > What's the best way to starting to create a 'test' module for learning purposes? > > ~Andrew > > If I download the .xsd file the command line example you gave should work > > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> 2.5 was crosswire modifications with hopes to get pushed into the core spec. >> >> Don't use mod2osis. Use this: >> >> http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip >> >> >> >> >> On 04/02/2012 12:28 AM, Andrew Thule wrote: >>> >>> I just started working with OSIS. I create a KJV.osis file using: >>> >>> %mod2osis KJV> KJV.osis >>> >>> Then looking at the KJV.osis file I see this as header: >>> >>> >>> >>> >> xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" >>> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >>> osisCore.2.5.xsd"> >>> >>> >> xml:lang="en"> >>> >>> -=-=-=- Remainder Deleted -=-=-=- >>> >>> The schemaLocation produced by mod2osis uses "osisCore.2.5.xsd". >>> Examples in the manual at the website ( >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) says the most recent version is >>> "osisCore.2.1.1.xsd". Ok, no big deal, documentation is often the >>> last thing that gets updated. So then I try the following command: >>> >>> %xmllint --valid --noout KJV.osis >>> >>> All I get is: >>> >>> KJV.osis:3: validity error : Validation failed: no DTD found ! >>> Location="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >>> osisCore.2.5.xsd" >>> >>> Then I try the following: >>> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd >>> KJV.osis >>> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >>> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003//osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >>> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >>> and: >>> %xmllint --noout --dtdvalid >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace --schema >>> osisCore.2.5.xsd KJV.osis >>> >>> All produce the same error, to the effect: >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd:2: >>> parser error : Content error in the external subset >>> >>> ^ >>> Could not parse DTD >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace/osisCore.2.5.xsd >>> >>> Then I switch to looking at the osisCore.2.1.1.xsd file suggested at >>> ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) site. I create a test file >>> using the suggested headers mentioned in the documents at the same >>> site (as follows): >>> >>> -=-=-=- File -=-=-=- >>> >>> >>> >>> >> xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" >>> xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="osisCore.2.1.1" >>> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.bibletechnologies.net/2003/OSIS/namespace >>> >>> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/osisCore.2.1.1.xsd"> >>> >>> >> xml:lang="en"> >>> >>>

>>> >>> TEST >>> Bible.TEST >>> Bible.KJV >>> >>> >>> Bible.KJV >>> >>>

>>> >>>

>>>

>>> >>> >>> >>> -=-=-=- End of File -=-=-=- >>> >>> Expecting errors because the above file is missing stuff, I still >>> can't get xmllint to work with this, continue getting "no DTD found" >>> errors. >>> >>> So here are some questions: >>> 1. Given mod2osis generates .osis files pointing to osisCore.2.5.xsd >>> and the site ( http://www.bibletechnologies.net/ ) suggests >>> osisCore.2.1.1.xsd can someone tell me which version is the correct >>> version to use? >>> 2. What is the most recent version (perhaps development-wise)? >>> 3. Where can I get my hands on a valid .xsd file? >>> 4. Can someone give me an example of an xmllint command (linux) that >>> works remotely? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> ~Andrew >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From greg.hellings at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 16:40:31 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 18:40:31 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: > @ Troy, thanks for the .zip file. ?I'm more interested in trying to > figure out how to create modules than a specific module. ?My plan is > try checking some of the stock modules. ?Writing a test module, > validate it, eliminate errors .... so on. > > @ Mat?j, I wasn't having much success with --schema either. ?Even so, > I downloaded a copy osisCore.2.1.1.xsd and the example you gave, > worked (thanks). > > Is there a way to generate a .osis file from the stock modules without > using mod2osis? ?Using mod2osis seems to generate tons of errors with > xmllint (presumably because the schema isn't supported). mod2osis does not generate valid OSIS. This is a known and acknowledged problem and is not going to be fixed. --Greg From wolfgang_stradner at wycliffe.org Sun Apr 1 22:47:43 2012 From: wolfgang_stradner at wycliffe.org (Wolfgang Stradner) Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 07:47:43 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] xulsword now available as a Firefox add-in In-Reply-To: <1333109282742-4518853.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1332593859861-4501294.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120324131013.GB29668@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1332600062552-4501433.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120324173547.GA32756@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1332615152361-4501905.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120325004115.GA5728@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1333109282742-4518853.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F793D7F.2060105@wycliffe.org> Hi David, Good to hear, that xulsword is continued to be developped as an add-on to Firefox. So I will continue to have a look on it and see, how it works. Greetings Wolfgang On 03/30/2012 02:08 PM, David Haslam wrote: > There is now a new Linux version of xulsword (currently as a Firefox add-on) > available here: > http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/downloads/detail?name=xulsword_Firefox%28linux%29-3.3.xpi > > This is basically a beta version, but it seems to work quite well. > > Please report back any issues via the Google code pages. > > On behalf of the developer. > > David > > -- > View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xulsword-now-available-as-a-Firefox-add-in-tp4501294p4518853.html > Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From bdrake at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 07:01:26 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 15:01:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> Message-ID: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> Hi there ..... I've been exchanging e-mails with Gary North. It has not been an easy process, but somehow I've kept my patience. The first e-mail to sword-support said something like 'Your program doesn't work .... ' I've had to drag information from Gary a word at a time - literally. However, patience has paid off, and I forward his last e-mail. The program that caused all the grief is of course the notorious 'Sword Project for Windows'. Please please please consider demoting it seriously on the web site. I've corresponded with many new users who are frustrated and almost lost to Sword entirely because of their first impressions. Please consider putting Xiphos and BibleTime at the top of the list of Windows programs and hiding the legacy program somewhat lower down the list! I hope this does not offend - but what is said in the message below is a summary of a lot of views I have tried to respond to. I'd appreciate Peter's take on this as he has done far more than I have on the Sword Support list recently. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [sword-support] Video tutorials Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:46:24 -0400 From: Gary North Reply-To: To: 'Barry Drake' A few minutes ago, one of my site's members -- a programmer -- posted this. It pretty much sums it up. Yes, I had forgotten how unusable the site really is. The site I linked to is the main API site. It is an open source project that started 13 years ago to provide an opensource Bible software engine, so yes, run by programmers. I suffer from the same disease. When you click on the Software link, it lists all the projects that use the API. The first software application listed, is useless, and they stopped adding features for it in 2008. Its existence is for testing the API. They should never had listed it. The second one listed, Xiphos, is the product you want for Windows or Linux. It is well documented. No videos, but you can read the user's manual here: http://xiphos.org/manual/ (it has pictures of the app, making it easier reading). MacSword (for the Mac) does not appear to be as well documented (no pictures, no obvious link to a manual) and only documents how to download Bibles, and Commentaries. The iPhone app remains true to Apples principles (cute not helpful) The documentation for the Android app is nonexistent. I use the Android app, but I have used this software for years. You have to go into settings and click on "Download Documents" to get Bibles and commentaries, not intuitive. I've had my head in the sands for so long in programming, it never crossed my mind how unusable the site is, and I have used it for years. Thanks for the heads up, Dr. North. Now I need to do some soul searching and consider doing screencast videos for some of the project's software. ________________________________ To subscribe to my free Tip of the Week, click here: http://www.GaryNorth.com/public/department54.cfm -----Original Message----- From: Barry Drake [mailto:b.drake at ntlworld.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:06 AM To: garynorth at garynorth.com Subject: Re: [sword-support] Video tutorials On 03/04/12 12:52, Gary North wrote: > Sorry, This is techiebabble. I may invest some money to provide videos. I'm really sorry my explanation is not clear. Please tell me how to make it clearer. I thought my question about which Sword program you are using is a fairly jargon-free request. The other thing I referred to is an item that appears somewhere in a menu in every Sword program - it is called 'module manager', or sometimes 'bookshelf', and our term for a bible or a commentary etc is a 'module'. I'd love to be able to help or to point you in the direction of help if only you will give me more information. Usually, there is a 'help->about' menu item in the program. This would tell you what I need to know. God bless, Barry. -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. http://ubuntuadverts.org/ From dfhmch at googlemail.com Tue Apr 3 08:01:14 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:01:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1333465274713-4529036.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Barrie, I've stopped using The SWORD Project for Windows (aka BibleCS) ever since I replaced my Acer Aspire (WinXP) by a Toshiba Satellite (Win7 x64) in August 2010. Next month, it'll be exactly four years since BibleCS was last updated. The front-ends I currently have installed are Xiphos, Bible Destop and xulsword (aka Holy Bible). I don't have a smart phone - but if I did, I'd be hard pressed to choose between an iPhone and an Android. The latter would probably win. David Haslam Go Bible project leader -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-tp4528871p4529036.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Tue Apr 3 08:10:08 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:10:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] xulsword locale translations Message-ID: <1333465808202-4529062.post@n4.nabble.com> If anyone has contacts who would like to provide locale translations for xulsword, the UI phrases are listed in http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/wiki/Locale_Phrases I'm sure the programmer would appreciate any such offers. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xulsword-locale-translations-tp4529062p4529062.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Tue Apr 3 08:12:07 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] xulsword locale translations In-Reply-To: <1333465808202-4529062.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1333465808202-4529062.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1333465927882-4529069.post@n4.nabble.com> See also http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/wiki/Locale_Creation David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xulsword-locale-translations-tp4529062p4529069.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bdrake at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 08:24:48 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 16:24:48 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <1333465274713-4529036.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <1333465274713-4529036.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F7B1640.6020608@crosswire.org> On 03/04/12 16:01, David Haslam wrote: > I've stopped using The SWORD Project for Windows (aka BibleCS) ever since I > replaced my Acer Aspire (WinXP) by a Toshiba Satellite (Win7 x64) in August > 2010. Next month, it'll be exactly four years since BibleCS was last updated. There was some discussion on this list a few months ago asking why BibleCS was still so heavily promoted on the website. I know there was overwhelming feeling that things should change. They did not! Valiant attempts were made years ago by David Trotz to improve the appearance and usability of BibleCS - but David left the project a few years ago. There are now at least four excellent front-ends that can run under Windows and the web-site ought to reflect that, and encourage the new user to try each of them. Could I ask all of you to visit the web-site and try to behave as though you know nothing about the Sword Project. Or better still, have a friend go through it and then see what impression they are left with. It's quite an eye-opener. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 08:41:04 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 10:41:04 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <4F7B1640.6020608@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <1333465274713-4529036.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B1640.6020608@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Barry Drake wrote: > On 03/04/12 16:01, David Haslam wrote: >> >> I've stopped using The SWORD Project for Windows (aka BibleCS) ever since >> I >> replaced my Acer Aspire (WinXP) by a Toshiba Satellite (Win7 x64) in >> August >> 2010. ?Next month, it'll be exactly four years since BibleCS was last >> updated. > > ?There was some discussion on this list a few months ago asking why BibleCS > was still so heavily promoted on the website. ?I know there was overwhelming > feeling that things should change. ?They did not! > > Valiant attempts were made years ago by David Trotz to improve the > appearance and usability of BibleCS - but David left the project a few years > ago. ?There are now at least four excellent front-ends that can run under > Windows and the web-site ought to reflect that, and encourage the new user > to try each of them. > > Could I ask all of you to visit the web-site and try to behave as though you > know nothing about the Sword Project. ?Or better still, have a friend go > through it and then see what impression they are left with. ?It's quite an > eye-opener. There is always the disconnect between who our target audience is and who we are. Some people think the website should be targeted at end users. If so, then it should be remade to be more like www.ubuntu.com where it is unmistakably easy to figure out what you need to do in order to acquire the software. There is one single, prominent button that you click on and it takes you right to a list of downloads for the program. Our website doesn't even have a link with the word "Download" in it - and that rubs me the wrong way. Whenever I visit software sites as a user I want a big link somewhere prominent - either like Ubuntu's button or a menu item - that says "Download" or "Download Now" or possibly "Get It!" since that is what I almost universally encounter on websites. We just have a link that says "Software" and it is tucked away in a menu broken between multiple lines. I still have to sit and stare at the website for several seconds before I remember what link to follow - and this after nearly a decade of using our software. Then there are developers who our site also targets. Granted, we don't target them very well, but neither do almost any open source projects. Almost all of open source projects suffer from a lack of good material for a new developer coming into the project. But we are also targeting them with the website. Some people seem to think that the Wiki is aimed at developers and the website at users - others seem to have the opposite opinion. The result is that 1) the website has no link to the wiki that I can ever find so how would anyone know about it? 2) Both the website and the wiki are very poor amalgamations of multiple sets of data targeting diifferent audiences and the result is that neither one is effective in its objective. Several people have offered to tackle updates to the website with varying degrees of success. Some have had issues because they were developers and developers tend to do poorly at such design. Some have had issues because they were designers and were not so good at actually implementing their designs. Others have simply run out of time or have met with resistance and thus given up. I don't believe the poor quality of the site and the wiki are a result of someone's desire for a low quality face but a reflection of the fact that almost none of us have all three: 1) design skill 2) developer skill 3) time to tackle the massive overhaul it would require. --Greg > > God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. > > -- > From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East > Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. ?See > http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and > http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. > > Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From mcepl at redhat.com Tue Apr 3 09:58:21 2012 From: mcepl at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWF0xJtqIENlcGw=?=) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:58:21 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> On 3.4.2012 16:01, Barry Drake wrote: > The second one listed, Xiphos, is the product you want for Windows or > Linux. > > It is well documented. No videos, but you can read the user's manual here: > http://xiphos.org/manual/ (it has pictures of the app, making it easier > reading). I am not a Windows user, so just a question ... what's better Xiphos or Bibletime for Windows? (maybe we should list both as to avoid a civil war, if it is point of contest) But yes, I would like to have user-oriented "Download here" website as default Sword site (with buttons for Windows, Mac, Linux/{Gnome, KDE}, iOS, Android, and http://www.crosswire.org/study/). As for developers, I believe just a link to wiki should be enough ... if you are a developer you should understand the wiki's frontpage; it is not so bad after all. Blessings, Mat?j -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mceplceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC The ratio of literacy to illiteracy is a constant, but nowadays the illiterates can read. -- Alberto Moravia From bdrake at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 10:22:08 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 18:22:08 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> On 03/04/12 17:58, Mat?j Cepl wrote: > I am not a Windows user, so just a question ... what's better Xiphos > or Bibletime for Windows? (maybe we should list both as to avoid a > civil war, if it is point of contest) Both look virtually the same under Windows as under your favourite Linux. Neither is 'better', it's purely a matter of which one fits the way the user works. Xiphos fits my work style very well, but until Xiphos has full av11n support (quite soon now), I am mainly using Bibletime. I wouldn't say either is better, just different. BibleDesktop is another good alternative ... I'd really like to see the web-page encourage the would-be user to try them all and settle for the one that suits them. Maybe we could list the main features of each. I seem to remember a wiki some years ago that attempted to do just that. It will be well out of date by now. Features like the ability to set up several free-floating windows with different text in each, is a feature I have used a lot. It only exists in Xiphos. When preparing a sermon, it is neat to be able to have each of the readings for the day in places where I can move them about .... Others with different uses will really want some of the main features of one of the other programs ... it's horses for courses really. We could also stress the fact that you only need one collection of modules for all the installed front-ends. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From dmsmith at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 11:36:34 2012 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 14:36:34 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <650E5BCB-2350-4105-ACF0-9D701EA17E32@crosswire.org> Just a friendly reminder. Those that post to sword-support have an expectation of privacy. When we cross-post to sword-devel and don't remove the user's name and especially their email, we don't meet that expectation. The sword-support is not archived on the internet. Sword-devel is. In Him, DM On Apr 3, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Barry Drake wrote: > Hi there ..... I've been exchanging e-mails with Gary North. It has not been an easy process, but somehow I've kept my patience. The first e-mail to sword-support said something like 'Your program doesn't work .... ' I've had to drag information from Gary a word at a time - literally. However, patience has paid off, and I forward his last e-mail. > > The program that caused all the grief is of course the notorious 'Sword Project for Windows'. Please please please consider demoting it seriously on the web site. I've corresponded with many new users who are frustrated and almost lost to Sword entirely because of their first impressions. Please consider putting Xiphos and BibleTime at the top of the list of Windows programs and hiding the legacy program somewhat lower down the list! I hope this does not offend - but what is said in the message below is a summary of a lot of views I have tried to respond to. > > I'd appreciate Peter's take on this as he has done far more than I have on the Sword Support list recently. > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: [sword-support] Video tutorials > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 08:46:24 -0400 > From: Gary North > Reply-To: > To: 'Barry Drake' > > > > A few minutes ago, one of my site's members -- a programmer -- posted this. > It pretty much sums it up. > > > > Yes, I had forgotten how unusable the site really is. The site I linked to > is the main API site. It is an open source project that started 13 years ago > to provide an opensource Bible software engine, so yes, run by programmers. > I suffer from the same disease. > > When you click on the Software link, it lists all the projects that use the > API. The first software application listed, is useless, and they stopped > adding features for it in 2008. Its existence is for testing the API. They > should never had listed it. > > The second one listed, Xiphos, is the product you want for Windows or Linux. > It is well documented. No videos, but you can read the user's manual here: > http://xiphos.org/manual/ (it has pictures of the app, making it easier > reading). > > MacSword (for the Mac) does not appear to be as well documented (no > pictures, no obvious link to a manual) and only documents how to download > Bibles, and Commentaries. > > The iPhone app remains true to Apples principles (cute not helpful) > > The documentation for the Android app is nonexistent. I use the Android app, > but I have used this software for years. You have to go into settings and > click on "Download Documents" to get Bibles and commentaries, not intuitive. > > I've had my head in the sands for so long in programming, it never crossed > my mind how unusable the site is, and I have used it for years. Thanks for > the heads up, Dr. North. > > Now I need to do some soul searching and consider doing screencast videos > for some of the project's software. > > ________________________________ > To subscribe to my free Tip of the Week, click here: > http://www.GaryNorth.com/public/department54.cfm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barry Drake [mailto:b.drake at ntlworld.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 8:06 AM > To: garynorth at garynorth.com > Subject: Re: [sword-support] Video tutorials > > On 03/04/12 12:52, Gary North wrote: >> Sorry, This is techiebabble. I may invest some money to provide videos. > > I'm really sorry my explanation is not clear. Please tell me how to make it > clearer. I thought my question about which Sword program you are using is > a fairly jargon-free request. The other thing I referred to is an item that > appears somewhere in a menu in every Sword program - it is called 'module > manager', or sometimes 'bookshelf', and our term for a bible or a commentary > etc is a 'module'. > > I'd love to be able to help or to point you in the direction of help if only > you will give me more information. Usually, there is a 'help->about' menu > item in the program. This would tell you what I need to know. > > God bless, Barry. > > -- > Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. > http://ubuntuadverts.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 11:53:45 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:53:45 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites (was: Video tutorials) In-Reply-To: <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> To second what Greg said and to defend the last person who attempted to meet all audiences with our website (not me), if you hit: http://crosswire.org Click Software Click Windows You get a list software for Windows. We can't necessarily have a "Download Now" button as most projects have chosen not to host their development work on CrossWire's server and I won't believe they would (nor blame them for not doing so) keep updated Windows and Mac packages in some central CrossWire download facility. We've had hard enough time getting news reports from everyone. Other OSs don't use a 'download now' from a website concept, but get their software from a package manager (Android, iOS, Redhat, Ubuntu, etc.) I'm not amiss to giving other Windows frontends more prominence, but it's hard to decide how: BPBible, Bible Desktop, Bibletime, Xiphos, XulSWORD (listed ASCIIbetically) all run fine on Windows and complaining that everyone only downloads BibleCS because it is listed first would translate to a valid complaint for any 2-n listed project. I too am generally frustrated with both our wiki and our main website. The wiki has so much misinformation and bad examples and is anything but concise, and the main website is generally unattractive and doesn't have the latest bits of useful information which are on the wiki. I'm not blaming anyone, as Greg has said, no one wants this. I very seldom take the time to read the wiki with the intent to fix things. I end up finding them when I intend to refer someone to the wiki and read the information I'm about to link to. Some who edit the wiki don't have the history or expertise. Many who have the history or expertise don't have time to edit the wiki. It's a vicious circle. Everyone has good intentions. I'm open for suggestions, but every couple years we go through this iteration of a wave of frustration about our websites and someone steps up and revamps some things, and no one is happy and we move on for another couple years. Troy On 04/03/2012 07:22 PM, Barry Drake wrote: > On 03/04/12 17:58, Mat?j Cepl wrote: >> I am not a Windows user, so just a question ... what's better Xiphos >> or Bibletime for Windows? (maybe we should list both as to avoid a >> civil war, if it is point of contest) > > Both look virtually the same under Windows as under your favourite > Linux. Neither is 'better', it's purely a matter of which one fits the > way the user works. Xiphos fits my work style very well, but until > Xiphos has full av11n support (quite soon now), I am mainly using > Bibletime. I wouldn't say either is better, just different. BibleDesktop > is another good alternative ... I'd really like to see the web-page > encourage the would-be user to try them all and settle for the one that > suits them. Maybe we could list the main features of each. I seem to > remember a wiki some years ago that attempted to do just that. It will > be well out of date by now. > > Features like the ability to set up several free-floating windows with > different text in each, is a feature I have used a lot. It only exists > in Xiphos. When preparing a sermon, it is neat to be able to have each > of the readings for the day in places where I can move them about .... > Others with different uses will really want some of the main features of > one of the other programs ... it's horses for courses really. > > We could also stress the fact that you only need one collection of > modules for all the installed front-ends. > > God bless, Barry. > From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 12:19:49 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 14:19:49 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites (was: Video tutorials) In-Reply-To: <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> Message-ID: I lack any artistic or design ability whatsoever. However, as a full-time web developer and now even being a full-time Java web developer (as the site is currently written in) I am willing to do the technical implementation of a site if someone wants to whip up a wireframe and site tree structure that people agree on. I wish any such adventurous person the best of luck with the last phrase in the preceding sentence. --Greg On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > To second what Greg said and to defend the last person who attempted to meet > all audiences with our website (not me), if you hit: > > http://crosswire.org > > Click Software > Click Windows > > You get a list software for Windows. > > We can't necessarily have a "Download Now" button as most projects have > chosen not to host their development work on CrossWire's server and I won't > believe they would (nor blame them for not doing so) keep updated Windows > and Mac packages in some central CrossWire download facility. We've had hard > enough time getting news reports from everyone. ?Other OSs don't use a > 'download now' from a website concept, but get their software from a package > manager (Android, iOS, Redhat, Ubuntu, etc.) > > I'm not amiss to giving other Windows frontends more prominence, but it's > hard to decide how: BPBible, Bible Desktop, Bibletime, Xiphos, XulSWORD > (listed ASCIIbetically) all run fine on Windows and complaining that > everyone only downloads BibleCS because it is listed first would translate > to a valid complaint for any 2-n listed project. > > I too am generally frustrated with both our wiki and our main website. The > wiki has so much misinformation and bad examples and is anything but > concise, and the main website is generally unattractive and doesn't have the > latest bits of useful information which are on the wiki. > > I'm not blaming anyone, as Greg has said, no one wants this. ?I very seldom > take the time to read the wiki with the intent to fix things. ?I end up > finding them when I intend to refer someone to the wiki and read the > information I'm about to link to. ?Some who edit the wiki don't have the > history or expertise. ?Many who have the history or expertise don't have > time to edit the wiki. ?It's a vicious circle. ?Everyone has good > intentions. > > I'm open for suggestions, but every couple years we go through this > iteration of a wave of frustration about our websites and someone steps up > and revamps some things, and no one is happy and we move on for another > couple years. > > Troy > > > > On 04/03/2012 07:22 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >> >> On 03/04/12 17:58, Mat?j Cepl wrote: >>> >>> I am not a Windows user, so just a question ... what's better Xiphos >>> or Bibletime for Windows? (maybe we should list both as to avoid a >>> civil war, if it is point of contest) >> >> >> Both look virtually the same under Windows as under your favourite >> Linux. Neither is 'better', it's purely a matter of which one fits the >> way the user works. Xiphos fits my work style very well, but until >> Xiphos has full av11n support (quite soon now), I am mainly using >> Bibletime. I wouldn't say either is better, just different. BibleDesktop >> is another good alternative ... I'd really like to see the web-page >> encourage the would-be user to try them all and settle for the one that >> suits them. Maybe we could list the main features of each. I seem to >> remember a wiki some years ago that attempted to do just that. It will >> be well out of date by now. >> >> Features like the ability to set up several free-floating windows with >> different text in each, is a feature I have used a lot. It only exists >> in Xiphos. When preparing a sermon, it is neat to be able to have each >> of the readings for the day in places where I can move them about .... >> Others with different uses will really want some of the main features of >> one of the other programs ... it's horses for courses really. >> >> We could also stress the fact that you only need one collection of >> modules for all the installed front-ends. >> >> God bless, Barry. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From bdrake at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 13:03:06 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 21:03:06 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> On 03/04/12 19:53, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > To second what Greg said and to defend the last person who attempted > to meet all audiences with our website (not me), if you hit: > http://crosswire.org Click Software Click Windows You get a list > software for Windows. Oh, I agree - and that would be OK - BUT the hit you get from the search engines is usually: http://www.crosswire.org/sword/index.jsp and the software link from there takes you to: http://www.crosswire.org/sword/software/index.jsp which only offers BibleCS as a Windows program. This is why the queries on sword-support simply say 'your program', and don't understand what I am talking about when I say 'which program?'. They have only been aware of one! If those links got rearranged, life would be just a bit easier. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From dfhmch at googlemail.com Tue Apr 3 13:13:58 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 13:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Websites (was: Video tutorials) In-Reply-To: <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> One thing would improve our website considerably. A more unified "Brand Image" and web-page style. The stark contrast in going from http://www.crosswire.org/ to http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ (and related pages) illustrates what I'm referring to. It makes us appear incompetent to the outside world. 12 months ago Peter enlisted a friendly web designer to have a go at improving things. This fell by the wayside, probably because someone thought the changes were too "drastic" and deviated too much from how we began. Even going from http://www.crosswire.org/ to http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/ with my subsequent redirect to http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/newpage/ involves a color change to the horizontal dividers, etc. To a large extent, these core problems arise because we're not a top down organization. We're all volunteers with different areas of expertise and interests. Some have less time than others to thing about these matters, by virtue of having day jobs or being in full time studies. If we were a business, then the CEO or management team would make firm decisions about such matters, and provide or allocate the resources to implement the company policies. I've worked most of my engineering career in a large multinational, so I've observed first hand how these things work out. Again, because many of us are programmers or engineers, few of us have strong experience in marketing, nor possess the skills that go with the job description. Just because all our products are free of charge doesn't mean that we don't need to be active in marketing them. Many of our applications are better in some aspects than other Bible Study software out in the market place, yet getting them recognized is an uphill task. Just one example: Our mobile (smart phone) apps do not require remote access to a streaming text server. They don't even "call home" with usage statistics. This is quite common among other products. So for areas where internet access is patchy or restricted, we have a competitive edge in terms of how our applications operate. Once installed, modules do not need a continuous connection to keep working. We need to build on our strengths. Anyone care to do a SWOT analysis? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-tp4528871p4530049.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Tue Apr 3 13:22:26 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 13:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> OK - following Barrie's last reply to Troy... It would help to decouple the website dependency linkage between our modules and the SWORD front-end. Modules are common to all our applications (except Go Bible), so the URL for modules should be at a higher level than it is now, a subsidiary of the SWORD project. i.e. They should be at http://crosswire.org/modules/ Don't go there - the page doesn't exist - this is just me thinking while I'm typing. Making this change would provide an opportunity to restyle the modules pages to the newer appearance. We can then decide what to do about how BibleCS is presented to the outside world as a separate task. