From mjdenham at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 09:00:02 2010 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:00:02 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Hi, Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or if it is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I thought about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions if you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just can't understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails that the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also needs some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. So if you use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I always planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good start. There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword but realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would be difficult to make the back-end switchable. Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do others think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar with it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS and Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, as everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should keep my head down and not be distracted. I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a while. Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* 4xA and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. Best regards Martin On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: > Hello, > > On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It > would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make > changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki > would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. > > For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig > bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter > had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have > forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not > they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily > available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. > > Just my $0.02. > > Thanks, > -Bill > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: > >> Hi Martin and Troy, >> >> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword source >> and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and eventually >> crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning that floods the >> Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor modifications to >> ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >> >> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace the >> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but I >> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could be a >> useful example if we decide to go that way. >> >> Should we continue discussion on this list? >> >> -Ken (mobile) >> >> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >> wrote: >> >> Dear Ken, >> >> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer and >> haven't had time to look into it. >> >> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for the >> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an email >> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >> >> ______________________ >> >> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >> together: >> >> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >> >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >> >> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >> it's a little bigger): >> >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >> Current backup of source which built the above: >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >> >> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >> through it all. >> >> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer version >> of Android or new phone works better? >> >> Let me know what you find. >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >> > I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> > > > -- > Bill Burton > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sonwon.1 at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 09:14:13 2010 From: sonwon.1 at gmail.com (SonWon) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:14:13 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: You can't live without us :) Congratulations on the scores! On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham wrote: > > > > I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a > while. Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! > > btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* 4xA > and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. > > Best regards > Martin > > On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It >> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make >> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki >> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >> >> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig >> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter >> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have >> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not >> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily >> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >> >> Just my $0.02. >> >> Thanks, >> -Bill >> >> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >> >>> Hi Martin and Troy, >>> >>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword >>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and >>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning that >>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor >>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >>> >>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace the >>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but I >>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could be a >>> useful example if we decide to go that way. >>> >>> Should we continue discussion on this list? >>> >>> -Ken (mobile) >>> >>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Ken, >>> >>> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer and >>> haven't had time to look into it. >>> >>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for the >>> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >>> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an email >>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >>> >>> ______________________ >>> >>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >>> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >>> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >>> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >>> together: >>> >>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >>> >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >>> >>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >>> it's a little bigger): >>> >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >>> Current backup of source which built the above: >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >>> >>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >>> through it all. >>> >>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >>> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >>> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >>> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >>> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >>> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer version >>> of Android or new phone works better? >>> >>> Let me know what you find. >>> >>> Troy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >>> > I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bill Burton >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ransom1982 at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 09:45:15 2010 From: ransom1982 at gmail.com (Matthew Talbert) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:45:15 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Bill Burton wrote: > > Hello, > > On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com?? It would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make changes and then push them back for optional inclusion.? The built-in wiki would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. > > For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter had the time or inclination to step up and look at them.? If I could have forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. > Please consider branching http://launchpad.net/sword and publishing your ruby swig bindings. Much of the recent bindings work has been done on launchpad. I can't promise results, but the person who has been doing the recent work will definitely be able to see your work there. Matthew From manfred.bergmann at me.com Wed Sep 1 09:48:38 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:48:38 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Am 01.09.2010 um 17:00 schrieb Martin Denham: > Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or if it is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I thought about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions if you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just can't understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails that the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also needs some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. Can the html rendering in JSword be simplified? > Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do others think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar with it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS and Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, as everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should keep my head down and not be distracted. I'm using a mixture of Bazaar and Subversion. I think that DVCSs do not make sense everywhere. Both, a DVCS and a VCS need maintenance. With a DVCS you might get a lot of branches where if no one cares you suddenly have a lot of mess. This is exactly the opposite with a VCS that is very strict with giving people write access where you need people to review and apply patches. If those people don't exist the sources will not change. However I still think that it absolute makes sense to have a shared repository with some people that are responsible for maintenance and patch review/apply. If this works well I believe it will not hinder anyone from commitment. Manfred > > On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: > Hello, > > On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. > > For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. > > Just my $0.02. > > Thanks, > -Bill > > On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: > Hi Martin and Troy, > > I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning that floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. > > Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace the backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but I don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could be a useful example if we decide to go that way. > > Should we continue discussion on this list? > > -Ken (mobile) > > >> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: >> >> Dear Ken, >> >> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer and >> haven't had time to look into it. >> >> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for the >> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an email >> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >> >> ______________________ >> >> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >> together: >> >> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >> >> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >> >> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >> it's a little bigger): >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >> >> Current backup of source which built the above: >> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >> >> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >> through it all. >> >> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer version >> of Android or new phone works better? >> >> Let me know what you find. >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >> > I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > -- > Bill Burton > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From ransom1982 at gmail.com Wed Sep 1 09:56:51 2010 From: ransom1982 at gmail.com (Matthew Talbert) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 12:56:51 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] input methods In-Reply-To: <4C7DCB02.4000800@crosswire.org> References: <4C7DCB02.4000800@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Chris Little wrote: > This is just a guess, but I suspect it is not being used anywhere by anyone. > SWInputMethod was basically for customized input methods of a very basic > sort. For example, input ' to the IM and get ? out. (HebrewMCIM, if it isn't > clear, takes Michigan-Claremont Hebrew encoding and outputs Unicode.) The > use for this would be on systems without an OS-wide non-Latin IM switching > method, or in the case where we just don't want to use or implement IMs > using the OS-supplied methods. > > SWInputMethod could probably be implemented using ICU transliterators, which > would likely be a bit slower and would add a requirement of using ICU. But > doing so would mean not having to write a bunch of classes like HebrewMCIM > for each IM we want to support. > > Troy can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the original purpose of > SWInputMethod and HewbrewMCIM was for a collaborative editor for Project > "eL" (cf. http://www.xml.com/pub/r/915). > > > > If we really don't intend to use any of this any time soon, it would > probably be a good idea to pull it out of the library, since it's just > taking up space. Or maybe you had an idea for a use for it? > No, I don't really have a use for it, and I'm all for taking things out that are clearly unmaintained and unused. I just stumbled across it, and was curious about it. I was thinking random thoughts the other day about allowing users to input Greek using b-greek or things like that, but I don't know if this would be at all helpful for that. It's probably better to just provide an on-screen keyboard for greek/hebrew entry. Matthew From dmsmith at crosswire.org Wed Sep 1 10:23:18 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:23:18 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> On 09/01/2010 12:48 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > Can the html rendering in JSword be simplified? I'm not sure what you mean by simplified? Do you mean the process or the output? The process is basically this: Get the verses from the module. Convert them to OSIS. (For modules already in OSIS this is almost a pass-through) Use xslt to convert the OSIS into xhtml. The output is the final step. Another stylesheet can be used to simplify the output. Alternatively, one can create another mechanism to convert the raw text into html. It is easy enough to get the raw text. In Him, DM From manfred.bergmann at me.com Wed Sep 1 10:38:46 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 18:38:46 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <39635A3E-9230-432C-A97E-87C67685ACA4@me.com> Am 01.09.2010 um 18:23 schrieb DM Smith: > On 09/01/2010 12:48 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: >> Can the html rendering in JSword be simplified? > I'm not sure what you mean by simplified? Do you mean the process or the output? I guess I meant both. > The process is basically this: > Get the verses from the module. > Convert them to OSIS. (For modules already in OSIS this is almost a pass-through) > Use xslt to convert the OSIS into xhtml. > > The output is the final step. Another stylesheet can be used to simplify the output. > > Alternatively, one can create another mechanism to convert the raw text into html. It is easy enough to get the raw text. Thanks for the explanation. Manfred From admin at bible.salterrae.net Wed Sep 1 17:56:45 2010 From: admin at bible.salterrae.net (admin at bible.salterrae.net) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 09:56:45 +0900 (JST) Subject: [sword-devel] Repository for Japanese Bibles Message-ID: <60056.KlVOVhkCS1g=.1283389005.squirrel@bible.salterrae.net> Hi all! We have set up a repository for japanese bibles as below: Site Name: bible.salterrae.net Site Machine Name: bible.salterrae.net Repository Directory: /pub/sword/raw Catalog Directory: /pub/sword/raw ZIP Directory: /pub/sword/packages/rawzip Registered modules are bungo, kougo, raguet and denmo. Though Croswire Beta Repository contains JapBungo, JapKougo, JapMeiji, JapRaguet and JapDenmo, these modules are rather old and contains more errors than ours. Relations between ours and croswire beta's are: kougo: almost same as JapKougo, paragraph tags ( such as

, , are added. ) bungo: combination of JapBungo(NT) and JapMeiji(OT). Contains all the missing books in the JapMeiji. raguet: almost same as JapRaguet. denmo: almost same as JapDenmo. Ruby annotations are removed from all modules. -- Administrator of bible.salterrae.net From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Sep 1 20:55:34 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:55:34 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> Is there someone maintaining bindings on github who doesn't have access to our SVN repository? I'm happy to add more writers. Please let me know. Troy On 09/01/2010 09:45 AM, Matthew Talbert wrote: > On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Bill Burton wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >> >> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >> > > Please consider branching http://launchpad.net/sword and publishing > your ruby swig bindings. Much of the recent bindings work has been > done on launchpad. I can't promise results, but the person who has > been doing the recent work will definitely be able to see your work > there. > > Matthew > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From manfred.bergmann at me.com Thu Sep 2 02:31:23 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:31:23 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. Manfred Am 02.09.2010 um 04:55 schrieb Troy A. Griffitts: > Is there someone maintaining bindings on github who doesn't have access > to our SVN repository? > > I'm happy to add more writers. Please let me know. > > > Troy > > > > > On 09/01/2010 09:45 AM, Matthew Talbert wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Bill Burton wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >>> >>> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >>> >> >> Please consider branching http://launchpad.net/sword and publishing >> your ruby swig bindings. Much of the recent bindings work has been >> done on launchpad. I can't promise results, but the person who has >> been doing the recent work will definitely be able to see your work >> there. >> >> Matthew >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From ransom1982 at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 09:28:57 2010 From: ransom1982 at gmail.com (Matthew Talbert) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 12:28:57 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? > We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. > For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. > In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. > And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. > As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems being used, I'm unaware of it. Matthew From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:18:38 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:18:38 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: > On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann > wrote: >> >> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >> > > As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is > quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code > and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed > to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems > being used, I'm unaware of it. > > Matthew > Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if you have access. From manfred.bergmann at me.com Thu Sep 2 10:47:34 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:47:34 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >> wrote: >>> >>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>> >> >> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >> being used, I'm unaware of it. >> >> Matthew >> > > Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn > repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword > projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully > compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if > you have access. That is totally fine. The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? Manfred From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:56 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:52:56 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 18:47, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? > > > Manfred > Does it make sence to create crosswire meta projects for all of the sword related projects? From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:26 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:52:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 18:47, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? > > > Manfred I and Jonathan Marsden try to keep up with them from ~pkg-crosswire-devel Debian/Ubuntu packaging team. The mirrored bzr branches are read-only. If you have commit access to svn you can $ bzr push svn://svn.example.com/trunk. And then it will ask for login/password. Anyone can create, commit and push bzr branches to launchad =) From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:26 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:52:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 18:47, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? > > > Manfred I and Jonathan Marsden try to keep up with them from ~pkg-crosswire-devel Debian/Ubuntu packaging team. The mirrored bzr branches are read-only. If you have commit access to svn you can $ bzr push svn://svn.example.com/trunk. And then it will ask for login/password. Anyone can create, commit and push bzr branches to launchad =) From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:26 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:52:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 18:47, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? > > > Manfred I and Jonathan Marsden try to keep up with them from ~pkg-crosswire-devel Debian/Ubuntu packaging team. The mirrored bzr branches are read-only. If you have commit access to svn you can $ bzr push svn://svn.example.com/trunk. And then it will ask for login/password. Anyone can create, commit and push bzr branches to launchad =) From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:26 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:52:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 18:47, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? > > > Manfred I and Jonathan Marsden try to keep up with them from ~pkg-crosswire-devel Debian/Ubuntu packaging team. The mirrored bzr branches are read-only. If you have commit access to svn you can $ bzr push svn://svn.example.com/trunk. And then it will ask for login/password. Anyone can create, commit and push bzr branches to launchad =) From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 2 10:52:26 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:52:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On 2 September 2010 18:47, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? > > > Manfred I and Jonathan Marsden try to keep up with them from ~pkg-crosswire-devel Debian/Ubuntu packaging team. The mirrored bzr branches are read-only. If you have commit access to svn you can $ bzr push svn://svn.example.com/trunk. And then it will ask for login/password. Anyone can create, commit and push bzr branches to launchad =) From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Sep 2 11:36:22 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 13:36:22 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7F2036.5020807@crosswire.org> <773666F7-C881-487A-8E7C-A7A99DEE191E@me.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 02.09.2010 um 18:18 schrieb Dmitrijs Ledkovs: > >> On 2 September 2010 17:28, Matthew Talbert wrote: >>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Manfred Bergmann >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I don't know but isn't it contra productive and actually a lot more work to maintain the sources on a variety on source control platforms? >>>> We end up having SWORD source trees on Github, Bitbucket and Launchpad and eventually on any other system that will come up. >>>> For all of those we need people to maintain the sources otherwise we will have a mess of different sources version and implementations. >>>> In my opinion, the main and official sources of SWORD have to be maintained by responsible people from Crosswire. >>>> And it has to be clear that Crosswire will have and is in control of the official sources. I don't actually care which source control system is used for that, though I think that Subversion is the greatest common divisor because all other DVCSs can bi-directional access Subversion. >>>> >>> >>> As far as I know, only Launchpad is being used (other than svn). It is >>> quite helpful, because it allows people to publish branches of code >>> and work on them together to finish a feature before it is committed >>> to sword svn. If there is a proliferation of source control systems >>> being used, I'm unaware of it. >>> >>> Matthew >>> >> >> Plus on Launchpad it is clearly stated where the upstream svn >> repository is. The bzr imports are run every 6 hours for many sword >> projects (jsword, sword, xiphos, bibletime). And bzr is fully >> compatible with svn, i.e. you can seamlessly commit to svn from bzr if >> you have access. > > That is totally fine. > The use case you are outlining is comprehensible. Btw: MacSword is mirrored on Launchpad as well. > Who is maintaining the Launchpad repos? I mean, one of the branches probably is used to push back to SWORD svn? Whoever initially configured to be the project maintainer on LP is "managing" the repository. In my case, I keep a branch of lp:sword, which mirrors Crosswire, and I usually branch off it when I'm pushing to LP. I also keep a "bzr co http://svn.crosswire.org/svn/sword/trunk" which is basically identical to "svn co". My directory looks like this: sword/ - trunk/ - cmake/ - flags-greg/ - flags-dmi/ - svn/ Trunk follows Launchpad's mirror of Crosswire. CMake is the branch I initially created as I was building the CMake system. flags-greg/ is my own version of some patches related to CFLAGS handling in CMake and flags-dmi/ is Dmitrijs's work. We've been collaborating to fix some inconsistencies. svn/ is my thin "bzr co" of the official Crosswire subversion. It isn't a full-fledged Bazaar branch, and uses the same commands as a subversion checkout would: "update" pulls down from the server, "commit" makes a Subversion commit back to Crosswire. When I'm done with my feature branch, I make sure to merge any changes that I get out of svn/ into the branch, do a final check to make sure nothing is broken, then I'll merge flags-greg/ or flags-dmi/ (depending on which one works better) into svn/ and commit, and the commit is made directly to Subversion. Later, Launchpad will automatically update its trunk/ to mirror Crosswire, and I'll be able to do "bzr pull" in my local trunk/ to see those updates. In a purely Bazaar system, I would instead merge flags-greg/ into trunk/ and then do "bzr push" to the Launchpad servers. But for a repository that follows a Subversion repository, you can't push into the following branch (because how would LP justify keeping developer A's credentials and letting someone else push to that and then LP would have to submit the push to SVN - but what if there were conflicts or an update needed to be run first or...). All the work done between Bazaar and SVN is handled manually by a Bazaar user, the LP system just allows me and a collaborator(s) to easily talk back and forth and then merge the result together before committing to subversion. There is really nothing to worry about from the proliferation. So long as the website keeps saying that SVN is the official source of the central repository, things are fine. People can come and find my branches or someone else's branches on Launchpad or Bitbucket if they want, but they won't be following the trunk of development, in that case. Of course, someone getting down and dirty with a VCS of any sort on the code should expect hurdles and probably will need to end up coming crying to the developers when something inevitably breaks. tl;dr - One shouldn't fret about people using the DVCSs and their convenience, so long as those people with commit access to the code are trustworthy and responsive and know how to interface between the two. --Greg --Greg > > > Manfred > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From niccarter at mac.com Thu Sep 2 17:24:18 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:24:18 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 Message-ID: <94F8884C-87B9-4CF5-B160-DA770821A782@mac.com> Hi all, Just a quick note to say that PocketSword v1.3.2 has been released and will be propagating across the various App Stores in different countries right now. :) It's not quite there in the Oz one yet, but it does say it's been updated - you just can't access the update yet! ;) Hope the wait was worth it, for those of you who use it. I've pasted the changelog below... :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) CHANGELOG: New in v1.3.2 - Added ability to download "locked" texts & unlock them (eg: NET Bible) - updated the built-in Greek Strong's lexicon - improved start-up time of app - improved speed of moving between Bible chapters. - Can now tap on a verse number to add a bookmark or to view the corresponding Commentary entry for that verse. - Can now jump straight to the start of a Book or Chapter from the ref selector - fixed headings in the LEB module (from Logos) - fixed display of Strong's numbers inline - re-enabled use of PocketSword with iOS 3.0 - Added Czech localisation - started upgrade of images for iPhone 4 retina display - bug fixes New in v1.3.2 - bug fixes New in v1.3.0 - added Daily Devotional support - Updated Download section to add more download sources - added Russian & Traditional Chinese localisations - Can now define your own download source, for users who create their own modules ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword From johanma at absa.co.za Thu Sep 2 21:40:14 2010 From: johanma at absa.co.za (Johan Marais (johanma@absa.co.za)) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 06:40:14 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 In-Reply-To: <94F8884C-87B9-4CF5-B160-DA770821A782@mac.com> References: <94F8884C-87B9-4CF5-B160-DA770821A782@mac.com> Message-ID: <304C6626E4201F4F86FA5A2A6AF4B1213D64EC6FB7@V058MBX001002.ds1.ad.absa.co.za> Good news, thank you Nic. When do you plan to add the functionality to add notes to verses please? In His Name, Johan Marais -----Original Message----- From: Nic Carter [mailto:niccarter at mac.com] Sent: 03 September 2010 02:24 AM To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 Hi all, Just a quick note to say that PocketSword v1.3.2 has been released and will be propagating across the various App Stores in different countries right now. :) It's not quite there in the Oz one yet, but it does say it's been updated - you just can't access the update yet! ;) Hope the wait was worth it, for those of you who use it. I've pasted the changelog below... :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) CHANGELOG: New in v1.3.2 - Added ability to download "locked" texts & unlock them (eg: NET Bible) - updated the built-in Greek Strong's lexicon - improved start-up time of app - improved speed of moving between Bible chapters. - Can now tap on a verse number to add a bookmark or to view the corresponding Commentary entry for that verse. - Can now jump straight to the start of a Book or Chapter from the ref selector - fixed headings in the LEB module (from Logos) - fixed display of Strong's numbers inline - re-enabled use of PocketSword with iOS 3.0 - Added Czech localisation - started upgrade of images for iPhone 4 retina display - bug fixes New in v1.3.2 - bug fixes New in v1.3.0 - added Daily Devotional support - Updated Download section to add more download sources - added Russian & Traditional Chinese localisations - Can now define your own download source, for users who create their own modules ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page Important Notice: Absa is an Authorised Financial Services Provider and Registered Credit Provider, registration number: NCRCP7. 