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-tp4528871p4530071.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 13:31:38 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:31:38 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites (was: Video tutorials) In-Reply-To: <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, David Haslam wrote: > One thing would improve our website considerably. > > A more unified "Brand Image" and web-page style. My understanding is that the varying site styles were purposeful. That way it's easy to differentiate that "SWORD" and "GoBible" are different brands. If I go to www.ford.com and www.lincoln.com the two are markedly different websites even though they are the same company. They are marketed as different brands within the same umbrella corporation but they want to maintain a distinct identity. I don't think the difference from www.crosswire.org/ to www.crosswire.org/sword/ is that big of a deal. I think the biggest problem is that the /sword/ site is itself fraught with problems of antiquated content, obtuse navigation, and difficulty updating. --Greg > > The stark contrast in going from > http://www.crosswire.org/ > to > http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ > (and related pages) > illustrates what I'm referring to. > > It makes us appear incompetent to the outside world. > > 12 months ago Peter enlisted a friendly web designer to have a go at > improving things. > This fell by the wayside, probably because someone thought the changes were > too "drastic" and deviated too much from how we began. > > Even going from > http://www.crosswire.org/ > to > http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/ > with my subsequent redirect to http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/newpage/ > involves a color change to the horizontal dividers, etc. > > To a large extent, these core problems arise because we're not a top down > organization. > We're all volunteers with different areas of expertise and interests. > Some have less time than others to thing about these matters, by virtue of > having day jobs or being in full time studies. > > If we were a business, then the CEO or management team would make firm > decisions about such matters, and provide or allocate the resources to > implement the company policies. I've worked most of my engineering career in > a large multinational, so I've observed first hand how these things work > out. > > Again, because many of us are programmers or engineers, few of us have > strong experience in marketing, nor possess the skills that go with the job > description. Just because all our products are free of charge doesn't mean > that we don't need to be active in marketing them. > > Many of our applications are better in some aspects than other Bible Study > software out in the market place, yet getting them recognized is an uphill > task. Just one example: > > Our mobile (smart phone) apps do not require remote access to a streaming > text server. > They don't even "call home" with usage statistics. ?This is quite common > among other products. > > So for areas where internet access is patchy or restricted, we have a > competitive edge in terms of how our applications operate. Once installed, > modules do not need a continuous connection to keep working. > > We need to build on our strengths. Anyone care to do a SWOT analysis? > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis > > David > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-tp4528871p4530049.html > Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 13:41:21 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 22:41:21 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7B6071.6000705@crosswire.org> Noted and fixed (at least, within my lack of aesthetic skillset ability). On 04/03/2012 10:03 PM, Barry Drake wrote: > On 03/04/12 19:53, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> To second what Greg said and to defend the last person who attempted >> to meet all audiences with our website (not me), if you hit: >> http://crosswire.org Click Software Click Windows You get a list >> software for Windows. > > Oh, I agree - and that would be OK - BUT the hit you get from the search > engines is usually: http://www.crosswire.org/sword/index.jsp and the > software link from there takes you to: > http://www.crosswire.org/sword/software/index.jsp which only offers > BibleCS as a Windows program. This is why the queries on sword-support > simply say 'your program', and don't understand what I am talking about > when I say 'which program?'. They have only been aware of one! If those > links got rearranged, life would be just a bit easier. > > God bless, Barry. > From bdrake at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 14:20:16 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 22:20:16 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B6071.6000705@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <4F7B6071.6000705@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7B6990.4060106@crosswire.org> On 03/04/12 21:41, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Noted and fixed (at least, within my lack of aesthetic skillset ability). Thanks Troy. That's 110% better already. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From patrick at zakweb.de Tue Apr 3 14:44:42 2012 From: patrick at zakweb.de (Patrick Zimmermann) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2012 23:44:42 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites (was: Video tutorials) In-Reply-To: References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <201204032344.42433.patrick@zakweb.de> Hello, the following are mostly random thoughts off the top of my head while browsing the crosswire.org sites for ten minutes. I think that thinking about the target groups of the different pages can be helpful. The way I understand this, the sword project is effectively a library, thus a developer tool. So the target audience of /sword are developers. The introductory text on /sword sort of supports this impression. The crosswire page tries to show the different projects under the crosswire umbrella, including the affiliated sword frontends and gobible. So this seems like an end user page to me. The nice overview of the different applications on the crosswire main site supports my impression. I think most problems arise because end users browse /sword. So making this distinction a lot clearer might be a solution. A banner in a prominent location: "If you are not a developer go to crosswire.org" might solve that problem. Also I would not directly link the "The Sword Project" button to the /sword site. That makes it hard to understand the relation between the two pages. Putting a sub page with an introductory text (perhaps the text from the "Home" tab) will make it clear that there is a separate site that deals specifically with the sword library. I think the only link to the wiki (which I think is the part of the website with the by far most content) is on the FAQ of crosswire.org at the very bottom. I think putting a link to the wiki on /sword might be a good idea. Backlinks from /sword to crosswire.org should be prohibited (it's a separate site if I understood this right). So the FAQ link on /sword should be removed. Given that /sword is targeted at developers the "Developers" tab should be removed and the information presented directly on the page. The "Publishers" tab should go to crosswire.org, since they are no developers and not interested in a library. Greetings, Patrick Zimmermann On Tuesday, 3. April 2012 22:31:38 Greg Hellings wrote: > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, David Haslam wrote: > > One thing would improve our website considerably. > > > > A more unified "Brand Image" and web-page style. > > My understanding is that the varying site styles were purposeful. That > way it's easy to differentiate that "SWORD" and "GoBible" are > different brands. If I go to www.ford.com and www.lincoln.com the two > are markedly different websites even though they are the same company. > They are marketed as different brands within the same umbrella > corporation but they want to maintain a distinct identity. > > I don't think the difference from www.crosswire.org/ to > www.crosswire.org/sword/ is that big of a deal. I think the biggest > problem is that the /sword/ site is itself fraught with problems of > antiquated content, obtuse navigation, and difficulty updating. > > --Greg > > > The stark contrast in going from > > http://www.crosswire.org/ > > to > > http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ > > (and related pages) > > illustrates what I'm referring to. > > > > It makes us appear incompetent to the outside world. > > > > 12 months ago Peter enlisted a friendly web designer to have a go at > > improving things. > > This fell by the wayside, probably because someone thought the changes > > were too "drastic" and deviated too much from how we began. > > > > Even going from > > http://www.crosswire.org/ > > to > > http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/ > > with my subsequent redirect to http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/newpage/ > > involves a color change to the horizontal dividers, etc. > > > > To a large extent, these core problems arise because we're not a top down > > organization. > > We're all volunteers with different areas of expertise and interests. > > Some have less time than others to thing about these matters, by virtue > > of having day jobs or being in full time studies. > > > > If we were a business, then the CEO or management team would make firm > > decisions about such matters, and provide or allocate the resources to > > implement the company policies. I've worked most of my engineering career > > in a large multinational, so I've observed first hand how these things > > work out. > > > > Again, because many of us are programmers or engineers, few of us have > > strong experience in marketing, nor possess the skills that go with the > > job description. Just because all our products are free of charge > > doesn't mean that we don't need to be active in marketing them. > > > > Many of our applications are better in some aspects than other Bible > > Study software out in the market place, yet getting them recognized is > > an uphill task. Just one example: > > > > Our mobile (smart phone) apps do not require remote access to a streaming > > text server. > > They don't even "call home" with usage statistics. This is quite common > > among other products. > > > > So for areas where internet access is patchy or restricted, we have a > > competitive edge in terms of how our applications operate. Once > > installed, modules do not need a continuous connection to keep working. > > > > We need to build on our strengths. Anyone care to do a SWOT analysis? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis > > > > David > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > > http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-t > > p4528871p4530049.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at > > Nabble.com. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From chrislit at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 15:03:38 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 15:03:38 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F7B73BA.7060502@crosswire.org> On 4/3/12 1:13 PM, David Haslam wrote: > One thing would improve our website considerably. > > A more unified "Brand Image" and web-page style. > > The stark contrast in going from > http://www.crosswire.org/ > to > http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ > (and related pages) > illustrates what I'm referring to. > > It makes us appear incompetent to the outside world. http://www.forministry.com/ vs. http://www.americanbible.org/ Stark contrast, ergo ABS "appear incompetent to the outside world". http://www.biblesociety.org.uk/ vs. http://shop.biblesociety.org.uk/ Stark contrast -> BFBS "appear incompetent to the outside world". http://www.libronix.com/page.aspx vs. http://www.logos.com/ Stark contrast... apparently everyone is doing it wrong. CrossWire is an organization with multiple "products". The SWORD Project is one of those "products". Having dissimilar themes on their respective pages enhances brand identity for disparate brands that target different audiences. --Chris From chrislit at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 15:13:20 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 15:13:20 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7B7600.2030308@crosswire.org> On 4/3/12 11:53 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > I'm not amiss to giving other Windows frontends more prominence, but > it's hard to decide how: BPBible, Bible Desktop, Bibletime, Xiphos, > XulSWORD (listed ASCIIbetically) all run fine on Windows and complaining > that everyone only downloads BibleCS because it is listed first would > translate to a valid complaint for any 2-n listed project. Randomly sort! If you're more ambitious, you could sort non-randomly based on up/down votes (a la StackOverflow or Digg) or release recency, but random sorting would take a couple minutes to implement vs. much more time for reasoned sorting. --Chris From chrislit at crosswire.org Tue Apr 3 15:13:54 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 15:13:54 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> On 4/3/12 1:22 PM, David Haslam wrote: > OK - following Barrie's last reply to Troy... > > It would help to decouple the website dependency linkage between our modules > and the SWORD front-end. > > Modules are common to all our applications (except Go Bible), so the URL for > modules should be at a higher level than it is now, a subsidiary of the > SWORD project. > i.e. They should be at > http://crosswire.org/modules/ > Don't go there - the page doesn't exist - this is just me thinking while I'm > typing. Modules are specifically part of The SWORD Project, though, which is why they're in The SWORD Project's pages. They aren't separately a CrossWire product or used by any non-Sword CrossWire product. --Chris From dhowens at pmbx.net Tue Apr 3 18:26:23 2012 From: dhowens at pmbx.net (Daniel Owens) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 20:26:23 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <201204032344.42433.patrick@zakweb.de> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <1333484038434-4530049.post@n4.nabble.com> <201204032344.42433.patrick@zakweb.de> Message-ID: <4F7BA33F.3050003@pmbx.net> I like Patrick's idea of targeting different groups with different pages. What if www.crosswire.org were a very simple page with very little text - just a brief description of CrossWire (like the one we already have), perhaps a graphic cycling through screenshots of various front-ends, and rather large links targeted to different groups: Read the Bible Online Download Bible Software (Windows, Mac, Linux, and various mobile devices) Build your SWORD Library (Download the ESV, NET, KJV, and Bibles and other resources in more than x # of languages) Volunteer with SWORD (Contribute code, translate applications, create modules, and more) Learn More or Get Help In any case, the front page could be simplified to make it easier for various constituencies to quickly identify where to find what they are looking for. Daniel On 04/03/2012 04:44 PM, Patrick Zimmermann wrote: > Hello, > > the following are mostly random thoughts off the top of my head while browsing > the crosswire.org sites for ten minutes. > > I think that thinking about the target groups of the different pages can be > helpful. > > The way I understand this, the sword project is effectively a library, thus a > developer tool. So the target audience of /sword are developers. The > introductory text on /sword sort of supports this impression. > > The crosswire page tries to show the different projects under the crosswire > umbrella, including the affiliated sword frontends and gobible. So this seems > like an end user page to me. The nice overview of the different applications on > the crosswire main site supports my impression. > > > I think most problems arise because end users browse /sword. So making this > distinction a lot clearer might be a solution. > > A banner in a prominent location: "If you are not a developer go to > crosswire.org" might solve that problem. > > Also I would not directly link the "The Sword Project" button to the /sword > site. That makes it hard to understand the relation between the two pages. > Putting a sub page with an introductory text (perhaps the text from the "Home" > tab) will make it clear that there is a separate site that deals specifically > with the sword library. > > I think the only link to the wiki (which I think is the part of the website > with the by far most content) is on the FAQ of crosswire.org at the very > bottom. I think putting a link to the wiki on /sword might be a good idea. > > Backlinks from /sword to crosswire.org should be prohibited (it's a separate > site if I understood this right). So the FAQ link on /sword should be removed. > > Given that /sword is targeted at developers the "Developers" tab should be > removed and the information presented directly on the page. > > The "Publishers" tab should go to crosswire.org, since they are no developers > and not interested in a library. > > Greetings, > Patrick Zimmermann > > On Tuesday, 3. April 2012 22:31:38 Greg Hellings wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:13 PM, David Haslam wrote: >>> One thing would improve our website considerably. >>> >>> A more unified "Brand Image" and web-page style. >> My understanding is that the varying site styles were purposeful. That >> way it's easy to differentiate that "SWORD" and "GoBible" are >> different brands. If I go to www.ford.com and www.lincoln.com the two >> are markedly different websites even though they are the same company. >> They are marketed as different brands within the same umbrella >> corporation but they want to maintain a distinct identity. >> >> I don't think the difference from www.crosswire.org/ to >> www.crosswire.org/sword/ is that big of a deal. I think the biggest >> problem is that the /sword/ site is itself fraught with problems of >> antiquated content, obtuse navigation, and difficulty updating. >> >> --Greg >> >>> The stark contrast in going from >>> http://www.crosswire.org/ >>> to >>> http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ >>> (and related pages) >>> illustrates what I'm referring to. >>> >>> It makes us appear incompetent to the outside world. >>> >>> 12 months ago Peter enlisted a friendly web designer to have a go at >>> improving things. >>> This fell by the wayside, probably because someone thought the changes >>> were too "drastic" and deviated too much from how we began. >>> >>> Even going from >>> http://www.crosswire.org/ >>> to >>> http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/ >>> with my subsequent redirect to http://www.crosswire.org/gobible/newpage/ >>> involves a color change to the horizontal dividers, etc. >>> >>> To a large extent, these core problems arise because we're not a top down >>> organization. >>> We're all volunteers with different areas of expertise and interests. >>> Some have less time than others to thing about these matters, by virtue >>> of having day jobs or being in full time studies. >>> >>> If we were a business, then the CEO or management team would make firm >>> decisions about such matters, and provide or allocate the resources to >>> implement the company policies. I've worked most of my engineering career >>> in a large multinational, so I've observed first hand how these things >>> work out. >>> >>> Again, because many of us are programmers or engineers, few of us have >>> strong experience in marketing, nor possess the skills that go with the >>> job description. Just because all our products are free of charge >>> doesn't mean that we don't need to be active in marketing them. >>> >>> Many of our applications are better in some aspects than other Bible >>> Study software out in the market place, yet getting them recognized is >>> an uphill task. Just one example: >>> >>> Our mobile (smart phone) apps do not require remote access to a streaming >>> text server. >>> They don't even "call home" with usage statistics. This is quite common >>> among other products. >>> >>> So for areas where internet access is patchy or restricted, we have a >>> competitive edge in terms of how our applications operate. Once >>> installed, modules do not need a continuous connection to keep working. >>> >>> We need to build on our strengths. Anyone care to do a SWOT analysis? >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-t >>> p4528871p4530049.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at >>> Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From dfhmch at googlemail.com Wed Apr 4 01:16:39 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 01:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1333527399275-4531214.post@n4.nabble.com> > Modules are specifically part of The SWORD Project, though, which is why > they're in The SWORD Project's pages. They aren't separately a CrossWire > product or used by any non-Sword CrossWire product. Yes Chris, But many new visitors are confused because when we refer to "The SWORD Project", as they don't immediately realize that this can mean one of two things: (a) the back-end SWORD engine - the API (b) the front-end app (abbrev SPW) also known internally as BibleCS It took me almost 12 months to realize this, so heaven help someone who's not a programmer or doesn't have an engineering background! The point is that our library of SWORD modules is integral for all the SWORD and JSword based front-end apps, not just to BibleCS. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-tp4528871p4531214.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From bdrake at crosswire.org Wed Apr 4 01:45:52 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 09:45:52 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1333527399275-4531214.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333527399275-4531214.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F7C0A40.3030105@crosswire.org> On 04/04/12 09:16, David Haslam wrote: > But many new visitors are confused because when we refer to "The SWORD > Project", as they don't immediately realize that this can mean one of > two things: Not to mention the added confusion when they write to sword-support because they can't get 'your e-Sword program' to work! -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From bdrake at crosswire.org Wed Apr 4 06:01:53 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2012 14:01:53 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] [sword-support] Video tutorials In-Reply-To: <650E5BCB-2350-4105-ACF0-9D701EA17E32@crosswire.org> References: <014301cd1197$c7ee9cd0$57cbd670$@poetworld.net> <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <650E5BCB-2350-4105-ACF0-9D701EA17E32@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F7C4641.6070602@crosswire.org> On 03/04/12 19:36, DM Smith wrote: > Just a friendly reminder. Those that post to sword-support have an expectation of privacy. When we cross-post to sword-devel and don't remove the user's name and especially their email, we don't meet that expectation. Thanks for the reminder. I asked Gary a couple of questions and I copy his reply below. The idea of good video instructions seems good to me. We are a bit weak on the documentation front at times. His site is worth a visit to view his theology. American Prosperity Gospel (to which I don't personally subscribe). Gary's website and videos are totally Windows oriented, which rules me out as a video volunteer, but I do think the concept of a video along the style he uses is a good one. Anyone want to go for it? Quoted e-mail follows: "I came here: http://crosswire.org/index.jsp Then here: http://crosswire.org/applications.jsp Then here: http://crosswire.org/sword/software/biblecs/ Then here: Installation Instructions Let me show you what can be done. I paid a young man $500. http://www.garynorth.com/public/department154.cfm I paid $1,000 for this: http://www.garynorth.com/public/department154.cfm Each video must be in two parts (1) gee whiz; (2) easy as pie. The first shows one useful function. It takes 30 seconds. The rest of it shows how to do it. Whole video: 3 minutes, max. Rehearse it a few times. Then record it. Narrate what you are doing as you do it. Use a lapel mic: http://bit.ly/ATR3350. Use screencasting software: www.screencast-o-matic.com. Create a YouTube channel. End the videos with a link back to your site. Do a separate series for each OS." End quotation. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From refdoc at gmx.net Fri Apr 6 15:54:40 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 00:54:40 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Word of Jesus/Red Letter mark up Message-ID: <20120406225440.235650@gmx.net> Hi, I have just committed a script in sword-tools which creates a xml formatted list of all direct speech (with associatated strongs) by Jesus in the NT. I also posted an example file produced from our KJV. The script will work on all OSIS formatted files and can be useful for a bunch of tasks: 1) comparison between different texts - useful for debugging new WoJ marked up texts 2) it might exist in creating new (e.g. non-English) WoJ marked up modules, by both showing which verses need markup and maybe also allowing partial automatisation/ 3) it might assist in creating automatised non-English strong encoded Bible texts, by cutting texts into smaller known chunks. There is one explicit shortcoming of my script - I do not understand XPath namespaces and hence one needs to delete the xmlns attribute in a given OSIS file before it works. Improvements on this or any other matter are welcome. Peter -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de From refdoc at gmx.net Fri Apr 6 22:26:28 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 07:26:28 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Word of Jesus/Red Letter mark up In-Reply-To: <20120406225440.235650@gmx.net> References: <20120406225440.235650@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20120407052628.70830@gmx.net> > Von: "Peter von Kaehne" > The script will work on all OSIS formatted files Sorry, correction : The script will work on all BCV formatted OSIS files. BSP formatted texts would require some significant adjustments Peter -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a From mjdenham at gmail.com Sat Apr 7 02:34:48 2012 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 10:34:48 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) module has disappeared Message-ID: The HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) has disappeared from the download list. You can see it has disappeared from the modules list here: http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Sat Apr 7 02:44:21 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 02:44:21 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) module has disappeared In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F800C75.2030303@crosswire.org> New version in the av11n repo, old version in the attic repo. --Chris On 4/7/2012 2:34 AM, Martin Denham wrote: > The HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) has disappeared from > the download list. > > You can see it has disappeared from the modules list here: > http://www.crosswire.org/sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?modType=Bibles > > Martin > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From mjdenham at gmail.com Sat Apr 7 02:51:17 2012 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 10:51:17 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) module has disappeared In-Reply-To: <4F800C75.2030303@crosswire.org> References: <4F800C75.2030303@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Hi Chris, Could we put the old version back in the standard repo, at least until most front ends start using the av11n repo? Martin On 7 April 2012 10:44, Chris Little wrote: > New version in the av11n repo, old version in the attic repo. > > --Chris > > > > On 4/7/2012 2:34 AM, Martin Denham wrote: > >> The HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) has disappeared from >> the download list. >> >> You can see it has disappeared from the modules list here: >> http://www.crosswire.org/**sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?**modType=Bibles >> >> Martin >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Sat Apr 7 03:08:25 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 03:08:25 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) module has disappeared In-Reply-To: References: <4F800C75.2030303@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F801219.4030009@crosswire.org> It's in the attic repo for front ends unable to use av11n. If we continue making every module available in degraded versions for front ends that don't support av11n, those front ends will never support av11n. --Chris On 4/7/2012 2:51 AM, Martin Denham wrote: > Hi Chris, > > Could we put the old version back in the standard repo, at least until > most front ends start using the av11n repo? > > Martin > > On 7 April 2012 10:44, Chris Little > wrote: > > New version in the av11n repo, old version in the attic repo. > > --Chris > > > > On 4/7/2012 2:34 AM, Martin Denham wrote: > > The HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) has > disappeared from > the download list. > > You can see it has disappeared from the modules list here: > http://www.crosswire.org/__sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?__modType=Bibles > > > Martin > > > _________________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/__mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _________________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/__mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From mjdenham at gmail.com Sat Apr 7 03:59:36 2012 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 11:59:36 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) module has disappeared In-Reply-To: <4F801219.4030009@crosswire.org> References: <4F800C75.2030303@crosswire.org> <4F801219.4030009@crosswire.org> Message-ID: The initial impact is on the end users. Would it be possible to give some warning when a module is to be removed from the standard repository? On 7 April 2012 11:08, Chris Little wrote: > It's in the attic repo for front ends unable to use av11n. If we continue > making every module available in degraded versions for front ends that > don't support av11n, those front ends will never support av11n. > > --Chris > > > On 4/7/2012 2:51 AM, Martin Denham wrote: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Could we put the old version back in the standard repo, at least until >> most front ends start using the av11n repo? >> >> Martin >> >> On 7 April 2012 10:44, Chris Little > > wrote: >> >> New version in the av11n repo, old version in the attic repo. >> >> --Chris >> >> >> >> On 4/7/2012 2:34 AM, Martin Denham wrote: >> >> The HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) has >> disappeared from >> the download list. >> >> You can see it has disappeared from the modules list here: >> http://www.crosswire.org/__**sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?__** >> modType=Bibles >> > modType=Bibles >> > >> >> Martin >> >> >> ______________________________**___________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> > >> http://www.crosswire.org/__**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> >> >> > >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> ______________________________**___________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> > >> http://www.crosswire.org/__**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> >> >> > >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wolfgang_stradner at wycliffe.org Sat Apr 7 04:03:07 2012 From: wolfgang_stradner at wycliffe.org (Wolfgang Stradner) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 13:03:07 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] xulsword now available as a Firefox add-in In-Reply-To: <1333109282742-4518853.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1332593859861-4501294.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120324131013.GB29668@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1332600062552-4501433.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120324173547.GA32756@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1332615152361-4501905.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120325004115.GA5728@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1333109282742-4518853.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F801EEB.1050309@wycliffe.org> Great, it works in Linux as an add-in/on in Firefox. Question: How to give feed-back to the programmer? - should this go over the sword-devel list (where I got the latest info about xulsword, or over - http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/ or - directly to the programmer? Greetings Wolfgang On 03/30/2012 02:08 PM, David Haslam wrote: > There is now a new Linux version of xulsword (currently as a Firefox add-on) > available here: > http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/downloads/detail?name=xulsword_Firefox%28linux%29-3.3.xpi > > This is basically a beta version, but it seems to work quite well. > > Please report back any issues via the Google code pages. > > On behalf of the developer. > > David > > -- > View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xulsword-now-available-as-a-Firefox-add-in-tp4501294p4518853.html > Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From scribe at crosswire.org Sat Apr 7 06:02:35 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (scribe777@gmail.com) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2012 15:02:35 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) module has disappeared In-Reply-To: References: <4F800C75.2030303@crosswire.org> <4F801219.4030009@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <5e0f68bc-0562-49c8-86d9-18c59435d0b2@email.android.com> Hey Martin and Chris, I know a lot of thought and work by the module repo maintainers has gone into trying to make this a smooth transition. What seems to be the problem? It's my understanding that software not yet supporting av11n should have both 'attic' and the standard CrossWire repo in their list, and those supporting av11n should have the standard repo and the 'av11n' repo. Martin, does this not solve your end user problem? Troy Martin Denham wrote: >The initial impact is on the end users. Would it be possible to give >some >warning when a module is to be removed from the standard repository? > >On 7 April 2012 11:08, Chris Little wrote: > >> It's in the attic repo for front ends unable to use av11n. If we >continue >> making every module available in degraded versions for front ends >that >> don't support av11n, those front ends will never support av11n. >> >> --Chris >> >> >> On 4/7/2012 2:51 AM, Martin Denham wrote: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> Could we put the old version back in the standard repo, at least >until >>> most front ends start using the av11n repo? >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> On 7 April 2012 10:44, Chris Little >> > wrote: >>> >>> New version in the av11n repo, old version in the attic repo. >>> >>> --Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/7/2012 2:34 AM, Martin Denham wrote: >>> >>> The HunUj Bible (New Translation Hungarian Bible) has >>> disappeared from >>> the download list. >>> >>> You can see it has disappeared from the modules list here: >>> http://www.crosswire.org/__**sword/modules/ModDisp.jsp?__** >>> >modType=Bibles >>> >> >modType=Bibles >>> > >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**___________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>

> >>> >http://www.crosswire.org/__**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> >>> > >>> > >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above >page >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**___________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> > >>> >http://www.crosswire.org/__**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> >>> > >>> > >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> >http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> >http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >_______________________________________________ >sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Sat Apr 7 08:31:40 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 08:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] xulsword now available as a Firefox add-in In-Reply-To: <4F801EEB.1050309@wycliffe.org> References: <1332593859861-4501294.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120324131013.GB29668@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1332600062552-4501433.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120324173547.GA32756@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1332615152361-4501905.post@n4.nabble.com> <20120325004115.GA5728@fcshome.stoneham.ma.us> <1333109282742-4518853.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F801EEB.1050309@wycliffe.org> Message-ID: <1333812700696-4539583.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Wolfgang, All feedback on xulsword should be reported through the Google code pages. http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/ I'm in direct contact with the developer, but that's another story. Best regards, David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xulsword-now-available-as-a-Firefox-add-in-tp4501294p4539583.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From woschultz at googlemail.com Sat Apr 7 14:09:48 2012 From: woschultz at googlemail.com (Wolfgang Schultz) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 23:09:48 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] XML2SWORD Message-ID: *XML2SWORD* converts a Zefania XML or an OSIS bible file to a SWORD module. After converting, the SWORD module is installed on the correct place for *Xiphos* and *BibleTime*. Start this Crosswire bible study tools and the converted modul is ready for use. Have fun! http://sword-resources.blogspot.de/2012/04/xml2sword-konverter.html ws -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scribe at crosswire.org Sun Apr 8 00:29:38 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (scribe777@gmail.com) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 09:29:38 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Happy Easter Message-ID: <5a8fdab4-cc11-455f-abbc-42c320337105@email.android.com> Happy Easter my friends and co-laborers in the Lord. He is risen! -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From refdoc at gmx.net Sun Apr 8 05:19:42 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2012 14:19:42 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Happy Easter In-Reply-To: <5a8fdab4-cc11-455f-abbc-42c320337105@email.android.com> References: <5a8fdab4-cc11-455f-abbc-42c320337105@email.android.com> Message-ID: <20120408121942.184480@gmx.net> > Von: "scribe777 at gmail.com" > Happy Easter my friends and co-laborers in the Lord. He is risen! He is risen, indeed! Peter -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a From brian.j.dumont at gmail.com Sun Apr 8 08:07:56 2012 From: brian.j.dumont at gmail.com (Brian J Dumont) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 11:07:56 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Happy Easter In-Reply-To: <20120408121942.184480@gmx.net> References: <5a8fdab4-cc11-455f-abbc-42c320337105@email.android.com> <20120408121942.184480@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Apr 8, 2012 8:20 AM, "Peter von Kaehne" wrote: > > > > Von: "scribe777 at gmail.com" > > > Happy Easter my friends and co-laborers in the Lord. He is risen! > > He is risen, indeed! Alleluia! Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From teusjannette at gmail.com Sun Apr 8 23:57:27 2012 From: teusjannette at gmail.com (Teus Benschop) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:57:27 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Happy Easter In-Reply-To: References: <5a8fdab4-cc11-455f-abbc-42c320337105@email.android.com> <20120408121942.184480@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4F828857.3080900@gmail.com> >> > Happy Easter my friends and co-laborers in the Lord. He is risen! >> >> He is risen, indeed! > Alleluia! Amen, he is risen. He has been declared to be the Son of God with power through his resurrection from the dead ones. Teus. From just_mike_y at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 07:01:27 2012 From: just_mike_y at yahoo.com (Mike Hart) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 07:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> The Crosswire Bible Society is about getting e-bible?s to the ends of the earth at zero cost. While the sword project is one of the legs of Crosswire, it is not the only one.? Go-Bible (and formerly some palm apps) do fall into the umbrella of crosswire but not under sword.? Crosswire has an opportunity to grow exponentially. I surmise that the statement ?modules are part of the Sword Project? is all about pieces of paper with signatures on them by rights holders of texts (or similar papers affirming no IP is infringed for public domain texts.)? That is, the rights requested and received to date have been about sword project and not Crosswire.? I see this as a very limiting activity.? Crosswire is so much bigger than the original windows program now, and to say that the modules are only sword project compatible but you ?may? get them to work with this other program..... Rights contracts could easily and should be negotiated under the umbrella of Crosswire and not just Sword, because it is a far bigger umbrella.? For example, it would be a wonderful thing to see some Crosswire texts come out in kindle format.? Yes a Kindle Fire can display Sword modules fine now, but the Kindle Keyboard is a perfectly capable bible reader but remains untouched by the sword project.? also missed by the sword project is? the e-ink nook, and Kobo Readers.?? You can get some form of bible reader onto each of these, but there are opportunities with each to make the experience better.? Given the developer support of these devices (lawyers waiting to CND you), I don?t think that there will be any early opportunities to do this under the sword umbrella, unless sword makes an OSIS2EPUB script available. However, if even SOME modules could be separated from the sword project and released in alternate forms, the number of compatible devices suddenly doubles, the cost is cut by 80%, and battery life is extended by 20-40times. Consider a missionary in Tibet.?? A village has a solar panel that just about keeps up with the 30 lightbulbs in town.? Would they want an e-ink tablet, that would take 1 light bulb left off 1 day every 3 weeks to charge, or a ipad that would take all the lightbulbs in town, all the time? There are still many oportunities to distribute scripture that are being missed because some pieces of paper are thought to be carved in stone. Please, think again about keeping modules locked up in sword format only. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 07:10:33 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 10:10:33 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org>

Message-ID: Thanks again for the links. The wiki is a real resource! I did have success with: %xmllint --noout --schema osisCore.2.1.1.xsd kjv.xml (where the kjv.xml came from Troy's kjvxml.zip file). I take it the kjv.xml and the other .xml files in the kvjxml.zip are templates? On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: >> @ Troy, thanks for the .zip file. ?I'm more interested in trying to >> figure out how to create modules than a specific module. ?My plan is >> try checking some of the stock modules. ?Writing a test module, >> validate it, eliminate errors .... so on. >> >> @ Mat?j, I wasn't having much success with --schema either. ?Even so, >> I downloaded a copy osisCore.2.1.1.xsd and the example you gave, >> worked (thanks). >> >> Is there a way to generate a .osis file from the stock modules without >> using mod2osis? ?Using mod2osis seems to generate tons of errors with >> xmllint (presumably because the schema isn't supported). > > mod2osis does not generate valid OSIS. This is a known and > acknowledged problem and is not going to be fixed. > > --Greg > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 07:19:09 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 10:19:09 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Happy Easter In-Reply-To: <4F828857.3080900@gmail.com> References: <5a8fdab4-cc11-455f-abbc-42c320337105@email.android.com> <20120408121942.184480@gmx.net> <4F828857.3080900@gmail.com> Message-ID: Death is broken! On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 2:57 AM, Teus Benschop wrote: >>> > Happy Easter my friends and co-laborers in the Lord. He is risen! >>> >>> He is risen, indeed! >> Alleluia! > Amen, he is risen. He has been declared to be the Son of God with power > through his resurrection from the dead ones. Teus. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From dfhmch at googlemail.com Mon Apr 9 07:38:35 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 07:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1333982315398-4542919.post@n4.nabble.com> Thanks Mike, There are separate conf entries for the two kinds of Distribution License. See http://crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:conf_Files#Copyright_.26_Licensing_related_elements The relevant ones are: Copyrighted; Permission to distribute granted to CrossWire Copyrighted; Permission granted to distribute non-commercially in SWORD format I'm fairly sure that the former types of module vastly outnumber the latter. The scripties among us could easily generate the statistics. For the former, Troy sees no hindrance to including Go Bible applications under the same "umbrella". For those fewer modules that do use the latter, where the DL is more restrictive, we'd expect to have to renegotiate permissions in order to distribute a Go Bible edition. In the above, I'm just citing Go Bible as one example of a non-SWORD based application. Were we to extend our product portfolio to include Kindle apps and/or apps for other e-Book readers, I think it's safe to assume that the same criteria would apply. You are right in how you prefaced your post. It is all about getting e-bibles to the ends of the earth at zero cost. Crosswire has an opportunity to grow exponentially. That will not be without its own challenges. cf. Our friends who work in YouVersion have faced massive challenges entirely due to rapid growth. I recently attended a conference in Germany in connection with digital scripture publishing. I was invited specifically to represent CrossWire and Go Bible. More of this later, when I've had time to digest and report what I learned in more detail. Meanwhile, everyone - please pray about these significant opportunities. Yours in Christ's service, David Haslam Go Bible project leader -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-support-Video-tutorials-tp4528871p4542919.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Mon Apr 9 07:48:33 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 07:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: References: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org>

Message-ID: <1333982913202-4542949.post@n4.nabble.com> Andrew, The file kjv.xml (from kjvxml.zip) is indeed what was used to make the KJV modules (v2.3 in Main, and v2.4 in Beta). For further imporvement work being done or considered for the KJV source text (since 2006), see also http://crosswire.org/wiki/User:Dmsmith/KJV2011 DMSmith is the main 'pumpkin holder'. As he's giving priority to adding av11n capability to JSword (and Bible Desktop), the implementation of such minor improvements to the KJV source text has been delayed. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xmllint-the-OSIS-standard-tp4524601p4542949.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 08:53:20 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:53:20 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Module Repository Mirrors (aside from the main repositories)? Message-ID: The module repositories are listed here: http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Module_Repositories Are there any mirror sites for the module repositories listed above (CrossWire Main, CrossWire Beta, CrossWire av11n, CrossWire attic, Xiphos etc)? If not, would there be any interest (if someone were to offer to host and run a mirror at no cost)? ~Andrew From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 08:56:13 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:56:13 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] xmllint & the OSIS standard In-Reply-To: <1333982913202-4542949.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4F78DC50.7020608@crosswire.org>

<1333982913202-4542949.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the link. This will be interesting once it gets up and running (integration of apocrypha, for example, would be interesting. Sorry if my questions have been asked before. I'm new to the list and find it difficult to easily search the archives. ~Andrew On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 10:48 AM, David Haslam wrote: > Andrew, > > The file kjv.xml (from kjvxml.zip) is indeed what was used to make the KJV > modules (v2.3 in Main, and v2.4 in Beta). > > For further imporvement work being done or considered for the KJV source > text (since 2006), see also > http://crosswire.org/wiki/User:Dmsmith/KJV2011 > > DMSmith is the main 'pumpkin holder'. > As he's giving priority to adding av11n capability to JSword (and Bible > Desktop), > the implementation of such minor improvements to the KJV source text has > been delayed. > > David > > -- > View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/xmllint-the-OSIS-standard-tp4524601p4542949.html > Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From just_mike_y at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 11:07:54 2012 From: just_mike_y at yahoo.com (Mike Hart) Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Social Media and Crosswire Message-ID: <1333994874.46218.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Last year there was some discussion about Crosswire and Sword opportunities in social media. That discussion has produced some alpha tests of new applications, and I look forward to more. In the last week or so I had a basic epiphany about social media that is really below much discussion, except for the fact that the pieces are all present on Crosswire, but not quite put together. The epiphany about social media is: ------ The core of all social media is plain simple URL's. ------ That is, our ability to share images, music, interests, news, ideas is at it's core the ability to share URL's. What makes youtube so widely quoted in social media is that their links are open. I might just as easily share music from archive.org if they had a plain URL that would autostart the player. Archive.org doesn't autostart by default (you can hack to do it, but it isn't easy), so I don't share links from there very often. ------ Bring it home to Crosswire:? Crosswire is not more widely quoted in social venues because the URL's for sharing information aren't readily available.? Specific examples: 1. Last year I mentioned in some forum that the web biblestudy app is easily hacked to be an open linking system, but it isn't simply a copy or drag the address bar to your social venue.?? As a result, I will use more readily available URL's (bible.cc and biblegateway.com) because they ARE copy/paste.? I can hack the crosswire website URL easily enough, but it takes time, and time is not abundant in my world. I (and others) would link to the Crosswire Web Bible Study more often if it were a matter of navigating to the passage of interest and then copying the URL at the top of the screen. Linking drives awareness drives interest drives adoption drives success.? 2. There are many times I'd like to refer to the crosswire forum or developer's email.? On some occasions I cut/paste text or the object (URL) of interest from an email and put it onto social sites. Crosswire gets no real word of mouth advertising this way.? The forum is locked up behind a login (try linking while logged in then pasting when not logged in) and the email list has an archive method on nabble (with open URL's), but it's not easy to find it, since the only notices I get about nabble are mentions in passing from David Haslam when he refers to it.? Putting a link to it on the web or at least in? the monthly reminder email would make locating the nabble site much easier. That is, I would love to share some of the more general sword developer topics socially (advertising the community as well as individual topics,) but the means to do so is largely hidden.? There are more opportunities like this on the site. :-)? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Mon Apr 9 19:17:47 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 19:17:47 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> Some corrections, small & large... On 4/9/2012 7:01 AM, Mike Hart wrote: > ... (and formerly some palm > apps) CrossWire has never been involved in any palm apps. We link to a couple of Palm apps precisely because we don't have a Sword offering for Palm. (By Palm apps, I mean and I take you to mean PalmOS. BibleZ HD for WebOS does use The SWORD Project). > I surmise that the statement ?modules are part of the Sword Project? is > all about pieces of paper with signatures on them by rights holders of > texts (or similar papers affirming no IP is infringed for public domain > texts.) That is, the rights requested and received to date have been > about sword project and not Crosswire. I see this as a very limiting > activity. Crosswire is so much bigger than the original windows program > now, and to say that the modules are only sword project compatible but > you ?may? get them to work with this other program..... David Haslam covered the difference between CrossWire-distributed licensing and Sword-format licensing, both of which are options we offer to rights holders. But that has very literally nothing to do with what I said or David's comment to which I was responding. David's proposal was that http://crosswire.org/sword/modules/ be moved to http://crosswire.org/modules/. This address has Sword modules, so it should be under the Sword banner. It doesn't have Go Bible content. It doesn't in any way pertain specifically to The SWORD Project for Windows. Sword modules work in programs based on The SWORD Project, we make no statements that they 'may' work in other software, except perhaps that they 'may' work in JSword-based software since it is usually slightly lagging relative to The SWORD Project (the C library). Sword modules don't work in Go Bible. They don't work in Flashcards. And every other CrossWire project I can think of falls under the umbrella of The SWORD Project. Accordingly, we shouldn't move the Sword modules address to the CrossWire page, since they aren't CrossWire modules generically, they're Sword modules specifically. > Rights contracts could easily and should be negotiated under the > umbrella of Crosswire and not just Sword, because it is a far bigger > umbrella. For example, it would be a wonderful thing to see some > Crosswire texts come out in kindle format. Yes a Kindle Fire can display > Sword modules fine now, but the Kindle Keyboard is a perfectly capable > bible reader but remains untouched by the sword project. also missed by > the sword project is the e-ink nook, and Kobo Readers. You can get some > form of bible reader onto each of these, but there are opportunities > with each to make the experience better. Given the developer support of > these devices (lawyers waiting to CND you), I don?t think that there > will be any early opportunities to do this under the sword umbrella, > unless sword makes an OSIS2EPUB script available. However, if even SOME > modules could be separated from the sword project and released in > alternate forms, the number of compatible devices suddenly doubles, the > cost is cut by 80%, and battery life is extended by 20-40times. Consider > a missionary in Tibet. A village has a solar panel that just about keeps > up with the 30 lightbulbs in town. Would they want an e-ink tablet, that > would take 1 light bulb left off 1 day every 3 weeks to charge, or a > ipad that would take all the lightbulbs in town, all the time? > > There are still many oportunities to distribute scripture that are being > missed because some pieces of paper are thought to be carved in stone. > > Please, think again about keeping modules locked up in sword format only. TEI to LaTeX/PDF and EPUB (and accordingly MOBI, via Calibre) is trivial to do. Last semester I produced most of my course's readings in PDF, EPUB, & MOBI, from TEI P5 master documents so that students could use the reader of their choice. OSIS is /mostly/ just TEI, so you could either adjust the standard TEI XSLTs to take OSIS instead or convert the OSIS to TEI and use the stock TEI XSLTs themselves. Most of your argument is against straw men, though. Absolutely no one has suggested that we ignore ebook formats, ebook readers, or seeking rights that allow us to distribute on the full gamut of our supported distribution platforms. --Chris From just_mike_y at yahoo.com Tue Apr 10 06:01:36 2012 From: just_mike_y at yahoo.com (Mike Hart) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 06:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > CrossWire has never been involved in any palm apps. http://web.archive.org/web/20040202044710/http://www.crosswire.org/crosswire/index.jsp I used a handspring visor. I've seen related posts about this, and I'm always a little confused why people would seek to change history.? Did you mean Palm has never been supported by 'the sword project'?? Again, we're talking about big and little umbrellas.? And this is exactly what my appeal is about.? Crosswire is BIGGER than sword. a module repository should look like a bookstore, with each available app listed under each version of text.? You want Croatian?? Great, we got you covered on J2ME, iphone, windows 8, linux, Kindle, Ford's Fuse(whatever they call their car OS thing,) etc.? Readers, Missionaries, don't want to chose a platform first then hope their chosen text is present.? They know what text they want and besides the #1 problem 'We don't have NIV', we should help them find what they're looking for. ____________________ > TEI to LaTeX/PDF and EPUB (and accordingly MOBI, via Calibre) is trivial to do. Last semester I produced most of my course's readings in PDF, EPUB, & MOBI, from TEI P5 master documents so that students could use the reader of their choice. OSIS is /mostly/ just TEI, so you could either adjust the standard TEI XSLTs to take OSIS instead or convert the OSIS to TEI and use the stock TEI XSLTs themselves. ____________________ I completely agree that for anyone on this list, getting any text onto an e-reader is trivial. However,? 99.9% of the world does not have that knowledge, and getting homework, or Bible texts, onto a Kobo e-ink slate is beyond their competence. Which is why, again, Crosswire should be so much more than sword.? Things that are too easy to worry about here are unknown or impossible for someone who knows 5 people using a kindle e-ink device that speak Chinese, leaving for the homeland in 2 weeks, and the discussion about Christ got to a point they would consider transporting a ZH text back with them.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scribe at crosswire.org Tue Apr 10 07:30:45 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 16:30:45 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F844415.7010609@crosswire.org> Dear Mike, Thank you for the insights and encouragement to target a wider audience. I believe there are a few misunderstandings in your email, but also many good suggestions. 1) CrossWire does not house any authoritative texts, save the KJV2003/6 text. The module repository we do house is a SWORD module repository gathered from many many diverse sites from all over the internet. None of these modules should be seen at an authoritative source for that work. I believe we do a good job preserving most all data from the authoritative sources, but data conversion is almost certainly always lossy. 2) The SWORD project is a module data format, a programming API and engine to read that format which runs on many many platforms, and various frontends which use that engine, giving them automatic access to the library of materials. This is our primary focus at CrossWire. The original curators/publisher/rights managers of texts, from whom we build our library, are best suited to provide a quality book in the various formats you suggest. (see below for more info on this) 3) Although from the archive.org version of our site which your cite, you'd not know it until clicking the link. Palm Bible+ was never a CrossWire project. I remember that snippet mentioning this, but maybe it was before or after the dated version to which you link. We never published (though we did experiment with) a PalmOS Bible reader app. Palm Bible Plus had done a good job and was opensource and there was no reason to duplicate their work, so we simply referred people to their project. 4) As David and Chris have pointed out, we do our best to negotiate rights for CrossWire and not simply SWORD format. Though this is tricky. If a publisher gives CrossWire rights to distribute, that alone doesn't give a 2nd party rights to re-distribute. If a publisher gives rights to distribute as a SWORD modules (without mention of CrossWire specifically), that gives 2nd party rights to re-distribute (of course, unless specifically prohibited or other wording suggests differently). Asking a publisher to allow CrossWire to create any format for their text and also asking for us to pass on re-distribution rights, basically is asking a publisher to grant permission for anyone to distribute their text in any format. And, as much as I would like this, it might be a hard sell. We try not to get specific about data formats when asking for permission. When asked, we usually refer to Go Bible and mention how very small devices sometimes require a data format shift. So far, this hasn't rocked the boat. Mentioning that we'd also like to distribute in epub and the various other formats you mention would almost certainly rock the boat. Chris' statement that modules are part of The SWORD Project is important because it keeps #1 above highlighted to others, that we get our data from other sources; we are not an authoritative data source for these texts. But what we do is convert lots and lots of data to a regularized format (many will say not regular enough and others will say much too regular!) that we call The SWORD Project (#2 above). Having said all this, The SWORD Project engine was designed from the ground up to work on different data formats and markup, and output different formats and markup. We have filter sets which transform between a number of formats including OSIS, GBF, ThML, -> HTML, XHTML, RTF. We have always had the plan to build a filter set for outputting Go Bible modules, and building a filter set for these other platforms wouldn't be an overwhelming task. As I stated above, the best source for producing books in these formats would be the original data maintainers, but for a majority of our modules, this probably will never happen. Many publishers would also never agree to such a thing for us to produce. However, as you state, "SOME modules" in our library are in the public domain or provided by Bible translation organizations who would love for this functionality to be possible; hence, your suggestion is well noted. This work would still be under the banner of The SWORD Project as it would be an output extension to the engine. We would not maintain an additional module repository in an alternate format. So, how's your C++? Troy On 04/10/2012 03:01 PM, Mike Hart wrote: > > CrossWire has never been involved in any palm apps. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20040202044710/http://www.crosswire.org/crosswire/index.jsp > > I used a handspring visor. I've seen related posts about this, and I'm > always a little confused why people would seek to change history. Did > you mean Palm has never been supported by 'the sword project'? Again, > we're talking about big and little umbrellas. > > And this is exactly what my appeal is about. Crosswire is BIGGER than > sword. a module repository should look like a bookstore, with each > available app listed under each version of text. You want Croatian? > Great, we got you covered on J2ME, iphone, windows 8, linux, Kindle, > Ford's Fuse(whatever they call their car OS thing,) etc. Readers, > Missionaries, don't want to chose a platform first then hope their > chosen text is present. They know what text they want and besides the #1 > problem 'We don't have NIV', we should help them find what they're > looking for. > > ____________________ > > > TEI to LaTeX/PDF and EPUB (and accordingly MOBI, via Calibre) is > trivial to do. Last semester I produced most of my course's readings in > PDF, EPUB, & MOBI, from TEI P5 master documents so that students could > use the reader of their choice. OSIS is /mostly/ just TEI, so you could > either adjust the standard TEI XSLTs to take OSIS instead or convert the > OSIS to TEI and use the stock TEI XSLTs themselves. > > ____________________ > > I completely agree that for anyone on this list, getting any text onto > an e-reader is trivial. However, 99.9% of the world does not have that > knowledge, and getting homework, or Bible texts, onto a Kobo e-ink slate > is beyond their competence. Which is why, again, Crosswire should be so > much more than sword. Things that are too easy to worry about here are > unknown or impossible for someone who knows 5 people using a kindle > e-ink device that speak Chinese, leaving for the homeland in 2 weeks, > and the discussion about Christ got to a point they would consider > transporting a ZH text back with them. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From jhphx at cox.net Tue Apr 10 07:33:50 2012 From: jhphx at cox.net (jhphx) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 07:33:50 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F8444CE.5090409@cox.net> On 4/10/2012 6:01 AM, Mike Hart wrote: > > I completely agree that for anyone on this list, getting any text onto > an e-reader is trivial. However, 99.9% of the world does not have > that knowledge, and getting homework, or Bible texts, onto a Kobo > e-ink slate is beyond their competence. Which is why, again, Crosswire > should be so much more than sword. Things that are too easy to worry > about here are unknown or impossible for someone who knows 5 people > using a kindle e-ink device that speak Chinese, leaving for the > homeland in 2 weeks, and the discussion about Christ got to a point > they would consider transporting a ZH text back with them. A lot of people can't use anything until it shows up in their start menu. Even if they could download a file they would not know where to find the directory with the file that was downloaded. I used to support texts for downloading that were in TXT and DOC formats. It was amazing how many people couldn't figure out what to do with them once they downloaded them. That was in the DOS days but I still deal with people that don't have a clue. There is only so much that can be done in this regard. I like the idea of getting a program on the start menu which will lead them to the modules on their computers and on the net without them having to worry about what the web sites look like. Of course they still have to be able to get that program on the start menu. The job of presenting modules for downloading then goes to the front end developers. The alternative is to be something like CCEL.org. CCEL is a text library. To my knowledge Crosswire is not a text library. It is a software and software module library. A distinction that the end user should not have to be much concerned about, but that does not mean it works for people not using supported software or devices. Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thulester at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 08:15:27 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 11:15:27 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <4F8444CE.5090409@cox.net> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8444CE.5090409@cox.net> Message-ID: (Relatively new to the list, so perhaps I shouldn't comment) I see both perspectives being presented here and agree with both whole heartedly. I don't think they are mutually incompatible. It is true Crosswire should be so much more than sword, that the goal of getting the bible into the hands of many should not be limited to sword, but the argument being made (as I understand it) isn't that efforts should concentrate on one technology at the expense of another, or that the site should cater to one over others, rather the argument is one about usage, navigability, and perhaps branding. Before joining this list, I came to Crosswire frequently - specifically for the purpose of obtaining modules; seeing what other 'Sword' projects were on the go, etc. I was personally aware that Crosswire's focus was beyond 'Sword' but that's not what drew me in (I represent the typical European/N. American middle class consumer however). What drew me in was 'Sword'. However, even if Sword is not the sole purpose of Crosswire, I expect it accounts for much of the traffic. So this is, in part, also about ease of navigability, and branding, more than about selective effort. (I'd bet an analysis of the sites AWSTATs would show that Sword accounts for much of the sites profiles, and that certainly is my experience). Assuming there is general agreement that Crosswire != Sword what is the 'return on investment' for preserving the differentiation between Crosswire/Sword, or being dogmatic about differentiating? Perhaps that isn't even the correct question: is there some way to give the sword component more exposure without subsuming the non-Sword bits of Crosswire? The request to give sword modules greater exposure is valid if the underlying concern is simply to make that part which (may) receive the lions share of effort, and which (may) accounts for the lion's share of traffic, more accessible with a stronger brand. This should be achievable without seeming to jeopardize the complete mission of Crosswire. ~Andrew On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 10:33 AM, jhphx wrote: > On 4/10/2012 6:01 AM, Mike Hart wrote: > > > I completely agree that for anyone on this list, getting any text onto > an e-reader is trivial. However, 99.9% of the world does not have that > knowledge, and getting homework, or Bible texts, onto a Kobo e-ink slate is > beyond their competence. Which is why, again, Crosswire should be so much > more than sword. Things that are too easy to worry about here are unknown > or impossible for someone who knows 5 people using a kindle e-ink device > that speak Chinese, leaving for the homeland in 2 weeks, and the discussion > about Christ got to a point they would consider transporting a ZH text back > with them. > > > A lot of people can't use anything until it shows up in their start menu. > Even if they could download a file they would not know where to find the > directory with the file that was downloaded. I used to support texts for > downloading that were in TXT and DOC formats. It was amazing how many > people couldn't figure out what to do with them once they downloaded them. > That was in the DOS days but I still deal with people that don't have a > clue. There is only so much that can be done in this regard. > > I like the idea of getting a program on the start menu which will lead > them to the modules on their computers and on the net without them having > to worry about what the web sites look like. Of course they still have to > be able to get that program on the start menu. The job of presenting > modules for downloading then goes to the front end developers. The > alternative is to be something like CCEL.org. CCEL is a text library. To my > knowledge Crosswire is not a text library. It is a software and software > module library. A distinction that the end user should not have to be much > concerned about, but that does not mean it works for people not using > supported software or devices. > > Jerry > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Wed Apr 11 13:46:17 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 06:46:17 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Improvements to osis2mod to handle XML comments and