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From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 01:29:01 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 11:29:01 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Typeset Bible directly from OSIS using LaTeX and In-Reply-To: <4BF471C1.1070000@gmx.net> References: <1274261816.30091.3.camel@antiloop> <20100519094027.205280@gmx.net> <1274263606.30091.6.camel@antiloop> <4BF471C1.1070000@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1283675341.6034.63.camel@antiloop> I played around with LaTeX and XSLT a little, and would like to share it with you. Just in case somebody is interested. The result is far from complete and would need a lot of tweaking for final results. The resulting PDF can be found at: http://drop.io/fdsx4di5562 For your ease of testing, I will simply add all steps here required for output. I suppose you have latex and all other packages installed. 1. wget http://www.crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip 2. unzip kjvxml.zip 3. Save attached files osis2latex.xsl and bible.tex to the directory 4. xsltproc osis2latex.xsl kjv.xml > kjv.tex 5. pdflatex bible.tex press enter a few times, since the file contains some errors 6. Check out the bible.pdf In HIM Mattias -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: bible.tex Type: text/x-tex Size: 3594 bytes Desc: pole teada URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: osis2latex.xsl Type: application/xslt+xml Size: 1829 bytes Desc: pole teada URL: From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 05:42:56 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 15:42:56 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Typeset Bible directly from OSIS using LaTeX and In-Reply-To: <1283675341.6034.63.camel@antiloop> References: <1274261816.30091.3.camel@antiloop> <20100519094027.205280@gmx.net> <1274263606.30091.6.camel@antiloop> <4BF471C1.1070000@gmx.net> <1283675341.6034.63.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: <1283690576.6034.131.camel@antiloop> I forgot to add that the osis2latex.xsl is somewhat inspired by OSISToUSFM.1-6.xsl (Snowfallsoftware), it gave me a good starting point and saved a little time of reading XSLT docs. Nevertheless, OSISToUSFM.xsl is way more complicated and there is still much to learn from :) LaTeX code is derived from WEB bible published on ebible.org at http://ebible.org/web/links.htm (see webtex.zip) and it uses mainly the same commands. I mostly tinkered with the layout. I think it would be worthwhile to provide good documentation and default files about how to produce nice printable output from OSIS (or SWORD module). This would make it more beneficial to keep OSIS or USFM as the core of the translation. I think not all Bible agencies are aware of the possibilities of such method. Although bibletechnologies.net mentions why OSIS should be preferred core format, it does not provide methods to fully utilize it. Mattias ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-09-05 kell 11:29, kirjutas Mattias P?ldaru: > I played around with LaTeX and XSLT a little, and would like to share it > with you. Just in case somebody is interested. The result is far from > complete and would need a lot of tweaking for final results. > > The resulting PDF can be found at: http://drop.io/fdsx4di5562 > > > For your ease of testing, I will simply add all steps here required for > output. I suppose you have latex and all other packages installed. > > 1. wget http://www.crosswire.org/~dmsmith/kjv2006/sword/kjvxml.zip > 2. unzip kjvxml.zip > 3. Save attached files osis2latex.xsl and bible.tex to the directory > 4. xsltproc osis2latex.xsl kjv.xml > kjv.tex > 5. pdflatex bible.tex > press enter a few times, since the file contains some errors > 6. Check out the bible.pdf > > > In HIM > Mattias From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 05:55:42 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 15:55:42 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Managing Bible translation Message-ID: <1283691342.6034.144.camel@antiloop> I am thinking of ways to manage Bible translation well in git/bzr/svn or whatever other VCS or DVCS. Pros of using (D)VCS: Diffing possibilities One central repository Backtrace of changes Cons: Deeper learning curve The core document would definitely have to be either OSIS or USFM. Pros/cons: USFM produces better diff USFM is simplier to use for computer illiterate USFM is supported by bibledit OSIS is technically superior OSIS is easy to derive other formats from (USFM ? OSIS is also straightforward conversion) OSIS provides wider set of markup possibilities (most notably STRONG numbers, if this is needed, USFM is not an option) To provide better diff, some prettifying scripts could be used (both for OSIS xml and USFM), to standardize whitespace and linebreaks. In 2005 it was discussed about OSIS editor, but since this is the only mark about the subject, I suppose the project never started. I would be glad to hear your thoughts on the subject. Thanks in advance Mattias From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 06:30:34 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 23:30:34 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Managing Bible translation In-Reply-To: <1283691342.6034.144.camel@antiloop> References: <1283691342.6034.144.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: Hi Mattias, I do not have strong opinions on this. However, the last place I have seen similar things discussed was the Open Scriptures group ( http://groups.google.com/group/open-scriptures). I am not sure whether it was merely discussion of ideas to work or whether anything was implemented, but youmay want to ask around there (apart from anything else, I think that list attracts more people interested in texts and translations and data generally, while this list attracts more people interested in software and particularly SWORD software). Jon On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Mattias P?ldaru wrote: > I am thinking of ways to manage Bible translation well in git/bzr/svn or > whatever other VCS or DVCS. > > Pros of using (D)VCS: > Diffing possibilities > One central repository > Backtrace of changes > Cons: > Deeper learning curve > > The core document would definitely have to be either OSIS or USFM. > Pros/cons: > USFM produces better diff > USFM is simplier to use for computer illiterate > USFM is supported by bibledit > OSIS is technically superior > OSIS is easy to derive other formats from (USFM ? OSIS is also > straightforward conversion) > OSIS provides wider set of markup possibilities (most notably STRONG > numbers, if this is needed, USFM is not an option) > > To provide better diff, some prettifying scripts could be used (both for > OSIS xml and USFM), to standardize whitespace and linebreaks. > > In 2005 it was discussed about OSIS editor, but since this is the only > mark about the subject, I suppose the project never started. > > > I would be glad to hear your thoughts on the subject. > > > Thanks in advance > > Mattias > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mahfiaz at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 11:58:04 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:58:04 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Managing Bible translation In-Reply-To: References: <1283691342.6034.144.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: <1283713084.2332.5.camel@antiloop> Hi Jon, Thank you for information, that group looks very promising. I will dig it a little. Everybody else, who do have any opinion about the topic, don't be shy, speak up :) Mattias ?hel kenal p?eval, P, 2010-09-05 kell 23:30, kirjutas Jonathan Morgan: > Hi Mattias, > > I do not have strong opinions on this. However, the last place I have > seen similar things discussed was the Open Scriptures group > (http://groups.google.com/group/open-scriptures). I am not sure > whether it was merely discussion of ideas to work or whether anything > was implemented, but youmay want to ask around there (apart from > anything else, I think that list attracts more people interested in > texts and translations and data generally, while this list attracts > more people interested in software and particularly SWORD software). > > Jon > > On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Mattias P?ldaru > wrote: > I am thinking of ways to manage Bible translation well in > git/bzr/svn or > whatever other VCS or DVCS. > > Pros of using (D)VCS: > Diffing possibilities > One central repository > Backtrace of changes > Cons: > Deeper learning curve > > The core document would definitely have to be either OSIS or > USFM. > Pros/cons: > USFM produces better diff > USFM is simplier to use for computer illiterate > USFM is supported by bibledit > OSIS is technically superior > OSIS is easy to derive other formats from (USFM ? OSIS is also > straightforward conversion) > OSIS provides wider set of markup possibilities (most notably > STRONG > numbers, if this is needed, USFM is not an option) > > To provide better diff, some prettifying scripts could be used > (both for > OSIS xml and USFM), to standardize whitespace and linebreaks. > > In 2005 it was discussed about OSIS editor, but since this is > the only > mark about the subject, I suppose the project never started. > > > I would be glad to hear your thoughts on the subject. > > > Thanks in advance > > Mattias > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From refdoc at gmx.net Sun Sep 5 14:33:44 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 22:33:44 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Front end compatibility to aV11N (all frontends please) In-Reply-To: <4C3F4C1F-7E6A-46AF-885C-E89E44336EBE@mac.com> References: <4C61845F.6090504@gmx.net> <4C625EC2.3010100@gmx.net> <4C626371.9040603@gmx.net> <6AAACDF7-349A-498E-B2D4-9A36AFB8F3A0@mac.com> <4C62AFFD.6070608@gmx.net> <4C3F4C1F-7E6A-46AF-885C-E89E44336EBE@mac.com> Message-ID: <4C840CB8.9080000@gmx.net> On 31/08/10 03:56, Nic Carter wrote: > But, I can't wait for av11n modules to become available! :) Do we have a consensus? Peter From dmsmith at crosswire.org Sun Sep 5 16:21:46 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:21:46 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Front end compatibility to aV11N (all frontends please) In-Reply-To: <4C840CB8.9080000@gmx.net> References: <4C61845F.6090504@gmx.net> <4C625EC2.3010100@gmx.net> <4C626371.9040603@gmx.net> <6AAACDF7-349A-498E-B2D4-9A36AFB8F3A0@mac.com> <4C62AFFD.6070608@gmx.net> <4C3F4C1F-7E6A-46AF-885C-E89E44336EBE@mac.com> <4C840CB8.9080000@gmx.net> Message-ID: Don't wait on JSword. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 5, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > On 31/08/10 03:56, Nic Carter wrote: > >> But, I can't wait for av11n modules to become available! :) > > Do we have a consensus? > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From teusjannette at gmail.com Sun Sep 5 23:09:37 2010 From: teusjannette at gmail.com (Teus Benschop) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:09:37 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Managing Bible translation In-Reply-To: <1283713084.2332.5.camel@antiloop> References: <1283691342.6034.144.camel@antiloop> <1283713084.2332.5.camel@antiloop> Message-ID: <1283753377.1196.1.camel@2530p> > > I am thinking of ways to manage Bible translation well in > > git/bzr/svn or > > whatever other VCS or DVCS. There is www.bibledit.org that uses git for storing the Bible being translated. Perhaps it could be of help. Teus From jmichae3 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 01:19:29 2010 From: jmichae3 at yahoo.com (Jim Michaels) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 01:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] updated sword project ISO Message-ID: <22745.83939.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> the Sword Project ISO needs updating. a new app that will be added to the collection as a user choice is Xiphos. I was told there is a need for someone to facilitate/manage this project (after a discussion about a Xiphos ISO).I am new to all this, I have only been a user of Xiphos and the Sword Project. I am also willing to contribute to the windows part of the effort any way I can. - I can write NSIS installers, that's easy. - I can also write simple windows apps in Auto-It3 ( makes dialogs to launch other programs) with a few lines of code - it's sort of like BASIC, but it can control things. - I can write command-line C++ apps, if that's of any use. I usually combine that with the above. - I can build ISOs, I have mkisofs for windows (I get it from http://sf.net/projects/cdrtfe, a cd burning program that uses a cdrtools port from UNIX). I am not quite sure how well mac resources will work on my PC... maybe the mac stuff should be a universal dmg? there are a number of mac platforms to target.... and I am not entirely familiar with the mac platform, but I do make mac apps available on my own ISOs, so I am not totally blind either. If there is nobody to write the replacement windows front-end app, I could do it easily, but it won't look as good as the old one. the new one is going to have to call a different installer rather than directly run My understanding is that there are pre-built software components that simply need to be assembled in the right way, with the possible exception of the front end app (I could be wrong)? A cd can store 738MB (not MiB), so there should be room for more of the sword project, but xiphos is 25MB and the sword project is 714MB which is 1MB over the top, so xiphos is not going to fit in a cd per se, but it would fit in a DVD ISO. there are still working cd drives out there, I have a client who has 2 and my mom has 2. I figure it will be about 5 years or less before all the cd drives will be replaced with dvd's. we are probably going to have to update again when Xiphos is capable of getting books from a cd. I understand that currently it doesn't. So at some point in the future, we could make a DVD ISO that includes Xiphos? anyone interested? what do you think? I usually type in pretty much all lower case. ------------ Jim Michaels jmichae3 at yahoo.com JimM at JimsComputerRepairandWebDesign.com http://JimsComputerRepairandWebDesign.com http://JesusnJim.com (my personal site, has software) http://DoLifeComputers.JesusnJim.com (group which I lead) --- Computer memory/disk size measurements: [KB KiB] [MB MiB] [GB GiB] [TB TiB] [10^3B=1000B=1KB][10^6B=1000000B=1MB][10^9B=1000000000B=1GB][10^12B=1000000000000B=1TB] [2^10B=1024B=1KiB][2^20B=1048576B=1MiB][2^30B=1073741824B=1GiB][2^40B=1099511627776B=1TiB] Note: disk size is measured in MB, GB, or TB, not in MiB, GiB, or TiB. computer memory (RAM) is measured in MiB and GiB. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Mon Sep 6 10:03:56 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:03:56 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Managing Bible translation In-Reply-To: <1283753377.1196.1.camel@2530p> References: <1283691342.6034.144.camel@antiloop> <1283713084.2332.5.camel@antiloop> <1283753377.1196.1.camel@2530p> Message-ID: On 6 September 2010 07:09, Teus Benschop wrote: >> > ? ? ? ? I am thinking of ways to manage Bible translation well in >> > ? ? ? ? git/bzr/svn or >> > ? ? ? ? whatever other VCS or DVCS. > There is xml2po tool designed in Gnome which extracts translatable strings from XML and generates "pot" template and "po" translation files. This can then be stored in a bzr branch and imported into launchpad.net. That way both bzr can be used to translate offline using familiar tools e.g. poedit. As well translations can be done online using Launchpad.net website. xml2po might need changes to process OSIS better. From jmichae3 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 6 16:24:54 2010 From: jmichae3 at yahoo.com (Jim Michaels) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] updated sword project ISO In-Reply-To: <22745.83939.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <22745.83939.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <825241.31156.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just thought of something. all the windows 98 machines I know of have companion dvd-rom drives in them. all replacement drives these days are going to be dvd-roms or DVD burners. I think we could do a DVD ISO with xiphos in the package. what do you think? ________________________________ From: Jim Michaels To: sword-developer forum Sent: Mon, September 6, 2010 1:19:29 AM Subject: [sword-devel] updated sword project ISO the Sword Project ISO needs updating. a new app that will be added to the collection as a user choice is Xiphos. I was told there is a need for someone to facilitate/manage this project (after a discussion about a Xiphos ISO). I am new to all this, I have only been a user of Xiphos and the Sword Project. I am also willing to contribute to the windows part of the effort any way I can. - I can write NSIS installers, that's easy. - I can also write simple windows apps in Auto-It3 ( makes dialogs to launch other programs) with a few lines of code - it's sort of like BASIC, but it can control things. - I can write command-line C++ apps, if that's of any use. I usually combine that with the above. - I can build ISOs, I have mkisofs for windows (I get it from http://sf.net/projects/cdrtfe, a cd burning program that uses a cdrtools port from UNIX). I am not quite sure how well mac resources will work on my PC... maybe the mac stuff should be a universal dmg? there are a number of mac platforms to target.... and I am not entirely familiar with the mac platform, but I do make mac apps available on my own ISOs, so I am not totally blind either. If there is nobody to write the replacement windows front-end app, I could do it easily, but it won't look as good as the old one. the new one is going to have to call a different installer rather than directly run My understanding is that there are pre-built software components that simply need to be assembled in the right way, with the possible exception of the front end app (I could be wrong)? A cd can store 738MB (not MiB), so there should be room for more of the sword project, but xiphos is 25MB and the sword project is 714MB which is 1MB over the top, so xiphos is not going to fit in a cd per se, but it would fit in a DVD ISO. there are still working cd drives out there, I have a client who has 2 and my mom has 2. I figure it will be about 5 years or less before all the cd drives will be replaced with dvd's. we are probably going to have to update again when Xiphos is capable of getting books from a cd. I understand that currently it doesn't. So at some point in the future, we could make a DVD ISO that includes Xiphos? anyone interested? what do you think? I usually type in pretty much all lower case. ------------ Jim Michaels jmichae3 at yahoo.com JimM at JimsComputerRepairandWebDesign.com http://JimsComputerRepairandWebDesign.com http://JesusnJim.com (my personal site, has software) http://DoLifeComputers.JesusnJim.com (group which I lead) --- Computer memory/disk size measurements: [KB KiB] [MB MiB] [GB GiB] [TB TiB] [10^3B=1000B=1KB][10^6B=1000000B=1MB][10^9B=1000000000B=1GB][10^12B=1000000000000B=1TB] [2^10B=1024B=1KiB][2^20B=1048576B=1MiB][2^30B=1073741824B=1GiB][2^40B=1099511627776B=1TiB] Note: disk size is measured in MB, GB, or TB, not in MiB, GiB, or TiB. computer memory (RAM) is measured in MiB and GiB. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niccarter at mac.com Mon Sep 6 18:38:43 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 11:38:43 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 In-Reply-To: <304C6626E4201F4F86FA5A2A6AF4B1213D64EC6FB7@V058MBX001002.ds1.ad.absa.co.za> References: <94F8884C-87B9-4CF5-B160-DA770821A782@mac.com> <304C6626E4201F4F86FA5A2A6AF4B1213D64EC6FB7@V058MBX001002.ds1.ad.absa.co.za> Message-ID: <74C11562-ADCD-4795-904F-F6445C858035@mac.com> Hoping that Notes, improved Bookmarks & improved search UI are going to be the next version... That's the plan right now, but we'll see what ends up happening. :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword On 03/09/2010, at 2:40 PM, Johan Marais (johanma at absa.co.za) wrote: > Good news, thank you Nic. > > When do you plan to add the functionality to add notes to verses please? > > In His Name, > > Johan Marais From kcarnold at alum.mit.edu Mon Sep 6 14:41:24 2010 From: kcarnold at alum.mit.edu (Kenneth Arnold) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 17:41:24 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: This thread got rather sidetracked by the version control issue; personally I use git daily but usually in a centralized workflow. I think between github and GUIs like TortoiseGit it's not a big burden for new users ("just remember to Push"). Also, many open-source projects I follow have switched from bzr/Launchpad to github. But I have no strong feelings on what direction the various projects here should go. Now back on topic... Once the libsword-JNI bindings are stabilized and the build process is smoothed out, the only significant difference between them and JSword for Android should be speed, so let's measure that. There may also be differences in formatting, so let's go with the one that formats better and is faster. (Caching and prefetch could smooth over most visible speed differences, so maybe it's just which one formats better.) I also once lamented the complexity of doing simple things with the libsword C++ API, but I wrote a Python ztext reader instead of what I should have done, which is: help improve the code :) It doesn't look like the current way and-bible uses WebView allows you to do much with the text besides display it. I'm considering replacing the static page with a Javascript viewer that calls Java methods using addJavascriptInterface [1]. This would theoretically allow accurate verse position information and continuous scrolling (assuming the ability to call Javascript from Java, which may be possible with loadUrl [2]), but would require some significant HTML and Javascript work. Are there any web-based SWORD viewers that might be adaptable to that purpose? Btw, PocketSword users, how do you like the interface? Should we just do the same thing on Android? For those that would prefer to pay now instead of waiting for open-source, CadreBible and Olive Tree's BibleReader both have nice (though not perfect) interfaces. So Martin, enjoy your holidays and see you when you get back. -Ken [1] http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html#addJavascriptInterface%28java.lang.Object,%20java.lang.String%29 [2] http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6ed23efa4d22f7e6 On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham wrote: > Hi, > > Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or if it > is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible.? I thought > about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions?if > you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just can't > understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails that > the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work.? Jsword also needs > some optimisations and tweaks but I?am more confident with Java.? So if you > use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I always > planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good start. > There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword but > realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would be > difficult to make the back-end switchable. > > Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list.? What do others > think?? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar with > it and it has great eclipse integration.? Personally I have to use PVCS and > Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me.? Nic recently > transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy.? However, as > everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in > and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should keep > my head down and not be distracted. > > I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a while. > Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! > > btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* 4xA > and a B in her GCSEs -?the holiday begins. > Best regards > Martin > > On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com?? It >> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make >> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion.? The built-in wiki >> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >> >> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig >> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter >> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them.? If I could have >> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not >> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily >> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >> >> Just my $0.02. >> >> Thanks, >> -Bill >> >> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Martin and Troy, >>> >>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword >>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and >>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning that >>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor >>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >>> >>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace the >>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but I >>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could be a >>> useful example if we decide to go that way. >>> >>> Should we continue discussion on this list? >>> >>> -Ken (mobile) >>> >>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Ken, >>> >>> Thank you for the debug. ?I also have had trouble with the installer and >>> haven't had time to look into it. >>> >>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for the >>> java-jni bindings for Android. ?I mostly work in the engine code. ?The >>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >>> up occasionally to our server. ?Last year my drive crashed and I lost >>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. ?Here is an email >>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >>> >>> ______________________ >>> >>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >>> laptop. ?I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >>> weeks of work in the crash. ?I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >>> in the apk. ?Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >>> together: >>> >>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >>> >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >>> >>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >>> >>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >>> it's a little bigger): >>> >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >>> >>> Current backup of source which built the above: >>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >>> >>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. ?I am fumbling >>> through it all. >>> >>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. ?It sometimes connects >>> and downloads and other times it does not. ?I thought it might be the >>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >>> in the native library. ?I've found serious bugs in Android's system >>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >>> fixed it. ?I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. ?That >>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >>> issue. ?I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >>> .apk. ?Maybe the older version worked better? ?Or maybe a newer version >>> of Android or new phone works better? >>> >>> Let me know what you find. >>> >>> Troy >>> >>> >>> >>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >>> > I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Bill Burton >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From dmsmith at crosswire.org Tue Sep 7 07:40:14 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 10:40:14 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> Some thoughts on whether to use JSword or SWORD: SWORD will be faster than JSword, but for the most part it won't matter. The primary work of a Bible application are: a) Convert a reference into a disk read. For a chapter of references, even Psalm 119, this is so fast for both that it won't be noticed. b) Read each reference from disk. The speed differences between the two are dwarfed by the IO costs. c) Render into HTML the raw data of a chapter. Here, I'll guess that SWORD will seem a bit snappier if Bible Desktop's method of rendering is used. If another method of rendering is done, I think it will be a nit. If BD's xslt mechanism is used, it is more flexible allowing for different style sheets. d) Do a search and get a list of hits. Presuming the use of Lucene, the cost will be several fold: Building an index (SWORD will be faster as it does less), searching an index (tie, as it is IO bound). JSword has a more feature laden index (e.g. verse text, notes, headers, xrefs, stemming, ...). Basically, I don't think that one needs to measure "between the keystroke" differences. One needs to measure user experience. Another major difference between the two is that JSword lags SWORD in module support. E.g. it lacks av11n. And at the moment it requires http download of zips. I have an old Win98 laptop with less than 400M of RAM and Bible Desktop runs on it just fine. My impression is that the smart phones are more capable than my old laptop. Of course, if I were to do it, I'd use JSword. In Him, DM On 09/06/2010 05:41 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: > This thread got rather sidetracked by the version control issue; > personally I use git daily but usually in a centralized workflow. I > think between github and GUIs like TortoiseGit it's not a big burden > for new users ("just remember to Push"). Also, many open-source > projects I follow have switched from bzr/Launchpad to github. But I > have no strong feelings on what direction the various projects here > should go. Now back on topic... > > Once the libsword-JNI bindings are stabilized and the build process is > smoothed out, the only significant difference between them and JSword > for Android should be speed, so let's measure that. There may also be > differences in formatting, so let's go with the one that formats > better and is faster. (Caching and prefetch could smooth over most > visible speed differences, so maybe it's just which one formats > better.) I also once lamented the complexity of doing simple things > with the libsword C++ API, but I wrote a Python ztext reader instead > of what I should have done, which is: help improve the code :) > > It doesn't look like the current way and-bible uses WebView allows you > to do much with the text besides display it. I'm considering replacing > the static page with a Javascript viewer that calls Java methods using > addJavascriptInterface [1]. This would theoretically allow accurate > verse position information and continuous scrolling (assuming the > ability to call Javascript from Java, which may be possible with > loadUrl [2]), but would require some significant HTML and Javascript > work. Are there any web-based SWORD viewers that might be adaptable to > that purpose? > > Btw, PocketSword users, how do you like the interface? Should we just > do the same thing on Android? > > For those that would prefer to pay now instead of waiting for > open-source, CadreBible and Olive Tree's BibleReader both have nice > (though not perfect) interfaces. > > So Martin, enjoy your holidays and see you when you get back. > > -Ken > > > [1] http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html#addJavascriptInterface%28java.lang.Object,%20java.lang.String%29 > [2] http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6ed23efa4d22f7e6 > > > > On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or if it >> is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I thought >> about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions if >> you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just can't >> understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails that >> the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also needs >> some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. So if you >> use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I always >> planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good start. >> There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword but >> realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would be >> difficult to make the back-end switchable. >> >> Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do others >> think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar with >> it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS and >> Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently >> transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, as >> everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in >> and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should keep >> my head down and not be distracted. >> >> I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a while. >> Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! >> >> btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* 4xA >> and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. >> Best regards >> Martin >> >> On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It >>> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make >>> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki >>> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >>> >>> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig >>> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter >>> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have >>> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not >>> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily >>> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >>> >>> Just my $0.02. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Bill >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Martin and Troy, >>>> >>>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword >>>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and >>>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning that >>>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor >>>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >>>> >>>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >>>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace the >>>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but I >>>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could be a >>>> useful example if we decide to go that way. >>>> >>>> Should we continue discussion on this list? >>>> >>>> -Ken (mobile) >>>> >>>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Ken, >>>> >>>> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer and >>>> haven't had time to look into it. >>>> >>>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for the >>>> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >>>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >>>> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >>>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an email >>>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >>>> >>>> ______________________ >>>> >>>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >>>> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >>>> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >>>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >>>> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >>>> together: >>>> >>>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >>>> >>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >>>> >>>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >>>> >>>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >>>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >>>> it's a little bigger): >>>> >>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >>>> >>>> Current backup of source which built the above: >>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >>>> >>>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >>>> through it all. >>>> >>>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >>>> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >>>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >>>> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >>>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >>>> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >>>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >>>> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >>>> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer version >>>> of Android or new phone works better? >>>> >>>> Let me know what you find. >>>> >>>> Troy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >>>>> I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... From mjdenham at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 08:26:49 2010 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 16:26:49 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Also C++/JNI requires use of the Android NDK which only generates code for ARMv5 or ARMv7-A architectures (see http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html) so not all Android devices would be supported. Regards Martin On 7 September 2010 15:40, DM Smith wrote: > Some thoughts on whether to use JSword or SWORD: > SWORD will be faster than JSword, but for the most part it won't matter. > The primary work of a Bible application are: > a) Convert a reference into a disk read. For a chapter of references, even > Psalm 119, this is so fast for both that it won't be noticed. > b) Read each reference from disk. The speed differences between the two are > dwarfed by the IO costs. > c) Render into HTML the raw data of a chapter. Here, I'll guess that SWORD > will seem a bit snappier if Bible Desktop's method of rendering is used. If > another method of rendering is done, I think it will be a nit. If BD's xslt > mechanism is used, it is more flexible allowing for different style sheets. > d) Do a search and get a list of hits. Presuming the use of Lucene, the > cost will be several fold: Building an index (SWORD will be faster as it > does less), searching an index (tie, as it is IO bound). JSword has a more > feature laden index (e.g. verse text, notes, headers, xrefs, stemming, ...). > > Basically, I don't think that one needs to measure "between the keystroke" > differences. One needs to measure user experience. > > Another major difference between the two is that JSword lags SWORD in > module support. E.g. it lacks av11n. And at the moment it requires http > download of zips. > > I have an old Win98 laptop with less than 400M of RAM and Bible Desktop > runs on it just fine. My impression is that the smart phones are more > capable than my old laptop. > > Of course, if I were to do it, I'd use JSword. > > In Him, > DM > > > > On 09/06/2010 05:41 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: > >> This thread got rather sidetracked by the version control issue; >> personally I use git daily but usually in a centralized workflow. I >> think between github and GUIs like TortoiseGit it's not a big burden >> for new users ("just remember to Push"). Also, many open-source >> projects I follow have switched from bzr/Launchpad to github. But I >> have no strong feelings on what direction the various projects here >> should go. Now back on topic... >> >> Once the libsword-JNI bindings are stabilized and the build process is >> smoothed out, the only significant difference between them and JSword >> for Android should be speed, so let's measure that. There may also be >> differences in formatting, so let's go with the one that formats >> better and is faster. (Caching and prefetch could smooth over most >> visible speed differences, so maybe it's just which one formats >> better.) I also once lamented the complexity of doing simple things >> with the libsword C++ API, but I wrote a Python ztext reader instead >> of what I should have done, which is: help improve the code :) >> >> It doesn't look like the current way and-bible uses WebView allows you >> to do much with the text besides display it. I'm considering replacing >> the static page with a Javascript viewer that calls Java methods using >> addJavascriptInterface [1]. This would theoretically allow accurate >> verse position information and continuous scrolling (assuming the >> ability to call Javascript from Java, which may be possible with >> loadUrl [2]), but would require some significant HTML and Javascript >> work. Are there any web-based SWORD viewers that might be adaptable to >> that purpose? >> >> Btw, PocketSword users, how do you like the interface? Should we just >> do the same thing on Android? >> >> For those that would prefer to pay now instead of waiting for >> open-source, CadreBible and Olive Tree's BibleReader both have nice >> (though not perfect) interfaces. >> >> So Martin, enjoy your holidays and see you when you get back. >> >> -Ken >> >> >> [1] >> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html#addJavascriptInterface%28java.lang.Object,%20java.lang.String%29 >> [2] >> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6ed23efa4d22f7e6 >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham >> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or if >>> it >>> is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I thought >>> about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions if >>> you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just >>> can't >>> understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails >>> that >>> the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also needs >>> some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. So if >>> you >>> use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I >>> always >>> planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good >>> start. >>> There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword >>> but >>> realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would be >>> difficult to make the back-end switchable. >>> >>> Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do >>> others >>> think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar >>> with >>> it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS >>> and >>> Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently >>> transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, as >>> everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in >>> and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should >>> keep >>> my head down and not be distracted. >>> >>> I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a >>> while. >>> Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! >>> >>> btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* >>> 4xA >>> and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. >>> Best regards >>> Martin >>> >>> On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? >>>> It >>>> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, >>>> make >>>> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in >>>> wiki >>>> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >>>> >>>> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig >>>> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a >>>> commiter >>>> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could >>>> have >>>> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not >>>> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily >>>> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >>>> >>>> Just my $0.02. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -Bill >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Martin and Troy, >>>>> >>>>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword >>>>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and >>>>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning >>>>> that >>>>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor >>>>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >>>>> >>>>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >>>>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace >>>>> the >>>>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but >>>>> I >>>>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could >>>>> be a >>>>> useful example if we decide to go that way. >>>>> >>>>> Should we continue discussion on this list? >>>>> >>>>> -Ken (mobile) >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Ken, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer >>>>> and >>>>> haven't had time to look into it. >>>>> >>>>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for >>>>> the >>>>> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >>>>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >>>>> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >>>>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an email >>>>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >>>>> >>>>> ______________________ >>>>> >>>>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >>>>> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >>>>> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >>>>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >>>>> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >>>>> together: >>>>> >>>>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >>>>> >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >>>>> >>>>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >>>>> >>>>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >>>>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >>>>> it's a little bigger): >>>>> >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >>>>> >>>>> Current backup of source which built the above: >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >>>>> >>>>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >>>>> through it all. >>>>> >>>>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >>>>> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >>>>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >>>>> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >>>>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >>>>> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >>>>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >>>>> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >>>>> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer version >>>>> of Android or new phone works better? >>>>> >>>>> Let me know what you find. >>>>> >>>>> Troy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... >>>>>> >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From funnylookinhat at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 09:36:36 2010 From: funnylookinhat at gmail.com (David Overcash) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 10:36:36 -0600 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Yeah - This should definitely use JSword. Negligible difference in performance, and much easier to maintain for other developers who want to get involved, etc. The Android NDK is definitely not somewhere you want to go unless you have to. :) On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 9:26 AM, Martin Denham wrote: > Also C++/JNI requires use of the Android NDK which only generates code for ARMv5 > or ARMv7-A architectures (see > http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html) so not all Android > devices would be supported. > > Regards > Martin > > > On 7 September 2010 15:40, DM Smith wrote: > >> Some thoughts on whether to use JSword or SWORD: >> SWORD will be faster than JSword, but for the most part it won't matter. >> The primary work of a Bible application are: >> a) Convert a reference into a disk read. For a chapter of references, even >> Psalm 119, this is so fast for both that it won't be noticed. >> b) Read each reference from disk. The speed differences between the two >> are dwarfed by the IO costs. >> c) Render into HTML the raw data of a chapter. Here, I'll guess that SWORD >> will seem a bit snappier if Bible Desktop's method of rendering is used. If >> another method of rendering is done, I think it will be a nit. If BD's xslt >> mechanism is used, it is more flexible allowing for different style sheets. >> d) Do a search and get a list of hits. Presuming the use of Lucene, the >> cost will be several fold: Building an index (SWORD will be faster as it >> does less), searching an index (tie, as it is IO bound). JSword has a more >> feature laden index (e.g. verse text, notes, headers, xrefs, stemming, ...). >> >> Basically, I don't think that one needs to measure "between the keystroke" >> differences. One needs to measure user experience. >> >> Another major difference between the two is that JSword lags SWORD in >> module support. E.g. it lacks av11n. And at the moment it requires http >> download of zips. >> >> I have an old Win98 laptop with less than 400M of RAM and Bible Desktop >> runs on it just fine. My impression is that the smart phones are more >> capable than my old laptop. >> >> Of course, if I were to do it, I'd use JSword. >> >> In Him, >> DM >> >> >> >> On 09/06/2010 05:41 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >> >>> This thread got rather sidetracked by the version control issue; >>> personally I use git daily but usually in a centralized workflow. I >>> think between github and GUIs like TortoiseGit it's not a big burden >>> for new users ("just remember to Push"). Also, many open-source >>> projects I follow have switched from bzr/Launchpad to github. But I >>> have no strong feelings on what direction the various projects here >>> should go. Now back on topic... >>> >>> Once the libsword-JNI bindings are stabilized and the build process is >>> smoothed out, the only significant difference between them and JSword >>> for Android should be speed, so let's measure that. There may also be >>> differences in formatting, so let's go with the one that formats >>> better and is faster. (Caching and prefetch could smooth over most >>> visible speed differences, so maybe it's just which one formats >>> better.) I also once lamented the complexity of doing simple things >>> with the libsword C++ API, but I wrote a Python ztext reader instead >>> of what I should have done, which is: help improve the code :) >>> >>> It doesn't look like the current way and-bible uses WebView allows you >>> to do much with the text besides display it. I'm considering replacing >>> the static page with a Javascript viewer that calls Java methods using >>> addJavascriptInterface [1]. This would theoretically allow accurate >>> verse position information and continuous scrolling (assuming the >>> ability to call Javascript from Java, which may be possible with >>> loadUrl [2]), but would require some significant HTML and Javascript >>> work. Are there any web-based SWORD viewers that might be adaptable to >>> that purpose? >>> >>> Btw, PocketSword users, how do you like the interface? Should we just >>> do the same thing on Android? >>> >>> For those that would prefer to pay now instead of waiting for >>> open-source, CadreBible and Olive Tree's BibleReader both have nice >>> (though not perfect) interfaces. >>> >>> So Martin, enjoy your holidays and see you when you get back. >>> >>> -Ken >>> >>> >>> [1] >>> http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html#addJavascriptInterface%28java.lang.Object,%20java.lang.String%29 >>> [2] >>> http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6ed23efa4d22f7e6 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or >>>> if it >>>> is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I thought >>>> about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions >>>> if >>>> you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just >>>> can't >>>> understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails >>>> that >>>> the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also needs >>>> some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. So if >>>> you >>>> use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I >>>> always >>>> planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good >>>> start. >>>> There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword >>>> but >>>> realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would be >>>> difficult to make the back-end switchable. >>>> >>>> Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do >>>> others >>>> think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar >>>> with >>>> it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS >>>> and >>>> Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently >>>> transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, as >>>> everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in >>>> and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should >>>> keep >>>> my head down and not be distracted. >>>> >>>> I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a >>>> while. >>>> Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! >>>> >>>> btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* >>>> 4xA >>>> and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. >>>> Best regards >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? >>>>> It >>>>> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, >>>>> make >>>>> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in >>>>> wiki >>>>> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >>>>> >>>>> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig >>>>> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a >>>>> commiter >>>>> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could >>>>> have >>>>> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or >>>>> not >>>>> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily >>>>> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >>>>> >>>>> Just my $0.02. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> -Bill >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold>>>> > >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Martin and Troy, >>>>>> >>>>>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword >>>>>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and >>>>>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning >>>>>> that >>>>>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor >>>>>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >>>>>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace >>>>>> the >>>>>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, >>>>>> but I >>>>>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could >>>>>> be a >>>>>> useful example if we decide to go that way. >>>>>> >>>>>> Should we continue discussion on this list? >>>>>> >>>>>> -Ken (mobile) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Ken, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer >>>>>> and >>>>>> haven't had time to look into it. >>>>>> >>>>>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for >>>>>> the >>>>>> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >>>>>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >>>>>> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >>>>>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an >>>>>> email >>>>>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >>>>>> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >>>>>> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >>>>>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what >>>>>> is >>>>>> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >>>>>> together: >>>>>> >>>>>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >>>>>> >>>>>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >>>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >>>>>> >>>>>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >>>>>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library >>>>>> so >>>>>> it's a little bigger): >>>>>> >>>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >>>>>> >>>>>> Current backup of source which built the above: >>>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >>>>>> >>>>>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >>>>>> through it all. >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >>>>>> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >>>>>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP >>>>>> code >>>>>> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >>>>>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >>>>>> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >>>>>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >>>>>> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the >>>>>> newer >>>>>> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer >>>>>> version >>>>>> of Android or new phone works better? >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me know what you find. >>>>>> >>>>>> Troy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... >>>>>>> >>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johan.marais at messianic.co.za Tue Sep 7 10:50:43 2010 From: johan.marais at messianic.co.za (Johan Marais) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:50:43 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 In-Reply-To: <74C11562-ADCD-4795-904F-F6445C858035@mac.com> References: <94F8884C-87B9-4CF5-B160-DA770821A782@mac.com><304C6626E4201F4F86FA5A2A6AF4B1213D64EC6FB7@V058MBX001002.ds1.ad.absa.co.za> <74C11562-ADCD-4795-904F-F6445C858035@mac.com> Message-ID: That will go a long way, thank you. Johan -----Original Message----- From: Nic Carter [mailto:niccarter at mac.com] Sent: 07 September 2010 03:39 AM To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum Subject: Re: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 Hoping that Notes, improved Bookmarks & improved search UI are going to be the next version... That's the plan right now, but we'll see what ends up happening. :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword On 03/09/2010, at 2:40 PM, Johan Marais (johanma at absa.co.za) wrote: > Good news, thank you Nic. > > When do you plan to add the functionality to add notes to verses please? > > In His Name, > > Johan Marais _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From pypsichok at yahoo.com Tue Sep 7 19:26:05 2010 From: pypsichok at yahoo.com (Pypsik Pypsik) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 (Johan Marais) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <479676.80092.qm@web45705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Nic, ? sometimes in the future, perhaps we(translators) can translate the "Search Help" text that explains how to search in PocketSword, (i.e loved one, "loved one", love*, etc.) Currently it is only in English, I'd figure it could be helpful to non-English folks to know about the powerful ways that the Bible can be searched. Any other translators interested in translating that?? ? If?there is interest, then Nic, just send a text in the format that is best for you. ? (Also, the term "loved one" that is used as an example,?is that?in a context of a verb or a description?, which makes a difference how to word it and explain it in the translation. So that we stay consistant with the example used across the many translations). ? Thanks and God Bless~ ? - Pypsik --- On Tue, 9/7/10, sword-devel-request at crosswire.org wrote: From: sword-devel-request at crosswire.org Subject: sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12 To: sword-devel at crosswire.org Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 7:00 PM Send sword-devel mailing list submissions to ??? sword-devel at crosswire.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? sword-devel-request at crosswire.org You can reach the person managing the list at ??? sword-devel-owner at crosswire.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sword-devel digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: PocketSword v1.3.2 (Johan Marais) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:50:43 +0200 From: "Johan Marais" To: "'SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum'" ??? Subject: Re: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset="us-ascii" That will go a long way, thank you. Johan -----Original Message----- From: Nic Carter [mailto:niccarter at mac.com] Sent: 07 September 2010 03:39 AM To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum Subject: Re: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 Hoping that Notes, improved Bookmarks & improved search UI are going to be the next version...? That's the plan right now, but we'll see what ends up happening.? :) Thanks, ybic ??? nic...? :) ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword On 03/09/2010, at 2:40 PM, Johan Marais (johanma at absa.co.za) wrote: > Good news, thank you Nic. > > When do you plan to add the functionality to add notes to verses please? > > In His Name, > > Johan Marais _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel End of sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 12 ******************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mahfiaz at gmail.com Tue Sep 7 22:48:10 2010 From: mahfiaz at gmail.com (Mattias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?P=F5ldaru?=) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:48:10 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 (Johan Marais) In-Reply-To: <479676.80092.qm@web45705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <479676.80092.qm@web45705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1283924890.29034.8.camel@antiloop> > (Also, the term "loved one" that is used as an example, is that in a > context of a verb or a description?, which makes a difference how to > word it and explain it in the translation. So that we stay consistant > with the example used across the many translations). "Loved one" would end up as one word for Estonian. But I don't think the example word pair has to be the same over languages, it is just an example. IMHO it would be enough, if it gave different results for all different showcases it represents. It could be related as well to something everybody recognizes, like John 3:16 or similar (but there are also good arguments against it). Mattias From niccarter at mac.com Wed Sep 8 02:11:20 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:11:20 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] PocketSword v1.3.2 (Johan Marais) In-Reply-To: <479676.80092.qm@web45705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <479676.80092.qm@web45705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6E0E75BD-DF9F-4232-98CD-00B1616CEF93@mac.com> Heya, I have avoided asking the translators to translate that help screen because I have been meaning to completely redo that screen. Unfortunately I haven't had time to actually do that yet, but that is scheduled for the next release. Once I've redone the search screen, then the help text will be redone & then I'll submit it to all the translators! Thanks for reminding me that that text is still only in English. Thanks, ybic nic... :) On 08/09/2010, at 12:26 PM, Pypsik Pypsik wrote: > Nic, > > sometimes in the future, perhaps we(translators) can translate the "Search Help" text that explains how to search in PocketSword, (i.e loved one, "loved one", love*, etc.) Currently it is only in English, I'd figure it could be helpful to non-English folks to know about the powerful ways that the Bible can be searched. > Any other translators interested in translating that? > > If there is interest, then Nic, just send a text in the format that is best for you. > > (Also, the term "loved one" that is used as an example, is that in a context of a verb or a description?, which makes a difference how to word it and explain it in the translation. So that we stay consistant with the example used across the many translations). > > Thanks and God Bless~ > > - Pypsik > From manfred.bergmann at me.com Wed Sep 8 12:26:23 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:26:23 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <0705A274-DF99-49BB-8DD3-AFCB05FFAE44@me.com> Am 07.09.2010 um 15:40 schrieb DM Smith: > Of course, if I were to do it, I'd use JSword. I would as well. Manfred > > On 09/06/2010 05:41 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >> This thread got rather sidetracked by the version control issue; >> personally I use git daily but usually in a centralized workflow. I >> think between github and GUIs like TortoiseGit it's not a big burden >> for new users ("just remember to Push"). Also, many open-source >> projects I follow have switched from bzr/Launchpad to github. But I >> have no strong feelings on what direction the various projects here >> should go. Now back on topic... >> >> Once the libsword-JNI bindings are stabilized and the build process is >> smoothed out, the only significant difference between them and JSword >> for Android should be speed, so let's measure that. There may also be >> differences in formatting, so let's go with the one that formats >> better and is faster. (Caching and prefetch could smooth over most >> visible speed differences, so maybe it's just which one formats >> better.) I also once lamented the complexity of doing simple things >> with the libsword C++ API, but I wrote a Python ztext reader instead >> of what I should have done, which is: help improve the code :) >> >> It doesn't look like the current way and-bible uses WebView allows you >> to do much with the text besides display it. I'm considering replacing >> the static page with a Javascript viewer that calls Java methods using >> addJavascriptInterface [1]. This would theoretically allow accurate >> verse position information and continuous scrolling (assuming the >> ability to call Javascript from Java, which may be possible with >> loadUrl [2]), but would require some significant HTML and Javascript >> work. Are there any web-based SWORD viewers that might be adaptable to >> that purpose? >> >> Btw, PocketSword users, how do you like the interface? Should we just >> do the same thing on Android? >> >> For those that would prefer to pay now instead of waiting for >> open-source, CadreBible and Olive Tree's BibleReader both have nice >> (though not perfect) interfaces. >> >> So Martin, enjoy your holidays and see you when you get back. >> >> -Ken >> >> >> [1] http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html#addJavascriptInterface%28java.lang.Object,%20java.lang.String%29 >> [2] http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6ed23efa4d22f7e6 >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or if it >>> is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I thought >>> about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions if >>> you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just can't >>> understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails that >>> the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also needs >>> some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. So if you >>> use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I always >>> planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good start. >>> There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword but >>> realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would be >>> difficult to make the back-end switchable. >>> >>> Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do others >>> think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar with >>> it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS and >>> Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently >>> transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, as >>> everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in >>> and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should keep >>> my head down and not be distracted. >>> >>> I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a while. >>> Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! >>> >>> btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* 4xA >>> and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. >>> Best regards >>> Martin >>> >>> On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? It >>>> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can fork, make >>>> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in wiki >>>> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. >>>> >>>> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig >>>> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a commiter >>>> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could have >>>> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or not >>>> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be readily >>>> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. >>>> >>>> Just my $0.02. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -Bill >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Martin and Troy, >>>>> >>>>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword >>>>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and >>>>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex warning that >>>>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor >>>>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. >>>>> >>>>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous >>>>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should replace the >>>>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, but I >>>>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could be a >>>>> useful example if we decide to go that way. >>>>> >>>>> Should we continue discussion on this list? >>>>> >>>>> -Ken (mobile) >>>>> >>>>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Ken, >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer and >>>>> haven't had time to look into it. >>>>> >>>>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for the >>>>> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. The >>>>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just backed >>>>> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost >>>>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an email >>>>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. >>>>> >>>>> ______________________ >>>>> >>>>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my >>>>> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 >>>>> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many of >>>>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what is >>>>> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things >>>>> together: >>>>> >>>>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: >>>>> >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk >>>>> >>>>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz >>>>> >>>>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new >>>>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library so >>>>> it's a little bigger): >>>>> >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk >>>>> >>>>> Current backup of source which built the above: >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz >>>>> >>>>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling >>>>> through it all. >>>>> >>>>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects >>>>> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the >>>>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP code >>>>> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system >>>>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't >>>>> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. That >>>>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent >>>>> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the newer >>>>> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer version >>>>> of Android or new phone works better? >>>>> >>>>> Let me know what you find. >>>>> >>>>> Troy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: >>>>>> I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From sonwon.1 at gmail.com Wed Sep 8 12:38:19 2010 From: sonwon.1 at gmail.com (SonWon) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:38:19 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <0705A274-DF99-49BB-8DD3-AFCB05FFAE44@me.com> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> <0705A274-DF99-49BB-8DD3-AFCB05FFAE44@me.com> Message-ID: I would use whatever had the highest speed. During a sermon you don't want to wait for the text to build. On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > > Am 07.09.2010 um 15:40 schrieb DM Smith: > > > Of course, if I were to do it, I'd use JSword. > > I would as well. > > > > Manfred > > > > > On 09/06/2010 05:41 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: > >> This thread got rather sidetracked by the version control issue; > >> personally I use git daily but usually in a centralized workflow. I > >> think between github and GUIs like TortoiseGit it's not a big burden > >> for new users ("just remember to Push"). Also, many open-source > >> projects I follow have switched from bzr/Launchpad to github. But I > >> have no strong feelings on what direction the various projects here > >> should go. Now back on topic... > >> > >> Once the libsword-JNI bindings are stabilized and the build process is > >> smoothed out, the only significant difference between them and JSword > >> for Android should be speed, so let's measure that. There may also be > >> differences in formatting, so let's go with the one that formats > >> better and is faster. (Caching and prefetch could smooth over most > >> visible speed differences, so maybe it's just which one formats > >> better.) I also once lamented the complexity of doing simple things > >> with the libsword C++ API, but I wrote a Python ztext reader instead > >> of what I should have done, which is: help improve the code :) > >> > >> It doesn't look like the current way and-bible uses WebView allows you > >> to do much with the text besides display it. I'm considering replacing > >> the static page with a Javascript viewer that calls Java methods using > >> addJavascriptInterface [1]. This would theoretically allow accurate > >> verse position information and continuous scrolling (assuming the > >> ability to call Javascript from Java, which may be possible with > >> loadUrl [2]), but would require some significant HTML and Javascript > >> work. Are there any web-based SWORD viewers that might be adaptable to > >> that purpose? > >> > >> Btw, PocketSword users, how do you like the interface? Should we just > >> do the same thing on Android? > >> > >> For those that would prefer to pay now instead of waiting for > >> open-source, CadreBible and Olive Tree's BibleReader both have nice > >> (though not perfect) interfaces. > >> > >> So Martin, enjoy your holidays and see you when you get back. > >> > >> -Ken > >> > >> > >> [1] > http://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebView.html#addJavascriptInterface%28java.lang.Object,%20java.lang.String%29 > >> [2] > http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/6ed23efa4d22f7e6 > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin Denham > wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Bishop is real fast but I don't know if that is all due to C++ code or > if it > >>> is not doing as much html processing/formatting as and-bible. I > thought > >>> about switching to the C++ libs but there are various h/w restrictions > if > >>> you use the ndk and also it is a long time since I use C++ and I just > can't > >>> understand the Sword C++ code anymore and it seems from Troy's e-mails > that > >>> the packaged ndk lib would need a fair bit more work. Jsword also > needs > >>> some optimisations and tweaks but I am more confident with Java. So if > you > >>> use C++ then feel free to continue Bishop or branch and-bible, but I > always > >>> planned to create a pure java bible and JSword gave me a really good > start. > >>> There is facade layer in and-bible that acts as an interface to JSword > but > >>> realistically so many helper classes are used in the ui that it would > be > >>> difficult to make the back-end switchable. > >>> > >>> Maybe the git idea is a good one and can be put on the list. What do > others > >>> think? I chose svn because I thought most developers would be familiar > with > >>> it and it has great eclipse integration. Personally I have to use PVCS > and > >>> Clearcase at work so even svn provided challenges for me. Nic recently > >>> transferred PocketSword to Mercurial and seemed very happy. However, > as > >>> everybody keeps commenting there is a whole load of functionality in > >>> and-bible that is missing and that needs improvement so maybe I should > keep > >>> my head down and not be distracted. > >>> > >>> I am on holiday at the moment so don't expect any new releases for a > while. > >>> Why am I typing e-mails while I am on holiday!!! > >>> > >>> btw I just want to share we just heard that my eldest daughter got 5xA* > 4xA > >>> and a B in her GCSEs - the holiday begins. > >>> Best regards > >>> Martin > >>> > >>> On 31 August 2010 19:11, Bill Burton wrote: > >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> On a related note, could this project be hosted on http://github.com? > It > >>>> would provide much better ability to collaborate since anyone can > fork, make > >>>> changes and then push them back for optional inclusion. The built-in > wiki > >>>> would make it easy to publish any appropriate docs. > >>>> > >>>> For an example of why this would be helpful, I have some libsword swig > >>>> bindings for Ruby that never got committed because no one who was a > commiter > >>>> had the time or inclination to step up and look at them. If I could > have > >>>> forked the swig bindings, and checked in my changes, then whether or > not > >>>> they became incorporated in the official version, they would be > readily > >>>> available for anyone to find, evaluate and/or fix. > >>>> > >>>> Just my $0.02. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> -Bill > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM, Kenneth Arnold< > kcarnold at alum.mit.edu> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> Hi Martin and Troy, > >>>>> > >>>>> I finally got the AndBible source built; I needed to get the jsword > >>>>> source and also raise the memory limit for Eclipse--it thrashed and > >>>>> eventually crashed in the linker/dex step. There's still a dex > warning that > >>>>> floods the Console, but it works on my Droid X. I made a few minor > >>>>> modifications to ensure I could, but nothing serious yet. > >>>>> > >>>>> Major things I'd like to work on as a user are navigation, continuous > >>>>> scrolling, and verse number sync. Also, do you think we should > replace the > >>>>> backend with native libsword? That might help formatting and speed, > but I > >>>>> don't know how deeply it's woven into the code. The Bishop code could > be a > >>>>> useful example if we decide to go that way. > >>>>> > >>>>> Should we continue discussion on this list? > >>>>> > >>>>> -Ken (mobile) > >>>>> > >>>>> On Aug 26, 2010 1:39 AM, "Troy A. Griffitts" > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Dear Ken, > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for the debug. I also have had trouble with the installer > and > >>>>> haven't had time to look into it. > >>>>> > >>>>> The history is that I build Bishop as a sort of proof of concept for > the > >>>>> java-jni bindings for Android. I mostly work in the engine code. > The > >>>>> jni binding code I kept in SWORD SVN and the Bishop code I just > backed > >>>>> up occasionally to our server. Last year my drive crashed and I lost > >>>>> some work but might have pieced it all back together. Here is an > email > >>>>> I sent to Gary with links to all my stuff. > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________ > >>>>> > >>>>> After last year when I started the work I had a harddrive die on my > >>>>> laptop. I had been backing up the work regularly, but lost about 2 > >>>>> weeks of work in the crash. I used a recovery tool to salvage many > of > >>>>> the files from the bishop project and think I may have close to what > is > >>>>> in the apk. Here are my resources if you want to try to piece things > >>>>> together: > >>>>> > >>>>> Lastest binary when I stopped, dated 11-18-2009: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop.apk > >>>>> > >>>>> Latest backup of source, dated 10-31-2009: > >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20091031.tar.gz > >>>>> > >>>>> Latest binary after reconstructing source and I think some small new > >>>>> work (I think this is built with debug symbols in the native library > so > >>>>> it's a little bigger): > >>>>> > >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop2.apk > >>>>> > >>>>> Current backup of source which built the above: > >>>>> http://crosswire.org/~scribe/bishop-20100804.tar.gz > >>>>> > >>>>> Please excuse my ignorance of Android programming. I am fumbling > >>>>> through it all. > >>>>> > >>>>> I remember having trouble with the InstallMgr. It sometimes connects > >>>>> and downloads and other times it does not. I thought it might be the > >>>>> limited memory on my G1 or some trouble with the timing of the FTP > code > >>>>> in the native library. I've found serious bugs in Android's system > >>>>> calls, (e.g. memccpy) and reported it to them, but they still haven't > >>>>> fixed it. I use my own version in the ftp lib to avoid the bug. > That > >>>>> is where I stopped-- thinking I needed to debug this ftp intermittent > >>>>> issue. I didn't compare how well the older .apk works versus the > newer > >>>>> .apk. Maybe the older version worked better? Or maybe a newer > version > >>>>> of Android or new phone works better? > >>>>> > >>>>> Let me know what you find. > >>>>> > >>>>> Troy > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 08/24/2010 09:01 PM, Kenneth Arnold wrote: > >>>>>> I just got an Android phone, and after seeing the... > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 9 15:52:31 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:52:31 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Portuguese translation - request for help In-Reply-To: References: <4BF246D9.7040404@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C89652F.20002@gmx.net> Several questions re XSLT: How can I select on (bits of/features of) content of the actual text node - e.g. the text being capitalised? How can I print out an attribute? How can I avoid the text content being printed while still working on the children nodes? I think i have made decent progress on this text, but there were long periods of inactivity until I understood the next steps. FWIW my process: I have received PDF files, no better source exists. I have used pdf2xml to create XML expressions of the underlying post script. I then have fairly painstakingly analysed the font size and other characteristics to decide which bit represents which structure. A perl script produces now a xml file based on above. This XML file is still ordered along pages and as a print layout, without any deeper hierarchy, so no actual textual structure. But at least the structure becomes perceivable in my naming of tags. I then take an XSLT sheet to create USFM from the text. This is closer to the structureless text than OSIS. I finally need another Perl script to clean things up a bit. (not yet written), but that will be straight forward. Thanks Peter From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 17:13:42 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:13:42 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Portuguese translation - request for help In-Reply-To: <4C89652F.20002@gmx.net> References: <4BF246D9.7040404@gmx.net> <4C89652F.20002@gmx.net> Message-ID: Greetings, Peter, On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Several questions re XSLT: > > How can I select on (bits of/features of) content of the actual text > node - e.g. the text being capitalised? Depending on the version of XSLT being used, there are certain functions that can be used which are built-in to XSLT. You would use the fn: namespace to access them. http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/xsl_functions.asp lists the ones that are in XSLT 1.0 which every XSLT processor you use will have. http://www.w3schools.com/xpath/xpath_functions.asp has the XSLT 2.0 functions, which most of your good quality XSLT processors will have. There are some XSLT 3.0 functions, I think, but the support for those will be more erratic than for XSLT 2.0. (one caveat I've encountered is that you must properly declare your version as 2.0 or 3.0 if you want support for those functions, otherwise they will not be handled). If none of the built-in functions fulfill your needs, you can always provide custom extension functions you register. Every good XSLT processor should have the ability to call something like fn:user_defined_func() which you then tie to a programming language's function. If you're calling, for instance, libxml2 from its Perl bindings, you can register a custom Perl function to be executed every time you want. If you're using xsltproc or something like that, you'll have to figure out how to hook in custom functions. I have used pyxsltproc in this way (it is xsltproc, written in python, using libxml2's bindings) but it has been a while. > > How can I print out an attribute? These are from memory, so forgive if I mess it up. You would use the element, and replace {xpath} with the path to the attribute, appending the attribute name with @. Given the following XHTML snippet

if your current context is the div, you would call > > How can I avoid the text content being printed while still working on > the children nodes? To get the text content you use . To process child nodes you would use That will not process the attributes of the current element. To do that as well you would want . > > I think i have made decent progress on this text, but there were long > periods of inactivity until I understood the next steps. > > FWIW my process: > I think your process is good. I don't know how you're applying the stylesheets, but if you are comfortable using Perl's libxml2 bindings or some other XML processing system, you could do all of that within a single Perl script. The only possible exception is pdf2xml - I don't know if that has bindings. Even if it doesn't, you could simply the process to "pdf2xml file.pdf | ./monolithic.pl" if you would like. There are drawbacks and benefits to doing it like that. Just a suggestion. --Greg From simalt at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 07:38:47 2010 From: simalt at gmail.com (Simon) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:38:47 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] AF Bible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I have a bible project in which I translated the free source text of the KJV received text from the Hebrew into the English. I want to donate that to the Sword project so they can take the New Testament my translation into the English convert it into a module and offer it to people free to download. I am not sure if you are the right person but could you point me to the right direction please? Simon Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the LORD. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." From refdoc at gmx.net Fri Sep 10 10:15:32 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:15:32 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Search bug Message-ID: <20100910171532.303940@gmx.net> A user contacted us via sword-bugs and advised that she had difficulties with search. She said that a KJV search for "tears" brought only 13 results instead of 35. I repeated the experiment on Xiphos on Windows and found a simple search for "tears" returns 34 results. A indexed search results in 35 results. Deleting my index again resulted again only in 34 results. The missing verse is Luke 7:44 where the word is in the "red zone". I will try and find out more from her, but it appears there is a bug - somewhere. Peter -- GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome From tom.t at aheart4seasia.org Sat Sep 11 04:13:24 2010 From: tom.t at aheart4seasia.org (Thomas Thorstad) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:13:24 +0700 Subject: [sword-devel] bpbible Translation Error Message-ID: Hey All, I have about 70% of the Lao Language completed for BPBible. The other is just not able to translate at this time, mostly because it isn?t needed. However I am receiving an error message when I load BPBible in to the Lao Language. Just for your note (?????????????) Means Error in Lao, so At least I know some of the script is working. It will not continue loading at this time. Any Ideas. The Font I am using is an Unicode font and I have the language format to be set to UFT-8 Formatting. Here is the Error Bellow: ????????????? ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xeaa) at index 2 ????????????? ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 ????????????? ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 ????????????? ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 ????????????? ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 Details: Traceback (most recent call last): File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in File "mainframe.pyo", line 186, in setup File "mainframe.pyo", line 836, in set_menus_up ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xeaa) at index 2 Traceback (most recent call last): File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 Traceback (most recent call last): File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 Traceback (most recent call last): File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 Traceback (most recent call last): File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 Just an FYI, My email is on the developer list however, I temporary disabled to for receiving emails it because I was getting overwhelmed by the emails and the internet is slow here so my Outlook would get stuck loading the emails. So please reply directly to my email below: Blessings, Tom T Tom.t at aheart4seasia.org Rev. Thomas Thorstad Founder, International Director A Heart For South East Asia Ministries www.aheart4seasia.org tom.t at heart4seasia.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Sat Sep 11 12:09:42 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 20:09:42 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Versification Message-ID: <4C8BD3F6.20607@gmx.net> How do you deal with a versification which is using two separate chapter counters in a book which aun in an interspersed way? 1, 2, 3, ... and A, B, C, .. This is to deal with Greek and Hebrew Esther and Daniel. To make it more complicated, some "numbered" chapters start and finish with a "lettered" chapter interspersed. 