correctly In-Reply-To: References: <2307265.7YcXKpRcxu@antares> Message-ID: <7335733.P49vURWRfq@antares> Hi, A couple of weeks ago (on 24th March, to be precise), DM Smith wrote: > > I wrote to this list about two years ago (4th February, 2010, to be > > precise) with a couple of suggestions and a patch for the SWORD > > library. > > > > Unfortunately, the patch I suggested was not applied (an oversight, I'm > > sure), and I've been way too busy with other things to chase it up... > > until now. > > I'm sorry that the request fell off my todo list. Thank you for your > patch. Thank you for applying the patch! I may have more in the pipeline... :-) John -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Wed Apr 11 13:54:35 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 06:54:35 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Please link to the Crosswire/SWORD wiki Message-ID: <1698208.FcNJIGWBO7@antares> Hi, everyone, A relatively small point about the Crosswire/SWORD website: could you please place a link to the Crosswire wiki (http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Main_Page) from AT LEAST one of the following pages (in order of preference): - the SWORD developers page (http://www.crosswire.org/sword/develop/) - the SWORD home page (http://www.crosswire.org/sword/) - the Crosswire home page (http://www.crosswire.org/) There is a LOT of useful material on the wiki, but, as far as I can see, there is not a single link to it that I could find---I only came across it by accident, after a Google search on a related topic. Yours truly, John Zaitseff -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From bdrake at crosswire.org Wed Apr 11 14:06:10 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:06:10 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Please link to the Crosswire/SWORD wiki In-Reply-To: <1698208.FcNJIGWBO7@antares> References: <1698208.FcNJIGWBO7@antares> Message-ID: <4F85F242.5090203@crosswire.org> On 11/04/12 21:54, John Zaitseff wrote: > A relatively small point about the Crosswire/SWORD website: could you please > place a link to the Crosswire wiki (http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Main_Page) > from AT LEAST one of the following pages (in order of preference) Oh yes please! Some years ago I had a little input to these pages. I'd almost forgotten. They have come along a great deal in that time and they are probably the most useful resource we now have. Pleas unhide them ASAP. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From greg.hellings at gmail.com Wed Apr 11 14:12:31 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:12:31 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Please link to the Crosswire/SWORD wiki In-Reply-To: References: <1698208.FcNJIGWBO7@antares> <4F85F242.5090203@crosswire.org> Message-ID: This shortcoming has been raised several times. I will, again, add my voice to those requesting it be amended. On Apr 11, 2012 4:07 PM, "Barry Drake" wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Wed Apr 11 15:11:15 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:11:15 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module Message-ID: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> Hi, I have some questions about the WEB (World English Bible) module in the SWORD repository: 1. Who is the maintainer of this module? The conf file does not list anyone: it just lists the upstream source (www.ebible.org). 2. Is that maintainer planning an update of the module? I notice the current upstream release was dated 5th April, 2012, just a few days ago. 3. Does that maintainer release the finished OSIS text somewhere, or does he or she simply use usfm2osis.pl (since the upstream WEB is in USFM format)? If so, where is that OSIS file? 4. If the answer to (1) is Unknown, or the answer to (2) is No, would there be objections to doing the work myself, with the results released to the SWORD module repository? 5. I note from the Wiki that usfm2osis.pl has limitations and/or bugs. I also see (from the sword-tools Subversion repository logs) that usfm2osis.pl is currently being maintained by one chrislit. Who is that? If I manage to rework the script to eliminate the limitations, will my patches be accepted? I have looked around the Wiki and elsewhere on the 'net, and could not find the answers to the above questions. Hopefully, someone may be able to help. Thanks in advance! Yours truly, John Zaitseff -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From kahunapule at mpj.cx Wed Apr 11 15:55:58 2012 From: kahunapule at mpj.cx (Kahunapule Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:55:58 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> Message-ID: <4F860BFE.40500@mpj.cx> Hello, John! Thank you for your interest in the World English Bible modules. :-) I'm not the Sword module maintainer, but I am the "upstream source" for those (WEB, WEB:ME, and WEBBE) and over 300 other potential modules, all of which have master copies in USFM. I'm planning to build some conversions into Haiola (http://haiola.org) to create a suitable input for osis2mod. How is your C#? The conversion for the WEB modules will need to be done many times, since it is being edited, and the language updated in the Old Testament. (Occasional edits are still accepted in the New Testament, but are more rare.) Likewise, many of the other minority-language texts I have access to are under construction (i. e. maybe only one book of the Bible is done, so far, but more are coming, a book at a time). Therefore, I crave something more reliable and automatic than the current process. I would welcome help. I can't speak for the official Sword repository, but I can speak for Haiola... On 04/11/2012 12:11 PM, John Zaitseff wrote: > Hi, > > I have some questions about the WEB (World English Bible) module in the > SWORD repository: > > 1. Who is the maintainer of this module? The conf file does not list > anyone: it just lists the upstream source (www.ebible.org). > > 2. Is that maintainer planning an update of the module? I notice the > current upstream release was dated 5th April, 2012, just a few days ago. > > 3. Does that maintainer release the finished OSIS text somewhere, or does he > or she simply use usfm2osis.pl (since the upstream WEB is in USFM > format)? If so, where is that OSIS file? > > 4. If the answer to (1) is Unknown, or the answer to (2) is No, would there > be objections to doing the work myself, with the results released to the > SWORD module repository? > > 5. I note from the Wiki that usfm2osis.pl has limitations and/or bugs. I > also see (from the sword-tools Subversion repository logs) that > usfm2osis.pl is currently being maintained by one chrislit. Who is that? > If I manage to rework the script to eliminate the limitations, will my > patches be accepted? > > I have looked around the Wiki and elsewhere on the 'net, and could not find > the answers to the above questions. Hopefully, someone may be able to help. > Thanks in advance! > > Yours truly, > > John Zaitseff > From chrislit at crosswire.org Wed Apr 11 16:05:46 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:05:46 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> Message-ID: <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> On 4/11/2012 3:11 PM, John Zaitseff wrote: > Hi, > > I have some questions about the WEB (World English Bible) module in the > SWORD repository: > > 1. Who is the maintainer of this module? The conf file does not list > anyone: it just lists the upstream source (www.ebible.org). I maintain the WEB and associated translations modules. > 2. Is that maintainer planning an update of the module? I notice the > current upstream release was dated 5th April, 2012, just a few days ago. In the near future, we'll have automatic updates of the WEB and certain other modules. But for the moment it is a manual process. Do you know there to be meaningful updates to the text in the most recent revision(s)--meaningful meaning not changes to spaces or minor markup and not changes to the Apocrypha (since we don't support them in the current WEB module anyway)? > 3. Does that maintainer release the finished OSIS text somewhere, or does he > or she simply use usfm2osis.pl (since the upstream WEB is in USFM > format)? If so, where is that OSIS file? I use usfm2osis.pl. > 4. If the answer to (1) is Unknown, or the answer to (2) is No, would there > be objections to doing the work myself, with the results released to the > SWORD module repository? Not that the offer is not appreciated, but it would save me literally no work to have someone else download the files and run usfm2osis.pl. :) > 5. I note from the Wiki that usfm2osis.pl has limitations and/or bugs. I > also see (from the sword-tools Subversion repository logs) that > usfm2osis.pl is currently being maintained by one chrislit. Who is that? > If I manage to rework the script to eliminate the limitations, will my > patches be accepted? I'm not the only maintainer of usfm2osis.pl, since there are half a dozen people doing minor maintenance on the program, but I'm the original author, so maybe any architectural faults can be attributed to me. One of the biggest problems with usfm2osis.pl is that it was not originally written for USFM and it grows piecemeal to target USFM input. If you "rework" the script, I can probably safely say that your patches will not be accepted. If you submit patches to address specific shortcomings or bugs, there is a good chance that they will be committed. If you can be more specific about what you propose to do, someone on the list can probably identify how useful it would be. One of my personal Summer projects will be to write a USFM to OSIS converter from scratch, but for that I won't be touching the usfm2osis.pl codebase. Given how much we use usfm2osis.pl and how well it does its job, we really can't have big changes to the existing code that cause regressions in functionality. (Abundant unit & regression tests will be a feature of the re-written converter, but for now, we have essentially nothing to identify when changes to the code have unintended consequences--aside from diff maybe.) --Chris From chrislit at crosswire.org Wed Apr 11 16:51:10 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:51:10 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Websites In-Reply-To: <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> On 4/10/2012 6:01 AM, Mike Hart wrote: > > CrossWire has never been involved in any palm apps. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20040202044710/http://www.crosswire.org/crosswire/index.jsp > > I used a handspring visor. I've seen related posts about this, and I'm > always a little confused why people would seek to change history. Did > you mean Palm has never been supported by 'the sword project'? Again, > we're talking about big and little umbrellas. In my statement, I was precise and accurate. CrossWire has no association with PalmBible+ or UniBible other than linking to their websites. (To be complete, PalmBible+ may and UniBible does use some of our content after exporting it, but that wasn't done with our foreknowledge.) We link to them because they provide GPL Bible software for a platform that we don't otherwise support and have no intention of supporting via Sword or any other CrossWire project. I'm not seeking to change history, as you suggest, just remembering it correctly. I really don't understand why you have linked to an Internet Archive page, either. We link to both PalmBible+ and UniBible on our live webpage: http://crosswire.org/applications.jsp?section=Handhelds Realize that all of the above means that we have no control over modules used by PalmBible+ or UniBible, and we provide no content compatible with either of these programs. > And this is exactly what my appeal is about. Crosswire is BIGGER than > sword. a module repository should look like a bookstore, with each > available app listed under each version of text. You want Croatian? > Great, we got you covered on J2ME, iphone, windows 8, linux, Kindle, > Ford's Fuse(whatever they call their car OS thing,) etc. Readers, > Missionaries, don't want to chose a platform first then hope their > chosen text is present. They know what text they want and besides the #1 > problem 'We don't have NIV', we should help them find what they're > looking for. I can only assume that you don't quite understand how publishing rights work. We're extremely lucky to be working in a particular sector of publishing where profits aren't the only objective of every rights holder. Some rights holders, indeed a great many of the rights holders we work with, are very liberal with the rights they grant us or even have no particular interest other than seeing their works maximally distributed. And we're lucky enough to work with a lot of worthwhile public domain material, as well. In most cases, we should be very thankful to be able to distribute texts to all Sword front ends or even those plus Go Bible. Commercial publishers ordinarily would like more control over which platforms see their works, so it's not uncommon to see different rights and different prices applied to works distributed for different platforms. Within minor, mostly temporary exceptions, most of our upstream providers allow us to distribute their works to a wide array of platforms, usually free. However, there will always be exceptions. There are legacy exceptions, since there was once a time when Go Bible was not under the fold of CrossWire, so we weren't pursuing rights to distribute in Go Bible's format. I imagine any rights holder who wished to sell a work would not be willing to distribute for Go Bible, since I don't believe it supports text unlocking. And there might be other reasons why a publisher would specifically wish to disallow distribution to a particular platform or front end. I think your assessment of the user's objective when viewing module offerings is completely wrong, given that it will never be the case that we can actually offer every work on every platform. Users are concerned with what is available to them for the software they are using, not what is available to other people on platforms they aren't using. > ____________________ > > > TEI to LaTeX/PDF and EPUB (and accordingly MOBI, via Calibre) is > trivial to do. Last semester I produced most of my course's readings in > PDF, EPUB, & MOBI, from TEI P5 master documents so that students could > use the reader of their choice. OSIS is /mostly/ just TEI, so you could > either adjust the standard TEI XSLTs to take OSIS instead or convert the > OSIS to TEI and use the stock TEI XSLTs themselves. > > ____________________ > > I completely agree that for anyone on this list, getting any text onto > an e-reader is trivial. However, 99.9% of the world does not have that > knowledge, and getting homework, or Bible texts, onto a Kobo e-ink slate > is beyond their competence. Which is why, again, Crosswire should be so > much more than sword. Things that are too easy to worry about here are > unknown or impossible for someone who knows 5 people using a kindle > e-ink device that speak Chinese, leaving for the homeland in 2 weeks, > and the discussion about Christ got to a point they would consider > transporting a ZH text back with them. I didn't write that on The SWORD Project news page. We don't publish OSIS docs, the KJV notwithstanding, so those are obviously not instructions for end users. If targeting ebook readers is important to you, the write the necessary XSLTs. --Chris From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Wed Apr 11 16:52:57 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:52:57 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <4F860BFE.40500@mpj.cx> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860BFE.40500@mpj.cx> Message-ID: <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> Hello! > I'm planning to build some conversions into Haiola (http://haiola.org) to > create a suitable input for osis2mod. How is your C#? I've never programmed in it, being a C/C++/Perl/Python/Shell/Delphi/Asm/... man myself :-) In any case, I'd much prefer a command-line tool that can be scripted (ie, called from a Makefile, etc). Perl or Python would be ideal for the job. > I'm not the Sword module maintainer, but I am the "upstream source" for > those (WEB, WEB:ME, and WEBBE). Now that I have the ear of the upstream maintainer, may I point out a couple of things? 1. On your web page http://www.ebible.org/web/, the websword.zip link is broken. 2. Do you provide an archive somewhere of the old versions of the source code? Alternatively, do you have a publicly-readable source code repository (such as Subversion)? The reason for Question 2 is that it would be nice to see what has changed from release to release of the source code (ie, any textual changes, formatting changes, etc.). A changelog may well be sufficient, but if you use a source code repository system, it would save you the effort of writing it by hand. Yours truly, John Zaitseff -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Wed Apr 11 17:12:28 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 10:12:28 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <2083699.dbROROUJWB@antares> Hi, Chris, Thanks for replying so quickly! > > 1. Who is the maintainer of this module? > > I maintain the WEB and associated translations modules. Should there be a wiki page somewhere to capture this information? Or perhaps a simple line in the relevant web.conf? > Do you know there to be meaningful updates to the text in the most > recent revision(s)--meaningful meaning not changes to spaces or minor > markup and not changes to the Apocrypha (since we don't support them in > the current WEB module anyway)? No, I don't know; I only have an old version from 2010, and I know there are changes from that. > I use usfm2osis.pl. I presume with manual tweaking, as described in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Converting_SFM_Bibles_to_OSIS ? If so, could you possibly send me your most recent OSIS file? The reason I'd like the OSIS file itself, as opposed to just using the SWORD module, is that I'm hoping to develop some small tools (XSLT stylesheets included) to transform OSIS to other formats. And I'd like to have some decent OSIS texts to play with, other than the KJV (that OSIS file does not use paragraphs, poetry, etc)! A related question, by the way: how well does mod2osis work when the original was an OSIS file? That is, if file.osis is processed thus: file.osis -> osis2mod -> mod2osis -> newfile.osis How close is newfile.osis to the original file.osis? > One of the biggest problems with usfm2osis.pl is that it was not > originally written for USFM and it grows piecemeal to target USFM input. I sort-of guessed that! > One of my personal Summer projects will be to write a USFM to OSIS > converter from scratch, but for that I won't be touching the > usfm2osis.pl codebase. This was precisely what I was talking about. However, summer is a long time away, especially down under in Australia! :-) A few questions: 1. What is technically wrong with the script at osis-converters (http://code.google.com/p/osis-converters/)? 2. If there ARE technical limitations with sfm2osis.pl script there, is it better to work with that than start over yet again? How amenable is that maintainer to accepting patches? Beware of the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome! I occasionally fall into the trap myself, but I _am_ trying here to work with people. Yours truly, John Zaitseff -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From kahunapule at mpj.cx Wed Apr 11 18:49:29 2012 From: kahunapule at mpj.cx (Kahunapule Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:49:29 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860BFE.40500@mpj.cx> <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> Message-ID: <4F8634A9.5080809@mpj.cx> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Wed Apr 11 19:26:57 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:26:57 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <4F8634A9.5080809@mpj.cx> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> <4F8634A9.5080809@mpj.cx> Message-ID: <3453062.IWKCTygoIM@antares> Hi, > 2. Do you provide an archive somewhere of the old versions of the source > code? Alternatively, do you have a publicly-readable source code > repository (such as Subversion)? > > Good idea. This one won't help you for anything before today, but try > http://code.google.com/p/worldenglishbible/source/checkout Excellent! It _would_ be good if all (future) updates went there. I realise the limitations of bandwidth, and am more than aware of repressive regimes, but hg (Mercurial) allows for off-the-net development followed by synchronisation once you are in friendlier climates. Of course, you know all this anyway... By the way, please forgive what may be an impertinent question, but how would I address you by first name, if that is appropriate? Would it be Kahunapule? Yours truly, John Zaitseff -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From kahunapule at mpj.cx Wed Apr 11 19:50:54 2012 From: kahunapule at mpj.cx (Kahunapule Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:50:54 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <3453062.IWKCTygoIM@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> <4F8634A9.5080809@mpj.cx> <3453062.IWKCTygoIM@antares> Message-ID: <4F86430E.4010308@mpj.cx> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mcepl at redhat.com Wed Apr 11 23:36:52 2012 From: mcepl at redhat.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWF0xJtqIENlcGw=?=) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:36:52 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860BFE.40500@mpj.cx> <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> Message-ID: <4F867804.3070806@redhat.com> On 12.4.2012 01:52, John Zaitseff wrote: > I've never programmed in it, being a C/C++/Perl/Python/Shell/Delphi/Asm/... > man myself :-) > > In any case, I'd much prefer a command-line tool that can be scripted (ie, > called from a Makefile, etc). Perl or Python would be ideal for the job. If you have your brain in the right place (it's a functional language) I had a success with XSLT with https://gitorious.org/sword/czekms-csp_bible/). Mat?j -- http://www.ceplovi.cz/matej/, Jabber: mceplceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 89EF 4BC6 288A BF43 1BAB 25C3 E09F EF25 D964 84AC Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. -- Dan Stanford From J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au Thu Apr 12 00:39:34 2012 From: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au (John Zaitseff) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:39:34 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <4F867804.3070806@redhat.com> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <7102269.OjlDQ2EZxO@antares> <4F867804.3070806@redhat.com> Message-ID: <3130151.HlQThDTgRc@antares> Hi, Mat?j, > > In any case, I'd much prefer a command-line tool that can be scripted > > (ie, called from a Makefile, etc). Perl or Python would be ideal for > > the job. > > If you have your brain in the right place (it's a functional language) I > had a success with XSLT with https://gitorious.org/sword/czekms-csp_bible/ Yes, I know. However, I haven't learnt XSLT yet---not enough to write something in it, in any case---and I suspect Python with, say, the lxml library would be easier to write. I'll have a look at your site, though, since I could be wrong :-) John -- John Zaitseff ,--_|\ The ZAP Group Phone: +61 2 9643 7737 / \ Sydney, Australia E-mail: J.Zaitseff at zap.org.au \_,--._* http://www.zap.org.au/ v From dfhmch at googlemail.com Thu Apr 12 01:12:06 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 01:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <2083699.dbROROUJWB@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> <2083699.dbROROUJWB@antares> Message-ID: <1334218326236-4551223.post@n4.nabble.com> John Z. asked, > 1. What is technically wrong with the script at osis-converters > (http://code.google.com/p/osis-converters/)? There is nothing technically wrong in what the developer is doing there, in that it produces valid OSIS and the results works well with xulsword once the OSIS is converted by the usual means to a module. However, there are some new features in xulsword that are not [yet] used in the main SWORD engine. And there are are documented differences in how a few features are implemented in his OSIS. Even so, xulsword modules (e.g. those from IBT) do display well in other SWORD or JSword front-ends. c.f. I have all of those modules installed, and occasionaly view them using Xiphos and Bible Desktop. The developer participates in this mailing list from time to time, so he should get to read this thread. The only reason I'm replying now is due to the fact that he and I are friends, and have a shared interest in the region being addressed by IBT's translations. David Haslam Go Bible project leader -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Some-questions-about-the-WEB-module-tp4550326p4551223.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From Technical at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk Thu Apr 12 01:16:08 2012 From: Technical at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk (David Instone-Brewer) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:16:08 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese Strongs markup Message-ID: I'm starting work on correcting some errors in the Chinese Strongs markup, but I want to step carefully cos I'm new to this. I couldn't find a Wiki page outlining what the rules are for Strongs markup. There's a note at http://crosswire.org/wiki/Modules_in_the_beta_repository/ChiUns pointing out one problem, but there are many, though it is basically a very good markup. It appears to be based on the free KJV markup, though it also notes every occurrence of the Hebrew article eth This isn't very useful, but it shows that they were keen to include everything and that they did a lot of work on it. In order to make sure they include every Hebrew word, they often combined words in one entry, eg: Gen.1.2: [on the surface of] Sometimes this becomes complicated when one or more of the words is a verb, eg: Gen.2.2: [rested him from all the] - the numbers represent the words for "from" "all" "eth" and "working" - in this case the morphology goes with the last lemma (H6213) but this isn't always the case. eg: Gen.3.8: [hear] - the numbers represent: "hear" "eth" "LORD" and "Qal Imperfect" -in this case the morphology relates to the first of the three lemmas listed. I can sort this out, but I'd like to know how to record it - ie how can I indicate in correct coding that a morphology links with a particular lemma when more than one lemma is translated by a single word? I notice that the same thing happens in the KJV strongs (though less often), eg Gen.6.3 for that he also Is it OK to mark such occurrences as follows? Gen.6.3 for that he also This isn't good XML, but perhaps it is allowable? Or is there some other way to indicate which lemma the morphology belongs to? David IB /// Dr David Instone-Brewer dib Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament ^ Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK \=/ Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk www.TyndaleHouse.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Thu Apr 12 03:57:40 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:57:40 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <2083699.dbROROUJWB@antares> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> <2083699.dbROROUJWB@antares> Message-ID: <4F86B524.1000207@crosswire.org> On 4/11/2012 5:12 PM, John Zaitseff wrote: > Hi, Chris, > > Thanks for replying so quickly! > >>> 1. Who is the maintainer of this module? >> >> I maintain the WEB and associated translations modules. > > Should there be a wiki page somewhere to capture this information? Or > perhaps a simple line in the relevant web.conf? I've never been partial to signing my work. Some people do, but most of the current bulk contributors of content do not. I'm certainly content that issues be reported through the usual support channels (JIRA and/or the support list), rather than being directed to individuals. >> Do you know there to be meaningful updates to the text in the most >> recent revision(s)--meaningful meaning not changes to spaces or minor >> markup and not changes to the Apocrypha (since we don't support them in >> the current WEB module anyway)? > > No, I don't know; I only have an old version from 2010, and I know there are > changes from that. It sounds like there are frequent updates currently. I'd prefer to limit updates for the WEB and related translations to one per month or so, so I'll do another update soon, but probably not for every change (at least until it's automated). There should be a more recent version of the WEB module in CrossWire's main repository from March (or February, if not March), relative to what you have. >> I use usfm2osis.pl. > > I presume with manual tweaking, as described in > http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Converting_SFM_Bibles_to_OSIS ? If so, could > you possibly send me your most recent OSIS file? I don't do manual tweaking, unless there are errors in the source file. In that case, I fix the source file to generate valid OSIS. I don't recall whether the currently posted WEB employs title-cleanup.pl, but I likely will not use it in the future. It's only needed if you're using recent builds of osis2mod, but I find those builds so poor that I just won't use them any more. That's all to say that I don't intend to make any changes to the output of usfm2osis.pl, but I'll send you the file in the event that I actually do. > A related question, by the way: how well does mod2osis work when the > original was an OSIS file? That is, if file.osis is processed thus: > > file.osis -> osis2mod -> mod2osis -> newfile.osis > > How close is newfile.osis to the original file.osis? Not at all. mod2osis is worthless. >> One of my personal Summer projects will be to write a USFM to OSIS >> converter from scratch, but for that I won't be touching the >> usfm2osis.pl codebase. > > This was precisely what I was talking about. However, summer is a long time > away, especially down under in Australia! :-) A few questions: > > 1. What is technically wrong with the script at osis-converters > (http://code.google.com/p/osis-converters/)? > > 2. If there ARE technical limitations with sfm2osis.pl script there, is it > better to work with that than start over yet again? How amenable is that > maintainer to accepting patches? > > Beware of the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome! I occasionally fall into > the trap myself, but I _am_ trying here to work with people. Summer comes after school for me, which is 2-4 weeks from now, depending on how much studying I need to do for finals and how long grading papers takes. I've never looked at the osis-converters scripts, so I can't comment on them at all. However, it wouldn't be appropriate to my goals, since I specifically intend the rewrite to be in Python and my intention is to convert USFM to OSIS via a USX. So my real process will be: USFM -> USX (assuming USX isn't the source format) validate USX USX -> OSIS validate OSIS plus sanity tests (checking for duplicate/missing verses, balanced sID/eID pairs, etc.) --Chris From dhowens at pmbx.net Thu Apr 12 05:27:38 2012 From: dhowens at pmbx.net (Daniel Owens) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:27:38 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] WLC module questions Message-ID: <4F86CA3A.2070600@pmbx.net> I was using the WLC module to test another module, and I discovered a couple of things in the WLC: 1. The ? and ? "paragraph" markers are deleted in favor of actual paragraph breaks. The editorial decision to add paragraph markers there is reasonable enough (though they are traditionally assumed to be different: the first is open, i.e., starting a new paragraph new line, and closed, i.e. continuing after a break on the same line). It would be nice, though, if the markers were preserved. 2. I also discovered various places where a series of periods are in the module. See Genesis 8:13. Why are these there? Daniel From dfhmch at googlemail.com Thu Apr 12 07:03:25 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] WLC module questions In-Reply-To: <4F86CA3A.2070600@pmbx.net> References: <4F86CA3A.2070600@pmbx.net> Message-ID: <1334239405255-4551988.post@n4.nabble.com> Daniel, I'd suggest that you report those observations in http://www.crosswire.org/bugs/browse/MOD David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/WLC-module-questions-tp4551714p4551988.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From ajguns21 at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 09:18:31 2012 From: ajguns21 at gmail.com (ajguns) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Spanish Bible Module: Reina-Valera 1960 In-Reply-To: <463D6974.3060409@crosswire.org> References: <691934cb0705031417m7a441671q13a798dc3cbdc181@mail.gmail.com> <463D6974.3060409@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1334247511898-4552350.post@n4.nabble.com> Hello to everyone; I just registered to this site (Sword Devs) because I want this version (RV60) module, so I can add it to my BibleZ webOS app by Zhephanjas. I have requested him for this but he says I need to have a "legal" copy of it and make my own sword module. Thing is, I don't know how to make a sword module. I read that you have some versions of the RV60 that would make it easy to have an almost "immediately" sword module of the RV60 if we/you had the permission by right owners. Well, as you have already mentioned, you can make a sword module of the RV60 for personal usage and by doing this you are not infringing any right (is for your personal use, remember?). Then if you, lets say, upload the file here stating you use it for_personal_use_only_RV60_sword-module and we can download it (with the advice of using it for personal means only by any downloader) and in no way you are distributing this material with any economic mean or profit for you, then it's not illegal (even less if you make a legal statement within the module saying that anyone who downloads it does it by his own risk and is aware of ABS rights over RV60 and the acknowledgement that it is for PERSONAL USE only and no profited distribution is aloud without its owner consent; if needed, ask your lawyer for more explanation). This way we can have finally the RV60 sword module. If it's no problem for you and know how to make this sword-modules stuff, please help us have it. Thank you in advance regardless of the outcome, ajguns -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Spanish-Bible-Module-Reina-Valera-1960-tp353054p4552350.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From just_mike_y at yahoo.com Thu Apr 12 15:50:21 2012 From: just_mike_y at yahoo.com (Mike Hart) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Re: palmbible+? and kindle/nook e-ink format Crosswire in 2004 listed palmbible+ as a crosswire program (today the site claims that crosswire has no palm platform program.) I'm not claiming any particular person, and especially not Chris Little, is seeking to change history, and I apologize that the statement I made reads that way.? I meant to focus on my lack of knowledge, not a nefarious plot hiding in the shadows. :-)? I don't need any more discussion about Palmbible+ as the program and the OS is dead in the real world (You need a 2.2 kernal on linux or XP sp1 to get any palm devices to sync as far as I know. I guess some devices with SD slots might still have a life.) Besides a contact offlist, noone has made any statement for or against releasing epubs via CrossWire.? GoBible's association with the Crosswire Bible Society indicates Crosswire has the ability to release in formats other than sword but some guiding principles that remain a mystery.? If I or someone in my organization has texts to hand to Crosswire in epub format and declare them in the care of Crosswire, would someone at Crosswire consider starting a repo of epub format texts? And about my C++??? I'm currently stuck in .h :? Lots of definitions, not much done. _______________________ Crosswire is an amoeba to me, without any specific shape that can be defined (which is a good thing.)? The content of the website IS to me Crosswire.? Someone made the decision to list Palmbible+ in the way it was listed in 2004.? Someone changed that--changing history--by claiming palmbible wasn't Crosswire after it had been (possibly incorrectly) listed as being part of Crosswire. That activity was confusing in 2009ish when (i noticed) the listing changed, and it is still confusing.? Crosswire Bible Society has no annual meeting I'm aware of, or official membership roles, bylaws, charter, etc. I understand some code and some texts have dubious backgrounds and get de-listed for legal sanity, but palmbible+ was as far as i could tell good code built on a firm foundation.? I don't want or need a history lesson. It just confuses me that the listing to include it was changed to exclude it, with the special mention it had never been. It confuses me because the goals of palmbible+ seemed to fit the goals of Crosswire so closely that cooperative association was intuitively a good thing.? It makes no sense to me that there needs to be a division.? Nobody spending more than 10 minutes on the site thinks that its more than a web collective of isolated programmers.? What point does declaring that division serve? Again this an explanation of my statement 'confusing' and 'changing history', not to continue the conversation beyond this point. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian.j.dumont at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 18:15:32 2012 From: brian.j.dumont at gmail.com (Brian J Dumont) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 21:15:32 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Spanish Bible Module: Reina-Valera 1960 In-Reply-To: <1334247511898-4552350.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <691934cb0705031417m7a441671q13a798dc3cbdc181@mail.gmail.com> <463D6974.3060409@crosswire.org> <1334247511898-4552350.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F877E34.5090806@gmail.com> On 04/12/2012 12:18 PM, ajguns wrote: > Hello to everyone; I just registered to this site (Sword Devs) because > I want this version (RV60) module, so I can add it to my BibleZ webOS > app by Zhephanjas. I have requested him for this but he says I need to > have a "legal" copy of it and make my own sword module. Thing is, I > don't know how to make a sword module. I read that you have some > versions of the RV60 that would make it easy to have an almost > "immediately" sword module of the RV60 if we/you had the permission by > right owners. Well, as you have already mentioned, you can make a > sword module of the RV60 for personal usage and by doing this you are > not infringing any right (is for your personal use, remember?). Then > if you, lets say, upload the file here stating you use it > for_personal_use_only_RV60_sword-module and we can download it (with > the advice of using it for personal means only by any downloader) and > in no way you are distributing this material with any economic mean or > profit for you, then it's not illegal (even less if you make a legal > statement within the module saying that anyone who downloads it does > it by his own risk and is aware of ABS rights over RV60 and the > acknowledgement that it is for PERSONAL USE only and no profited > distribution is aloud without its owner consent; if needed, ask your > lawyer for more explanation). This way we can have finally the RV60 > sword module. If it's no problem for you and know how to make this > sword-modules stuff, please help us have it. Thank you in advance > regardless of the outcome, ajguns Creating a module (even for personal use) without proper license is a violation of copyright law, at least in the USA. Distributing it, even if labeled "for personal use" is a very big copyright infringement. I HIGHLY suggest that you work to secure proper copyright license or make use of one of the public domain translations that are available. Please do not ask others to help to make these modules without proper rights to do so. Brian From refdoc at gmx.net Fri Apr 13 00:24:57 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:24:57 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 15:50 -0700, Mike Hart wrote: > > Crosswire in 2004 listed palmbible+ as a crosswire program (today the > site claims that crosswire has no palm platform program.) FWIW, the site even then did not claim that Palm software is CrossWire, but listed it in an admittedly more confusing fashion than it is listed now. > > Besides a contact offlist, noone has made any statement for or against > releasing epubs via CrossWire. Owning a epub reader I can not see a less useful way for studying the Bible than using epub. The first thing I did was rooting it and installing And Bible on it to have a decent study tool. epub appears useless to me as a format for anything other than reading unidirectionally without any serious referencing forward and backward. That said, some publishers might indeed be happy for us to produce epubs too, but I have neither time nor inclination to work in that direction. If you want to produce a converter say OSIS to ePub or USFM to ePub and this converter works well, I am sure we could offer epubs to these publishers for their further use. Whether we would offer them ourselves for download is another question. I have no opinion on. Yours Peter From refdoc at gmx.net Fri Apr 13 00:52:14 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:52:14 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Spanish Bible Module: Reina-Valera 1960 In-Reply-To: <4F877E34.5090806@gmail.com> References: <691934cb0705031417m7a441671q13a798dc3cbdc181@mail.gmail.com> <463D6974.3060409@crosswire.org> <1334247511898-4552350.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F877E34.5090806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1334303534.4530.10.camel@AOA110> On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 21:15 -0400, Brian J Dumont wrote: > On 04/12/2012 12:18 PM, ajguns wrote: > > Please do not ask others to help to make these modules without proper > rights to do so. I second what Brian writes. From thulester at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 12:16:39 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:16:39 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> Message-ID: Quoting Peter "If I or someone in my organization has texts to hand to Crosswire in epub format and declare them in the care of Crosswire, would someone at Crosswire consider starting a repo of epub format texts?" I can't speak officially for Crosswire, but I can volunteer resources to host your epub formats Peter, since I have resources available to host (I own some data centres). I've been playing with how Sword software deals with FTP repositories. I don't know if I've broached rules in doing this but I did this for two reasons. I wanted to get test modules onto my iPad and used the repository to do that for testing purposes. I also wanted to provide access to sword modules to a friend who lives in an environment where 'crosswire' is filtered. So I set up a Crosswire/NET/Xiphos/IBT Mirror using the following details: Mirror Name: 1XO NET Bible Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /bible/sword Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/bible/sword Mirror Name: 1XO CrossWire Bible Society Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /crosswire/pub/sword/raw Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/crosswire/pub/sword/raw Mirror Name: 1XO CrossWire Bible Society (attic) Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /crosswire/pub/sword/atticraw Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/crosswire/pub/sword/atticraw Mirror Name: 1XO CrossWire Bible Society (av11n) Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /crosswire/pub/sword/raw Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/crosswire/pub/sword/avraw Mirror Name: 1XO CrossWire Bible Society (Beta) Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /crosswire/pub/sword/betaraw Zip Directory: /crosswire/pub/sword/betapackages/rawzip Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/crosswire/pub/sword/betaraw Mirror Name: 1XO CrossWire Bible Society (Xperimental) Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /crosswire/pub/sword/raw Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/crosswire/experimental Mirror Name: 1XO IBT Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /ibt/pub/modsword/raw Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/ibt/pub/modsword Mirror Name: 1XO Xiphos Mirror Mirror Machine Name: ftp.1xo.net Repository Directory: /xiphos Link: ftp://ftp.1xo.net/xiphos/ I'll continue running this until or unless someone asks me to stop with the offer that if anyone else wants to use this mirror for other modules, let me know. Also, I would be greatly appreciated if people would test this mirror out by adding them to your Module Managers. ~Andrew On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 3:24 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 15:50 -0700, Mike Hart wrote: > > > > Crosswire in 2004 listed palmbible+ as a crosswire program (today the > > site claims that crosswire has no palm platform program.) > > FWIW, the site even then did not claim that Palm software is CrossWire, > but listed it in an admittedly more confusing fashion than it is listed > now. > > > > Besides a contact offlist, noone has made any statement for or against > > releasing epubs via CrossWire. > > Owning a epub reader I can not see a less useful way for studying the > Bible than using epub. The first thing I did was rooting it and > installing And Bible on it to have a decent study tool. > > epub appears useless to me as a format for anything other than reading > unidirectionally without any serious referencing forward and backward. > > That said, some publishers might indeed be happy for us to produce epubs > too, but I have neither time nor inclination to work in that direction. > If you want to produce a converter say OSIS to ePub or USFM to ePub and > this converter works well, I am sure we could offer epubs to these > publishers for their further use. Whether we would offer them ourselves > for download is another question. I have no opinion on. > > Yours > > Peter > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From just_mike_y at yahoo.com Fri Apr 13 12:49:03 2012 From: just_mike_y at yahoo.com (Mike Hart) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> Message-ID: <1334346543.40654.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I also apologize to PVK if somehow my request has turned into an impersonation of Peter. I'll respond to Andrew offlist about epub/mobi formats, but someone with specifics on licenses should inform him about redistributing some of the copyrighted texts that his posting implies.? In short, Andrew, Crosswire has permission to distribute many of the text they do, but that permission is not transferrable.? If, for example, you've mirrored? Crossway's English Standard Version module, you are risking both prosecution and having Crossway request that Crosswire stop distributing the module.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thulester at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 15:23:03 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 18:23:03 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <1334346543.40654.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <1334346543.40654.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok I'll take it down .. no worries. On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Mike Hart wrote: > I also apologize to PVK if somehow my request has turned into an > impersonation of Peter. > > I'll respond to Andrew offlist about epub/mobi formats, but someone with > specifics on licenses should inform him about redistributing some of the > copyrighted texts that his posting implies. In short, Andrew, Crosswire > has permission to distribute many of the text they do, but that permission > is not transferrable. If, for example, you've mirrored Crossway's English > Standard Version module, you are risking both prosecution and having > Crossway request that Crosswire stop distributing the module. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Fri Apr 13 16:48:17 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 01:48:17 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> Message-ID: <20120413234817.70840@gmx.net> > Von: Andrew Thule > I've been playing with how Sword software deals with FTP repositories. I > don't know if I've broached rules in doing this but I did this for two > reasons. Please take these repos down ASAP. You have no permission whatsoever to set up mirrors for modules where the license is restricted to CrossWire If you want to experiment, please restrict yourself to public domain modules and those which explicitly state that redistribution is permitted. Peter -- NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a From thulester at gmail.com Sat Apr 14 07:34:49 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:34:49 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <20120413234817.70840@gmx.net> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <20120413234817.70840@gmx.net> Message-ID: Already done. On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > > > Von: Andrew Thule > > I've been playing with how Sword software deals with FTP repositories. I > > don't know if I've broached rules in doing this but I did this for two > > reasons. > > Please take these repos down ASAP. > > You have no permission whatsoever to set up mirrors for modules where the > license is restricted to CrossWire > > If you want to experiment, please restrict yourself to public domain > modules and those which explicitly state that redistribution is permitted. > > Peter > > > -- > NEU: FreePhone 3-fach-Flat mit kostenlosem Smartphone! > Jetzt informieren: http://mobile.1und1.de/?ac=OM.PW.PW003K20328T7073a > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhphx at cox.net Sat Apr 14 12:13:39 2012 From: jhphx at cox.net (jhphx) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:13:39 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> Message-ID: <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> Andrew Thule wrote: > > I've been playing with how Sword software deals with FTP repositories. > I don't know if I've broached rules in doing this but I did this for > two reasons. I wanted to get test modules onto my iPad and used the > repository to do that for testing purposes. I also wanted to provide > access to sword modules to a friend who lives in an environment where > 'crosswire' is filtered. So I set up a Crosswire/NET/Xiphos/IBT > Mirror using the following details: I wonder if there is some value in allowing some mirrors of this type. What it would take to allow it and if licenses would/could permit it in some situations? I understand the rush to say shut them down but this is something that perhaps some thought for the future should also be given. Perhaps a method to automatically clone to a mirror as much as permitted by license. For modules that have license problems could a "mirror" proxy those files so they still come from Crosswire but have the Crosswire IP hidden? I feel like Andrew may have gotten a bit of an uncomfortable surprise by admitting his efforts. I don't know if there is a better way of giving notice before something like this happens and pointing out the best way to what can be done and allowed. Andrew, thanks for the effort. Sorry it didn't come to a better response. Jerry From kahunapule at mpj.cx Sat Apr 14 13:24:01 2012 From: kahunapule at mpj.cx (Kahunapule Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:24:01 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> Message-ID: <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> Yes, of course there is value in mirroring Bible repositories, especially in creative access countries! Let's not throw the baby out with the copyrighted and restricted bathwater! I would like to set up a new repository with whatever unencumbered Sword modules are worth posting, in such a way that anyone can and may mirror or proxy access to it. (I'll also set up a testing repository for new redistributable modules.) No modules without permission to redistribute will be allowed in that repository. Just Public Domain and Creative Commons modules or modules with specific permission for redistribution will be allowed. That way, Andrew and others could freely mirror the new repository. Any help with the filtering process will be appreciated. I'll also make room for quality non-Sword module formats that are freely redistributable and useful. Any questions? Comments? Is that a good idea? Michael http://mpj.cx On 04/14/2012 09:13 AM, jhphx wrote: > Andrew Thule wrote: >> >> I've been playing with how Sword software deals with FTP repositories. I don't know if I've broached rules in doing this but I did this for two reasons. I wanted to get test modules onto my iPad and used the repository to do that for testing purposes. I also wanted to provide access to sword modules to a friend who lives in an environment where 'crosswire' is filtered. So I set up a Crosswire/NET/Xiphos/IBT Mirror using the following details: > > I wonder if there is some value in allowing some mirrors of this type. What it would take to allow it and if licenses would/could permit it in some situations? I understand the rush to say shut them down but this is something that perhaps some thought for the future should also be given. Perhaps a method to automatically clone to a mirror as much as permitted by license. For modules that have license problems could a "mirror" proxy those files so they still come from Crosswire but have the Crosswire IP > hidden? > > I feel like Andrew may have gotten a bit of an uncomfortable surprise by admitting his efforts. I don't know if there is a better way of giving notice before something like this happens and pointing out the best way to what can be done and allowed. > > Andrew, thanks for the effort. Sorry it didn't come to a better response. > > Jerry From just_mike_y at yahoo.com Sat Apr 14 15:30:03 2012 From: just_mike_y at yahoo.com (Mike Hart) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1334442603.14033.YahooMailNeo@web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> For what it's worth: I've lately seen in some online help menus and peripheral documentation that Paratext 7.3 will support a newer version of USFM. The latest is 2.35 but it's changed multiple times in the last couple months, and as far as I know 7.3 isn't out yet.? 2.35 appears to be a full and final release, but... I'd wait until Paratext 7.3 is released.? Our group isn't in the core of Paratext development, so we're slow to get updates. I think we are on the latest stable release 7.2.163.0, but 7.3 may already be out and we aren't on it yet. ? The point is that USFM is apparently under revision. Most of the changes are designed to support a richer paper bible experience (Study Bible sidebars defined in the same project file as the Bible) and to further separate the translation process from paper markup (deprecating tags for emphasised, small caps, etc, more emphasis on using meaning filled tags like 'words of God', etc.) Since things are being deprecated, it's worth reviewing the USFM 2.35 spec ( or the latest once 7.3 IS released) before embarking on a redo project of the USFM2OSIS script.? http://paratext.ubs-translations.org/about/usfm (the "documentation" section about 70% down the page) Draft USFM Stylesheets You might also consider that the stylesheets available on that page contain style definitions for the USFM tagging system in it's entirety in a heirarchial form (as far as I know it's complete.) That is, The stylesheet is probably vastly more useful than the documentation for someone attempting an USFM2OSIS or USFM2anything script from scratch, or for maintaining a script..... --- After reviewing today, apparently my words "deprecated tags" have been lessened from an earlier draft copy (2.33?)? I last reviewed to a 'strong recommendation against' the use of hard character styling.? Apparently it is the direction USFM is going, but they slowed down the train. http://ubs-icap.org/chm/usfm/2.35/special_text_character_styles.htm --- Latest USFM Manual I note that the Crosswire wiki has a nonworking link for latest USFM.? This might be the best replacement: http://ubs-icap.org/chm/usfm/ Which seems to say that 2.35 is no longer draft but final. ________________________________ From: Chris Little One of my personal Summer projects will be to write a USFM to OSIS converter from scratch, but for that I won't be touching the usfm2osis.pl codebase. Given how much we use usfm2osis.pl and how well it does its job, we really can't have big changes to the existing code that cause regressions in functionality. (Abundant unit & regression tests will be a feature of the re-written converter, but for now, we have essentially nothing to identify when changes to the code have unintended consequences--aside from diff maybe.) --Chris _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kahunapule at mpj.cx Sat Apr 14 16:25:20 2012 From: kahunapule at mpj.cx (Kahunapule Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 13:25:20 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Some questions about the WEB module In-Reply-To: <1334442603.14033.YahooMailNeo@web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> <1334442603.14033.YahooMailNeo@web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F8A0760.9000905@mpj.cx> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Sat Apr 14 19:48:33 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 19:48:33 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F8A3701.1000704@crosswire.org> On 4/12/2012 3:50 PM, Mike Hart wrote: > Besides a contact offlist, noone has made any statement for or against > releasing epubs via CrossWire. GoBible's association with the Crosswire > Bible Society indicates Crosswire has the ability to release in formats > other than sword but some guiding principles that remain a mystery. If I > or someone in my organization has texts to hand to Crosswire in epub > format and declare them in the care of Crosswire, would someone at > Crosswire consider starting a repo of epub format texts? I would guess CrossWire would not be against hosting EPUBs and MOBIs. It's probably something Troy should chime in on, before any significant effort goes into the proposition. However... The usual way for ebook reader users to get their books is via their ebook reader manufacturer's store, be it B&N, Amazon, iTunes, or the like. I don't know of an ebook reader that doesn't support some way of loading books via USB, HTTP, or email, but I don't expect that most users are familiar with those. So the question would arise: should we rather be preparing EPUBs & MOBIs for submission to Amazon, iTunes, Amazon, B&N, Google Play, kobo, Sony, etc.? I don't disagree with Peter, that ebook readers are not well-suited to what Sword & Go Bible normally do, which is specialized lookups, cross-referencing, etc. However, I believe there's still potentially a market for Bibles and other Christian texts that people actually sit down and read, cover-to-cover. --Chris From greg.hellings at gmail.com Sat Apr 14 20:17:28 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 22:17:28 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: <4F8A3701.1000704@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8A3701.1000704@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Chris Little wrote: > On 4/12/2012 3:50 PM, Mike Hart wrote: >> >> Besides a contact offlist, noone has made any statement for or against >> releasing epubs via CrossWire. GoBible's association with the Crosswire >> Bible Society indicates Crosswire has the ability to release in formats >> other than sword but some guiding principles that remain a mystery. If I >> or someone in my organization has texts to hand to Crosswire in epub >> format and declare them in the care of Crosswire, would someone at >> Crosswire consider starting a repo of epub format texts? > > > I would guess CrossWire would not be against hosting EPUBs and MOBIs. It's > probably something Troy should chime in on, before any significant effort > goes into the proposition. > > However... > > > The usual way for ebook reader users to get their books is via their ebook > reader manufacturer's store, be it B&N, Amazon, iTunes, or the like. I don't > know of an ebook reader that doesn't support some way of loading books via > USB, HTTP, or email, but I don't expect that most users are familiar with > those. So the question would arise: should we rather be preparing EPUBs & > MOBIs for submission to Amazon, iTunes, Amazon, B&N, Google Play, kobo, > Sony, etc.? >From a technical perspective I don't think creating EPUB out of a SWORD module should be difficult. I seem to remember that the latest version of EPUB is internally pretty much HTML5 with some extra stuff like stylesheet information - sorta the way SWORD modules can be OSIS or ThML snippets packaged into a containing format with additional information. If that's true, then the currently existing filters are probably sufficient and just a small additional amount of information would need to be written by an exporting script. --Greg > > I don't disagree with Peter, that ebook readers are not well-suited to what > Sword & Go Bible normally do, which is specialized lookups, > cross-referencing, etc. However, I believe there's still potentially a > market for Bibles and other Christian texts that people actually sit down > and read, cover-to-cover. > > --Chris > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From jpklingon at aol.com Sat Apr 14 20:48:01 2012 From: jpklingon at aol.com (Joel Anderson) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Kindle/Nook Format In-Reply-To: References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com><4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org><4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org><1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com><4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org><1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org><1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org><1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><4F8A3701.1000704@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <8CEE8D1B0A25667-143C-17EDF@webmail-m052.sysops.aol.com> The easiest way to generate ereader content (for me anyway) is using Calibre - I've used it to transform HTML documents into .mobi formatted books. If you build links to connect the pages/chapters and put in TOC anchors it can create a usable ebook document. I've put my Klingon Language Version Psalms and New Testament (with WEB parallel) on Amazon, more as a novelty. I'll admit that Kindles (and the like) are not the easiest for Scripture - though I have many translations on mine - it's really like a scroll more than a codex. Better for devotional reading than research. The And Bible on my Android phone is MUCH more powerful and nimble, allowing navigation of texts, Strongs lookups and commentary access. -- -- "Anyone who is not an anarchist agrees with having a policeman at the corner of the street; but the danger at present is that of finding the policeman half-way down the chimney or even under the bed." GKC ----------------------------------------------------- joel anderson * joela at umn.edu * JPA at MrKlingon.org mIghghachvo' yImej 'ej yIQaQ; roj yInej 'ej Dochvam yItlha' ---------------------------------------------------- pub:7411721:11 http://tinyurl.com/2jftto PGP KEY: http://klv.klingonword.org/keys.html ---------------------------------------------------- http://www.MrKlingon.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Sat Apr 14 21:02:17 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:02:17 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] mirrors (was: Re: Kindle/Nook Format) In-Reply-To: <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> Message-ID: <4F8A4849.7030603@crosswire.org> On 4/14/2012 1:24 PM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote: > Yes, of course there is value in mirroring Bible repositories, > especially in creative access countries! Let's not throw the baby out > with the copyrighted and restricted bathwater! > > I would like to set up a new repository with whatever unencumbered > Sword modules are worth posting, in such a way that anyone can and > may mirror or proxy access to it. (I'll also set up a testing > repository for new redistributable modules.) No modules without > permission to redistribute will be allowed in that repository. Just > Public Domain and Creative Commons modules or modules with specific > permission for redistribution will be allowed. That way, Andrew and > others could freely mirror the new repository. Any help with the > filtering process will be appreciated. > > I'll also make room for quality non-Sword module formats that are > freely redistributable and useful. > > Any questions? Comments? Is that a good idea? It sounds like the solution to the problem being described is proxies, not mirrors. My worries about mirroring are: 1) Fragmentation What you're describing would offer a proper subset of our offerings. A subset, other than the empty set itself, is better than nothing, but a user expects a mirror to be a mirror, not a portion of a mirror. A CPAN/CTAN/CRAN mirror or any Linux distro's package mirror that is systematically lacking certain packages is not very useful to anyone and is just going to annoy users. Since there aren't any strict interdependencies between Sword modules, a subsetted module repository would be less unuseful than other types of mirrors, but I still quite dislike the notion of a repository masquerading as a CrossWire mirror that isn't one. 2) Irrevocability There are cases in which licensing will terminate and we will need to remove content from our repositories. There have also been cases in which we were mistaken about licensing and had to remove content from our repositories. Any mirror would have to reflect new & updated content as well as content that had been removed or undergone a license change. For that reason, it would not be reasonable to do manual curation of mirrored modules. 3) Integration with our existing ecosystem There's no notion of mirror repositories, much less partial mirror repositories, in our current installMgr / masterRepoList.conf architecture. A user could manually add partial mirror repositories, but I would object to our including partial mirrors in the masterRepoList.conf in any way, because they don't actually represent our offerings. (Full mirrors, if they were possible, would be another matter. I could see making the repository URL into a list to support mirrors, but that wouldn't be appropriate for partial mirrors.) --Chris From chrislit at crosswire.org Sat Apr 14 21:03:58 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:03:58 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] USFM to OSIS (was: Re: Some questions about the WEB module) In-Reply-To: <1334442603.14033.YahooMailNeo@web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> <1334442603.14033.YahooMailNeo@web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F8A48AE.3070504@crosswire.org> Since we're primarily consumers of other people's (U)SFM, how to write good USFM is less important than how best to interpret USFM that may not be good/well-formed. My real plan, as I mentioned briefly in another message, is to translate (U)SFM to USX and thence to OSIS. USX to OSIS should not be horribly difficult--much easier than (U)SFM to OSIS, at least. And translating (U)SFM to USX should be relatively easy in the cases where it is well-formed USFM and mostly possible where it is not. --Chris On 4/14/2012 3:30 PM, Mike Hart wrote: > For what it's worth: > > I've lately seen in some online help menus and peripheral documentation > that Paratext 7.3 will support a newer version of USFM. The latest is > 2.35 but it's changed multiple times in the last couple months, and as > far as I know 7.3 isn't out yet. 2.35 appears to be a full and final > release, but... I'd wait until Paratext 7.3 is released. Our group isn't > in the core of Paratext development, so we're slow to get updates. I > think we are on the latest stable release 7.2.163.0, but 7.3 may already > be out and we aren't on it yet. The point is that USFM is apparently > under revision. Most of the changes are designed to support a richer > paper bible experience (Study Bible sidebars defined in the same project > file as the Bible) and to further separate the translation process from > paper markup (deprecating tags for emphasised, small caps, etc, more > emphasis on using meaning filled tags like 'words of God', etc.) Since > things are being deprecated, it's worth reviewing the USFM 2.35 spec ( > or the latest once 7.3 IS released) before embarking on a redo project > of the USFM2OSIS script. > > http://paratext.ubs-translations.org/about/usfm > > (the "documentation" section about 70% down the page) > > Draft USFM Stylesheets > > You might also consider that the stylesheets available on that page > contain style definitions for the USFM tagging system in it's entirety > in a heirarchial form (as far as I know it's complete.) That is, The > stylesheet is probably vastly more useful than the documentation for > someone attempting an USFM2OSIS or USFM2anything script from scratch, or > for maintaining a script..... > > --- > > After reviewing today, apparently my words "deprecated tags" have been > lessened from an earlier draft copy (2.33?) I last reviewed to a 'strong > recommendation against' the use of hard character styling. Apparently it > is the direction USFM is going, but they slowed down the train. > > http://ubs-icap.org/chm/usfm/2.35/special_text_character_styles.htm > > --- > > Latest USFM Manual > > I note that the Crosswire wiki has a nonworking link for latest USFM. > This might be the best replacement: > > http://ubs-icap.org/chm/usfm/ > > Which seems to say that 2.35 is no longer draft but final. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Chris Little > ** > One of my personal Summer projects will be to write a USFM to OSIS > converter from scratch, but for that I won't be touching the > usfm2osis.pl codebase. Given how much we use usfm2osis.pl and how well > it does its job, we really can't have big changes to the existing code > that cause regressions in functionality. (Abundant unit & regression > tests will be a feature of the re-written converter, but for now, we > have essentially nothing to identify when changes to the code have > unintended consequences--aside from diff maybe.) > > --Chris > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From kahunapule at mpj.cx Sun Apr 15 00:25:32 2012 From: kahunapule at mpj.cx (Kahunapule Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2012 21:25:32 -1000 Subject: [sword-devel] mirrors In-Reply-To: <4F8A4849.7030603@crosswire.org> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> <4F8A4849.7030603@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F8A77EC.5060003@mpj.cx> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Sun Apr 15 01:01:07 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:01:07 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] mirrors In-Reply-To: <4F8A77EC.5060003@mpj.cx> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> <4F8A4849.7030603@crosswire.org> <4F8A77EC.5060003@mpj.cx> Message-ID: <1334476867.1774.8.camel@AOA110> On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 21:25 -1000, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote: > Does that make sense? As a rule I think it makes very little or no sense to spend any effort on a systematic "anti-censorship" setup, unless this is what you do professionally. It is simply impossible for a content provider to stay on top of say, China's or Iran's Great Firewall. This is separate from making occasionally modules available to a friend in a "creative" access country. In my view it is much better to be in a reliable place with a decent pipe to the net, making it possible for those who want to access us with creative means (e.g. Tor) to access us, reliably and with minimal fuss. Once we go down the route of anti-censorship measures (by way of proxy or mirror), we are in an arms race which we will loose reliably, while at the same time making access difficult to those with unreliable information where to find us. People will latch on mirrors and proxies and end up nowhere when these go down for one reason or another. Peter From dfhmch at googlemail.com Sun Apr 15 01:35:30 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 01:35:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] USFM to OSIS (was: Re: Some questions about the WEB module) In-Reply-To: <4F8A48AE.3070504@crosswire.org> References: <12359062.MTOdFFszxF@antares> <4F860E4A.6010401@crosswire.org> <1334442603.14033.YahooMailNeo@web161206.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8A48AE.3070504@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1334478930691-4558748.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Chris, The way Paratext works in respect of USX is that, while the translator is editing, an automatic conversion between USFM and USX is being done all the time as a background process. Providing new translations come to us from the newest version of Paratext (i.e. with USX support), we could even request the source text in USX format (as well as USFM). For older translations, that have not recently been edited in Paratext, then - yes - a conversion from USFM to USX will be required. Clearly, the simplest way to convert such older USFM to USX would be to pass it through Paratext. This is why we should make every effort for CrossWire to obtain membership of the Forum of Bible Agencies International. We'd then gain access to Paratext as an approved organization. Administering which CrossWire volunteers are given individual user access would still operate in the same way as it does now, on a case by case basis. Yet having the Society accepted by UBS/SIL through membership of the FBAI would considerably ease the process. Longer term, it's envisaged that a more accessible edition of Paratext will be released, one that does not give the end user access to all their copyrighted resources. I've been reliably informed that this is about 12 to 18 months away. David Haslam Go Bible project leader -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Some-questions-about-the-WEB-module-tp4550326p4558748.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Sun Apr 15 01:44:52 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 01:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] CrossWire on Facebook Message-ID: <1334479492173-4558756.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi everyone, I've just registered a facebook URL for the CrossWire pages. "crosswire" was already taken, so new URL is longer, yet pretty straightforward and easy to remember. http://www.facebook.com/crosswirebiblesociety Our wiki page has been updated accordingly. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/CrossWire-on-Facebook-tp4558756p4558756.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Sun Apr 15 07:36:04 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 07:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] CrossWire on Facebook In-Reply-To: <1334479492173-4558756.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1334479492173-4558756.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1334500564164-4559219.post@n4.nabble.com> We could do with adding a nice *cover* for our facebook page. Anyone like to volunteer? - preferably some with good graphic design skills. I have Admin access for our facebook page- so even if you don't, please send me your picture file[s], and I'll use the best one that gets submitted, providing it meets the requirements for a facebook cover. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/CrossWire-on-Facebook-tp4558756p4559219.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From jhphx at cox.net Sun Apr 15 09:55:10 2012 From: jhphx at cox.net (jhphx) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:55:10 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] mirrors In-Reply-To: <1334476867.1774.8.camel@AOA110> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> <4F8A4849.7030603@crosswire.org> <4F8A77EC.5060003@mpj.cx> <1334476867.1774.8.camel@AOA110> Message-ID: <4F8AFD6E.9090901@cox.net> I think there are going to be people who will do or will want to do these kind of things. So, ignore them, block them, or help them do the best they can and make as little mess and problems for Crosswire as possible? Perhaps the first thing needed is information on what can and can not be done and what should and should not be done and how to do the best ways. That information could be put in the wiki. That does not require any changes at Crosswire other than providing some information. I like that Michael wants to try to do something. That won't have to change anything at Crosswire or in existing code either unless he finds something worthy of the change. There are people like Michael that have some knowledge of how web sites work and security. Their input for others could be valuable. Until yesterday I had never tried using a proxy service. I found Proxy.org and the information there and discovered how easy it is to find and use proxies as a user. But I don't know how easy it would be to set up a proxy specifically for connections to Crosswire for others to use. I have also tested "HTTPS Everywhere" and found that it does not get a secure connection to Crosswire. I don't know if that would matter but thought I would mention it as long as we are near the topic. Perhaps there are others that know these kind of services and would like to experiment and share their knowledge where it could help people who want to set up such things. As to the topic of repositories, my understanding is that people are free to create their own repositories and share them as long as nothing being shared violates copyright and license agreements. So, again, people that will set these up, ignore them, or help them do it as easy,completely and accurately as possible without making a mess? As to Crosswire only modules, can install manager detect them and give an error or message when an unallowed non-Crosswire repository is being used? I know that wouldn't be fool proof but it would as least give honest fools a heads up. It probably wouldn't work correctly with proxy. Jerry On 4/15/2012 1:01 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 21:25 -1000, Kahunapule Michael Johnson wrote: > >> Does that make sense? > As a rule I think it makes very little or no sense to spend any effort > on a systematic "anti-censorship" setup, unless this is what you do > professionally. It is simply impossible for a content provider to stay > on top of say, China's or Iran's Great Firewall. > > This is separate from making occasionally modules available to a friend > in a "creative" access country. > > In my view it is much better to be in a reliable place with a decent > pipe to the net, making it possible for those who want to access us with > creative means (e.g. Tor) to access us, reliably and with minimal fuss. > > Once we go down the route of anti-censorship measures (by way of proxy > or mirror), we are in an arms race which we will loose reliably, while > at the same time making access difficult to those with unreliable > information where to find us. People will latch on mirrors and proxies > and end up nowhere when these go down for one reason or another. > > Peter > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From thulester at gmail.com Sun Apr 15 20:41:28 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:41:28 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] mirrors In-Reply-To: <4F8A77EC.5060003@mpj.cx> References: <4F7B02B6.4030500@crosswire.org> <4F7B2C2D.1040706@redhat.com> <4F7B31C0.60008@crosswire.org> <4F7B4739.40404@crosswire.org> <4F7B577A.2080302@crosswire.org> <1333484546269-4530071.