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, A:1, A:2, A:3, 1:4, 1:5... You get my drift. I would rather have it right, but I would rather have it working too. And that bugs me. This is obviously the Portuguese Bible. Peter From greg.hellings at gmail.com Sat Sep 11 12:15:57 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 14:15:57 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Versification In-Reply-To: <4C8BD3F6.20607@gmx.net> References: <4C8BD3F6.20607@gmx.net> Message-ID: Peter, I have brought this up before, relating it to the Jerusalem Bible, which does something similar. Instead of using A, B, C, etc, they simply will number a verse as "2:7, 1:3" to reflect both popular types of versification or they will go "1:1, 1:2, 1:2a, 1:2b, 1:2c, 1:3, 1:4" to indicate additional material present in Greek Esther or Daniel. No one has given me a solid answer as to how that would be encoded. I don't even know if the engine has support for chapter "numbers" that are represented as letters. It would be easiest to use a General Book driver which allows arbitrary key values, if the GenBook-VerseKey bridge was completed. I don't know that it is, as I haven't heard anything about it for some time. --Greg On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > How do you deal with a versification which is using two separate chapter > counters in a book which aun in an interspersed way? > > 1, 2, 3, ... > > and > > A, B, C, .. > > This is to deal with Greek and Hebrew Esther and Daniel. > > To make it more complicated, some "numbered" chapters start and finish > with a "lettered" chapter interspersed. > > 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, A:1, A:2, A:3, 1:4, 1:5... You get my drift. > > I would rather have it right, but I would rather have it working too. > And that bugs me. > > This is obviously the Portuguese Bible. > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Sun Sep 12 04:16:32 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 21:16:32 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] bpbible Translation Error In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tom, On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Thomas Thorstad wrote: > Hey All, > > > > I have about 70% of the Lao Language completed for BPBible. The other is > just not able to translate at this time, mostly because it isn?t needed. > > > > However I am receiving an error message when I load BPBible in to the Lao > Language. Just for your note (?????????????) Means Error in Lao, so At > least I know some of the script is working. It will not continue loading > at this time. Any Ideas. > > > > The Font I am using is an Unicode font and I have the language format to be > set to UFT-8 Formatting. > > > > > > Here is the Error Bellow: > ????????????? > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xeaa) at index 2 > > ????????????? > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > ????????????? > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > ????????????? > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > ????????????? > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > > > Details: > > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in > > File "mainframe.pyo", line 186, in setup > > File "mainframe.pyo", line 836, in set_menus_up > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xeaa) at index 2 > > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in > > File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in > > File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in > > File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > > > Traceback (most recent call last): > > File "wx\_core.pyo", line 14368, in > > File "search\searchpanel.pyo", line 265, in set_version > > ValueError: unsupported format character '?' (0xe82) at index 1 > > > It seems most likely that it is an encoding error (e.g. that some of the strings in the file are not valid UTF-8). These kinds of encoding issues aren't always easy to track down. Just an FYI, My email is on the developer list however, I temporary disabled > to for receiving emails it because I was getting overwhelmed by the emails > and the internet is slow here so my Outlook would get stuck loading the > emails. So please reply directly to my email below: > I suggest you subscribe to the bpbible-translators mailing list ( http://groups.google.com/group/bpbible-translators) and continue this discussion there to minimise disruption to other SWORD developers. It is guaranteed to be low traffic. Thanks, Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Sun Sep 12 18:08:04 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 02:08:04 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] AF Bible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C8D7974.7010000@gmx.net> On 10/09/10 15:38, Simon wrote: > Hi, > > I have a bible project in which I translated the free source text of > the KJV received text from the Hebrew into the English. I want to > donate that to the Sword project so they can take the New Testament my > translation into the English convert it into a module and offer it to > people free to download. I am not sure if you are the right person but > could you point me to the right direction please? > > You can try to create your own module. http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:Modules You also wrote to me personally. I am sorry, I will be unable to assist beyond this email. From refdoc at gmx.net Sun Sep 12 18:12:19 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 02:12:19 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Versification In-Reply-To: References: <4C8BD3F6.20607@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C8D7A73.60503@gmx.net> On 11/09/10 20:15, Greg Hellings wrote: > No one has given me a solid answer as to how that would be encoded. That sounds not very encouraging. Peter From Ristioja at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 14:09:08 2010 From: Ristioja at gmail.com (Jaak Ristioja) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 00:09:08 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! Message-ID: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello! Please release a bugfix version of Sword ASAP! The current version 1.6.1 crashes with all recent versions of curl, while curl versions older than 7.20.0 are being removed from distributions. So this is very urgent. For the bug, see: http://www.crosswire.org/bugs/browse/API-128 Sword crashes mean crashes for all Sword applications using this functionality. This bug also blocks development work of applications dependent on Sword. We have been getting a lot of bug reports for BibleTime regarding this issue and we are very frustrated. Jaak Ristioja The BibleTime Team -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iQgcBAEBAgAGBQJMjpLuAAoJEFqwhAoGc/hv43lAAKj3bXRN9CQYcWtl0sOqgfXg uSkhQVfBhFETMVa19PdU/WEGhpW94P41s1QslayPhSXWGF/SKITOqtLfvF2FFKiR DdRWZOhAd+rERBGAyIkN86DvvpSI80E7IGQv2vXMrc6Uz9MBgZ0u4EIbkxlThG2i fhvHPU64GVY0dHZYQOl+hciPXGPsnm+T06ONC4bBzY08RnNpu0p/BRS2ptn1gvU4 mEbt6te1y7fl88gZt0yIsU2XEgmVWe3715bFtlIHC5tq4fmmuJ3q46tqQ+yOkF87 qTOHZwkfPPa0/HqVt/TdfVTJ9Ze7XzwjQVXgYYwiCAPkq01UOO0ROXb0UIqzl98O 9Ft8FESpbtPpWJ9Y6V07iK4HZwswN3Dm6AbSykJT7C/BBB+OgBA9BMKlheFUqmA5 snb1jQ6nAYKJU/FljNZLObgznzYVDuN3rzY3H5acT4yACVxNl7X8jE+800TBuKAU GczEKdWIRcVUROFKFr8f5AHR4pj1Oc4x4xq28jMZJCWKEhxtCDY1y0M9TVAl00kY 6DKeoXllnxt6xUcLUve10k+06dJhUkO0Lp9u7u/jrJlIvXU2k9rbSsA0zk25bObn ON9CMfGjNEqeED1yvxsb0juVZppkys2YI833vuQ5btwCuCatyTF4+H0F5AByKFMA Eb1hy/ieh/oqWT0KuiUoH7jWMfvRU1ET/QOUoPphYkBo1E+7i6GkPjjGnXI3ea83 yJ0B7QR48BPkgajpPeBEkU3SRX5IEwdYBhJTH8vRD6hohF6t73Fcd5/GyMKuQvBJ WzUMte4AHfA39S73i58KWQ7v3xbNODafmdL8lFENuP1VP2rSknXK8BKODCGbxL3u zZf9rybM7Cl1ZHGpWV1/fhErOlZzJb/koAGavqlgcRO9X7oWQXb40RLk1ka22YwH 54GqF51y4DeyXXW3vCSd7tP6Qyu5xksykhz8J9YZLnl2/BuGJgQl2SV2duUuQr9x TmU4wKcblohahkvRrJ512ZvYJOJzhOligoPjXkvNp4BKmw82Z9Yq1mpG2JFrlFRx ssAJS5Xmh7P/r5jIKFH3YRK36y62NoPn4PXVnJz1kFV3AEx9VQR3pTzrH89npjef 5CqM58eMEDnHGUB/yd3f9wociQyTn81iMQQOkJ9uIlVQlraal7fU9rJkEpVQAfQo iBC4owrecEOlwYwzj5kpZUAM1lBYPn6MRQYFjnnWX5U4+/R+190Lw+dT/RbxISUF 0AXwOBuy2NzABbKitdsqIzMq83vzakk3/zqTBTOfn2/4Ztr8zQTRYJrC/FWF4WxY 7TPp3Cj9vN5idNBXnB9g0B0T3BCWqmtkOJn5BmdVvou7ila09BOFgUCSgGit0yBw W3rbdw+dXlY3+cS32qQUBXBnkG1J8EoWjhHmmz9UhGLG1Omsdv+UXjBA7Fux/OYR P2aiOFt8S7PlMZsXsfpep8gE0dshAr5tsyqtXafWkLz+ieONZq1QubCWHX8HDYli BPWy2z78eziOoPspmOJfKMJhE+QKQBJj1CTaLOTgq70F3TW15S3G/lpJEUvhQsRT BsnbK/x5pbcXCvsZpteyjUcRpfPJ6UGC5nmk1OQezoKXx5yAAiy14+gZWV9AI5gr ZcbefMZ2/5Xilbeh7Y3EOKXXaDwMW5kPATzpj9HD7up/GUaM5Qb9OJiBjGbKJ6Ph yb1Lx2o2ffHu49m4qyeXK+CNz3dGfFnq8YDegRudELBmy7eVUK8a4964Q526K5Dh TYqnKLfDtxu0wDkbZey2SirzWhSN9GyET7ghWlEGqMmfY0jiU6k7//3B9X4MQNXq r/ygoFbJwLgxi0qe6ilp7Jat/bNBzTdbPfT/M27DISiiuIviDLfbAp5dU6b76BRM qKlHe7AqjBWDT4idbgA+7ZoklzX4SnQ3RZRYftqSowEpGcH221N9doBwtsIdtSyv RMGk0U8GoJ5K0x4Cd86/6LygbeEu6A6k8/EFWSpoEA7Rz2UgnVZoul6qlfq6v5tT e3TyTT+0f4jV4Ahdz7VJJSFA6gz4K6W723iC6N6/t6Lrc13ns2n/94XB/VG01iJF GNe4CZqq7/FmzsS7c6+BBb/s/DJ/2ZUcWgIrGdDVNLM9l8F/1o3ROU0hEJyci6iW 4y/dN+JMjCySTYrQGyQ9sRpZy+KjOpH4mWvfxGWVSlonau60rT2KWMPloB8W3mNo NyGAacyCKQ4Sz86HUGBJs6zvpJDS04q+WopFtPoNmE6wKQVtRSDtuqav3OX7eho+ QOoT6BSCEdA2XrPzqq+6JoElsKsoi/iN08HcnVej4H7B30Z2RHyBrAgOFkS2WnOI NDPdQs99E3AoD/XUCtmJV6A6g4sQN8Jq+LEgWbvCi5HesVINbubTsE/dRJdc5REc ta5xejyXsPD7mAN6jmYR5jJWvccfMVUQbdLtUFQLcmmmT5b4/Vxi4Bmdh833Deu0 n/3NvFjv6Y+Kz6KQDd/hXS7YvbJy5mU1GfCB2/VtAAA+49AtnfMVH2N6lqEeLqVj FnGIJxRcuNPlonxAKbxeCy4HrtWivuyNX5q3q6wUenfbpqqV9Jf6LHuN8mNgygRS U8wN4LNpfwcNAei3LDQBxx93GLzsc44t/bSlziX3zmz4f3y81V2PEWWho4fZ/WVG bivzbC+6xiMG+XGohrdSQ7/bOZwfZrHIVLP7ras3SpYrCS9wQ0YfUU+zs1peB3x4 fu0LVrmwcmXoaxhrhKcw =PE1K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From scribe at crosswire.org Mon Sep 13 15:07:32 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:07:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> We plan to release soon, but didn't know there was an urgent need. There are things unreleasable in head right now which need to be removed if we release 1.6.2 sooner rather than later. I was under the impression all distros already had our patch in their distribution. What distros release 1.6.1 unpatched? Troy On 09/13/2010 10:09 PM, Jaak Ristioja wrote: > Hello! > > Please release a bugfix version of Sword ASAP! The current version 1.6.1 > crashes with all recent versions of curl, while curl versions older than > 7.20.0 are being removed from distributions. So this is very urgent. For > the bug, see: > > http://www.crosswire.org/bugs/browse/API-128 > > Sword crashes mean crashes for all Sword applications using this > functionality. This bug also blocks development work of applications > dependent on Sword. We have been getting a lot of bug reports for > BibleTime regarding this issue and we are very frustrated. > > > Jaak Ristioja > The BibleTime Team _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From Ristioja at gmail.com Mon Sep 13 23:26:33 2010 From: Ristioja at gmail.com (Jaak Ristioja) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:26:33 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 14.09.2010 01:07, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > We plan to release soon, but didn't know there was an urgent need. > There are things unreleasable in head right now which need to be removed > if we release 1.6.2 sooner rather than later. Why not branch? > I was under the impression all distros already had our patch in their > distribution. What distros release 1.6.1 unpatched? Since there has probably been no announcement from Sword that distros should patch, all have learned it the hard way. I know for sure that Gentoo doesn't have it patched. If I remember correctly, an OpenSUSE user was the last to report the bug to BibleTime, so maybe OpenSUSE still has it unpatched. I'd rather ask you the opposite: Do you know specifically which distributions actually have it patched? Regards, Jaak -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iQgcBAEBAgAGBQJMjxWVAAoJEFqwhAoGc/hvZaY//A90RGpGyoAYZ87F++NwsARl ofOifA4VjMgFa3KQowq63usa15ReY43wu5z/VrzmwwgaZ0KyKszX0gK+rFc+Hxmd lT/kCAt7UhCZeejjxHJ+Lv7AiJBDkMvxjh1mHr08E7/tVuGb3ObWoPOx4JJGYUKH 3RGhsCEFWty8p3NsvWNYna7YMcoL9aRJJ9HT7IZ9RzPoTTs0tDIhlpesPm0ti8gg T3qd+bc16gG+Knew2tIvQXtKE5UNYL33M72YVi8mE0gbzNPDRUPu0addgXArBbn4 vNDnt8f2qBcRsqWkmzOfdfezALwu1Fgr01by4GhlshVU48gDIqXuWeuAaDGNFyVr b3RFOSsu537MQqTsXtylIioMirpZVs+lRaAJ+9M459itlb3G1oGVEowUcT08QJ3y qx7ov/bt++ji3sKpKYHMcBOMaI/bGVx6XhH29PP9ZTuI+wu9+A0Pu+125pRrVJks qmtn2rC73grfTs6XGx2Wb5svDULh0moxb+m9+vE47whuYZJ6ZMolQCl7ZAZGD2hD k0laYVsVa8dNDrPMDldA5ginq4KPe1oaTBHSPwWEno7FB1HYtwWlisi8+ZIgWrn3 YRV+OTp8NZmyGaGgRIHqMXAYui2SSOZ6xIN6Bf4kpvRgRLWY6ioJCk5u/aceZKIg +rlc1apU8DJPOf1RuNUjOWPFib5AXBl8Jkv4npgLQdCFq3UjBxldi5N628/vHDCR MJ9IDJ/Qzvn6p+HPG2ERhOlXtWUxMihh0K4Sid7iM92HQle57C0v2ZFHi7kitDmQ sgT1Uf3D7vSA2wH2l4VmFUSirxU+COEnoDBeq5cxUG5b5S8hrf9izskq3aI3xdKz 3bB6aPFJU5ig/0RA18d9t4o6+e5Q23G0NkBb8JBBKuv1bcSGXX9rvGB1e/7UJrX5 mRfQkCdFum0DnwIgajN/8yCZ6yklEEg7h5y39nUelkgpfTcNclm0qvKLRp4pFXqA vFsrrTA6PbrZVZAsOp3GqyvLNbCPYuFkcntf0zvO+kAUqXBjHoJdieCXE04hYr2m 8ybKe62m1MB3i4wmlRXGqs+asI3dYcax+tmTficJh8U+mArN90fXpCV5XV2oIzJz P6MSZWJte/pHj841C42q9ZDqaBNad7TU7LUVqdZvjrhX5fFh8H0Qyk+8KsU4+T0p srYTIgvBBuob5wSsI8LItuQ3KfMyzTLeQyv+E0wxjq3UR7rUhoXbh0WYvT9J9Rut jb7SUwREVzRCD9ycnps+o1LVWUQwa/ABCylPmNtUg7DfEcpW96MEmalvlLQoaguo Lsz7CGa47+6oTu6wFenkmeEVG4cvTqbD1mnACOZfHNCGA/gLzEISLIhVrnnBSiNG XIcmqcCcCyr8cEFTVTG0WnZL4rXRZSBiEeAQyojQWPaX4b6RzqvL1Yti2lH3o7HK iFTX15XXnzyUHECoUIWEIcJPgeEq9UuOKTbvAnYMpEMTMEkzott6VryS9UttounX mcsRjW7odMu4sJeXSOLaj4E/vNvSWU/6wGzgdghsTI6kSJg43k0I5Y4VAGDrkw+U 5r1n1aJdIuzxHdnWue8GstJPHSiiRDjoeQZrmBjT3Nywb2ItMcNE7FwlNgAE2ZbR UtvCaBIrvvyyLBso5CaXM61+pH22ulI1//tlo7fqJjSjVTMxmb4ffbQ8H5LPOCJq vJlls1AKn5rY+cPf/vWgmIGYwmDex4nbTDFS5giuu9kOpJRZGiamg8ynbML36eEb vqfp+3vVGcUR/R3JYDB4NedQtHlkVNj1slNA4nVgDYycLNr1b+OcmtlUdFG5XH2t FQQIspreB5SZENzsQj1n1RYIQJe6MmjJveq5vZIcYq/k9xJdvbs+cdkmDnANp6Kt LqIWHVHcZ+RaOkkfeWisL8Io2Yj1qd5yuAdG68OXW1TYqFQhBZ7QID0i12ElLtjI 41XNQ5a3F0IXwd8GD7Vku+DPFAkR9S31DXEtAQvKtwelOIZbF8Rtt7KixEGI35Az OTXICupfTxwwVX75r4eIK1jFELE+PI4jSeP/Wxd/X6v8O8KHoEsnc2XQjQAUtkpY mdoEagHw4v8YI3nyWhXWHEfRxs/KGe1ImUFIVIiudBKwmArWwZWeK5t11la//ehH OLDwwKhMvWkNuuOF3dg3XUq3MpZqJVgmzUmeNUudZ3V0Frr1kZwO8pC194tcpUFa tGkMt60f3oRuewk6qyDeN3fE9rg3lcbHtLye+3A68YaDKqUTNX7emIAKAIB/1RGU eTYViRhaBPoagDA3FZZNFffr5zd7zmoEIdMGFTVnG+34K9PYhfMALuOhhJoXW+pc FsMpaudLYM68aEMIuIG30YV2kajzXK3LTQRjwwU/k1Ms1VoaadFT/kg1Cc0aThtF HBDJ5Nmc+3b8URdr6rZkH9TadRVjZLte3+tb17TjPKXCeuALP8nMN9XxNw+FbJNE 3zqbdddix3gfBqYlIqamhPD+FDleGVHg3ZWHYGjasygOUGTU1luFwHb7W2tw5iSr pocO8hFrrcKhA0S00GIoE6jb1rFxOK4ce4di57spTDUkipa2cbxyO+tfytqtdUQR xibGgByo3g7vFXaVZN9LHjxKf0VbLuONcEGEYxnzHDGs41YG72qus9BzPOGqYo8U adGh/djgfJY0PgTqjfsc1woEdTe8WPHz8rnFhOjRFdNgIGKBeyjYYWtUTc/Y5C57 xKHLSGsbJliU412C/tTj =AuFO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From niccarter at mac.com Tue Sep 14 01:03:39 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:03:39 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Proposed extension to the URI scheme Message-ID: <664139B5-AFEB-470E-85FC-C7BD21E8420A@mac.com> Hi gang, I've been talking to a PocketSword user (who wishes to launch PS from other iPhone apps using sword:// ) and we've come up with an extension to the standard URI scheme. I have documented it in the wiki: http://crosswire.org/wiki/Frontends:URI_Standard#Proposed_extension Note that this extension is probably only going to be used on iOS devices at this point, hence probably doesn't need to be implemented anywhere else, but I like things being standard, rather than everyone doing things their own way. But if other front-ends want to be able to support this, the minimum amount of effort required should be to parse until hitting a '?' (or the end of the URI) and only use that part and ignoring the rest of the URI (which is completely optional)? That's assuming that a key for a GenBook (or dictionary) can't contain a '?' character... Reproduced here from the wiki: We (PocketSword) are looking at extending the current situation to allow other applications to open a particular module/verse in our front-end (and, possibly, others?). We're taking the current situation and adding an optional query to the end of the URI. The query is only looked at if the module requested is empty or the module is not installed. The new format would be: sword://[optional module]/[ref, module type dependent][optional query] where the optional query is in the form: ?type=[module type]&module=list where ? module type == 'bible' || 'commentary' || 'dictionary' || 'genbook' (etc) ? module=list part is optional and means that if the supplied module isn't installed (or there is no module specified), the app will firstly bring up a list of modules of the type specified & then when the user selects a module, the verse is viewed in that module. How this is actually done in different front-ends is up to each front-end, but that's the idea for PocketSword. So, if we don't have a module specified OR the specified module isn't installed, then: ? IF module=list is specified, we will bring up a list of the modules, as described above. ? ELSE we will use the default module of the type specified. Thanks heaps, and comments and suggestions very welcome! :) ybic nic... :) ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 14 02:58:39 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 05:58:39 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> (Jaak Ristioja's message of "Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:26:33 +0300") References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> Message-ID: Jaak Ristioja writes: > Why not branch? Because branching is a whole new world of pain, for something as straightforward as a workaround patch for a curl library bug. It's a one-line patch, for pity's sake. > Since there has probably been no announcement from Sword that distros > should patch, Um... Procession from false assumption. Anyone who's involved enough to be doing distribution of Sword software ought to be involved enough to be seeing discussion about such things as the curl bug and its patch here. When the bug was encountered, there was rather a lot of activity about it. Anyone who didn't see it...just wasn't watching. > If I remember correctly, an OpenSUSE user was the last to report the > bug to BibleTime, so maybe OpenSUSE still has it unpatched. No. Brian Dumont is on top of that, and has informed me in the past that appropriate updates were available as of Aug 05. Whether updated builds get to the field properly is a whole different question -- e.g. we have the annoying nightmare that a Xiphos display workaround release for an xulrunner bug, fixed in May, hasn't gotten back to Ubuntu repositories, though it's available elsewhere just fine (via CrossWire's Ubuntu PPA for Sword builds). From mg.pub at gmx.net Tue Sep 14 03:19:32 2010 From: mg.pub at gmx.net (Martin Gruner) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:19:32 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> Hi Karl, branching is not a pain for this kind of purpose. Just branch off the repository state of 1.5.1 (I guess there is a tag available), apply the one-liner, and release a 1.5.1.1. A bugfix release. That should have been the answer to the problems at hand, not a patch. mg Am 14.09.10 11:58, schrieb Karl Kleinpaste: > Jaak Ristioja writes: > >> Why not branch? >> > Because branching is a whole new world of pain, for something as > straightforward as a workaround patch for a curl library bug. It's a > one-line patch, for pity's sake. > > >> Since there has probably been no announcement from Sword that distros >> should patch, >> > Um... Procession from false assumption. Anyone who's involved enough > to be doing distribution of Sword software ought to be involved enough > to be seeing discussion about such things as the curl bug and its patch > here. > > When the bug was encountered, there was rather a lot of activity about > it. Anyone who didn't see it...just wasn't watching. > > >> If I remember correctly, an OpenSUSE user was the last to report the >> bug to BibleTime, so maybe OpenSUSE still has it unpatched. >> > No. Brian Dumont is on top of that, and has > informed me in the past that appropriate updates were available as of > Aug 05. > > Whether updated builds get to the field properly is a whole different > question -- e.g. we have the annoying nightmare that a Xiphos display > workaround release for an xulrunner bug, fixed in May, hasn't gotten > back to Ubuntu repositories, though it's available elsewhere just fine > (via CrossWire's Ubuntu PPA for Sword builds). > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > From caleb at alerque.com Tue Sep 14 03:35:06 2010 From: caleb at alerque.com (Caleb Maclennan) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 13:35:06 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:58, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: >> Since there has probably been no announcement from Sword that distros >> should patch, > > Um... ?Procession from false assumption. ?Anyone who's involved enough > to be doing distribution of Sword software ought to be involved enough > to be seeing discussion about such things as the curl bug and its patch > here. As a developer at PLD-Linux I long ago applied to patch in our package repository: http://cvs.pld-linux.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/packages/sword/sword.spec?rev=HEAD However I would like to weigh in to this discussion to say that any known bug that has to be patched in every major distribution before release ought to be enough to warrant a point release in the upstream project. There is no excuse for making every individual maintainer go to the trouble of figuring out what is wrong with a broken package and patching it. Caleb From mark at foresightlinux.org Tue Sep 14 03:38:36 2010 From: mark at foresightlinux.org (Mark Trompell) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:38:36 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <20100914123836.55695193@foresightlinux.org> Am Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:07:32 +0100 schrieb "Troy A. Griffitts" : > > We plan to release soon, but didn't know there was an urgent need. > There are things unreleasable in head right now which need to be > removed if we release 1.6.2 sooner rather than later. > > I was under the impression all distros already had our patch in their > distribution. What distros release 1.6.1 unpatched? Foresight Linux did until 2 minutes ago, because we still ship curl 7.19.x and didn't see that issue yet. I didn't even know that it exists until this thread popped up. > Troy Mark From manfred.bergmann at me.com Tue Sep 14 03:46:13 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 11:46:13 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> Message-ID: Am 14.09.2010 um 11:19 schrieb Martin Gruner: > Hi Karl, > > branching is not a pain for this kind of purpose. Just branch off the > repository state of 1.5.1 (I guess there is a tag available), apply the > one-liner, and release a 1.5.1.1. A bugfix release. That should have > been the answer to the problems at hand, not a patch. Right. Implement new features in trunk. Apply bug fixes to trunk and to a 1.6.1 branch or tag as well. No worries then about being forced to release untested new features for a bug fix release. Manfred > > Am 14.09.10 11:58, schrieb Karl Kleinpaste: >> Jaak Ristioja writes: >> >>> Why not branch? >>> >> Because branching is a whole new world of pain, for something as >> straightforward as a workaround patch for a curl library bug. It's a >> one-line patch, for pity's sake. >> >> >>> Since there has probably been no announcement from Sword that distros >>> should patch, >>> >> Um... Procession from false assumption. Anyone who's involved enough >> to be doing distribution of Sword software ought to be involved enough >> to be seeing discussion about such things as the curl bug and its patch >> here. >> >> When the bug was encountered, there was rather a lot of activity about >> it. Anyone who didn't see it...just wasn't watching. >> >> >>> If I remember correctly, an OpenSUSE user was the last to report the >>> bug to BibleTime, so maybe OpenSUSE still has it unpatched. >>> >> No. Brian Dumont is on top of that, and has >> informed me in the past that appropriate updates were available as of >> Aug 05. >> >> Whether updated builds get to the field properly is a whole different >> question -- e.g. we have the annoying nightmare that a Xiphos display >> workaround release for an xulrunner bug, fixed in May, hasn't gotten >> back to Ubuntu repositories, though it's available elsewhere just fine >> (via CrossWire's Ubuntu PPA for Sword builds). >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Tue Sep 14 10:43:12 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 18:43:12 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> Understood going forward. There were a few factors which made this a slightly non-standard situation. First, this wasn't exactly a bug fix. It was a workaround for a bug in a version of libcurl. I was hoping libcurl would be patched. And no, I personally didn't report the issue to the curl team, which I should have. Secondly, one of our frontend projects submitted a small update which changed something another of our frontends depended on. The second project had updated their code to still work with the new change, but they hadn't released yet. If they had released then everyone would be happy with us releasing SVN as is. As it stands right now 1 of the 2 projects will need to patch SVN for their frontend to work. So delaying was a hopeful but unfruitful exercise. It was a choice we made to with the best information we had at the time. All this to say, sometime the situation is a little more complicated than shear negligence, so please be kind when asking for a release. We're planning to release 1.6.2 probably next week so I hope this is quick enough. Troy On 9/14/2010 11:46 AM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > Am 14.09.2010 um 11:19 schrieb Martin Gruner: > >> Hi Karl, >> >> branching is not a pain for this kind of purpose. Just branch off the >> repository state of 1.5.1 (I guess there is a tag available), apply the >> one-liner, and release a 1.5.1.1. A bugfix release. That should have >> been the answer to the problems at hand, not a patch. > Right. > Implement new features in trunk. Apply bug fixes to trunk and to a 1.6.1 branch or tag as well. > No worries then about being forced to release untested new features for a bug fix release. > > > Manfred > >> Am 14.09.10 11:58, schrieb Karl Kleinpaste: >>> Jaak Ristioja writes: >>> >>>> Why not branch? >>>> >>> Because branching is a whole new world of pain, for something as >>> straightforward as a workaround patch for a curl library bug. It's a >>> one-line patch, for pity's sake. >>> >>> >>>> Since there has probably been no announcement from Sword that distros >>>> should patch, >>>> >>> Um... Procession from false assumption. Anyone who's involved enough >>> to be doing distribution of Sword software ought to be involved enough >>> to be seeing discussion about such things as the curl bug and its patch >>> here. >>> >>> When the bug was encountered, there was rather a lot of activity about >>> it. Anyone who didn't see it...just wasn't watching. >>> >>> >>>> If I remember correctly, an OpenSUSE user was the last to report the >>>> bug to BibleTime, so maybe OpenSUSE still has it unpatched. >>>> >>> No. Brian Dumont is on top of that, and has >>> informed me in the past that appropriate updates were available as of >>> Aug 05. >>> >>> Whether updated builds get to the field properly is a whole different >>> question -- e.g. we have the annoying nightmare that a Xiphos display >>> workaround release for an xulrunner bug, fixed in May, hasn't gotten >>> back to Ubuntu repositories, though it's available elsewhere just fine >>> (via CrossWire's Ubuntu PPA for Sword builds). >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 10:49:35 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:49:35 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > ?Understood going forward. > > There were a few factors which made this a slightly non-standard situation. > ?First, this wasn't exactly a bug fix. ?It was a workaround for a bug in a > version of libcurl. ?I was hoping libcurl would be patched. ?And no, I > personally didn't report the issue to the curl team, which I should have. > ?Secondly, one of our frontend projects submitted a small update which > changed something another of our frontends depended on. ?The second project > had updated their code to still work with the new change, but they hadn't > released yet. ?If they had released then everyone would be happy with us > releasing SVN as is. ?As it stands right now 1 of the 2 projects will need > to patch SVN for their frontend to work. ?So delaying was a hopeful but > unfruitful exercise. ?It was a choice we made to with the best information > we had at the time. Not knowing the nature of the changes, etc, I don't mean to provide this as a comment on that, but I'd just like to bring back up this email: http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2009-June/032108.html and see if that's still the plan? If you're actually changing how things are working inside (in the sense of enhancing for new modules and content like the NASB and not just for fixing bugs), then maybe it is time to branch and allow for bug fixing/feature branches to develop separately until 1.7 is made? --Greg From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 14 11:42:49 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:42:49 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> Message-ID: I know for sure that Fedora (a few F11+ i think) Debian (squeeze+) and Ubuntu (well Karmic+ if you consider PPA or Lucid+ from main archive) are all patched. This is way to small for a bugfix release (I'd rather see more personally). This issue was not present a the time sword 1.6.1 was released, curl was the culprit. Just this bugfix is not worth a branch, a release, nothing. It was widely discussed on this mailing list, the patch is readily available from svn, most distributors have applyed it, and it doesn't affect statickly linked builds which are used (as far as I know) on Windows, Mac, Android, iOS (all of these together probably outweigh desktop distribution based Linux). This particular fix has been deployed in one of the OBS project for OpenSUSE users. I cannot comment about any source based distros as I don't follow their development. From scribe at crosswire.org Tue Sep 14 11:46:07 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:46:07 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4C8FC2EF.9030805@crosswire.org> Thanks for the email link Greg. Yeah, the submitted changes in question from project A were filter updates, and we do specifically state in that email that filter updates are allowed in a stable branch. It was kindof an odd situation. The updates merely added css classes to a few of the html tags which are outputted from the filters, none of the projects involved thought adding css classes would break anyone. One of the things in head currently which isn't mentioned in that email is binding improvements and also your additional cmake make system. I'm not sure how I feel about binding improvements being included in a stable branch, but I don't see an issue including an additional make system. Any thoughts? Troy On 9/14/2010 6:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Troy A. Griffitts > wrote: >> Understood going forward. >> >> There were a few factors which made this a slightly non-standard situation. >> First, this wasn't exactly a bug fix. It was a workaround for a bug in a >> version of libcurl. I was hoping libcurl would be patched. And no, I >> personally didn't report the issue to the curl team, which I should have. >> Secondly, one of our frontend projects submitted a small update which >> changed something another of our frontends depended on. The second project >> had updated their code to still work with the new change, but they hadn't >> released yet. If they had released then everyone would be happy with us >> releasing SVN as is. As it stands right now 1 of the 2 projects will need >> to patch SVN for their frontend to work. So delaying was a hopeful but >> unfruitful exercise. It was a choice we made to with the best information >> we had at the time. > Not knowing the nature of the changes, etc, I don't mean to provide > this as a comment on that, but I'd just like to bring back up this > email: > > http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2009-June/032108.html > > and see if that's still the plan? If you're actually changing how > things are working inside (in the sense of enhancing for new modules > and content like the NASB and not just for fixing bugs), then maybe it > is time to branch and allow for bug fixing/feature branches to develop > separately until 1.7 is made? > > --Greg > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Tue Sep 14 12:03:54 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:03:54 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8FC2EF.9030805@crosswire.org> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> <4C8FC2EF.9030805@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On 14 September 2010 19:46, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > ?Thanks for the email link Greg. ?Yeah, the submitted changes in question > from project A were filter updates, and we do specifically state in that > email that filter updates are allowed in a stable branch. ?It was kindof an > odd situation. ?The updates merely added css classes to a few of the html > tags which are outputted from the filters, none of the projects involved > thought adding css classes would break anyone. > > One of the things in head currently which isn't mentioned in that email is > binding improvements and also your additional cmake make system. ?I'm not > sure how I feel about binding improvements being included in a stable > branch, but I don't see an issue including an additional make system. ?Any > thoughts? > cmake stuff is not finished yet =/ there are still quite a bit of stuff that needs to be tested. Xiphos is not on a verge of a new release yet. /me changing hats Debian & Ubuntu do not particularly see any urgency in a sword release and rather wait for cmake to stabilise (at least I want CPack which can create tarballs) > Troy > > On 9/14/2010 6:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Troy A. Griffitts >> ?wrote: >>> >>> ?Understood going forward. >>> >>> There were a few factors which made this a slightly non-standard >>> situation. >>> ?First, this wasn't exactly a bug fix. ?It was a workaround for a bug in >>> a >>> version of libcurl. ?I was hoping libcurl would be patched. ?And no, I >>> personally didn't report the issue to the curl team, which I should have. >>> ?Secondly, one of our frontend projects submitted a small update which >>> changed something another of our frontends depended on. ?The second >>> project >>> had updated their code to still work with the new change, but they hadn't >>> released yet. ?If they had released then everyone would be happy with us >>> releasing SVN as is. ?As it stands right now 1 of the 2 projects will >>> need >>> to patch SVN for their frontend to work. ?So delaying was a hopeful but >>> unfruitful exercise. ?It was a choice we made to with the best >>> information >>> we had at the time. >> >> Not knowing the nature of the changes, etc, I don't mean to provide >> this as a comment on that, but I'd just like to bring back up this >> email: >> >> http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2009-June/032108.html >> >> and see if that's still the plan? ?If you're actually changing how >> things are working inside (in the sense of enhancing for new modules >> and content like the NASB and not just for fixing bugs), then maybe it >> is time to branch and allow for bug fixing/feature branches to develop >> separately until 1.7 is made? >> >> --Greg >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 17:55:58 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:55:58 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: <4C8FC2EF.9030805@crosswire.org> References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> <4C8FC2EF.9030805@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > ?Thanks for the email link Greg. ?Yeah, the submitted changes in question > from project A were filter updates, and we do specifically state in that > email that filter updates are allowed in a stable branch. ?It was kindof an > odd situation. ?The updates merely added css classes to a few of the html > tags which are outputted from the filters, none of the projects involved > thought adding css classes would break anyone. Huh, I can understand why! (btw - is it anything that broke Bibletime? I haven't heard of these breakages, so I would guess not) > > One of the things in head currently which isn't mentioned in that email is > binding improvements and also your additional cmake make system. ?I'm not > sure how I feel about binding improvements being included in a stable > branch, but I don't see an issue including an additional make system. ?Any > thoughts? IMO, it would be the other way. If people see a CMake system they will probably think it's exactly like the autotools, which is not easy to guarantee. I would think CMake should be held off for a feature update release and the bindings fixes should be included. My alterations in the bindings directory aren't adding new functionality - it's fixes for functionality which was there but long broken. I would hesitate to include those changes though, until we've heard from the BPBible team. I've asked a few times since I made the changes and haven't seen any comments from them on here. Either they don't use SVN HEAD in their development, or they haven't noticed any breakage. --Greg > > Troy > > On 9/14/2010 6:49 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Troy A. Griffitts >> ?wrote: >>> >>> ?Understood going forward. >>> >>> There were a few factors which made this a slightly non-standard >>> situation. >>> ?First, this wasn't exactly a bug fix. ?It was a workaround for a bug in >>> a >>> version of libcurl. ?I was hoping libcurl would be patched. ?And no, I >>> personally didn't report the issue to the curl team, which I should have. >>> ?Secondly, one of our frontend projects submitted a small update which >>> changed something another of our frontends depended on. ?The second >>> project >>> had updated their code to still work with the new change, but they hadn't >>> released yet. ?If they had released then everyone would be happy with us >>> releasing SVN as is. ?As it stands right now 1 of the 2 projects will >>> need >>> to patch SVN for their frontend to work. ?So delaying was a hopeful but >>> unfruitful exercise. ?It was a choice we made to with the best >>> information >>> we had at the time. >> >> Not knowing the nature of the changes, etc, I don't mean to provide >> this as a comment on that, but I'd just like to bring back up this >> email: >> >> http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2009-June/032108.html >> >> and see if that's still the plan? ?If you're actually changing how >> things are working inside (in the sense of enhancing for new modules >> and content like the NASB and not just for fixing bugs), then maybe it >> is time to branch and allow for bug fixing/feature branches to develop >> separately until 1.7 is made? >> >> --Greg >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From greg.hellings at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 17:57:51 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 19:57:51 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] CMake status (was Re: Sword 1.6.2 NOW!) Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote: > On 14 September 2010 19:46, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> ?Thanks for the email link Greg. ?Yeah, the submitted changes in question >> from project A were filter updates, and we do specifically state in that >> email that filter updates are allowed in a stable branch. ?It was kindof an >> odd situation. ?The updates merely added css classes to a few of the html >> tags which are outputted from the filters, none of the projects involved >> thought adding css classes would break anyone. >> >> One of the things in head currently which isn't mentioned in that email is >> binding improvements and also your additional cmake make system. ?I'm not >> sure how I feel about binding improvements being included in a stable >> branch, but I don't see an issue including an additional make system. ?Any >> thoughts? >> > > cmake stuff is not finished yet =/ there are still quite a bit of > stuff that needs to be tested. I would like to use this as another chance to implore people to try out the CMake system and report on how it is working for you. I have implemented everything Dmitrijs has so far asked me for except for CPack work. However, I haven't heard from other people if the system is working for anyone other than Dmitrijs and myself. --Greg From benpmorgan at gmail.com Tue Sep 14 18:32:46 2010 From: benpmorgan at gmail.com (Ben Morgan) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 11:32:46 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Sword 1.6.2 NOW! In-Reply-To: References: <4C8E92F4.1050507@gmail.com> <4C8EA0A4.50201@crosswire.org> <4C8F1599.6010007@gmail.com> <4C8F4C34.7080508@gmx.net> <4C8FB430.8010402@crosswire.org> <4C8FC2EF.9030805@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > > IMO, it would be the other way. If people see a CMake system they > will probably think it's exactly like the autotools, which is not easy > to guarantee. I would think CMake should be held off for a feature > update release and the bindings fixes should be included. My > alterations in the bindings directory aren't adding new functionality > - it's fixes for functionality which was there but long broken. I > would hesitate to include those changes though, until we've heard from > the BPBible team. I've asked a few times since I made the changes and > haven't seen any comments from them on here. Either they don't use > SVN HEAD in their development, or they haven't noticed any breakage. > > --Greg > I did try building sword with cmake on OS X and it seemed to work, as did the bindings. But I didn't ever get round to running with it. I'm doing that now, and it appears that there are problems with it with some of the VerseKey added methods like bookName (i.e. >>> vk = Sword.VerseKey() >>> vk.bookName(2, 2) b is null for 4536913?!? ) Could this be because the python version is linking against a libsword 1.6.1 dylib (which was already there from a previous compilation without cmake) and there have been changes in the .h files which it was including when building the swig which break things (i.e. no ABI compatibility with 1.6.1)? That's all I can think of. I haven't got any time to look at it at the moment really. Currently trying to use the cmake checked into sword's trunk gives this error: [ 3%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/buildtest.dir/buildtest.cpp.o Linking CXX executable buildtest [ 3%] Built target buildtest make[2]: *** No rule to make target `../sword', needed by `CMakeFiles/pythonswig'. Stop. make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/pythonswig.dir/all] Error 2 make: *** [all] Error 2 God Bless, Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Gi??n 3:14 (ESV) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 15 00:45:36 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:45:36 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] CMake status (was Re: Sword 1.6.2 NOW!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C9079A0.9040408@gmx.net> On 15/09/10 01:57, Greg Hellings wrote: > I would like to use this as another chance to implore people to try > out the CMake system and report on how it is working for you. I have > implemented everything Dmitrijs has so far asked me for except for > CPack work. However, I haven't heard from other people if the system > is working for anyone other than Dmitrijs and myself. I have build the bindings with it and that worked fine. I have also build at least once the library as a whole and it did do anything funny on me. Though how much this amounts to a proper test is beyond me to say. Peter From ransom1982 at gmail.com Wed Sep 15 18:03:57 2010 From: ransom1982 at gmail.com (Matthew Talbert) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:03:57 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] CMake status (was Re: Sword 1.6.2 NOW!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I would like to use this as another chance to implore people to try > out the CMake system and report on how it is working for you. ?I have > implemented everything Dmitrijs has so far asked me for except for > CPack work. ?However, I haven't heard from other people if the system > is working for anyone other than Dmitrijs and myself. I've used it and it works great for me on linux. It's much faster and produces much prettier output than autotools. Now I'm wanting to try it with both MinGW and cross-compiling. Have you tried it at all for cross-compiling? Thanks, Matthew From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 16 00:52:49 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:52:49 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] CMake status (was Re: Sword 1.6.2 NOW!) In-Reply-To: <4C9079A0.9040408@gmx.net> References: <4C9079A0.9040408@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C91CCD1.4030109@gmx.net> On 15/09/10 08:45, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > [..] it did do anything funny on me. [.]] It did _not_ do anything funny on me. Sorry about that. And yes, I second Matthew's comment on pretty output. Peter From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 16 07:44:30 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 15:44:30 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] using a dvcs for module creation Message-ID: <4C922D4E.8020002@gmx.net> Thanks to Matthew who has got me onto the idea to use a DVCS for module creation. This is a very useful idea particularly if the underlying texts are messy and need gradual adjustment at a variety of places. So, I fell for git, largely because the name appealed to me and it works so far quite well. My question: If I want to push intermittently point releases - like "NT completed", "with book introductions", "with footnotes" etc to a central server of what do I need to have for that? I.e. what does the remote server need installed? I want to set up my home server as a backup etc for that. And how can I use git to mess about with code at home but then commit to svn - e.g. the sword-tools section on CrossWire? At the moment I have two directories - one is sword-tools under svn where I check out from CrossWire and commit from too and another is a git based one. Whenever I think i have something worth pushing to CrossWire, I copy from one to the other and do a svn commit. I am sure this is not the most clever way... Thanks Peter From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 07:59:44 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 09:59:44 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] using a dvcs for module creation In-Reply-To: <4C922D4E.8020002@gmx.net> References: <4C922D4E.8020002@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Thanks to Matthew who has got me onto the idea to use a DVCS for module > creation. This is a very useful idea particularly if the underlying > texts are messy and need gradual adjustment at a variety of places. > > So, I fell for git, largely because the name appealed to me and it works > so far quite well. > > My question: If I want to push intermittently point releases - like "NT > completed", "with book introductions", "with footnotes" etc to a central > server of what do I need to have for that? I.e. what does the remote > server need installed? I want to set up my home server as a backup etc > for that. For the two DVCS that I've worked with, all you /need/ for doing personal work like that is SSH. Then you can push with something like bzr push ssh://myserver.com/~/myrepository or with git something like git remote add home ssh://myserver.com/~/myrepository git push origin home (or something like that - I don't follow git as often as I probably should). > > And how can I use git to mess about with code at home but then commit to > svn - e.g. the sword-tools section on CrossWire? At the moment I have > two directories - one is sword-tools under svn where I check out from > CrossWire and commit from too and another is a git based one. Whenever I > think i have something worth pushing to CrossWire, I copy from one to > the other and do a svn commit. I am sure this is not the most clever way... I haven't had to maintain a git-svn bridge, but in Bazaar it would be something like this bzr init-repo sword-tools/ cd sword-tools bzr co http://svn.crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trunk svn Now I have the directory structure sword-tools/ ---svn/ When I want to branch to edit something I will cd sword-tools/ bzr branch svn newbranch cd newbranch bzr add # only if I have added new files bzr commit cd ../svn bzr up # exact same as SVN up, makes sure there are not new items on the remote system bzr merge ../newbranch bzr commit As you see, with the exception of the 'bzr branch' and 'bzr merge', the commands are identical to the Subversion commands in meaning when you're using Bazaar as your tool of choice to interface with Subversion. It also allows you to keep your current strategy of having parallel directories - one with the canonical Subversion checkout and the other(s) with whatever you're working on. I find this to be the most delightful way of working with Subversion - because I have all the advantages of a DVCS, including I can push and pull and merge through Launchpad or my personal server or whatever else I want, without having to twist my mind around a new scheme and strategy. When operating off of a native Bazaar repository, there is one tiny difference in the initial "checkout" and one more command after the final commit, but you weren't asking about that. So that's my suggestion - go with Bazaar and save yourself some time and energy. :) --Greg From dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com Thu Sep 16 08:01:32 2010 From: dmitrij.ledkov at ubuntu.com (Dmitrijs Ledkovs) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:01:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] using a dvcs for module creation In-Reply-To: <4C922D4E.8020002@gmx.net> References: <4C922D4E.8020002@gmx.net> Message-ID: On 16 September 2010 15:44, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Thanks to Matthew who has got me onto the idea to use a DVCS for module > creation. This is a very useful idea particularly if the underlying > texts are messy and need gradual adjustment at a variety of places. > > So, I fell for git, largely because the name appealed to me and it works > so far quite well. > > My question: If I want to push intermittently point releases - like "NT > completed", "with book introductions", "with footnotes" etc to a central > server of what do I need to have for that? I.e. what does the remote > server need installed? I want to set up my home server as a backup etc > for that. > Remote server will need ssh & git daemon running + set-up a bare repository on the server: e.g. $ git init --bare tools.git Then on your machine you need to add remote, fetch it and then push the repo. > And how can I use git to mess about with code at home but then commit to > svn - e.g. the sword-tools section on CrossWire? You will have to create a git-svn clone & fidle with git-svn cache and meta data. It takes a couple of tries to get the import right. After that you can use your git repo to fiddle around and commit, but there will be no roundback since you will have to rebase each time you commit to svn and hence do force updates. I recommend to install bzr & bzr-svn. Then it's a matter of $ bzr branch svn://example.com/trunk/subdir $ bzr push sftp://just.sftp.on.the.host/without/any/daemons (findling) $ bzr push svn://just.push.to/svn/without/troubles/and/rebases (pushing/pulling from svn) > At the moment I have > two directories - one is sword-tools under svn where I check out from > CrossWire and commit from too and another is a git based one. Whenever I > think i have something worth pushing to CrossWire, I copy from one to > the other and do a svn commit. I am sure this is not the most clever way... > git-svn automates this, but it's pretty much what it does. Bzr is a bit smarter when talking to svn and it remembers what went were instead of doing blind rebases like git. If you google up git-svn guides from KDE, GCC, Webkit you will get more hang of it. They have everything covered. > Thanks > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From Ristioja at gmail.com Thu Sep 16 10:31:58 2010 From: Ristioja at gmail.com (Jaak Ristioja) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 20:31:58 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] Error reading ulBuffNum Message-ID: <4C92548E.4060900@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi! Since the http://www.crosswire.org/bugs is down again, I'm posting here. What bothers me, is that Sword outputs thousands of "Error reading ulBuffNum" messages to standard output. These messages hinder me from properly reading BibleTime debugging output from Qt Creator, because sword outputs 15922 of them when I start BibleTime. I guess there's probably some workaround by uninstalling some zverse modules, but still... Given the type of library Sword is, I think it should not use stdout or stderr to report errors. Instead, errors should be returned (or thrown) to the code that called Sword. Please fix. 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I can mail you an almost working module (work in progress), if needed. Mattias ?hel kenal p?eval, N, 2010-09-16 kell 20:31, kirjutas Jaak Ristioja: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi! > > Since the http://www.crosswire.org/bugs is down again, I'm posting here. > > What bothers me, is that Sword outputs thousands of "Error reading > ulBuffNum" messages to standard output. These messages hinder me from > properly reading BibleTime debugging output from Qt Creator, because > sword outputs 15922 of them when I start BibleTime. I guess there's > probably some workaround by uninstalling some zverse modules, but > still... Given the type of library Sword is, I think it should not use > stdout or stderr to report errors. Instead, errors should be returned > (or thrown) to the code that called Sword. > > Please fix. > > > Best regards, > Jaak Ristioja > > > PS: If you want me to file it as a bug, please notify me to do so only > after the bugtracker is back online. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) > > iQgcBAEBAgAGBQJMklSHAAoJEFqwhAoGc/hv3cs//A3wpNkWIaaoX+IEc09hmhtr > 3O120rN7VrqHr7sWoVZhp+0LdcKQ+QNR6shILvFTwACE32q8/FBtjAv/dArLWMGc > ClwGc8bMH9f21KXxjs9/kiM0kbf/XO5wMUAGD7bkVLh99FkdtFg8zmO4KjT8lKJY > KOcuT4QVRjs6lIx7pLJMPf9YxaDGUY5eFcJmA72jsb726XtGL96p1Rm7doJq9WSh > Ybic/rCy96BVcPh6uUfXN3bJn7EMvJ1TbwXrB8xHIqls2aHIkqIAtsLKJBgkHHpJ > El9lVyfJTE2MlQNPbQFsXLpncQ3gEq8KhXcxBfuBfQQo/nBfc5kMZNANeX136CYe > qStXr1XI/ZKgLNbPJXlS4Oh4aQqHBb03WFReaOVRALfIgB2oTeIrRPB1gR4NGe9a > BnPQYVM5OfjY9azNox67w7d2c8f+2TLKIQJmYqYvJaHa8TcV8IeuvWYbA+yluhWc > J3yCXGqf/GcHqzEwLBsKLdKGCfxNA/lqDlPTke+PB5Y6GCijYjnCVzq7rKzwv7j9 > Cj6x0IeUoLyI/H0cuEpP+HtHDl5cmAKlSmy43tL+rK2Y29v/JOiqZemsSvCm+DdB > UBa90UtdxfCCSxeIDNlnyirqiTmzAfBgBbLMgtyjJ6rl1HiMrDq+iBYXG/x1CB28 > xN9eQu9nkR1yIYxqzR0HmUbYiJM2bS8Kojq2apdCRR3A2ycWxK1Zgi2yrsSuY9I7 > JPh8CDWUjsH2jfC+RBUP/zr5ne3+SnD1QUNevH9pWI1h7o9Z/m6eiDg5Vg30DQFW > lhGzLI8ofNEIBuLgEbq5Ra17v8QGwl4alTEqjOLw5/H6ya1tYD6GbEErMiQpS4ZI > 4MeJ5Lst6CS9WqnPPhgXFI/cDeVCY9M8XlknJFi8e8NS3/VxO29yULcKTNqrwB0Y > 3cYCntJrc5cAAnfvtEjmSZ+2zXfJrNmscdl+7h0Q3UMwmUxF1dlvWnPZu3t8YGVV > vTtl+eAUZh2UonsR1IWCEuL/b/vJcG+KYbtR6bH4cQHK5WVUdA+qVF0mYcYBFfav > jmOh/mdsxl7dknW6y9ElwkPmdnwEQhXoDipV9Olftk9qxlg9X12IJ4N9JnLZzKKX > SZm4JKobLvLySYVpbz2b4Ad8pPJDJ8YAjLqyVW907n/M3wPgKfqxHAh+g0MgwA9H > uXAn6/XYxmP9gsB0YE16a4r3a1zV3E/zniSFJ5X8w916aQtoRdevcQocUNUu1El7 > n+bpr9W9mnqvGvLBXVi8Cx8HweP239DAc6wl70ALUunFhAzZ6cFWEFyFb8CBBmdG > jWu6aP12KusLZAhSCBDdwQ+tFhqWvDz6aR07LxLpSEKUzWL14gERGaSWVAEY+VbN > UgaaurhZAj6yh30fban1Nyj8LwSdFdTF4lvE3/hhoJJDZu/IV36yL51zUWy55N4j > Nrvg4qFgSz7RC+Pz6FTUa6OGP3s+uS2+PT7TKMQdBd8JJwjdr90OJQehEWhh9VKq > fROwzCYD6FzFSFhqPzL2S5HHCqJJobQffUrIa5+sp+wQYqr0D4cn8fa8/hiXzyn1 > sbvqbPBHqPTdVfZHyKR2YoBWAiOXEGihee3pUianTp7DzZ7ft8charjl2o7losTz > y0AV+eL936IewQmYG1XH5ddqNsWjxA/FMeL7gv0mWbYJKrjFxlwEhCb/6oF6SF+K > YwHUVuEEDgpQ+rN4ELYCrlXfokjFLSwsmQpHMPVDGPoOTlE5Dj6xjUeeQNW5P8Fo > 7zp7l5vGnRE2stFbuuSPrOsI3AYJ7dWphw04IXZmvvrHp7F3eYexlfOobSuv3gBy > ZQVfrqO9s5XqD9jNHEPVzZ3El3wjBDDPyYVFbvsH2GaEJK1nW0oSIvK9j36W1q+i > LmC1BsNRDm8cU0fEjczHY9AOL+0eV450Z1bMTZadY3YL5zulW5ptgWm4i+JGWUWz > +3qvWCz8Byqnt2EnLyohmpNceCSZk4U5M5OfGJWfdTpYvti1TRPfl4LjmND6zGhO > uNa7dVUqD6c9jETxsYMvaz4LzHR32QFEviwpOP22EC/luW31rtrUWKN8AoWJ8C6O > gGxjvYssEULIkrztJGAlgHcK0rsbxHsXILe4LENI4bANuuTzVD50En2ePaCxJonl > xPxFdvY63jlvrT5mT15TtcDReTqHEU8lZm26uAlTud0vPQMxHZombf5nRoVfo3Jr > DaLwlkkAeyTNYF1j3xzxd9hY9ePIUH/Y2GD4hJfzW6nOeueD73mP9Byfboz9I6+0 > MAk/Y/5bXBlpz6hs1L9GzkSQFBXkDL4a0FDR2e4XrXdPQ9v5AUfyDe5dL5G9Mw3L > zj6yZk+v3IRuMyRMsXj0724iOjEOp88GzIsXdXerGXYRGJA7b/fd+iRUN72QEjR6 > 0hgNn8+nmYgqqLSnDoUB6RPQwOvakZz2nxJKB6hMZNfjy/IbrvZPochcqOjrMFyT > 3oXi9z+mAG5vl0gXR9suDM6Vy8JF0gHMCvc6wRkChycE0/I59nwjVJ/SgXXCDkp+ > QkQl8Tr0COnXCcyPxk3gWm7Ty/A2odrUyKjHVStntsDZUslhM+hup/n6Q1IOjv1f > mCkvzK0pVaogPp+bPWh9Byy7i8IJ9aXSV2D+pOLt3hKB77XSN+AR9uMeEgVJldzi > QSW8RcB5f6TocYDlR1ley2BoUns45p2Stn45jDhA8Lc6yszIPyYAcuk0hWvYBYxM > xl29RD/ziGQTKzcydUmN > =/TEP > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 07:05:35 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:05:35 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations Message-ID: Hi all, We have received a request that all books have 2 letter abbreviations, like Luke does (Lk). Full text below: "Sometimes I do a lot of searches, and it would also be faster if the abbreviations for books were reduced to 2 consonants, like rv for Revelation or rm for Romans, rather than rom. Most are only two, like like for Luke, but for some reason others are not." I can't think off hand of any problems with this other than the increased potential for collisions and multiple abbreviations being used for the same book name. What do others think. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.hellings at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 07:22:08 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:22:08 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Book abbreviations are part of the translations of SWORD, are they not? If they are, it should be relatively easy to allow users to edit and add them to their heart's content by providing a programmatic method to allow them to edit the localization files. That would allow the user to set their own two or even one character abbreviations if they wanted. Of course, I could be wildly mistaken in that. --Greg On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote: > Hi all, > > We have received a request that all books have 2 letter abbreviations, like > Luke does (Lk).? Full text below: > > "Sometimes I do a lot of searches, and it would also be faster if the > abbreviations for books were reduced to 2 consonants, like rv for Revelation > or rm for Romans, rather than rom. Most are only two, like like for Luke, > but for some reason others are not." > > I can't think off hand of any problems with this other than the increased > potential for collisions and multiple abbreviations being used for the same > book name.? What do others think.? Is this a good idea or a bad idea? > > Jon > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 07:27:36 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:27:36 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They are plain text files, so it is certainly possible to edit them. However, anything that is editable will probably not be edited by very many people, so I think it is important to get the defaults "right". The questions are more "Does anyone think that these kind of two character abbreviations make sense to be included by default?" and "Can anyone see any major problems with using these kind of two character abbreviations?" BTW, the standard English locale seems to already have some one letter abbreviations, such as "N" for "Numbers" and "P" for "Psalms". Jon On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > Book abbreviations are part of the translations of SWORD, are they > not? If they are, it should be relatively easy to allow users to edit > and add them to their heart's content by providing a programmatic > method to allow them to edit the localization files. That would allow > the user to set their own two or even one character abbreviations if > they wanted. > > Of course, I could be wildly mistaken in that. > > --Greg > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Jonathan Morgan > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > We have received a request that all books have 2 letter abbreviations, > like > > Luke does (Lk). Full text below: > > > > "Sometimes I do a lot of searches, and it would also be faster if the > > abbreviations for books were reduced to 2 consonants, like rv for > Revelation > > or rm for Romans, rather than rom. Most are only two, like like for Luke, > > but for some reason others are not." > > > > I can't think off hand of any problems with this other than the increased > > potential for collisions and multiple abbreviations being used for the > same > > book name. What do others think. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? > > > > Jon > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.hellings at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 07:40:45 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:40:45 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was suggesting that in your application's settings you could provide a "customize book abbreviations" mechanism to the user, so they wouldn't have to locate the files and manually edit them. I don't see a problem with the 2 letter ones, as long as they are clearly obvious as to what they are. Philippians and Philemon, for example, I don't think ought to be given default 2 letter abbreviations. While "Ph" usually means Philippians and "Phil" means Philemon, usually don't remember Philippian's existence when I'm quickly abbreviating Philemon as "Ph". Thus, if you allow the user to edit the abbreviations through the application, then they can select "P" to mean Philemon if they use that book frequently or "N" to be Nehemiah. It could also solve this user's problem directly by allowing him to provide his own set of 2-character abbreviations. --Greg On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote: > They are plain text files, so it is certainly possible to edit them. > However, anything that is editable will probably not be edited by very many > people, so I think it is important to get the defaults "right".? The > questions are more "Does anyone think that these kind of two character > abbreviations make sense to be included by default?" and "Can anyone see any > major problems with using these kind of two character abbreviations?" > > BTW, the standard English locale seems to already have some one letter > abbreviations, such as "N" for "Numbers" and "P" for "Psalms". > > Jon > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Greg Hellings > wrote: >> >> Book abbreviations are part of the translations of SWORD, are they >> not? ?If they are, it should be relatively easy to allow users to edit >> and add them to their heart's content by providing a programmatic >> method to allow them to edit the localization files. ?That would allow >> the user to set their own two or even one character abbreviations if >> they wanted. >> >> Of course, I could be wildly mistaken in that. >> >> --Greg >> >> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Jonathan Morgan >> wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > We have received a request that all books have 2 letter abbreviations, >> > like >> > Luke does (Lk).? Full text below: >> > >> > "Sometimes I do a lot of searches, and it would also be faster if the >> > abbreviations for books were reduced to 2 consonants, like rv for >> > Revelation >> > or rm for Romans, rather than rom. Most are only two, like like for >> > Luke, >> > but for some reason others are not." >> > >> > I can't think off hand of any problems with this other than the >> > increased >> > potential for collisions and multiple abbreviations being used for the >> > same >> > book name.? What do others think.? Is this a good idea or a bad idea? >> > >> > Jon >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From chrislit at crosswire.org Sun Sep 19 07:45:05 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 07:45:05 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C9621F1.7000305@crosswire.org> On 9/19/2010 7:27 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote: > They are plain text files, so it is certainly possible to edit them.? > However, anything that is editable will probably not be edited by very > many people, so I think it is important to get the defaults "right".? > The questions are more "Does anyone think that these kind of two > character abbreviations make sense to be included by default?" No > and "Can > anyone see any major problems with using these kind of two character > abbreviations?" There would certainly be more collisions, and as far as I can see, there's no benefit. In order to cram everything into 2 characters, you have to start making trade-offs and teaching people what particular abbreviations mean, because there's no way on earth that they will correctly guess what you mean in every case. How do you collapse 1/2 Corinthians/Chronicles into 2 characters? 1/2 Thessalonians/Timothy? Or, going the other direction, to which book do "Jo", "Ju", "Ha", "Ze", or "Ma" refer? Sword will map those to books if you supply them (and will get it right approximately 50% of the time), but Sword shouldn't be presenting those types of abbreviations to users. If a particular user needs particular abbreviations, tell him where to find the locale .conf. > BTW, the standard English locale seems to already have some one letter > abbreviations, such as "N" for "Numbers" and "P" for "Psalms". Don't confuse interpretation with generation. Sword will interpret "n" as Numbers and "p" as Psalms, but it would never generate those for presentation to a user. If we didn't have single-letter values in that array, doing a lookup on "n" would return the previous book in the array, which is Matthew. --Chris From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 07:55:18 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:55:18 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: <4C9621F1.7000305@crosswire.org> References: <4C9621F1.7000305@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Chris Little wrote: > > > On 9/19/2010 7:27 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote: > >> They are plain text files, so it is certainly possible to edit them.? >> However, anything that is editable will probably not be edited by very >> many people, so I think it is important to get the defaults "right".? >> The questions are more "Does anyone think that these kind of two >> character abbreviations make sense to be included by default?" >> > > No > > and "Can >> anyone see any major problems with using these kind of two character >> abbreviations?" >> > > There would certainly be more collisions, and as far as I can see, there's > no benefit. In order to cram everything into 2 characters, you have to start > making trade-offs and teaching people what particular abbreviations mean, > because there's no way on earth that they will correctly guess what you mean > in every case. > > How do you collapse 1/2 Corinthians/Chronicles into 2 characters? 1/2 > Thessalonians/Timothy? > > Or, going the other direction, to which book do "Jo", "Ju", "Ha", "Ze", or > "Ma" refer? Sword will map those to books if you supply them (and will get > it right approximately 50% of the time), but Sword shouldn't be presenting > those types of abbreviations to users. > > If a particular user needs particular abbreviations, tell him where to find > the locale .conf. > > BTW, the standard English locale seems to already have some one letter >> abbreviations, such as "N" for "Numbers" and "P" for "Psalms". >> > > Don't confuse interpretation with generation. Sword will interpret "n" as > Numbers and "p" as Psalms, but it would never generate those for > presentation to a user. If we didn't have single-letter values in that > array, doing a lookup on "n" would return the previous book in the array, > which is Matthew. > I was talking about interpretation, not presentation (and so I think was the user, given they were talking about minimising the amount they have to type). I agree that the short name presentation is fine as it is. Do you know of any harm caused by adding additional interpretations? Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Sun Sep 19 08:03:54 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 01:03:54 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Greg, While I could implement such a system, I struggle to see that it's high enough priority to bother. As a generalisation I'm not very keen on working on configurability and special options, because I strongly suspect that most people don't use them (I certainly don't if I can avoid it), and I know of problems which affect every user rather than a small sub-set and so are probably more important. [which is not to ignore the problem and its solution, just to minimise it :) ]. Jon On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > I was suggesting that in your application's settings you could provide > a "customize book abbreviations" mechanism to the user, so they > wouldn't have to locate the files and manually edit them. > > I don't see a problem with the 2 letter ones, as long as they are > clearly obvious as to what they are. Philippians and Philemon, for > example, I don't think ought to be given default 2 letter > abbreviations. While "Ph" usually means Philippians and "Phil" means > Philemon, usually don't remember Philippian's existence when I'm > quickly abbreviating Philemon as "Ph". > > Thus, if you allow the user to edit the abbreviations through the > application, then they can select "P" to mean Philemon if they use > that book frequently or "N" to be Nehemiah. It could also solve this > user's problem directly by allowing him to provide his own set of > 2-character abbreviations. > > --Greg > > On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Jonathan Morgan > wrote: > > They are plain text files, so it is certainly possible to edit them. > > However, anything that is editable will probably not be edited by very > many > > people, so I think it is important to get the defaults "right". The > > questions are more "Does anyone think that these kind of two character > > abbreviations make sense to be included by default?" and "Can anyone see > any > > major problems with using these kind of two character abbreviations?" > > > > BTW, the standard English locale seems to already have some one letter > > abbreviations, such as "N" for "Numbers" and "P" for "Psalms". > > > > Jon > > > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Greg Hellings > > > wrote: > >> > >> Book abbreviations are part of the translations of SWORD, are they > >> not? If they are, it should be relatively easy to allow users to edit > >> and add them to their heart's content by providing a programmatic > >> method to allow them to edit the localization files. That would allow > >> the user to set their own two or even one character abbreviations if > >> they wanted. > >> > >> Of course, I could be wildly mistaken in that. > >> > >> --Greg > >> > >> On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Jonathan Morgan > >> wrote: > >> > Hi all, > >> > > >> > We have received a request that all books have 2 letter abbreviations, > >> > like > >> > Luke does (Lk). Full text below: > >> > > >> > "Sometimes I do a lot of searches, and it would also be faster if the > >> > abbreviations for books were reduced to 2 consonants, like rv for > >> > Revelation > >> > or rm for Romans, rather than rom. Most are only two, like like for > >> > Luke, > >> > but for some reason others are not." > >> > > >> > I can't think off hand of any problems with this other than the > >> > increased > >> > potential for collisions and multiple abbreviations being used for the > >> > same > >> > book name. What do others think. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? > >> > > >> > Jon > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > >> > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > >> > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bdumont at ameritech.net Sun Sep 19 09:09:34 2010 From: bdumont at ameritech.net (Brian J. Dumont) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:09:34 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android App "... and God Said" Message-ID: <4C9635BE.4020907@ameritech.net> As a new owner of an Android phone (HTC Evo), I recently downloaded "and God Said" (0.0.6). First of all, thanks to Martin for all the work and thanks to everyone else showing interest. Until now, I've casually read much of (but not all of) the discussion. Now that I've used it, I thought I'd offer some suggestions and comments: * I really like most of what is there. The notes are done in a creative way that makes maximal use of a limited screen. The text presentation is clean, and headings are nicely marked. I love the "jump chapter" function of a side-swipe. * Echoing what some others have said, I think the "navigate-to-verse" methodology might need some work. Back something like 7-8 years ago, I was an avid user of the PalmBible+ app. I could navigate to a verse much faster than even an experienced reader could navigate in a paper Bible. The interface was quite similar to what you can see now in Olive Tree's Bible Reader. You picked from a list of abbreviated book names on a single page. Then you picked from a chapter number, also all options were on a single page. It's really the scrolling that slows things down so much. * I'd love to see support for other repositories and for GenBooks although I realize that involves building a second navigation interface. Although I'm not a programmer, I would be quite willing to offer suggestions about a clean navigation interface for genbooks. Once again, thanks very much, and great work. In Christ, Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Sun Sep 19 13:03:00 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:03:00 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: <4C9621F1.7000305@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4C966C74.3010509@crosswire.org> On 9/19/2010 7:55 AM, Jonathan Morgan wrote: > I was talking about interpretation, not presentation (and so I think was > the user, given they were talking about minimising the amount they have > to type). I agree that the short name presentation is fine as it is. > Do you know of any harm caused by adding additional interpretations? Ah, sorry for my misunderstanding. In that case, adding new abbreviations isn't particularly bad. It will increase the average processing time for every book name lookup, but not drastically. (Our book lookup search uses a binary search algorithm, so it's O(log n). Adding more abbreviations increases n.) If there are actually any reasonable 2-letter abbreviations that aren't already covered by the lookup algorithm, we should add them. But it should be confirmed that they won't already point to the expected book value. I have a feeling there's already a bit of unnecessary data in the book abbreviations array. (E.g., if we had both "PS" and "PSA" indicating Psalms, the latter probably wouldn't be necessary in the array, since the binary search picks "PS" in the absence of "PSA" if you try to look up "PSA", if my recollection is correct.) So... more abbreviations wouldn't be bad, but let's be certain that they are necessary. --Chris From karl at kleinpaste.org Mon Sep 20 07:38:37 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:38:37 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] ACDCref, a modified ACDC module: hot-linking verse references Message-ID: In the Xiphos repo, I've just placed a new module ACDCref, which is an update to the ACDC module present in CrossWire Beta repo. This module makes just one change: It wraps all verse references in attributes, rendering them clickable. That's all. It's not perfect, but it's a good step forward. It's another of my sed-driven creations, syntactically discovering BCVs and wrapping them. We're all about Bible software; I think having modules that always link Bible references is, by now and in our world, a base-level necessity. In general, I find anything that adds to or generally improves navigability within display to be something we ought to aim for. And in this case, it's easy, nearly a freebie. I can't see any reason why we would ever decline to link BCVs. Consider this module's change to be a proof-of-concept demo. It really ought to be re-done in the source document. There are 62 changed references. On a related note, Brian Dumont and I have been scratching our heads, wondering why TEI uses instead of . This seems a completely pointless terminology difference between TEI and OSIS. I did a similar -wrapping operation on ChurchHandy, but it uses (long outdated) Roman numeral chapter numbers, e.g. and apparently verse parsing doesn't grasp those there, even though it does understand them in other contexts. From refdoc at gmx.net Mon Sep 20 08:08:29 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 17:08:29 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] ACDCref, a modified ACDC module: hot-linking verse references In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100920150829.225220@gmx.net> > Von: Karl Kleinpaste > We're all about Bible software; I think having modules that always link > Bible references is, by now and in our world, a base-level necessity. I think the same would apply to practically all the GenBook modules and commentary modules. I have found in CPAN a set of Perl modules which appear quite capable of finding references in large volumes of text - and can be configured to do the same on non English text. I have not yet tried them out, but will so shortly. Peter -- Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/demail From chrislit at crosswire.org Mon Sep 20 09:34:37 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:34:37 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] ACDCref, a modified ACDC module: hot-linking verse references In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C978D1D.9010604@crosswire.org> On 9/20/2010 7:38 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > In the Xiphos repo, I've just placed a new module ACDCref, which is an > update to the ACDC module present in CrossWire Beta repo. > > This module makes just one change: It wraps all verse references in > attributes, rendering them clickable. That's all. It's not > perfect, but it's a good step forward. It's another of my sed-driven > creations, syntactically discovering BCVs and wrapping them. > > We're all about Bible software; I think having modules that always link > Bible references is, by now and in our world, a base-level necessity. > In general, I find anything that adds to or generally improves > navigability within display to be something we ought to aim for. And in > this case, it's easy, nearly a freebie. I can't see any reason why we > would ever decline to link BCVs. > > Consider this module's change to be a proof-of-concept demo. It really > ought to be re-done in the source document. There are 62 changed > references. This was a planned feature of the current modules (ACDC && ChurchHandy), but I got too busy with real life, so I decided to release as is and update later. As you'll notice, tagging of cross-references and Bible references in them is not trivial and cannot be handled entirely via scripting. > On a related note, Brian Dumont and I have been scratching our heads, > wondering why TEI uses instead of. This seems a > completely pointless terminology difference between TEI and OSIS. I don't understand the issue. TEI is not OSIS, and though the latter is heavily influenced by the former, there are differences, even where two elements serve similar functions. --Chris From chrislit at crosswire.org Mon Sep 20 09:48:15 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:48:15 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] ACDCref, a modified ACDC module: hot-linking verse references In-Reply-To: <20100920150829.225220@gmx.net> References: <20100920150829.225220@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C97904F.50600@crosswire.org> On 9/20/2010 8:08 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> Von: Karl Kleinpaste > > >> We're all about Bible software; I think having modules that always link >> Bible references is, by now and in our world, a base-level necessity. > > I think the same would apply to practically all the GenBook modules and commentary modules. > > I have found in CPAN a set of Perl modules which appear quite capable of finding references in large volumes of text - and can be configured to do the same on non English text. I have not yet tried them out, but will so shortly. I have a faint recollection of trying that module and having no success, sadly. Having written a regexp to churn through the Catholic Encyclopedia, looking for references and tagging them as such (an approx. 20 line regexp!), I can say that it is an exceptionally difficult task to guess at all of the ways that references will be marked, even within a relatively homogeneous text. I don't think it's possible to generalize that kind of tagger to work with any text in a language. I've worked with an in-house tool developed by another Bible software developer that was supposed to detect and interpret all references (and it only cared about English). It worked so unreliably that it had to be modified to let me tag refs myself so that it only needed to do the interpretation part. --Chris From chrislit at crosswire.org Mon Sep 20 10:23:12 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:23:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Versification In-Reply-To: References: <4C8BD3F6.20607@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C979880.9030703@crosswire.org> The Jerusalem Bible should be fairly straightforward, from your description. We just need to pick a versification and use it, preferrably the one that looks like their favored versification. All v11ns should be encoded in the OSIS doc, but the JB v11n should precede others. If "2:7, 1:3" indicates the verse number in JB and NRSV, respectively, it would be encoded as osisID="Bible.JB:Esth.2.7 Bible.NRSV:Esth.1.3". The lettered subverses are a little simpler: 1:2b is just osisID="Bible.JB:Esth.1.2!b". For Sword's importer, until some day in the distant future when we support multiple versifications within a single document, we just want to read the JB v11n references, and ignore the NRSV ones. Handling of subverses should already be supported by osis2mod. Lettered chapter numbers are a bit of a different challenge. They aren't supported by the SWText driver. They are supported by SWGenBook, but that's not well supported for Bibles yet. Additionally, there's the problem of chapters being interrupted by other chapters and then resumed (sometimes much later) in the book. I don't believe there is currently any easy solution to that problem. My recollection of constructing a GenBook is a bit hazy, but I believe that if you try to write the keys: 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, A:1, A:2, A:3, 1:4, 1:5 You'll end up with 1:4 and 1:5 as children of the first chapter 1, not a second chapter 1 that follows chapter A. In other words: Chapter 1 Verse 1 Verse 2 Verse 3 Verse 4 Verse 5 Chapter A Verse 1 Verse 2 Verse 3 not the desired: Chapter 1 Verse 1 Verse 2 Verse 3 Chapter A Verse 1 Verse 2 Verse 3 Chapter 1 Verse 4 Verse 5 I don't think we can solve this problem, because my recollection is that two child nodes of a single parent cannot have the same name in our implementation. All that said, in every case of this versification that I've seen, the lettered "chapters" aren't in fact chapters. They are termed "additions". So Chapter 11 consists of the last verse of Addition F (Esth.11.1, the last verse of Greek Esther) and the first part of addition A (Esth.11.2-Esth.11.12). It's hard to explain the NRSV v11n of Greek Esther, but I would recommend grabbing one of the ecumenical NRSVAs, like the New Oxford Annotated Study Bible, if you want to see the worst-case scenario of versification. --Chris On 9/11/2010 12:15 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > Peter, > > I have brought this up before, relating it to the Jerusalem Bible, > which does something similar. Instead of using A, B, C, etc, they > simply will number a verse as "2:7, 1:3" to reflect both popular types > of versification or they will go "1:1, 1:2, 1:2a, 1:2b, 1:2c, 1:3, > 1:4" to indicate additional material present in Greek Esther or > Daniel. > > No one has given me a solid answer as to how that would be encoded. I > don't even know if the engine has support for chapter "numbers" that > are represented as letters. It would be easiest to use a General Book > driver which allows arbitrary key values, if the GenBook-VerseKey > bridge was completed. I don't know that it is, as I haven't heard > anything about it for some time. > > --Greg > > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> How do you deal with a versification which is using two separate chapter >> counters in a book which aun in an interspersed way? >> >> 1, 2, 3, ... >> >> and >> >> A, B, C, .. >> >> This is to deal with Greek and Hebrew Esther and Daniel. >> >> To make it more complicated, some "numbered" chapters start and finish >> with a "lettered" chapter interspersed. >> >> 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, A:1, A:2, A:3, 1:4, 1:5... You get my drift. >> >> I would rather have it right, but I would rather have it working too. >> And that bugs me. >> >> This is obviously the Portuguese Bible. >> >> Peter >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From manfred.bergmann at me.com Tue Sep 21 00:53:52 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:53:52 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Problem with Alkitab on Mac Message-ID: Hi. I just updated Alkitab from version 2.1.x to 2.5 and now it doesn't start anymore. The splash screen stays and the progress keeps saying "Done loading modules" but nothing else happens. Version 2.1.x was working fine before the update. I can send a crash log if that helps. Manfred From refdoc at gmx.net Tue Sep 21 04:50:11 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 13:50:11 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] SVG module (an idea) Message-ID: <20100921115011.228850@gmx.net> Hi guys, I just saw this here in Wikimedia commons: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Ampel.svg It is an svg file which has java script integrated. It made me think that this could be a very interesting way for a new map module (among other things) The idea goes like this: A Bible module is coded for geographic data (there is somewhere such a data base already freely available - just can not remember the link at the moment) The geographic data in turn results in the right place being lit up in a satellite image or map or whatnot. Other modules could be maps with 9active) overlays etc. This is probably endless... Peter -- GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome From jonmmorgan at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 06:33:20 2010 From: jonmmorgan at gmail.com (Jonathan Morgan) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 23:33:20 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] SVG module (an idea) In-Reply-To: <20100921115011.228850@gmx.net> References: <20100921115011.228850@gmx.net> Message-ID: http://www.openbible.info/geo/ has geographical data. http://www.biblemap.org/ has a Biblical place app built on top of Google Maps. I'm not sure of how much of what you want this does, but I think Xiphos links to it when you choose to look up a map for a place. Jon On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Hi guys, > > I just saw this here in Wikimedia commons: > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Ampel.svg > > It is an svg file which has java script integrated. > > It made me think that this could be a very interesting way for a new map > module (among other things) > > The idea goes like this: > > A Bible module is coded for geographic data (there is somewhere such a data > base already freely available - just can not remember the link at the > moment) > > The geographic data in turn results in the right place being lit up in a > satellite image or map or whatnot. > > Other modules could be maps with 9active) overlays etc. > > This is probably endless... > > Peter > -- > GRATIS: Spider-Man 1-3 sowie 300 weitere Videos! > Jetzt freischalten! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Tue Sep 21 09:59:28 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 17:59:28 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] SVG module (an idea) In-Reply-To: References: <20100921115011.228850@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4C98E470.2010200@gmx.net> On 21/09/10 14:33, Jonathan Morgan wrote: > http://www.openbible.info/geo/ has geographical data. > > http://www.biblemap.org/ has a Biblical place app built on top of Google > Maps. I'm not sure of how much of what you want this does, but I think > Xiphos links to it when you choose to look up a map for a place. This, but offline and accessible from all kinds of modules would be what i am looking for. Peter From manolis.mariakakis at emate.eu Tue Sep 21 13:23:55 2010 From: manolis.mariakakis at emate.eu (Mariakakis, Manolis) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 23:23:55 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] FREE mobile protection - FULL body mobile scratch proof Message-ID: FREE mobile protection - FULL body mobile scratch proof. Yes it's true. Click on the photo. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/octet-stream Size: 27011 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonny.kohar at gmail.com Wed Sep 22 01:43:56 2010 From: tonny.kohar at gmail.com (Tonny Kohar) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 15:43:56 +0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Problem with Alkitab on Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: > Hi. > > I just updated Alkitab from version 2.1.x to 2.5 and now it doesn't start anymore. > The splash screen stays and the progress keeps saying "Done loading modules" but nothing else happens. > Version 2.1.x was working fine before the update. > > I can send a crash log if that helps. > Make sure you have Java 6 because Alkitab 2.5 now requires Java 6. And yes crash log would be very nice. Thank you Cheers Tonny Kohar -- Alkitab BIble Study http://www.kiyut.com From dmsmith at crosswire.org Wed Sep 22 08:36:18 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 08:36:18 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Whoo Hoo! Message-ID: Today marked the 1,000,000 commit at Apache! It was in a Lucene project, too! In Him, DM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linuxdavee at frontiernet.net Tue Sep 14 11:37:03 2010 From: linuxdavee at frontiernet.net (David Blue) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:37:03 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Linked in audio files In-Reply-To: References: <20100824142726.57840@gmx.net> <20100825105753.282880@gmx.net> Message-ID: <201009141437.04095.linuxdavee@frontiernet.net> On Wednesday, August 25, 2010 07:29:28 am Nic Carter wrote: > I ask that we don't favour (or even use) ogg vorbis (FYI, "ogg" is a > container format, "vorbis" is the audio format codec). I'm going to > completely ignore any arguments that could be made for or against the idea > that it is patent free or infringes on patents, and I'll instead look to > the fact that Apple and others have decided that it's iffy and not worth > the risk & hence there is no native built-in decoder available in iOS > (iPhone/iPad/iPod touch) for it. > Hence, for it to work nicely in PocketSword without me having to include my > own sound decoder, I'd prefer mp3 or aac. I'm sorry but the patent arguments are important to at least 3 front ends if they run on linux, and in order to avoid statically linking in a decoder to the engine you have to use a format supported on those platforms, and out of the box installs of most linux doesn't have mp3 and possibly aac. Now granted these things are easy to come by, and most users will have them installed, but not all. And patents aside, the ogg formats, vorbis, flac, speex, celt, etc. are all open source/open format projects and as sword is an open source project as well it only makes sense, that we would support these formats as well. My support would go with speex or celt as they are built for speech and compress for that well. From kcarnold at alum.mit.edu Sun Sep 19 10:58:01 2010 From: kcarnold at alum.mit.edu (Kenneth Arnold) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:58:01 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Shorter book name abbreviations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The ESV publishers did all the hard work already to figure out what books people meant when they used what abbreviations. They can even distinguish word searches from book references. Their code and data are at http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/share/about/#bookabbreviations -Ken On Sep 19, 2010 11:04 AM, "Jonathan Morgan" wrote: Hi Greg, While I could implement such a system, I struggle to see that it's high enough priority to bother. As a generalisation I'm not very keen on working on configurability and special options, because I strongly suspect that most people don't use them (I certainly don't if I can avoid it), and I know of problems which affect every user rather than a small sub-set and so are probably more important. [which is not to ignore the problem and its solution, just to minimise it :) ]. Jon On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > > I was suggest... _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fatalglory at gmail.com Tue Sep 21 15:52:18 2010 From: fatalglory at gmail.com (Nick Watts) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 08:52:18 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] HiFi Bible - Web based study tool derived from SWORD Message-ID: <4C993722.1010908@gmail.com> Announcing - the first Beta release of HiFi Bible. A web-based bible study and commentary sharing tool derived from the SWORD project. The first beta release of HiFi Bible is now available for testing on the World-Wide-Web, on my personal website, http://resplect.com/hifibible Full documentation (for administrators and developers), downloads and source code will be released in the not-too-distant future (when I get time to finish publishing it all), but for now, the actual running software is at least available to get a look at. About HiFi Bible *************** HiFi Bible started life as a project called WebSWORD. I was in the final year of my computer science degree and needed a software-engineering project to complete as part of my coursework. The university's Anglican chaplaincy (UNEchurch a.k.a St. Mark's) agreed to be my client and commissioned my proposed project around July-August 2009. I was to create a tool for tertiary level study of the bible, being sure to implement advanced features, that could be put on the web and used by students involved in their bible study sessions. I proposed to implement this tool by writing several small command-line applications using the SWORD library. I would then develop the web application in PHP, which would call these command-line applications, receive their standard output and do some post-processing before displaying to the user. This system was finished in time, I documented it and submitted it to my lecturer and received my high-distinction for the unit, as well as my bachelor's degree at the end of the year. However, there was a problem. Only mid-way through the development process did I discover that while this system of calling command line applications from PHP worked fine on my development system, it would not install and run properly on shared web-hosting environments. In effect, any church or organisation that wanted to use such a tool would have to purchase more expensive web-hosting plans, like a VPS. The resources associated with such plans are huge overkill for a small web-application like WebSWORD, and so this was somewhat infeasible and hard to justify financially. It didn't stop me submitting the project for academic credit, but in practice it would be a show stopper. I banged my head against the wall a few times over all the work that seemed to be going to waste. I began wondering if anyone else had worked on a SWORD based web-application and stumbled across SWORDWeb. This was a Java based application that was similar in concept to WebSWORD, but suffered from the same basic issue of not installing and working easily on shared hosting. I took a job as a ministry-trainee at the Anglican chaplaincy in 2010, and continued using WebSWORD on my home computer for all of my own bible-study preparation, it came out as an excellent tool. Gradually, more and more friends started noticing this software I was using over my shoulder and asking where this website was so they could give it a try. I became determined not to let this work on WebSWORD go to waste. And so I contrived a plan to begin developing again. I determined to create an export tool that would read the content of entire SWORD project modules and dump the content HTML out to SQL files that could be easily stored in a MySQL database. Then I would port the back-end functionality of WebSWORD to access content from the database rather than from command-line SWORD applications. By doing this, the software could be easily installed and configured on any standard XAMP stack and used on just about any low-end web hosting plan. After a few months of very busy weekends and lot of empty soft-drink cans, I was nearly finished the porting process. Given that SWORDWeb existed as a similar project, with a similar name, I decided that a name change was necessary for clarity. The emphasis of this software in my mind was to particularly allow easy study of the bible in the original languages, because I strongly believe that the bible is the inspired word of God, and needs to be preserved with the utmost faithfulness (fidelity) for future generations. Hence the name, HiFi Bible. The software is released under the GNU GPL version 3 and is distributes with a collection of public domain modules (since republishing of copyrighted modules raises a lot of issues, which I will leave with individual users to deal with, with the particular publishing bodies relevant to their own intentions), as well as the KJV2003 which Crosswire has granted a general public license for. Glory to God, -Nick Technical Appendix ****************** HiFi Bible uses an SQL database backend, the content for which is generated by scraping and dumping the content of SWORD modules. The modules I have put on the demonstration installation are all public domain (except the KJV2003, which is under a general public license "for any purpose"), so I see no reason why this should cause any particular issue. However, it may be that Crosswire has a problem with the creation of such conversion tools. If any Crosswire staff are reading this and would like to comment on such issues, please do so. The conversion tools are not published anywhere on the web at this time, because I do not want to create any hostility. The derived SwordSQL format is not in any way a replacement for the SWORD module format and represents a decrease in information content from the original SWORD modules. From todd at bible.org Fri Sep 24 12:19:12 2010 From: todd at bible.org (Todd Lingren) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 12:19:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Fwd: PocketSword: an iPhone Bible Study app In-Reply-To: References: <4B78C2D3.1000802@bible.org> <5c07b7e51002150852o71ff47fek7704f85275526c2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B7C10D8.6060203@crosswire.org> <161EE3FB-87D6-4AAF-922A-BF07B78849F5@mac.com> <4B7CBD6A.7080303@bible.org> Message-ID: Nic, I see that I missed this email last month. Here is where we offer the Sword Module unlock for the NET Bible: http://bible.org/article/net-bible-download#sword Can you update the install notice with this url? I've checked my PocketSword on iPod Touch and was able to install it using the cipher key we give out when we sell the above product. Thanks! ------ Todd Lingren Publishing Director todd at bible.org support: 214-580-1999 sales: 800-575-2425 fax: 972-767-3166 **** All of the sales from http://store.bible.org support the free trustworthy studies @ bible.org **** On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Nic Carter wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm replying to an email from 6 months ago, but I've been terribly behind > on email lately. :( > > But I was thinking about unlocking of modules and the like recently, and > stumbled upon this email. > > Background info is that PocketSword now supports multiple module > repositories and unlocking of modules. However, when you download the NET > Bible that is locked, I can't figure out how to tell the user where they > should go in order to buy an unlock key. Hence it may be a little confusing > in PocketSword for some users? Do we need to add a field in locked modules > that contains the URL the user should be directed to if they wish to > purchase an unlock code? > > > Thanks, ybic > nic... :) > > ps: disclaimer: PocketSword currently has a bug in it where users who > haven't upgraded to iOS 4 can't enter their unlock code. I'm going to work > on this today and the fix will be in PocketSword v1.3.2! > > > On 18/02/2010, at 3:21 PM, Nic Carter wrote: > > Hi David, > > Troy is 100% correct, and PocketSword does have the functionality to use > additional repositories, it's just that I haven't exposed that to the user > :) > > By the time PocketSword will support unlocking modules & the like, it will > also support additional repositories, so please don't seek to move your > modules simply for PocketSword's sake. > > You've given me a good goal for v1.3: making all this work :) > > sorry for any confusion, thanks for the reply! > > ybic > nic... :) > > (sent from my iPhone, hence this email is brief!) > > On 18/02/2010, at 15:09, "David Austin (bghp)" wrote: > > todd > I think we are willing to have our modules in the crosswire Module > Repositories but when i talked to troy he said that it wasnt necessary as > all developments can get them from our links... If this is not the case lets > consider puting them on cross wire also. > can you work this with nic and troy > david > > David Austin (Executive Director www.Bible.org ) > 214-580 1999 ext 152(v); skype daustin100 ; DAustin at Bible.org > ~Home of the NETBible and over 5500 free studies > ~All donations http://bible.org/donate and sales from http://store.bible.org support the production and distribution of free trustworthy studies from www.bible.org > ~ Check out our free Bible Study tool at http://www.netbible.org > ----- > > > > > Nic Carter wrote: > > Hi Todd, > > Thanks for your comments about PocketSword :) Just to let you know, footnotes (along with Strong's Numbers & cross references) aren't implemented in PocketSword yet. My current focus for v1.2 is for Strong's Numbers (very very very much my number 1 requested feature!) and Morphology to get implemented. It makes sense to include footnotes in this release, too, but I am concerned that the more I throw into this release, the longer it will take to get this out the door -- it's just meant to be a very quick release schedule for Strong's only... ;) > > I'll try to answer the questions Troy has posed: > > 1) PocketSword doesn't currently have the ability to "unlock" a module (the functionality is not exposed through the UI). There is a way around this, but no one has asked me any questions about this, so I have yet to write it up. This is on my list of things to do, but my lack of time has meant that it hasn't happened yet! > 1) a) From an end-user's point of view, the best way of "buying" a module would be through an in-app purchase. However, Apple would take 30% of the sale this way. Buying through your site, you get all the proceeds (minus whatever fees you have to pay!). > > 2) Currently PocketSword doesn't have the ability to download from Module Repositories other than the CrossWire and the CrossWire Beta ones. It can't even download from the CrossWire Experimental repository. This is something that needs to be addressed, but #1 needs to be fixed before this can be fixed. Currently there is a way to manually install modules (it's called Module Maintainer Mode, and you can find more information about it on the PocketSword web site and the PocketSword user forums). When #1 is addressed, I plan on addressing #2 & then I will fix the repository issue. :( > > 3) Easy from my end. I don't need to do anything! :D I would need to examine the process of buying a module, so I know what the user is expecting and how to best make this work for the user, but #1 and #2 needs to be addressed first. :( > > 4) --I don't think this is a question I can answer-- [but I agree that it is confusing] > > Thanks, and please feel free to email back with any questions on anything I have said. :) > > > Thanks, ybic > nic... :) > > ---- > Nic Carter > PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app http://crosswire.org/pocketsword > > On 18/02/2010, at 2:52 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > > > > Dear Todd, > > It's good to hear from you. I'm forwarding your email on to our developers' forum to make others aware of the issue. Nic Carter has taken the lead on the PocketSword effort, with the original work done by Ian Wagner. From your email, these are the questions I'd like us to answer. > > 1) PocketSword, being a SWORD frontend, already has the ability to decipher your encrypted modules for which Bible.org sells unlock codes. Does PocketSword expose the ability for the user to enter a decipher code? > > 2) Does PocketSword display the About and Unlock information, which should include a link to your site where the unlock code can be purchased and obtained? > > 3) Might it be possible to detect the UserAgent from the iPhone browser, such that if/when PocketSword does display the unlock information to the user and they click to go to your unlock webpage, that you can display a unique page tuned for iPhone users? > > 4) Should we be more explicit somewhere about which versions of which NET modules go together and the differences between them? Where is the best place for information? > > Responses should be sent Reply All, as Todd and David are not (to my knowledge) subscribed to our developers' forum. I'll push through any replies from them. > > > Troy > > > > > > > Todd Lingren wrote: > > > Hey Troy it was good meeting you at ETS. > Dave Austin sent me the link to the new Cross PocketSword app on the > iPhone/iPod touch (I'm using the latter). > First things first, > I like the interface and all the sword references built in for > download. It's well done. > Secondly, I see that the NET is in there twice, one "limited notes" > and one "text-free". I'm a little confused what the difference is. I > don't see the fn markers on either one. is there supposed to be a > footnote marker and footnotes? I found under commentaries the "net > free notes" resource. There probably needs to be some sort of > warning/notice when someone downloads the limited text or limited > notes, that they need to download the other item. > Regarding a premium, full notes version, is there planned to be an > in-app purchase feature so someone can purchase the full notes? Or, if > not, is there a way we could share/sell links to someone to offer it? > ------ > Todd Lingren > Publishing Director todd at bible.org > support: 214-580-1999 > sales: 800-575-2425 > fax: 972-767-3166 > **** > All of the sales from http://store.bible.org > support the free trustworthy studies @ bible.org > **** > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: David Austin (bghp) < daustin at bible.org> > Date: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:43 PM > Subject: PocketSword: an iPhone Bible Study app > To: Todd Lingren < todd at bible.org> > Cc: Brian Seagraves < bseagraves at bible.org>, Hampton Keathley< hampton at bible.org>, Mark Austin < MA2552 at att.com>, Joe Head< joehead at gmail.com> http://crosswire.org/pocketsword/PocketSword/PocketSword/PocketSword.html > todd can you test this and see if it gets both the free and premium netbible? > if not email troy griffitts < troy at crosswire.org> > da > -- > David Austin (Executive Director www.Bible.org ) > 214-580 1999 ext 152(v); skype daustin100 ; DAustin at Bible.org > ~Home of the NETBible and over 5500 free studies ~All donations http://bible.org/donate and sales from http://store.bible.org support > the production and distribution of free trustworthy studies from www.bible.org ~ Check out our free Bible Study tool at http://www.netbible.org ----- > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niccarter at mac.com Fri Sep 24 19:38:11 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:38:11 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Fwd: PocketSword: an iPhone Bible Study app In-Reply-To: References: <4B78C2D3.1000802@bible.org> <5c07b7e51002150852o71ff47fek7704f85275526c2f@mail.gmail.com> <4B7C10D8.6060203@crosswire.org> <161EE3FB-87D6-4AAF-922A-BF07B78849F5@mac.com> <4B7CBD6A.7080303@bible.org> Message-ID: <6D014C56-2FA6-4DF6-80D5-163E240A7C59@mac.com> Hi Todd, Thanks for your reply. That link is very helpful! However, it would be great if that link was included in the module .conf file so that when one of our users looks at the module info, they can see how they should buy and unlock the module. I'm not sure who is responsible for maintaining the SWORD version of the module, but they will need to update the .conf file to include your link. I don't want to hard-code that link into PocketSword, as that means if the link were to ever change, I would need to put out a new version of PocketSword, rather than simply push out a new version of the .conf file. However, I am interested in hearing from other front-end developers as to what they do. Given that an update to the .conf file can be almost instant and an update to PocketSword on the App Store will take at least a week (given the nature of Apple's App Store), it would seem to be preferable to all parties for the link to be in the .conf file. Also, for the only other locked/buyable module I have examined, we store the link in the .conf file, rather than requiring the front-end to know about where to redirect the user. As an aside (directed at the CrossWire guys, rather than the Bible.org guys), I would love for an addition to our .conf file structure, so that there could be a field called something like "UnlockURL", which would contain the URL that the user can navigate to in order to buy a module. Thanks, ybic nic... :) ps: would the URL you provided be the best one to show the user, or would http://store.bible.org/product.asp?ProductID=110 be preferable? Also, I believe that MacSword2 now supports the NET Premium module. Can someone verify that? Would be useful to update the Bible.org store, if that is now true. :) ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword On 25/09/2010, at 5:19 AM, Todd Lingren wrote: > Nic, > I see that I missed this email last month. Here is where we offer the Sword Module unlock for the NET Bible: > http://bible.org/article/net-bible-download#sword > > Can you update the install notice with this url? > I've checked my PocketSword on iPod Touch and was able to install it using the cipher key we give out when we sell the above product. > Thanks! > ------ > Todd Lingren > Publishing Director > todd at bible.org > support: 214-580-1999 > sales: 800-575-2425 > fax: 972-767-3166 > **** > All of the sales from http://store.bible.org > support the free trustworthy studies @ bible.org > **** > > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Nic Carter wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm replying to an email from 6 months ago, but I've been terribly behind on email lately. :( > > But I was thinking about unlocking of modules and the like recently, and stumbled upon this email. > > Background info is that PocketSword now supports multiple module repositories and unlocking of modules. However, when you download the NET Bible that is locked, I can't figure out how to tell the user where they should go in order to buy an unlock key. Hence it may be a little confusing in PocketSword for some users? Do we need to add a field in locked modules that contains the URL the user should be directed to if they wish to purchase an unlock code? > > > Thanks, ybic > nic... :) > > ps: disclaimer: PocketSword currently has a bug in it where users who haven't upgraded to iOS 4 can't enter their unlock code. I'm going to work on this today and the fix will be in PocketSword v1.3.2! > > > On 18/02/2010, at 3:21 PM, Nic Carter wrote: > >> Hi David, >> >> Troy is 100% correct, and PocketSword does have the functionality to use additional repositories, it's just that I haven't exposed that to the user :) >> >> By the time PocketSword will support unlocking modules & the like, it will also support additional repositories, so please don't seek to move your modules simply for PocketSword's sake. >> >> You've given me a good goal for v1.3: making all this work :) >> >> sorry for any confusion, thanks for the reply! >> >> ybic >> nic... :) >> >> (sent from my iPhone, hence this email is brief!) >> >> On 18/02/2010, at 15:09, "David Austin (bghp)" wrote: >> >>> todd >>> I think we are willing to have our modules in the crosswire Module Repositories but when i talked to troy he said that it wasnt necessary as all developments can get them from our links... If this is not the case lets consider puting them on cross wire also. >>> can you work this with nic and troy >>> david >>> David Austin (Executive Director www.Bible.org ) >>> 214-580 1999 ext 152(v); skype daustin100 ; DAustin at Bible.org >>> ~Home of the NETBible and over 5500 free studies >>> ~All donations http://bible.org/donate and sales from http://store.bible.org support the production and distribution of free trustworthy studies from www.bible.org >>> ~ Check out our free Bible Study tool at http://www.netbible.org >>> ----- >>> >>> >>> >>> Nic Carter wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Todd, >>>> >>>> Thanks for your comments about PocketSword :) Just to let you know, footnotes (along with Strong's Numbers & cross references) aren't implemented in PocketSword yet. My current focus for v1.2 is for Strong's Numbers (very very very much my number 1 requested feature!) and Morphology to get implemented. It makes sense to include footnotes in this release, too, but I am concerned that the more I throw into this release, the longer it will take to get this out the door -- it's just meant to be a very quick release schedule for Strong's only... ;) >>>> >>>> I'll try to answer the questions Troy has posed: >>>> >>>> 1) PocketSword doesn't currently have the ability to "unlock" a module (the functionality is not exposed through the UI). There is a way around this, but no one has asked me any questions about this, so I have yet to write it up. This is on my list of things to do, but my lack of time has meant that it hasn't happened yet! >>>> 1) a) From an end-user's point of view, the best way of "buying" a module would be through an in-app purchase. However, Apple would take 30% of the sale this way. Buying through your site, you get all the proceeds (minus whatever fees you have to pay!). >>>> >>>> 2) Currently PocketSword doesn't have the ability to download from Module Repositories other than the CrossWire and the CrossWire Beta ones. It can't even download from the CrossWire Experimental repository. This is something that needs to be addressed, but #1 needs to be fixed before this can be fixed. Currently there is a way to manually install modules (it's called Module Maintainer Mode, and you can find more information about it on the PocketSword web site and the PocketSword user forums). When #1 is addressed, I plan on addressing #2 & then I will fix the repository issue. :( >>>> >>>> 3) Easy from my end. I don't need to do anything! :D I would need to examine the process of buying a module, so I know what the user is expecting and how to best make this work for the user, but #1 and #2 needs to be addressed first. :( >>>> >>>> 4) --I don't think this is a question I can answer-- [but I agree that it is confusing] >>>> >>>> Thanks, and please feel free to email back with any questions on anything I have said. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, ybic >>>> nic... :) >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> Nic Carter >>>> PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app >>>> http://crosswire.org/pocketsword >>>> >>>> On 18/02/2010, at 2:52 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Todd, >>>>> >>>>> It's good to hear from you. I'm forwarding your email on to our developers' forum to make others aware of the issue. Nic Carter has taken the lead on the PocketSword effort, with the original work done by Ian Wagner. From your email, these are the questions I'd like us to answer. >>>>> >>>>> 1) PocketSword, being a SWORD frontend, already has the ability to decipher your encrypted modules for which Bible.org sells unlock codes. Does PocketSword expose the ability for the user to enter a decipher code? >>>>> >>>>> 2) Does PocketSword display the About and Unlock information, which should include a link to your site where the unlock code can be purchased and obtained? >>>>> >>>>> 3) Might it be possible to detect the UserAgent from the iPhone browser, such that if/when PocketSword does display the unlock information to the user and they click to go to your unlock webpage, that you can display a unique page tuned for iPhone users? >>>>> >>>>> 4) Should we be more explicit somewhere about which versions of which NET modules go together and the differences between them? Where is the best place for information? >>>>> >>>>> Responses should be sent Reply All, as Todd and David are not (to my knowledge) subscribed to our developers' forum. I'll push through any replies from them. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Troy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Todd Lingren wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey Troy it was good meeting you at ETS. >>>>>> Dave Austin sent me the link to the new Cross PocketSword app on the >>>>>> iPhone/iPod touch (I'm using the latter). >>>>>> First things first, >>>>>> I like the interface and all the sword references built in for >>>>>> download. It's well done. >>>>>> Secondly, I see that the NET is in there twice, one "limited notes" >>>>>> and one "text-free". I'm a little confused what the difference is. I >>>>>> don't see the fn markers on either one. is there supposed to be a >>>>>> footnote marker and footnotes? I found under commentaries the "net >>>>>> free notes" resource. There probably needs to be some sort of >>>>>> warning/notice when someone downloads the limited text or limited >>>>>> notes, that they need to download the other item. >>>>>> Regarding a premium, full notes version, is there planned to be an >>>>>> in-app purchase feature so someone can purchase the full notes? Or, if >>>>>> not, is there a way we could share/sell links to someone to offer it? >>>>>> ------ >>>>>> Todd Lingren >>>>>> Publishing Director >>>>>> todd at bible.org >>>>>> support: 214-580-1999 >>>>>> sales: 800-575-2425 >>>>>> fax: 972-767-3166 >>>>>> **** >>>>>> All of the sales from http://store.bible.org >>>>>> support the free trustworthy studies @ bible.org >>>>>> **** >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: David Austin (bghp) >>>>>> Date: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:43 PM >>>>>> Subject: PocketSword: an iPhone Bible Study app >>>>>> To: Todd Lingren >>>>>> Cc: Brian Seagraves , Hampton Keathley >>>>>> , Mark Austin , Joe Head >>>>>> >>>>>> http://crosswire.org/pocketsword/PocketSword/PocketSword/PocketSword.html >>>>>> todd can you test this and see if it gets both the free and premium netbible? >>>>>> if not email troy griffitts >>>>>> da >>>>>> -- >>>>>> David Austin (Executive Director www.Bible.org ) >>>>>> 214-580 1999 ext 152(v); skype daustin100 ; DAustin at Bible.org >>>>>> ~Home of the NETBible and over 5500 free studies ~All donations >>>>>> http://bible.org/donate and sales from http://store.bible.org support >>>>>> the production and distribution of free trustworthy studies from >>>>>> www.bible.org ~ Check out our free Bible Study tool at >>>>>> http://www.netbible.org ----- >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Sat Sep 25 02:50:41 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 10:50:41 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] GermanA versification Message-ID: <4C9DC5F1.8050801@gmx.net> Hi guys, I attach a patch to SWORD which introduces a new versification - the previous "German" with added Apocrypha. We will need this versification for continental Roman Catholic translations - at least Einheitsuebersetzung and my new Portuguese translation work this way. No other apocryphal versification comes even close - all have major versification issues in the OT. The in the past raised "Esther problem" I have solved by following the Einheitsuebersetzung's lead - all Greek verses are integrated into the preceding Hebrew verse which makes for occasionally very long verses but a normal flow of storyline and no versification problems. Portuguese will fit in seamlessly and I have the publisher's permission to go this route. The patch is fully integrated in versemgr.cpp and the relevant autotools makefiles, but not in any other build tools as yet. Libsword still builds and the new versification seems to work just fine. I did this this way to keep myself to stuff I have tested and can test. I will now produce a patch for the remaining build systems, but as I can not test it that well, I am less convinced there. Maybe someone else can have a look at this too. I would be grateful if this could make it into 1.6.2 Maybe it would be good if those with interest in other RC translations have a look into how this fits with their translations. I am sure there are many more than just the Portuguese and the Einheitsuebersetzung. Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GermanA.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 12599 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mabio at linkpower.com.br Sat Sep 25 18:14:57 2010 From: mabio at linkpower.com.br (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=E1bio=20Coelho?=) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 22:14:57 -0300 Subject: [sword-devel] sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100926011457.10244.qmail@hm316.locaweb.com.br> Peter, Thanks. I think that solves my issues with the Portuguese translation I?m working on... I was working on a patch my self today, then I got your e-mail. Regards, Mabio Coelho Technical Director +55 (19) 9601-5135 +55 (19) 8123-4583 Sat, 25 Sep 2010 12:00:01 -0700, sword-devel-request at crosswire.org escreveu: > Send sword-devel mailing list submissions to > sword-devel at crosswire.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sword-devel-request at crosswire.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sword-devel-owner at crosswire.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sword-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. GermanA versification (Peter von Kaehne) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 10:50:41 +0100 > From: Peter von Kaehne > To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum > Subject: [sword-devel] GermanA versification > Message-ID: <4C9DC5F1.8050801 at gmx.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi guys, > > I attach a patch to SWORD which introduces a new versification - the > previous "German" with added Apocrypha. > > We will need this versification for continental Roman Catholic > translations - at least Einheitsuebersetzung and my new Portuguese > translation work this way. No other apocryphal versification comes > even close - all have major versification issues in the OT. > > The in the past raised "Esther problem" I have solved by following the > Einheitsuebersetzung's lead - all Greek verses are integrated into the > preceding Hebrew verse which makes for occasionally very long verses but > a normal flow of storyline and no versification problems. Portuguese > will fit in seamlessly and I have the publisher's permission to go this > route. > > The patch is fully integrated in versemgr.cpp and the relevant autotools > makefiles, but not in any other build tools as yet. > > Libsword still builds and the new versification seems to work just fine. > > I did this this way to keep myself to stuff I have tested and can test. > > I will now produce a patch for the remaining build systems, but as I can > not test it that well, I am less convinced there. Maybe someone else can > have a look at this too. > > I would be grateful if this could make it into 1.6.2 > > Maybe it would be good if those with interest in other RC translations > have a look into how this fits with their translations. I am sure there > are many more than just the Portuguese and the Einheitsuebersetzung. > > Peter > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: GermanA.patch > Type: text/x-diff > Size: 12599 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list > sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > > End of sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 34 > ******************************************* > > > > From manfred.bergmann at me.com Sun Sep 26 01:49:23 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 10:49:23 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Problem with Alkitab on Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <186A56DC-B0E1-44DB-B2FD-30F1F3806D70@me.com> It was working, after a system restart. Manfred Am 22.09.2010 um 10:43 schrieb Tonny Kohar: > Hi, > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Manfred Bergmann > wrote: >> Hi. >> >> I just updated Alkitab from version 2.1.x to 2.5 and now it doesn't start anymore. >> The splash screen stays and the progress keeps saying "Done loading modules" but nothing else happens. >> Version 2.1.x was working fine before the update. >> >> I can send a crash log if that helps. >> > > Make sure you have Java 6 because Alkitab 2.5 now requires Java 6. > > And yes crash log would be very nice. Thank you > > Cheers > Tonny Kohar > -- > Alkitab BIble Study > http://www.kiyut.com > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From umphress at gmail.com Sun Sep 26 18:41:18 2010 From: umphress at gmail.com (Chris Umphress) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:41:18 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4ADEC0C2.9070706@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <4ADEC0C2.9070706@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <20100926214118.3dfb2ed2@fling.localhost> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:05:22 -0700 "Troy A. Griffitts" wrote: > A quick update on Android progress. > > o Basic Bible navigation and display are working, albeit not pretty. > o Text-to-Speech functionality is added. > o All methods from the engine are now completely wrapped to the same > swordorb.idl interface we use for SWORDWeb's Java<-CORBA->C++ bridge, so > a full-featured Android client should now be possible with the current > engine exposure. Good to hear. I recently purchased an Android phone and hope to do some development on it soon. Thanks, Chris From refdoc at gmx.net Tue Sep 28 14:36:12 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:36:12 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C864ECE.2050609@crosswire.org> <0705A274-DF99-49BB-8DD3-AFCB05FFAE44@me.com> Message-ID: <4CA25FCC.2090001@gmx.net> On 08/09/10 20:38, SonWon wrote: > I would use whatever had the highest speed. During a sermon you don't > want to wait for the text to build. Another aspect is av11n - Jsword is currently not able to deal with versifications other than KJV. This is a serious issue if the application should reach its full potential. The solution could obviously be to contribute to jsword's av11n capabilities.... Peter From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 18:12:46 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:12:46 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end Message-ID: Hi, my name is Matthew. I would like to contribute in some way to the Sword project. I have been a user for a long time. I don't know fully how I can help, as I am not a developer, but I am a translator (Chinese or Mongolian <-> English), and I am fairly savvy with computers could possibly do some testing. I am a Linux user - Ubuntu 10.04, presently. I have used Linux exclusively for several years, and preferred open source software wherever possible when I was still stuck in Windows. :) My first question is thus. I just purchased an Android phone, and as I use Sword project software on my desktop (BibleTime, Xiphos), and on my iPod Touch (PocketSword), I went looking for something from you guys for Android. Alas, the disappointment! :) However, I saw something that said someone there is in fact working on a front end. I am curious how that is coming along. Also, I didn't have the money for a high-end phone, and went the cheaper route, with an HTC Wildfire. I love the phone, actually, but one thing I discovered is that due to lower screen resolution (QVGA), there are some android marketplace apps that don't even show up in a search, because they will not install on my phone. Therefore, I am asking if it is possible to put in a request that when the Sword project does have an Android front end, can the developer(s) be sure to allow this to run on those of us who are running slightly lower screen resolutions? If I can help with testing the app, I'd love to give it a try. My phone presently runs Android 2.1. Thanks, Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From niccarter at mac.com Tue Sep 28 19:50:46 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:50:46 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n again (Fwd: [sword-support] Hello) References: <08A33F82-CB11-4CA3-A737-2E5C94734F3E@ymail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 01:26:38 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:26:38 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS headings, divs and libsword Message-ID: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> Hi guys, I stumbled last night over a problem which I think finds its origin in the library and I would be grateful for your take on it: Basically if a tag precedes the body of a verse it will not reliably be fed back to the front ends if there are <div> tags present in the same verse. Removing the divs (crudely nuking them via mod2imp -> nuke divs -> imp2vs) will make the titles suddenly appear if the heading option is set. An example is here: $$$Matthew 6:1 <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1613"/><div sID="gen1714" type="section"/> <title>Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. will throw in diatheke diatheke -b ABN -oh -f OSIS -k Matt6:1 Matthew 6:1: Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. (ABN) In other frontends the heading is missing too. It is not by all means always like this - some (few) headings (e.g in Matthew 1:1 ) seem to survive, though I have not yet figured out what makes them happen and what not. The module text above is from John Duffy's Irish Bible - the module is available here: http://www.anbioblanaofa.org/en/crosswire Acc to John Duffy, more headings are visible in older versions of BibleCS and Xiphos (1.5.11 and 3.1.1 respectively) Peter From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 02:32:21 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:32:21 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n again (Fwd: [sword-support] Hello) In-Reply-To: References: <08A33F82-CB11-4CA3-A737-2E5C94734F3E@ymail.com> Message-ID: <20100929093221.24710@gmx.net> I think the consensus is there for "old", "main", "beta", - where old carries only KJV v11n, main carries all our tested modules, irrespective of versification and beta carries updates to existing modules (apart from re-issues with proper versification). And "experimental" will then keep only the _really_ experimental stuff. I would volunteer to do the first run of re-ordering of modules, if Chris and Troy agree (and give me the server rights). My only hesitation to do so is that i am going on a holiday for a fortnight and will likely not be much around. Peter -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:50:46 +1000 > Von: Nic Carter > An: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum > Betreff