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F7B7622.9020601@crosswire.org> <1333980087.72236.YahooMailNeo@web161202.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F83984B.5070802@crosswire.org> <1334062896.49436.YahooMailNeo@web161203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4F8618EE.4050907@crosswire.org> <1334271021.14691.YahooMailNeo@web161205.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <1334301897.4530.8.camel@AOA110> <4F89CC63.4090101@cox.net> <4F89DCE1.8090300@mpj.cx> <4F8A4849.7030603@crosswire.org> <4F8A77EC.5060003@mpj.cx> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 3:25 AM, Kahunapule Michael Johnson < kahunapule at mpj.cx> wrote: > Comments below... > > I think that either proxies or mirrors can improve the probability of > access from creative access countries. The primary difference is that a > mirror increases the effective available download bandwidth while a proxy > does not, unless it is a caching proxy. The main issue with mirrors is if > they are periodically updated to the contents of the master site (which is > good) or just mirrored once with content that eventually goes stale (which > is not as good). If, like Ubuntu archive mirrors, all mirrors use rsync in > a specific manner to update every 6 hours, then all archives contain the > exact same data. I would rather see regularly-updated mirrors or caching > proxies than simple proxies, just to get the added benefit of more capacity > (and therefore more resistance to DOS attacks as well as more ability to > distribute Scriptures to more people in a given time). > Not having access to rsync with the main Crosswire site, to avoid fragmentation between the main site, and the mirror I emulated rsync via FTP using the following in a cron job (which was as close as I could get): /usr/bin/wget -nH -np -m --passive-ftp --user=anonymous --password= mirror at user.com ftp://ftp.crosswire.org/pub/sword/raw When something at the main site changed, it was replicated at the mirror, if nothing changed, nothing was copies. Nothing that existed on the mirror differed from what was on the main sites (so the purpose was to have an exact copy). I provide this only to fill in technical details of how I was 'mirroring' the main site, not to support some particular position or another. ~Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From info at tetzels.de Fri Apr 20 07:03:44 2012 From: info at tetzels.de (Stephan) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:03:44 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper Message-ID: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> Hi, has someone build SWORD for NaCl with success? Native Client is an interface in Google Chrome to use native code (c/c++) in web apps (javascript). https://developers.google.com/native-client/ Best Regards, Stephan From scribe at crosswire.org Fri Apr 20 07:15:23 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:15:23 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper In-Reply-To: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> References: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> Message-ID: <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> Hi Stephan, I believe I downloaded the development kit a while back, but never pursued it farther. Greg Hellings had a helpful comment in an HTML5/Javascript thread back at the end of March: http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2012-March/037542.html Here, he notes that data storage is typically limited to 5MB per unique site. This would be a problem for such an implementation. Per Google, Pepper has access to the same datastore as Javascript. Not sure if that means that it has the same size limits or not. Let us know if you have any success! Troy On 04/20/2012 04:03 PM, Stephan wrote: > Hi, > > has someone build SWORD for NaCl with success? Native Client is an > interface in Google Chrome to use native code (c/c++) in web apps > (javascript). > > https://developers.google.com/native-client/ > > Best Regards, > Stephan > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From greg.hellings at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 08:15:26 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 10:15:26 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper In-Reply-To: <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> References: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Hi Stephan, > > I believe I downloaded the development kit a while back, but never pursued > it farther. Greg Hellings had a helpful comment in an HTML5/Javascript > thread back at the end of March: > > http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2012-March/037542.html > > Here, he notes that data storage is typically limited to 5MB per unique > site. ?This would be a problem for such an implementation. ?Per Google, > Pepper has access to the same datastore as Javascript. ?Not sure if that > means that it has the same size limits or not. My understanding of NaCl is that it lacks this limitation. Such a wrapping of the SWORD library would permit it direct file system access and one of the warnings I've read is that you not permit your library or NaCl application to clog up a user's hard drive. Also that users be wary of what they install because the NaCl runs entirely outside of Chrome's sandbox and can access arbitrary data on the hard drive. That is, assuming you're talking about an NaCl Chrome plugin rather than an NaCl application run off a web page. If you're running it off a web page (if that's even possible?) then I have no knowledge of how that works. I had begun work on a pure-JavaScript Bible display application. But when it got to the point of deciding whether to store all my data in JavaScript (using WebDB/IndexDB) or wrap SWORD into an NaCl plugin I stalled. I would prefer the data be native in the JavaScript access using IndexDB (key-value store) or WebDB (SQLite) but wrapping SWORD would give access to its SWKey parsing and locales and would obviate the need to implement a different storage mechanism. (Storage space for a Chrome plugin is not limited to the 5MB if the plugin requests the unlimited space permission, so that wasn't an issue like it would be for a website). --Greg > > Let us know if you have any success! > > Troy > > > > > On 04/20/2012 04:03 PM, Stephan wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> has someone build SWORD for NaCl with success? Native Client is an >> interface in Google Chrome to use native code (c/c++) in web apps >> (javascript). >> >> https://developers.google.com/native-client/ >> >> Best Regards, >> Stephan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From bdrake at crosswire.org Sat Apr 21 12:29:56 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:29:56 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... Message-ID: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time soon? God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From scribe at crosswire.org Sat Apr 21 12:59:48 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 21:59:48 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and hope to push out a new release of SWORD. Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start planning. o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current filter sets. Any update or news on that? o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. Any frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on this one. o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. The original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code. o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked about. Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! Troy On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: > I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together > from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I > used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk > were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time > soon? > > God bless, Barry. > From dmsmith at crosswire.org Sat Apr 21 13:09:35 2012 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 16:09:35 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <273FDC68-E127-4CD8-ADFA-55A5A63B2C65@crosswire.org> There's a problem that osis2mod won't compress anymore. Same w tei2mod. Cent from my fone so theer mite be tipos. ;) On Apr 21, 2012, at 3:59 PM, "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and hope to push out a new release of SWORD. > > Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start planning. > > o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current filter sets. Any update or news on that? > > o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. Any frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on this one. > > o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. The original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code. > > o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) > > I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs > > But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked about. > > > Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! > > Troy > > > > > > > > > On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >> were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time >> soon? >> >> God bless, Barry. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From gary.holmlund at gmail.com Sat Apr 21 18:30:34 2012 From: gary.holmlund at gmail.com (Gary Holmlund) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 18:30:34 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <273FDC68-E127-4CD8-ADFA-55A5A63B2C65@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> <273FDC68-E127-4CD8-ADFA-55A5A63B2C65@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F935F3A.9070005@gmail.com> > o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) Troy, I reported this bug on this list about a month ago. I just entered a bug report about it (API-151). It is reproducible with a small program I attached to the bug. Also, I am investigating a problem in BibleTime where it sometimes can't unlock a module. It appears to be a sword problem. I will try to get more information to you in the next few days. Gary Holmlund From scribe at crosswire.org Sat Apr 21 19:56:50 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 04:56:50 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <4F935F3A.9070005@gmail.com> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> <273FDC68-E127-4CD8-ADFA-55A5A63B2C65@crosswire.org> <4F935F3A.9070005@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F937372.7030903@crosswire.org> Thanks Gary! That's awesome! I'll let you know what I find. On 04/22/2012 03:30 AM, Gary Holmlund wrote: > >> o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or >> something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have >> forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in >> #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) > Troy, > > I reported this bug on this list about a month ago. I just entered a bug > report about it (API-151). It is reproducible with a small program I > attached to the bug. > > Also, I am investigating a problem in BibleTime where it sometimes can't > unlock a module. It appears to be a sword problem. I will try to get > more information to you in the next few days. > > Gary Holmlund > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From niccarter at mac.com Sat Apr 21 20:19:02 2012 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:19:02 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1A46981D-1E66-4400-91B2-5D7B4A057A99@mac.com> My requests for v1.7? - Install Manager can download ZIP files from repos via HTTP. - proxy support for the install manager, both FTP & HTTP. - (new request) can we have the install manager conf file located in a random location & have the downloaded module conf files stored in a different location? Say I want to have my repos conf file stored somewhere permanent but the downloaded conf files for the modules saved to /var/tmp, is that currently possible? I gather they need to be in the same location atm? - (question) is there a way to retrieve a listings of all the headings in a chapter/book of the Bible? Would be cool if there was an easy way to grab that listing and then allow users to navigate directly to that heading in that book. eg: in the ESV, if I'm in Ephesians, would be cool to be able to jump straight to the "One in Christ" section. Good for that time when you're wanting to look up a certain verse about "something something" and you can quickly navigate via section headings rather than do a Bible search? Not too fussed about this, cause I can implement it myself in PS when I eventually gain permission (prayer still accepted and appreciated with regards to getting that permission, btw!) to continue working on it from my employer, but I was thinking it may be a fun thing to be in the backend to allow any front-end to be able to do this? [or is this where someone posts 3 lines and shows that it's pathetically easy with everything that's already there?] - I can hopefully find time to sort out what changes I have made to filters, as I have switched over to span tags for quite a few bits and pieces. I won't even possibly have time until the end of May, tho, so perhaps it's not something we should hope I may get to before you'll be wanting to lock down a v1.7.0 release? anyway, how loud do you want me to be? ZIP FILES OVER HTTP HTTP DOWNLOAD OF ZIPPED MODULES DOWNLOAD IN ZIP FORMAT VIA HTTP OF MODULES I'll go run away now and continue work on this Children's Lit assignment. :) picture books are generally much more fun than code... ;) Thanks, ybic nic... :) On 22/04/2012, at 5:59 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and hope to push out a new release of SWORD. > > Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start planning. > > o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current filter sets. Any update or news on that? > > o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. Any frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on this one. > > o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. The original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code. > > o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) > > I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs > > But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked about. > > > Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! > > Troy > > > > > > > > > On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >> were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time >> soon? >> >> God bless, Barry. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From info at tetzels.de Sun Apr 22 06:53:50 2012 From: info at tetzels.de (Stephan) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:53:50 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <1A46981D-1E66-4400-91B2-5D7B4A057A99@mac.com> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> <1A46981D-1E66-4400-91B2-5D7B4A057A99@mac.com> Message-ID: <4F940D6E.3090703@tetzels.de> Hi, > - Install Manager can download ZIP files from repos via HTTP. > - proxy support for the install manager, both FTP& HTTP. > ZIP FILES OVER HTTP > HTTP DOWNLOAD OF ZIPPED MODULES > DOWNLOAD IN ZIP FORMAT VIA HTTP OF MODULES +10 Stephan > On 22/04/2012, at 5:59 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > >> I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and hope to push out a new release of SWORD. >> >> Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start planning. >> >> o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current filter sets. Any update or news on that? >> >> o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. Any frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on this one. >> >> o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. The original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code. >> >> o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) >> >> I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs >> >> But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked about. >> >> >> Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >>> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >>> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >>> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >>> were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time >>> soon? >>> >>> God bless, Barry. >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Sun Apr 22 07:25:43 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:25:43 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (proxy, zip cache) In-Reply-To: <4F940D6E.3090703@tetzels.de> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> <1A46981D-1E66-4400-91B2-5D7B4A057A99@mac.com> <4F940D6E.3090703@tetzels.de> Message-ID: <3aef54a2-86cc-4d4c-8895-1a82a5307f1c@email.android.com> Any takers to implement these 2 items. To summarize an old and long discussion on this request, and what we agreed on... It is important to note exactly what this request entails and they are two very different requests. Adding proxy support to installmgr might be easy if all our transport class implementations support such. Adding the ability to use a module cache of zip files does not add any new functionality for the user of the api or the end user of a frontend. It detrimentally adds possibility for out of sync data between actual module data and the .zip bundle, and is additional work for the remote repository maintainer. Our current implementation, which allows simply any installed module to be accessible as-is via installmgr, all network infrastructure being sound, is more beneficial to end users and module maintainers than this requested additional download option. Having said this, I understand and sympathize with Nic's use case: PocketSword accommodating for poor mobile network infrastructures. We agreed to provide this functionality as module repository optional cache, similar to mods.d.tar.gz; everything works fine if not present; if the requested module has a .zip bundle cache object, then use it, otherwise download the individual files of the module, as we currently do. So, any takers? Troy -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Stephan wrote: Hi, > - Install Manager can download ZIP files from repos via HTTP. > - proxy support for the install manager, both FTP& HTTP. > ZIP FILES OVER HTTP > HTTP DOWNLOAD OF ZIPPED MODULES > DOWNLOAD IN ZIP FORMAT VIA HTTP OF MODULES +10 Stephan > On 22/04/2012, at 5:59 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > >> I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and hope to push out a new release of SWORD. >> >> Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start planning. >> >> o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current filter sets. Any update or news on that? >> >> o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. Any frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on this one. >> >> o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. The original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code. >> >> o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) >> >> I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs >> >> But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked about. >> >> >> Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >>> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >>> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >>> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >>> were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time >>> soon? >>> >>> God bless, Barry. >>> >> >> >>_____________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > >_____________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page _____________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scribe at crosswire.org Sun Apr 22 07:42:27 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:42:27 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (https) Message-ID: -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: Nice! Thanks Greg. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. Greg Hellings wrote: HTTPS transport and support for the _ character in the current HTTP transport. I believe I've identified the additional change that is needed to permit this. If it works I'll send along an updated patch for it this week. --Greg On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and hope to > push out a new release of SWORD. > > Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start > planning. > > o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current filter > sets. Any update or news on that? > > o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, > though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted Words of > Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were meant > for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. Any > frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll commit > to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure they > are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on this > one. > > o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. The > original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look into > this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. This > would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your feet > wet deep in internals of the engine code. > > o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi or > something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten > the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I couldn't > find a message thread) > > I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is entered > there: http://crosswire.org/bugs > > But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked about. > > > Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! > > Troy > > > > > > > > > On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >> >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >> were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time >> soon? >> >> God bless, Barry. >> > > >_____________________________________________ > bt-devel mailing list > bt-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel _____________________________________________ bt-devel mailing list bt-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfhmch at googlemail.com Sun Apr 22 09:10:16 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:10:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (https) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1335111016185-4578406.post@n4.nabble.com> New Testament introductions would be a useful nice to have. Currently such bookGroup introductions only work for the OT. Programming the OSIS as depicted in http://crosswire.org/wiki/OSIS_Bibles#Body for the NT causes the content of the NT introduction to be appended to Malachi. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-SWORD-1-7-https-tp4578280p4578406.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From dfhmch at googlemail.com Sun Apr 22 09:16:00 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 09:16:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 In-Reply-To: <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1335111360886-4578416.post@n4.nabble.com> Hi Troy, Please add support for a new GlobalOptionFilter=OSISDictionary (as used in xulsword). Our friend John Austin can provide the necessary code. http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/ This feature enables glossary or dictionary links in Bible modules to be toggled on/off by front-ends. It's brilliant. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-12-04-tp4577002p4578416.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From karl at kleinpaste.org Sun Apr 22 18:46:56 2012 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:46:56 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> (Barry Drake's message of "Sat, 21 Apr 2012 20:29:56 +0100") References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Barry Drake writes: > I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together > from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I wasn't aware, but you'll have to be more specific: What sort of dependency conflicts? What does apt-get complain about? From dcowens76 at gmail.com Sun Apr 22 19:20:26 2012 From: dcowens76 at gmail.com (Daniel Owens) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 21:20:26 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] [bt-devel] SWORD 1.7 - Strongs numbers In-Reply-To: <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F94BC6A.7020401@gmail.com> There is a disambiguation problem for Strongs numbers. This may be a markup question, but the engine cannot connect H0001 and 00001. The current Strong's TEI file has the former but all other modules have the latter. As a consequence the BDBGlosses_Strongs does not currently work with any Bible module. It would be nice if the engine could work this connection out. Otherwise all modules need to conform to the same standard. Daniel On 04/21/2012 02:59 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and > hope to push out a new release of SWORD. > > Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start > planning. > > o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current > filter sets. Any update or news on that? > > o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, > though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted > Words of Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but > they were meant for the frontends who would like to use them to begin > XHTML-izing them. Any frontend develops up for morphing these things > into something you'll commit to use and collaborate with the other > frontend developers to be sure they are happy with the results, as > well? Collaboration is important on this one. > > o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. > The original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can > look into this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on > this one. This would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to > start getting your feet wet deep in internals of the engine code. > > o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to Malachi > or something like this in a certain Bible module (I'm old and have > forgotten the details on this one. I think we talked about it in > #sword. I couldn't find a message thread) > > I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is > entered there: http://crosswire.org/bugs > > But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked > about. > > > Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! > > Troy > > > > > > > > > On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >> were aware of the current situation and whether this will alter any time >> soon? >> >> God bless, Barry. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > bt-devel mailing list > bt-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel > From chrislit at crosswire.org Sun Apr 22 22:44:28 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:44:28 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F94EC3C.1060004@crosswire.org> On 04/22/2012 06:46 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > Barry Drake writes: >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed together >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. > > I wasn't aware, but you'll have to be more specific: What sort of > dependency conflicts? What does apt-get complain about? I don't observe any problem installing or running BibleTime & Xiphos on 12.04. --Chris From bdrake at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 01:57:48 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:57:48 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> On 23/04/12 02:46, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > I wasn't aware, but you'll have to be more specific: What sort of > dependency conflicts? What does apt-get complain about? Specifically, the packages offered under 12.04 use libsword8 for BibleTime and libsword9 for Xiphos. If BibleTime is installed first, apt-get gives: ~$ sudo apt-get install xiphos Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done The following extra packages will be installed: libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libsword-common libsword9 xiphos-data Suggested packages: sword-text The following packages will be REMOVED bibletime libsword8 The following NEW packages will be installed libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libsword-common libsword9 xiphos xiphos-data 0 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0 B/5,108 kB of archives. After this operation, 5,543 kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue [Y/n]? Continuing (obviously) kills BibleTime. If the process is done installing Xiphos first, apt-get refuses to replace the later libsword with the earlier one and fails to install. It is clearly a packaging problem - we just need a packaged version of a later build of BibleTime. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From bdrake at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 02:05:32 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:05:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F94EC3C.1060004@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F94EC3C.1060004@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F951B5C.3030008@crosswire.org> On 23/04/12 06:44, Chris Little wrote: > I don't observe any problem installing or running BibleTime & Xiphos > on 12.04. I'm assuming you are not using the packaged binaries from the 12.04 repos since Xiphos was packaged with libsword9? God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Mon Apr 23 04:11:20 2012 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:11:20 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> Message-ID: do not mix PPAs with official archive. What do $ apt-cache policy bibletime $ apt-cache policy xiphos $ apt-cache policy libsword-dev Say? On 23 April 2012 09:57, Barry Drake wrote: > On 23/04/12 02:46, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: >> >> I wasn't aware, but you'll have to be more specific: What sort of >> dependency conflicts? What does apt-get complain about? > > > Specifically, the packages offered under 12.04 use libsword8 for BibleTime > and libsword9 for Xiphos. ?If BibleTime is installed first, apt-get gives: > ~$ sudo apt-get install xiphos > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > The following extra packages will be installed: > ?libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libsword-common libsword9 xiphos-data > Suggested packages: > ?sword-text > The following packages will be REMOVED > ?bibletime libsword8 > The following NEW packages will be installed > ?libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libsword-common libsword9 xiphos xiphos-data > 0 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded. > Need to get 0 B/5,108 kB of archives. > After this operation, 5,543 kB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue [Y/n]? > > Continuing (obviously) kills BibleTime. ?If the process is done installing > Xiphos first, apt-get refuses to replace the later libsword with the earlier > one and fails to install. ?It is clearly a packaging problem - we just need > a packaged version of a later build of BibleTime. > > > God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. > > -- > From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East > Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. ?See > http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and > http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. > > Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From bdrake at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 04:40:33 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:40:33 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: > do not mix PPAs with official archive. > I understand that. What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem in the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. I'm asking whoever is responsible for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. I know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of this week so I'm doing some final testing! The new user of 12.04 is NOT going to look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - and get the conflict. God bless, Barry. -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. http://ubuntuadverts.org/ From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Mon Apr 23 04:59:28 2012 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:59:28 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On 23 April 2012 12:40, Barry Drake wrote: > On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >> >> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >> > > I understand that. ?What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem in > the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. ?I'm asking whoever is responsible > for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. ?I > know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of this > week so I'm doing some final testing! ?The new user of 12.04 is NOT going to > look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - and > get the conflict. > You did not provide the information I have asked you for. Unfortunatly I will not be able to assist you further to resolve dependency problem on your machine. The Ubuntu 12.04 archive is correct: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/amd64/bibletime/2.8.1-2build1 it depends on libsword9. currently PPA is broken, because of the ABI break in the 1.6.2, hence libsword8 is borked in the PPA. You may want to use ppa-purge to test the packages, as they are in the Ubuntu 12.04 archive. This mailing list is not appropriate place for third-party / distribution specific bugs: * bugs in Debian: bugs.debian.org or report-bug * bugs in Ubuntu: launchpad.net/ubuntu or ubuntu-bug * bugs in PPA: pkg-crosswire-devel at lists.alioth.debian.org or launchpad maintainers & respective distribution QA teams monitor above. I only occasionally follow sword-devel. Developers of sword-devel do not upload packages to debian/ubuntu/ppa Regards, Dmitrijs. From greg.hellings at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 05:49:42 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:49:42 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is named libsword8. There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and will therefore require libsword9. If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos to get the conflict you indicated. --Greg On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake wrote: > On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >> >> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >> > > I understand that. ?What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem in > the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. ?I'm asking whoever is responsible > for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. ?I > know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of this > week so I'm doing some final testing! ?The new user of 12.04 is NOT going to > look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - and > get the conflict. > > God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. > > -- > Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. > http://ubuntuadverts.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 06:07:56 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:07:56 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> Not disputing any of this, but I'm curious why BT can't compile against SVN. I don't believe we've intentionally made any API interface changes in a while, and we try our hardest to be backward compatible. If you let me know, I can have a look at what we broke. Troy On 04/23/2012 02:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current > SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. > > BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against > SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is > named libsword8. > > There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be > built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our > current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version > which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why > we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 > (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of > BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and > will therefore require libsword9. > > If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs > with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing > the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos > to get the conflict you indicated. > > --Greg > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake wrote: >> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>> >>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>> >> >> I understand that. What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem in >> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. I'm asking whoever is responsible >> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. I >> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of this >> week so I'm doing some final testing! The new user of 12.04 is NOT going to >> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - and >> get the conflict. >> >> God bless, Barry. >> >> -- >> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From dfhmch at googlemail.com Mon Apr 23 06:13:15 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 06:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Threads - in this mailing list (and in general) Message-ID: <1335186795848-4580358.post@n4.nabble.com> Gentle Reminder: If you wish to discuss a different topic, it's always sensible to start a NEW thread, rather than to reply to an existing thread in the mailing list, even if you change the subject line. Email headers include lines to enable email clients to group messages in threads. So it's not as easy to organize things when topics are jumbled. Best regards, David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Threads-in-this-mailing-list-and-in-general-tp4580358p4580358.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From greg.hellings at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 06:14:48 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 08:14:48 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Not disputing any of this, but I'm curious why BT can't compile against SVN. > ?I don't believe we've intentionally made any API interface changes in a > while, and we try our hardest to be backward compatible. ?If you let me > know, I can have a look at what we broke. > BibleTime will not compile against a deprecated API and there is one place where you've deprecated a method in favor of its new camel-cased version. We maintain a git branch with the necessary updates, but we don't want to release that branch as it would break compat with the current released SWORD (which is what we package on Windows and Mac). The refusal to build against deprecated APIs is a policy choice selected by Jaak which the rest of the developers agreed was desirable. --Greg > Troy > > > On 04/23/2012 02:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current >> SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. >> >> BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against >> SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is >> named libsword8. >> >> There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be >> built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our >> current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version >> which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why >> we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 >> (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of >> BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and >> will therefore require libsword9. >> >> If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs >> with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing >> the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos >> to get the conflict you indicated. >> >> --Greg >> >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake ?wrote: >>> >>> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>>> >>> >>> I understand that. ?What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem >>> in >>> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. ?I'm asking whoever is >>> responsible >>> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. >>> ?I >>> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of >>> this >>> week so I'm doing some final testing! ?The new user of 12.04 is NOT going >>> to >>> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - >>> and >>> get the conflict. >>> >>> God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. >>> >>> -- >>> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >>> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 06:46:06 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:46:06 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F955D1E.3040804@crosswire.org> Not disputing the long term desire to not build against deprecated API methods (that's why we deprecate), and I certainly understand the policy to not release Bibletime until it is not using any deprecated methods of the most recent SWORD library, but I can't see how it is useful to cause Bibletime to fail building for an end user once it is released. If Bibletime x.y.z is released which enforces this policy against SWORD a.b.c and we subsequently release SWORD a.b.d which is binary compatible with a.b but which adds deprecation notices to additional method, then Bibletime x.y is violating the policy and won't build for any user who simply wants to upgrade their SWORD engine. Could the check be added as a developer build option, so you can still enforce it inhouse, but it wouldn't be forced on the end users? Just a thought. Troy On 04/23/2012 03:14 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> Not disputing any of this, but I'm curious why BT can't compile against SVN. >> I don't believe we've intentionally made any API interface changes in a >> while, and we try our hardest to be backward compatible. If you let me >> know, I can have a look at what we broke. >> > > BibleTime will not compile against a deprecated API and there is one > place where you've deprecated a method in favor of its new camel-cased > version. We maintain a git branch with the necessary updates, but we > don't want to release that branch as it would break compat with the > current released SWORD (which is what we package on Windows and Mac). > > The refusal to build against deprecated APIs is a policy choice > selected by Jaak which the rest of the developers agreed was > desirable. > > --Greg > >> Troy >> >> >> On 04/23/2012 02:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >>> >>> Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current >>> SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. >>> >>> BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against >>> SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is >>> named libsword8. >>> >>> There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be >>> built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our >>> current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version >>> which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why >>> we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 >>> (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of >>> BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and >>> will therefore require libsword9. >>> >>> If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs >>> with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing >>> the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos >>> to get the conflict you indicated. >>> >>> --Greg >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake wrote: >>>> >>>> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I understand that. What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem >>>> in >>>> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. I'm asking whoever is >>>> responsible >>>> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. >>>> I >>>> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of >>>> this >>>> week so I'm doing some final testing! The new user of 12.04 is NOT going >>>> to >>>> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - >>>> and >>>> get the conflict. >>>> >>>> God bless, Barry. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >>>> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From bdrake at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 07:14:26 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:14:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> On 23/04/12 13:49, Greg Hellings wrote: > If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs > with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing > the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos > to get the conflict you indicated. You are right of course. Back when 12.04 was in Alpha, the Xiphos that was then in the 12.04 repo was broken. I'd temporarily taken Xiphos from the official ppa, and although I'd removed it (I thought) I was still taking Xiphos from the official ppa and BibleTime from the launchpad ppa. I ought to have checked a bit more thoroughly. I've cleared the apt cache now and I'm certain there are no references to the crosswire ppa. I now have both BibleTime and Xiphos installed on my netbook which I have just upgraded to 12.04 .... and also on my desktop. Sorry to ask a stupid question and thanks for your patience. The information Dmitrijs asked me for did give me the information I needed to sort the problem. God bless, Barry. -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From greg.hellings at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 07:35:36 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:35:36 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F955D1E.3040804@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> <4F955D1E.3040804@crosswire.org> Message-ID: >From the CMakeLists.txt file: SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_RELEASE "-Wall -O2 -fexceptions") SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_DEBUG "-Wall -Werror -O2 -ggdb -fexceptions") It is the -Werror switch, only enabled in Debug builds, that causes the deprecation warnings to be show stoppers. Last I checked Debian demands to build with "-Wall -Werror" and debugging flags (Dmitriijs has thrown The Debian Book at me several times for circumventing that build policy in my CMakeLists.txt files; apparently Debian knows better than its application and library developers what flags its applications and libraries need when building) and will strip out debugging post-build. So the problem isn't actually BibleTime's but Debian's. Also, because us developers (almost) always build Debug, we don't build against SWORD SVN and haven't vetted against it as well as we would like so we don't encourage building BT against SVN. I only ever build against SVN and haven't noticed a problem, but we still don't encourage it. --Greg On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Not disputing the long term desire to not build against deprecated API > methods (that's why we deprecate), and I certainly understand the policy to > not release Bibletime until it is not using any deprecated methods of the > most recent SWORD library, but I can't see how it is useful to cause > Bibletime to fail building for an end user once it is released. > > If > Bibletime x.y.z is released which enforces this policy against > SWORD a.b.c and we subsequently release > SWORD a.b.d which is binary compatible with a.b but which adds deprecation > notices to additional method, then Bibletime x.y is violating the policy and > won't build for any user who simply wants to upgrade their SWORD engine. > > Could the check be added as a developer build option, so you can still > enforce it inhouse, but it wouldn't be forced on the end users? > > Just a thought. > > Troy > > > > > On 04/23/2012 03:14 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Troy A. Griffitts >> ?wrote: >>> >>> Not disputing any of this, but I'm curious why BT can't compile against >>> SVN. >>> ?I don't believe we've intentionally made any API interface changes in a >>> while, and we try our hardest to be backward compatible. ?If you let me >>> know, I can have a look at what we broke. >>> >> >> BibleTime will not compile against a deprecated API and there is one >> place where you've deprecated a method in favor of its new camel-cased >> version. We maintain a git branch with the necessary updates, but we >> don't want to release that branch as it would break compat with the >> current released SWORD (which is what we package on Windows and Mac). >> >> The refusal to build against deprecated APIs is a policy choice >> selected by Jaak which the rest of the developers agreed was >> desirable. >> >> --Greg >> >>> Troy >>> >>> >>> On 04/23/2012 02:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current >>>> SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. >>>> >>>> BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against >>>> SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is >>>> named libsword8. >>>> >>>> There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be >>>> built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our >>>> current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version >>>> which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why >>>> we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 >>>> (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of >>>> BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and >>>> will therefore require libsword9. >>>> >>>> If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs >>>> with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing >>>> the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos >>>> to get the conflict you indicated. >>>> >>>> --Greg >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake >>>> ?wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I understand that. ?What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem >>>>> in >>>>> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. ?I'm asking whoever is >>>>> responsible >>>>> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. >>>>> ?I >>>>> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of >>>>> this >>>>> week so I'm doing some final testing! ?The new user of 12.04 is NOT >>>>> going >>>>> to >>>>> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - >>>>> and >>>>> get the conflict. >>>>> >>>>> God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >>>>> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 07:48:56 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:48:56 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> <4F955D1E.3040804@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F956BD8.8000702@crosswire.org> Awesome. So it is as I suggested. A user who downloads and builds Bibletime, not in debug mode, wouldn't see the error, and they would be able to upgrade their SWORD library without running into the problem? Cooleo. Thanks for the details. On 04/23/2012 04:35 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >> From the CMakeLists.txt file: > > SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_RELEASE "-Wall -O2 -fexceptions") > SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_DEBUG "-Wall -Werror -O2 -ggdb -fexceptions") > > It is the -Werror switch, only enabled in Debug builds, that causes > the deprecation warnings to be show stoppers. Last I checked Debian > demands to build with "-Wall -Werror" and debugging flags (Dmitriijs > has thrown The Debian Book at me several times for circumventing that > build policy in my CMakeLists.txt files; apparently Debian knows > better than its application and library developers what flags its > applications and libraries need when building) and will strip out > debugging post-build. So the problem isn't actually BibleTime's but > Debian's. > > Also, because us developers (almost) always build Debug, we don't > build against SWORD SVN and haven't vetted against it as well as we > would like so we don't encourage building BT against SVN. I only ever > build against SVN and haven't noticed a problem, but we still don't > encourage it. > > --Greg > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> Not disputing the long term desire to not build against deprecated API >> methods (that's why we deprecate), and I certainly understand the policy to >> not release Bibletime until it is not using any deprecated methods of the >> most recent SWORD library, but I can't see how it is useful to cause >> Bibletime to fail building for an end user once it is released. >> >> If >> Bibletime x.y.z is released which enforces this policy against >> SWORD a.b.c and we subsequently release >> SWORD a.b.d which is binary compatible with a.b but which adds deprecation >> notices to additional method, then Bibletime x.y is violating the policy and >> won't build for any user who simply wants to upgrade their SWORD engine. >> >> Could the check be added as a developer build option, so you can still >> enforce it inhouse, but it wouldn't be forced on the end users? >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> On 04/23/2012 03:14 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Troy A. Griffitts >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Not disputing any of this, but I'm curious why BT can't compile against >>>> SVN. >>>> I don't believe we've intentionally made any API interface changes in a >>>> while, and we try our hardest to be backward compatible. If you let me >>>> know, I can have a look at what we broke. >>>> >>> >>> BibleTime will not compile against a deprecated API and there is one >>> place where you've deprecated a method in favor of its new camel-cased >>> version. We maintain a git branch with the necessary updates, but we >>> don't want to release that branch as it would break compat with the >>> current released SWORD (which is what we package on Windows and Mac). >>> >>> The refusal to build against deprecated APIs is a policy choice >>> selected by Jaak which the rest of the developers agreed was >>> desirable. >>> >>> --Greg >>> >>>> Troy >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04/23/2012 02:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current >>>>> SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. >>>>> >>>>> BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against >>>>> SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is >>>>> named libsword8. >>>>> >>>>> There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be >>>>> built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our >>>>> current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version >>>>> which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why >>>>> we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 >>>>> (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of >>>>> BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and >>>>> will therefore require libsword9. >>>>> >>>>> If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs >>>>> with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing >>>>> the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos >>>>> to get the conflict you indicated. >>>>> >>>>> --Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand that. What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem >>>>>> in >>>>>> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. I'm asking whoever is >>>>>> responsible >>>>>> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. >>>>>> I >>>>>> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of >>>>>> this >>>>>> week so I'm doing some final testing! The new user of 12.04 is NOT >>>>>> going >>>>>> to >>>>>> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - >>>>>> and >>>>>> get the conflict. >>>>>> >>>>>> God bless, Barry. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >>>>>> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From info at tetzels.de Mon Apr 23 07:58:16 2012 From: info at tetzels.de (Stephan) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:58:16 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper In-Reply-To: References: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F956E08.8010605@tetzels.de> Hi, I was able to build sword for NaCl, but there are many things to fix because NaCl doesn't support local filesystem access. I got warnigs about "pthread_cancel", because that's not implemented in NaCl. There is also no port for curl, so I think you have to rewrite the InstallMgr to use the NaCl/Pepper API to get files from the web. Or use javascript to get the modules (maybe zipped) and unpack them. Seems to be some work to do... =) Best Regards, Stephan From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Mon Apr 23 08:14:18 2012 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:14:18 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On 23 April 2012 13:49, Greg Hellings wrote: > Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current > SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. > Xiphos 3.1.5 does not require Sword SVN, only recommends it. (I did the build script for xiphos) libsword9 is not svn of sword. It is still 1.6.2. The soname version bump was required due to ABI brackage in 1.6.2 errorsly named libsword8. (the ABI incompatability was not noticed early enough basically.) > BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against > SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is > named libsword8. > Note that ubuntu archive has 2.8.1-2build1. It built fine against sword 1.6.2/libsword9 > There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be > built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our > current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version > which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why > we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 > (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of > BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and > will therefore require libsword9. > libsword9 is correct soname in Debian for sword 1.6.2. Pkg-crosswire-devel packaging team has not yet decided on the soname for sword 1.7 yet. And it doesn't matter for now, since sword 1.7 is not released yet. I am inclined to switch to libsword-1.7.0.so now that it is allowed by the debian policy. Since we didn't have a stable abi release, since I got involved in packaging sword for debian. I do not track Bibletime's git, so I have no comments about what it does / doesn't build against. > If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs > with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing > the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos > to get the conflict you indicated. > For precise release: - sword & xiphos have higher version in Ubuntu Archive - bibletime does not I will need to re-upload bibletime 2.9.1 into the PPA or Ubuntu Archive to rebuild against libsword9. Regards, Dmitrijs > --Greg > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake wrote: >> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>> >>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>> >> >> I understand that. ?What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem in >> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. ?I'm asking whoever is responsible >> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. ?I >> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of this >> week so I'm doing some final testing! ?The new user of 12.04 is NOT going to >> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - and >> get the conflict. >> >> God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. >> >> -- >> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Mon Apr 23 08:17:02 2012 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:17:02 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On 23 April 2012 15:14, Barry Drake wrote: > On 23/04/12 13:49, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs >> with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing >> the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos >> to get the conflict you indicated. > > > You are right of course. ?Back when 12.04 was in Alpha, the Xiphos that was > then in the 12.04 repo was broken. ?I'd temporarily taken Xiphos from the > official ppa, and although I'd removed it (I thought) I was still taking > Xiphos from the official ppa and BibleTime from the launchpad ppa. ?I ought > to have checked a bit more thoroughly. ?I've cleared the apt cache now and > I'm certain there are no references to the crosswire ppa. ?I now have both > BibleTime and Xiphos installed on my netbook which I have just upgraded to > 12.04 .... ?and also on my desktop. ?Sorry to ask a stupid question and > thanks for your patience. > > The information Dmitrijs asked me for did give me the information I needed > to sort the problem. > I'm glad you got sorted it out =)))) Mixing development repositories, can lead to all sort of weird stuff. At one point I had an acient sword build installed into /usr/local and boy did that cause trouble!!! Regards, Dmitrijs. > > God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. > > -- > From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East > Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. ?See > http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and > http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. > > Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Mon Apr 23 08:20:15 2012 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:20:15 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F95542C.7070002@crosswire.org> <4F955D1E.3040804@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On 23 April 2012 15:35, Greg Hellings wrote: > From the CMakeLists.txt file: > > ? ?SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_RELEASE "-Wall -O2 -fexceptions") > ? ?SET(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS_DEBUG ? "-Wall -Werror -O2 -ggdb -fexceptions") > > It is the -Werror switch, only enabled in Debug builds, that causes > the deprecation warnings to be show stoppers. Last I checked Debian > demands to build with "-Wall -Werror" and debugging flags (Dmitriijs > has thrown The Debian Book at me several times for circumventing that > build policy in my CMakeLists.txt files; apparently Debian knows > better than its application and library developers what flags its > applications and libraries need when building) and will strip out > debugging post-build. So the problem isn't actually BibleTime's but > Debian's. > Hmmm.... let's just be clean on this =)))) Yes, debian by default builds with debug symbols but we then strip them into separate package. -Wall -Werror is a good measure against newer gcc. Because a warning *now* may turn into an error in gcc+1. (you may have noticed I sometimes yank -Werror out, just to get it build against gcc-snapshot/gcc+1) Regards, Dmitrijs. > Also, because us developers (almost) always build Debug, we don't > build against SWORD SVN and haven't vetted against it as well as we > would like so we don't encourage building BT against SVN. I only ever > build against SVN and haven't noticed a problem, but we still don't > encourage it. > > --Greg > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> Not disputing the long term desire to not build against deprecated API >> methods (that's why we deprecate), and I certainly understand the policy to >> not release Bibletime until it is not using any deprecated methods of the >> most recent SWORD library, but I can't see how it is useful to cause >> Bibletime to fail building for an end user once it is released. >> >> If >> Bibletime x.y.z is released which enforces this policy against >> SWORD a.b.c and we subsequently release >> SWORD a.b.d which is binary compatible with a.b but which adds deprecation >> notices to additional method, then Bibletime x.y is violating the policy and >> won't build for any user who simply wants to upgrade their SWORD engine. >> >> Could the check be added as a developer build option, so you can still >> enforce it inhouse, but it wouldn't be forced on the end users? >> >> Just a thought. >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> On 04/23/2012 03:14 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Troy A. Griffitts >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> Not disputing any of this, but I'm curious why BT can't compile against >>>> SVN. >>>> ?I don't believe we've intentionally made any API interface changes in a >>>> while, and we try our hardest to be backward compatible. ?If you let me >>>> know, I can have a look at what we broke. >>>> >>> >>> BibleTime will not compile against a deprecated API and there is one >>> place where you've deprecated a method in favor of its new camel-cased >>> version. We maintain a git branch with the necessary updates, but we >>> don't want to release that branch as it would break compat with the >>> current released SWORD (which is what we package on Windows and Mac). >>> >>> The refusal to build against deprecated APIs is a policy choice >>> selected by Jaak which the rest of the developers agreed was >>> desirable. >>> >>> --Greg >>> >>>> Troy >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04/23/2012 02:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Xiphos 3.1.5 requires SWORD SVN. In the Crosswire Ubuntu PPA current >>>>> SVN of SWORD is named libsword9. >>>>> >>>>> BibleTime 2.9.1 cannot be built against SWORD SVN but only against >>>>> SWORD 1.6.2. In Ubuntu's current release this version of SWORD is >>>>> named libsword8. >>>>> >>>>> There is a branch in BibleTime's git repository which allows it to be >>>>> built against SWORD's SVN, but because of API changes since then our >>>>> current trunk cannot be built. BibleTime will not release a version >>>>> which is incompatible with the current SWORD release and that is why >>>>> we requested that Troy cut a new release of SWORD. Once SWORD 1.7 >>>>> (libsword9 in Ubuntu/Debian parlance) is released the next version of >>>>> BibleTime released after that will be compatible with the new API and >>>>> will therefore require libsword9. >>>>> >>>>> If you want to get more to the bottom of it, try providing Dmitrijs >>>>> with the information he specified, but it sounds like you are drawing >>>>> the official Ubuntu package of BibleTime and the PPA package of Xiphos >>>>> to get the conflict you indicated. >>>>> >>>>> --Greg >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 6:40 AM, Barry Drake >>>>> ?wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 23/04/12 12:11, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> do not mix PPAs with official archive. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand that. ?What I'm doing is reporting that there is a problem >>>>>> in >>>>>> the packages held in Ubuntu 12.04 repo. ?I'm asking whoever is >>>>>> responsible >>>>>> for submissions to Ubuntu to get things up to date as soon as possible. >>>>>> ?I >>>>>> know the official packages are OK but 12.04 is released on Thursday of >>>>>> this >>>>>> week so I'm doing some final testing! ?The new user of 12.04 is NOT >>>>>> going >>>>>> to >>>>>> look for the official ppa but will simply use Ubuntu Software Centre - >>>>>> and >>>>>> get the conflict. >>>>>> >>>>>> God bless, ? ? ? ?Barry. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. >>>>>> http://ubuntuadverts.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From greg.hellings at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 08:37:30 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:37:30 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper In-Reply-To: <4F956E08.8010605@tetzels.de> References: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> <4F956E08.8010605@tetzels.de> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Stephan wrote: > Hi, > > I was able to build sword for NaCl, but there are many things to fix because > NaCl doesn't support local filesystem access. I got warnigs about > "pthread_cancel", because that's not implemented in NaCl. > Is your NaCl designed to run off a web page or as a Chrome plugin? I thought filesystem access was available to NaCl clients in plugins but not ones loaded from the web? > There is also no port for curl, so I think you have to rewrite the > InstallMgr to use the NaCl/Pepper API to get files from the web. Or use > javascript to get the modules (maybe zipped) and unpack them. Did you try building the normal cURL library for NaCl? I would imagine that it would compile same as SWORD does. Additionally, you don't need cURL to be able to download and install modules. SWORD has an included FTP library, which is the required transport for SWORD repositories (HTTP support is optional). That should run regardless of the presence of cURL. --Greg From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 09:22:45 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 18:22:45 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper In-Reply-To: <4F956E08.8010605@tetzels.de> References: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> <4F956E08.8010605@tetzels.de> Message-ID: <4F9581D5.5040109@crosswire.org> On 04/23/2012 04:58 PM, Stephan wrote: > Hi, > > I was able to build sword for NaCl, but there are many things to fix > because NaCl doesn't support local filesystem access. WinCE doesn't support 'normal' filesystem access either. Most File IO is isolated to the FileMgr class and for WinCE, we supply the other methods needed to use the OS's custom calls. We could use this as a model and do the same for NaCl. http://crosswire.org/svn/swordreader/trunk/src/Dll1/winceSword/src/ > I got warnings > about "pthread_cancel", because that's not implemented in NaCl. To my knowledge, we don't use pthread_* in our code. Not sure where this thing is coming from. Thanks for the effort! Troy > > There is also no port for curl, so I think you have to rewrite the > InstallMgr to use the NaCl/Pepper API to get files from the web. Or use > javascript to get the modules (maybe zipped) and unpack them. > > Seems to be some work to do... =) > > Best Regards, > Stephan > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From greg.hellings at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 09:26:31 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:26:31 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Native Client - NaCL and Pepper In-Reply-To: <4F9581D5.5040109@crosswire.org> References: <4F916CC0.20202@tetzels.de> <4F916F7B.2090901@crosswire.org> <4F956E08.8010605@tetzels.de> <4F9581D5.5040109@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > To my knowledge, we don't use pthread_* in our code. ?Not sure where this > thing is coming from. Only occurrence is in the thread_search example application. --Greg From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 09:55:58 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:55:58 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT Message-ID: I've been playing with the following module: http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in appearance by tags such as divineName, foreign, From refdoc at gmx.net Mon Apr 23 10:03:06 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:03:06 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120423170306.3220@gmx.net> Hi Andrew, There is a document published on OSIS which will give you the low down and nitty gritty of all marking up. It is linked to from the Wiki - I am in a rush and can not dig it out, but it should be obvious enough. What you probably should use for OT quotes and for messianic predictions would be a crossreference note, Peter -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:55:58 -0400 > Von: Andrew Thule > An: sword-devel at crosswire.org > Betreff: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT > I've been playing with the following module: > http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > > Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in appearance by > tags such as divineName, foreign, References" in the OT for example, (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), what > would be the preferable way of doing this? > > ~Andrew -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de From refdoc at gmx.net Mon Apr 23 10:03:06 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:03:06 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120423170306.3220@gmx.net> Hi Andrew, There is a document published on OSIS which will give you the low down and nitty gritty of all marking up. It is linked to from the Wiki - I am in a rush and can not dig it out, but it should be obvious enough. What you probably should use for OT quotes and for messianic predictions would be a crossreference note, Peter -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:55:58 -0400 > Von: Andrew Thule > An: sword-devel at crosswire.org > Betreff: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT > I've been playing with the following module: > http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > > Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in appearance by > tags such as divineName, foreign, References" in the OT for example, (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), what > would be the preferable way of doing this? > > ~Andrew -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 11:03:32 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:03:32 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: <20120423170306.3220@gmx.net> References: <20120423170306.3220@gmx.net> Message-ID: Thanks Peter .. I have looked over the OSIS document and been overwhelmed by the options. I seems to me to be two related strategies; consistently alter text in a visible way (as the red-letter quote seems to do), or group text into class types (as the foreign or divinename tags seem to do). Your cross-reference note is a good one for inter-text connectivity. Are there additional ways to set apart groups of particular texts, as related (as the > References" in the OT for example, (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), what > > would be the preferable way of doing this? > > > > ~Andrew > > -- > Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir > belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfhmch at googlemail.com Mon Apr 23 11:36:13 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 11:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD v1.7 roadmap ? Message-ID: <1335206173113-4581348.post@n4.nabble.com> This is really for Troy - but posted here to allow others to comment. Would it help to have a wiki page to act as a SWORD v1.7 roadmap ? Two main sections: == Bug fixes == == New features == etc. One of the difficulties in having ideas scattered in a mailing list (or even in an issues tracker) is to be able to "see the wood for the trees". Or you might even want something simple to use as an online collaboration tool, such as http://trello.com/ David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/SWORD-v1-7-roadmap-tp4581348p4581348.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 12:09:04 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:09:04 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F95A8D0.3040608@crosswire.org> On 04/23/2012 06:55 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: > I've been playing with the following module: > http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > > > Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in appearance > by tags such as divineName, foreign, References" in the OT for example, probably as Peter suggested, simply use a note with a catchWord to identify exactly the text. > (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), new testament quote/allusion to old testament verse and probably a included to footnote the verses as suggested by Peter. You might also include the global annotateRef="osisRef" on the seg to indicate the OT passages, but this is mostly meant for commentaries of other works. I guess you could consider the NT a commentary on the OT :) But we probably wouldn't ever expect that attribute to be there. Hope that gets you started. Troy > what would be the preferable way of doing this? > > ~Andrew > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 12:11:05 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:11:05 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD v1.7 roadmap ? In-Reply-To: <1335206173113-4581348.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1335206173113-4581348.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4F95A949.4040503@crosswire.org> Thanks David, Maybe if I was organized, but we'd use the roadmap features in Jira if we did. Having things in the bug tracker is the best place for this. The tools are there to do what you suggest. I just haven't gotten around to scheduling bugs for releases or updating the current roadmap for about 7 years :) I wonder if we're anywhere close to being on track. Troy On 04/23/2012 08:36 PM, David Haslam wrote: > This is really for Troy - but posted here to allow others to comment. > > Would it help to have a wiki page to act as a SWORD v1.7 roadmap ? > > Two main sections: > > == Bug fixes == > > == New features == > > etc. > > One of the difficulties in having ideas scattered in a mailing list (or even > in an issues tracker) is to be able to "see the wood for the trees". > > Or you might even want something simple to use as an online collaboration > tool, such as http://trello.com/ > > David > > -- > View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/SWORD-v1-7-roadmap-tp4581348p4581348.html > Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From thulester at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 12:28:16 2012 From: thulester at gmail.com (Andrew Thule) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:28:16 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: <4F95A8D0.3040608@crosswire.org> References: <4F95A8D0.3040608@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Yes, thanks very much Troy - it does (get me started). ~Andrew On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > On 04/23/2012 06:55 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: > >> I've been playing with the following module: >> http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/**kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip >> >> > >> >> >> Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in appearance >> by tags such as divineName, foreign, > References" in the OT for example, >> > > probably as Peter suggested, simply use a note with a catchWord to > identify exactly the text. > > > (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), >> > > new testament quote/allusion to old testament > verse > > and probably a included to footnote the > verses as suggested by Peter. You might also include the global > annotateRef="osisRef" on the seg to indicate the OT passages, but this is > mostly meant for commentaries of other works. I guess you could consider > the NT a commentary on the OT :) But we probably wouldn't ever expect that > attribute to be there. > > Hope that gets you started. > > Troy > > what would be the preferable way of doing this? >> >> ~Andrew >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/**mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdrake at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 12:51:17 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:51:17 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F95B2B5.60907@crosswire.org> On 23/04/12 16:17, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: > The information Dmitrijs asked me for did give me the information I needed > to sort the problem. > > I'm glad you got sorted it out =)))) > Mixing development repositories, can lead to all sort of weird stuff. Yes. Thanks for all the help on this one. I think it's led me to a weird bug in BibleTime though. Please try this: In Bibletime, open the NET bible. Hover over a footnote. The footnote is properly displayed in the mag. Now close BibleTime and re-open. I my case, the notes are no longer displayed in the mag until NET is closed and re-opened. Can anyone confirm this? God bless, -- From Barry Drake (The Revd) Health and Healing advisor to the East Midlands Synod of the United Reformed Church. See http://www.urc5.org.uk/index for information about the synod, and http://www.urc5.org.uk/?q=node/703 for the Synod Healing pages. Replies - b.drake at ntlworld.com From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Apr 23 12:51:32 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:51:32 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: References: <4F95A8D0.3040608@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F95B2C4.8020600@crosswire.org> I forgot to mention that is generic for 'segment' and the type attribute, like other types, allows an 'x-' prefix for your own custom type, so, worst case, you could always mark things as, e.g., some encouraging verse text here But typically x- tags won't ever be recognized as anything specific by OSIS software. If you want to be an OSIS-validating doc with some of your own markup, then this would be a way to do it. Troy On 04/23/2012 09:28 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: > Yes, thanks very much Troy - it does (get me started). > > ~Andrew > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Troy A. Griffitts > wrote: > > On 04/23/2012 06:55 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: > > I've been playing with the following module: > http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/__kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > > > > > > Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in > appearance > by tags such as divineName, foreign, References" in the OT for example, > > > probably as Peter suggested, simply use a note with a catchWord to > identify exactly the text. > > > (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), > > > new testament quote/allusion to old testament > verse > > and probably a included to footnote the > verses as suggested by Peter. You might also include the global > annotateRef="osisRef" on the seg to indicate the OT passages, but > this is mostly meant for commentaries of other works. I guess you > could consider the NT a commentary on the OT :) But we probably > wouldn't ever expect that attribute to be there. > > Hope that gets you started. > > Troy > > what would be the preferable way of doing this? > > ~Andrew > > > > _________________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/__mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _________________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/__mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From brian.j.dumont at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 13:47:18 2012 From: brian.j.dumont at gmail.com (Brian J Dumont) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 16:47:18 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F95B2B5.60907@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> <4F95B2B5.60907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F95BFD6.5060208@gmail.com> On 04/23/2012 03:51 PM, Barry Drake wrote: > On 23/04/12 16:17, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >> The information Dmitrijs asked me for did give me the information I >> needed >> to sort the problem. >> >> I'm glad you got sorted it out =)))) >> Mixing development repositories, can lead to all sort of weird stuff. > > Yes. Thanks for all the help on this one. I think it's led me to a > weird bug in BibleTime though. Please try this: In Bibletime, open > the NET bible. Hover over a footnote. The footnote is properly > displayed in the mag. Now close BibleTime and re-open. I my case, > the notes are no longer displayed in the mag until NET is closed and > re-opened. Can anyone confirm this? > > God bless, > This does not happen on my installation. Linux Mint 12 x86_64 running Dima's PPA packages -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The question is not "Have you accepted Jesus into your heart", but "Has Jesus accepted you into His heart?"; not "have you given your whole life for God", but "has God given His whole life for you" - Pr Bryan Wolfmueller, 2010 From dhowens at pmbx.net Mon Apr 23 17:26:40 2012 From: dhowens at pmbx.net (Daniel Owens) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 19:26:40 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F95B2B5.60907@crosswire.org> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> <4F95B2B5.60907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F95F340.4090207@pmbx.net> On 04/23/2012 02:51 PM, Barry Drake wrote: > On 23/04/12 16:17, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: >> The information Dmitrijs asked me for did give me the information I >> needed >> to sort the problem. >> >> I'm glad you got sorted it out =)))) >> Mixing development repositories, can lead to all sort of weird stuff. > > Yes. Thanks for all the help on this one. I think it's led me to a > weird bug in BibleTime though. Please try this: In Bibletime, open > the NET bible. Hover over a footnote. The footnote is properly > displayed in the mag. Now close BibleTime and re-open. I my case, > the notes are no longer displayed in the mag until NET is closed and > re-opened. Can anyone confirm this? > > God bless, > I cannot confirm this in 2.9.1. It works as expected, but I am testing only with the NETfree module. I really should buy the whole thing. It is a great resource. Daniel From refdoc at gmx.net Mon Apr 23 23:44:14 2012 From: refdoc at gmx.net (=?utf-8?B?cmVmZG9jQGdteC5uZXQ=?=) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 07:44:14 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] =?utf-8?q?Suggestions=3A_Red-Letter_type_Mark_Up_fo?= =?utf-8?q?r_Messianic_References_in_OT?= Message-ID: Bibledit's source has among its resources a list of all OT passages in the new testament. Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Andrew Thule" To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 8:28 pm Yes, thanks very much Troy - it does (get me started). ~Andrew On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: On 04/23/2012 06:55 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: I've been playing with the following module: http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in appearance by tags such as ?divineName, foreign, new testament quote/allusion to old testament verse and probably a included to footnote the verses as suggested by Peter. ?You might also include the global annotateRef="osisRef" on the seg to indicate the OT passages, but this is mostly meant for commentaries of other works. ?I guess you could consider the NT a commentary on the OT :) ?But we probably wouldn't ever expect that attribute to be there. Hope that gets you started. Troy what would be the preferable way of doing this? ~Andrew _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Tue Apr 24 00:39:42 2012 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 00:39:42 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for Messianic References in OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F9658BE.7000507@crosswire.org> Isn't this essentially what the OTPassage module is? (It's in the beta repository, but can probably be moved to main.) --Chris On 4/23/2012 11:44 PM, refdoc at gmx.net wrote: > Bibledit's source has among its resources a list of all OT passages in > the new testament. > > Sent from my HTC > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Andrew Thule" > To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" > Subject: [sword-devel] Suggestions: Red-Letter type Mark Up for > Messianic References in OT > Date: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 8:28 pm > > > Yes, thanks very much Troy - it does (get me started). > > ~Andrew > > On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Troy A. Griffitts > wrote: > > On 04/23/2012 06:55 PM, Andrew Thule wrote: > > I've been playing with the following module: > http://crosswire.org/~dmsmith/__kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > > > > > > Specifically, I've been looking at how text is 'altered' in > appearance > by tags such as divineName, foreign, References" in the OT for example, > > > probably as Peter suggested, simply use a note with a catchWord to > identify exactly the text. > > > (or perhaps OT quotes in the NT), > > > new testament quote/allusion to old testament > verse > > and probably a included to footnote the > verses as suggested by Peter. You might also include the global > annotateRef="osisRef" on the seg to indicate the OT passages, but > this is mostly meant for commentaries of other works. I guess you > could consider the NT a commentary on the OT :) But we probably > wouldn't ever expect that attribute to be there. > > Hope that gets you started. > > Troy > > what would be the preferable way of doing this? > > ~Andrew > > > > _________________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/__mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _________________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/__mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From bdrake at crosswire.org Tue Apr 24 01:57:34 2012 From: bdrake at crosswire.org (Barry Drake) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:57:34 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Ubuntu 12.04 .... In-Reply-To: <4F95F340.4090207@pmbx.net> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F95198C.6010405@crosswire.org> <4F953FB1.7080006@crosswire.org> <4F9563C2.6050008@crosswire.org> <4F95B2B5.60907@crosswire.org> <4F95F340.4090207@pmbx.net> Message-ID: <4F966AFE.5030004@crosswire.org> On 24/04/12 01:26, Daniel Owens wrote: >> Yes. Thanks for all the help on this one. I think it's led me to a >> weird bug in BibleTime though. Please try this: In Bibletime, open >> the NET bible. Hover over a footnote. The footnote is properly >> displayed in the mag. Now close BibleTime and re-open. I my case, >> the notes are no longer displayed in the mag until NET is closed and >> re-opened. Can anyone confirm this? > I cannot confirm this in 2.9.1. It works as expected, but I am testing > only with the NETfree module. I really should buy the whole thing. It > is a great resource. I get the identical problem on a second computer I've installed BibleTime on. I'm testing the package from the Ubuntu 12.04 repo - this is 2.8.1. I wonder if the problem might be because this build is presumably using libsword9? It sounds as though the problem is specific to whatever is packaged for Ubuntu 12.04. As I'm testing for Ubuntu, I am not really interested in something that will fix the problem for me personally as I believe others are going to see this problem when they install from the Ubuntu ppa. God bless, Barry. -- Barry Drake is a member of the the Ubuntu Advertising team. http://ubuntuadverts.org/ From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 20:47:36 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:47:36 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (https) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Attached is the patch for this. Also, don't forget to fix up the removeModule call before installing bug we discussed on #sword today! --Greg On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: >> >> Nice! Thanks Greg. >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> Greg Hellings wrote: >>> >>> HTTPS transport and support for the _ character in the current HTTP >>> transport. I believe I've identified the additional change that is >>> needed to permit this. If it works I'll send along an updated patch >>> for it this week. >>> >>> --Greg >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Troy A. Griffitts >>> wrote: >>> > I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and >>> > hope to >>> > push out a new release of SWORD. >>> > >>> > Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start >>> > planning. >>> > >>> > o ? ? ? I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current >>> > filter >>> > sets. ?Any update or news on that? >>> > >>> > o ? ? ? This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, >>> > though they are mostly just a stub right now. ?I think I converted >>> > Words >>> of >>> > Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were >>> > meant >>> > for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. >>> > ?Any >>> > frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll >>> > commit >>> > to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure >>> > they >>> > are happy with the results, as well? ?Collaboration is important on >>> > this >>> > one. >>> > >>> > o ? ? ? We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. >>> > ?The >>> > original author of these hasn't been around for a while. ?I can look >>> > into >>> > this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. >>> > ?This >>> > would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your >>> > feet >>> > wet deep in internals of the engine code. >>> > >>> > o ? ? ? We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to >>> > Malachi or >>> > something like this in a certain >>> Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten >>> > the details on this one. ?I think we talked about it in #sword. ?I >>> > couldn't >>> > find a message thread) >>> > >>> > I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is >>> > entered >>> > there: http://crosswire.org/bugs >>> > >>> > But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked >>> > about. >>> > >>> > >>> > Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! >>> > >>> > Troy >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >>> >> >>> >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed >>> >> together >>> >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >>> >> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >>> >> were aware of the current >>> situation and whether this will alter any time >>> >> soon? >>> >> >>> >> God bless, Barry. >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> > bt-devel mailing list >>> > bt-devel at crosswire.org >>> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> bt-devel mailing list >>> bt-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: https_trasport.patch Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2746 bytes Desc: not available URL: From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 20:56:55 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2012 22:56:55 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (https) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > Attached is the patch for this. > Also, don't forget to fix up the removeModule call before installing > bug we discussed on #sword today! I should note that this patch disables SSL certificate checking, which is inherently an unsafe configuration. I should have made that behavior optional, but doing so would have to change API calls whereas the the way I have written it the user needs only create an HTTPSSource entry in their InstallMgr.conf file. This implementation requires no changes from applications, but if we're graduating to 1.7 it might be beneficial to change the API. Also, I noted in the patch a place where some code could possibly be refactored to avoid duplication, but I didn't take the time to do the refactoring. > > --Greg > > On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: >>> >>> Nice! Thanks Greg. >>> -- >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >>> Greg Hellings wrote: >>>> >>>> HTTPS transport and support for the _ character in the current HTTP >>>> transport. I believe I've identified the additional change that is >>>> needed to permit this. If it works I'll send along an updated patch >>>> for it this week. >>>> >>>> --Greg >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Troy A. Griffitts >>>> wrote: >>>> > I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and >>>> > hope to >>>> > push out a new release of SWORD. >>>> > >>>> > Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start >>>> > planning. >>>> > >>>> > o ? ? ? I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current >>>> > filter >>>> > sets. ?Any update or news on that? >>>> > >>>> > o ? ? ? This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, >>>> > though they are mostly just a stub right now. ?I think I converted >>>> > Words >>>> of >>>> > Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were >>>> > meant >>>> > for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. >>>> > ?Any >>>> > frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll >>>> > commit >>>> > to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure >>>> > they >>>> > are happy with the results, as well? ?Collaboration is important on >>>> > this >>>> > one. >>>> > >>>> > o ? ? ? We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. >>>> > ?The >>>> > original author of these hasn't been around for a while. ?I can look >>>> > into >>>> > this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. >>>> > ?This >>>> > would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your >>>> > feet >>>> > wet deep in internals of the engine code. >>>> > >>>> > o ? ? ? We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to >>>> > Malachi or >>>> > something like this in a certain >>>> Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten >>>> > the details on this one. ?I think we talked about it in #sword. ?I >>>> > couldn't >>>> > find a message thread) >>>> > >>>> > I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is >>>> > entered >>>> > there: http://crosswire.org/bugs >>>> > >>>> > But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked >>>> > about. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! >>>> > >>>> > Troy >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed >>>> >> together >>>> >> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >>>> >> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >>>> >> were aware of the current >>>> situation and whether this will alter any time >>>> >> soon? >>>> >> >>>> >> God bless, Barry. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> > bt-devel mailing list >>>> > bt-devel at crosswire.org >>>> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> bt-devel mailing list >>>> bt-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Apr 25 06:49:15 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 15:49:15 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese Strongs markup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F9800DB.50908@crosswire.org> David, I'm sorry no (including me) has responded to you on this yet. We used to use '|' to separate lists in osis in the first rev or so (or at least we (CrossWire) used them, until it was pointed out that lists in XML (at least in TEI) were delineated with spaces, so the lemma and morph attributes on elements are space separated lists. fine, but this doesn't solve your problem. With '|', I would have encoded your example like this: > eg: Gen.3.8: morph="StrongsMorph:H8799">[hear] [hear] I suppose you could still do that with 2 spaces instead of of the '|', but this isn't that it's not simply extraneous spaces in your attribute value. Anyway, the morph list should mirror the lemma list. How you do that? Well, maybe: [hear] (your email to jsword reminding me of this old question from you and sparked a possible solution) Maybe someone else has a better suggestion, Troy On 04/12/2012 10:16 AM, David Instone-Brewer wrote: > I'm starting work on correcting some errors in the Chinese Strongs markup, > but I want to step carefully cos I'm new to this. > I couldn't find a Wiki page outlining what the rules are for Strongs > markup. > There's a note at > http://crosswire.org/wiki/Modules_in_the_beta_repository/ChiUns > pointing out one problem, but there are many, though it is basically a > very good markup. > It appears to be based on the free KJV markup, though it also notes > every occurrence of the Hebrew article /eth > /This isn't very useful, but it shows that they were keen to include > everything and that they did a lot of work on it. > > In order to make sure they include every Hebrew word, they often > combined words in one entry, > eg: Gen.1.2: [on the surface of] > > Sometimes this becomes complicated when one or more of the words is a verb, > eg: Gen.2.2: [rested him from all the] > - the numbers represent the words for "from" "all" "/eth/" and "working" > - in this case the morphology goes with the last lemma (H6213) but this > isn't always the case. > eg: Gen.3.8: morph="StrongsMorph:H8799">[hear] > - the numbers represent: "hear" "/eth" /"LORD" and "Qal Imperfect" > -in this case the morphology relates to the first of the three lemmas > listed. > > I can sort this out, but I'd like to know how to record it > - ie how can I indicate in correct coding that a morphology links with a > particular lemma when more than one lemma is translated by a single word? > > I notice that the same thing happens in the KJV strongs (though less often), > eg Gen.6.3 morph="strongMorph:TH8800 strongMorph:TH8677">for that he also > > Is it OK to mark such occurrences as follows? > Gen.6.3 lemma="strong:H01571" morph="strongMorph:TH8677">for that he also > This isn't good XML, but perhaps it is allowable? > Or is there some other way to indicate which lemma the morphology > belongs to? > > David IB > /// Dr David Instone-Brewer > dib Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament > ^ Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK > \=/ Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk www.TyndaleHouse.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Apr 25 07:21:16 2012 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 16:21:16 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (https) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F98085C.4050002@crosswire.org> Applied. Thank you! On 04/25/2012 05:47 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > Attached is the patch for this. > Also, don't forget to fix up the removeModule call before installing > bug we discussed on #sword today! > > --Greg > > On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: >>> >>> Nice! Thanks Greg. >>> -- >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> >>> Greg Hellings wrote: >>>> >>>> HTTPS transport and support for the _ character in the current HTTP >>>> transport. I believe I've identified the additional change that is >>>> needed to permit this. If it works I'll send along an updated patch >>>> for it this week. >>>> >>>> --Greg >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 2:59 PM, Troy A. Griffitts >>>> wrote: >>>>> I have 2 weeks off back home in Phoenix at the beginning of May and >>>>> hope to >>>>> push out a new release of SWORD. >>>>> >>>>> Can people speak up regarding any outstanding issues so I can start >>>>> planning. >>>>> >>>>> o I know we are at an odd place with trunk osis2mod and current >>>>> filter >>>>> sets. Any update or news on that? >>>>> >>>>> o This is the first thread which supports the new XHTML filters, >>>>> though they are mostly just a stub right now. I think I converted >>>>> Words >>>> of >>>>> Christ over to use a span and maybe a couple other tags, but they were >>>>> meant >>>>> for the frontends who would like to use them to begin XHTML-izing them. >>>>> Any >>>>> frontend develops up for morphing these things into something you'll >>>>> commit >>>>> to use and collaborate with the other frontend developers to be sure >>>>> they >>>>> are happy with the results, as well? Collaboration is important on >>>>> this >>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>> o We had a bug regarding size limits somewhere in the z drivers. >>>>> The >>>>> original author of these hasn't been around for a while. I can look >>>>> into >>>>> this, but I don't have much of an advantage over others on this one. >>>>> This >>>>> would be a good bug to track down if you'd like to start getting your >>>>> feet >>>>> wet deep in internals of the engine code. >>>>> >>>>> o We still have an outstanding bug report with TOP going to >>>>> Malachi or >>>>> something like this in a certain >>>> Bible module (I'm old and have forgotten >>>>> the details on this one. I think we talked about it in #sword. I >>>>> couldn't >>>>> find a message thread) >>>>> >>>>> I'll scan the bug tracker, so be sure every issue you know about is >>>>> entered >>>>> there: http://crosswire.org/bugs >>>>> >>>>> But also be loud if you don't see your favorite bug fixed or talked >>>>> about. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any constructive help you can lend for this release! >>>>> >>>>> Troy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 04/21/2012 09:29 PM, Barry Drake wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I just discovered that Bibletime and Xiphos can't be installed >>>>>> together >>>>>> from the Ubuntu packages for 12.04 because of dependency conflicts. I >>>>>> used to like having both frontends available. I just wondered if folk >>>>>> were aware of the current >>>> situation and whether this will alter any time >>>>>> soon? >>>>>> >>>>>> God bless, Barry. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>>> bt-devel mailing list >>>>> bt-devel at crosswire.org >>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> bt-devel mailing list >>>> bt-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/bt-devel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From dhowens at pmbx.net Wed Apr 25 07:34:51 2012 From: dhowens at pmbx.net (Daniel Owens) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 09:34:51 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese Strongs markup In-Reply-To: <4F9800DB.50908@crosswire.org> References: <4F9800DB.50908@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4F980B8B.1010200@pmbx.net> David, This issue crops up in the WHM module because prefixed and suffixed morphemes are parsed separately. Here is an example: ????????. The waw conjunction is parsed separately from the verb. I do not think that @src is essential, but it might be useful information some day. Daniel On 04/25/2012 08:49 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > David, > > I'm sorry no (including me) has responded to you on this yet. > > We used to use '|' to separate lists in osis in the first rev or so > (or at least we (CrossWire) used them, until it was pointed out that > lists in XML (at least in TEI) were delineated with spaces, so the > lemma and morph attributes on elements are space separated lists. > fine, but this doesn't solve your problem. With '|', I would have > encoded your example like this: > > > eg: Gen.3.8: > morph="StrongsMorph:H8799">[hear] > > morph="StrongsMorph:H8799||">[hear] > > I suppose you could still do that with 2 spaces instead of of the '|', > but this isn't that it's not simply extraneous spaces in your > attribute value. > > Anyway, the morph list should mirror the lemma list. How you do that? > Well, maybe: > > morph="StrongsMorph:H8799 StrongsMorph:H00 StrongsMorph:H00">[hear] > > (your email to jsword reminding me of this old question from you and > sparked a possible solution) > > Maybe someone else has a better suggestion, > > Troy > > > On 04/12/2012 10:16 AM, David Instone-Brewer wrote: >> I'm starting work on correcting some errors in the Chinese Strongs >> markup, >> but I want to step carefully cos I'm new to this. >> I couldn't find a Wiki page outlining what the rules are for Strongs >> markup. >> There's a note at >> http://crosswire.org/wiki/Modules_in_the_beta_repository/ChiUns >> pointing out one problem, but there are many, though it is basically a >> very good markup. >> It appears to be based on the free KJV markup, though it also notes >> every occurrence of the Hebrew article /eth >> /This isn't very useful, but it shows that they were keen to include >> everything and that they did a lot of work on it. >> >> In order to make sure they include every Hebrew word, they often >> combined words in one entry, >> eg: Gen.1.2: [on the surface >> of] >> >> Sometimes this becomes complicated when one or more of the words is a >> verb, >> eg: Gen.2.2: [rested him from all the] >> - the numbers represent the words for "from" "all" "/eth/" and "working" >> - in this case the morphology goes with the last lemma (H6213) but this >> isn't always the case. >> eg: Gen.3.8: > morph="StrongsMorph:H8799">[hear] >> - the numbers represent: "hear" "/eth" /"LORD" and "Qal Imperfect" >> -in this case the morphology relates to the first of the three lemmas >> listed. >> >> I can sort this out, but I'd like to know how to record it >> - ie how can I indicate in correct coding that a morphology links with a >> particular lemma when more than one lemma is translated by a single >> word? >> >> I notice that the same thing happens in the KJV strongs (though less >> often), >> eg Gen.6.3 > morph="strongMorph:TH8800 strongMorph:TH8677">for that he also >> >> Is it OK to mark such occurrences as follows? >> Gen.6.3 > lemma="strong:H01571" morph="strongMorph:TH8677">for that he also >> This isn't good XML, but perhaps it is allowable? >> Or is there some other way to indicate which lemma the morphology >> belongs to? >> >> David IB >> /// Dr David Instone-Brewer >> dib Senior Research Fellow in Rabbinics and the New Testament >> ^ Tyndale House, 36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK >> \=/ Rabbinics at Tyndale.cam.ac.uk www.TyndaleHouse.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From dfhmch at googlemail.com Thu Apr 26 06:16:42 2012 From: dfhmch at googlemail.com (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 06:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Av11n and coverage In-Reply-To: <4F3BFDD8.4070405@mpj.cx> References: <4F059BE3.3080900@gmx.net> <4F3532C4.3030204@crosswire.org> <1328888134314-4376618.post@n4.nabble.com> <4F358068.4090401@crosswire.org>

<8F817DF1-084D-4639-8FC5-E19A3EC6CE72@mac.com> <4F3BFDD8.4070405@mpj.cx> Message-ID: <1335446202402-4589779.post@n4.nabble.com> Without re-reading all the messages that took place in this thread, something else today prompted me to look up the following in the OSIS reference manual. *7.5.1. Scope* The *div* element has a *scope* attribute that should be used when it contains less than a complete work. For example, some Bibles only contain Proverbs and Psalms, in which case a *div* element should say, using the *scope* element, that it only contains Proverbs and Psalms. That is done using the *scope* attribute. The value of this attribute is written using the rules for osisRefs. Peter's topic originally envisaged *coverage* (or scope) being something within the .conf file. As far as I know, the SWORD engine makes no use of the *scope* attribute. Nonetheless, I see no harm or disadvantage if we were to start to use this within OSIS XML files in the manner in which it was originally intended. i.e. Actually retain the scope value inside the module when created by osis2mod. The question arises as to whether there are foreseen any positive benefits from using it. One possibility is that (given sensible improvements for the source code) we could obviate the listing of a lot of empty lines output by our *emptvss* utility. According to the OSIS manual, *scope* is also a valid attribute of the *section* element. An example of its use is given in section *11.5.2.1* on page 65. Again, this is something which we don't actually make use of in SWORD, though it most certainly validates against the standard OSIS schema. This late addition to the earlier thread may also serve as a reminder of all that we thought of at the time, especially as Troy is soon to take on the task of working towards a release of SWORD v1.7 Best regards, David Haslam -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Av11n-and-coverage-tp4265350p4589779.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 09:56:43 2012 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:56:43 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] SWORD 1.7 (proxy, zip cache) In-Reply-To: <3aef54a2-86cc-4d4c-8895-1a82a5307f1c@email.android.com> References: <4F930AB4.7020509@crosswire.org> <4F9311B4.1000300@crosswire.org> <1A46981D-1E66-4400-91B2-5D7B4A057A99@mac.com> <4F940D6E.3090703@tetzels.de> <3aef54a2-86cc-4d4c-8895-1a82a5307f1c@email.android.com> Message-ID: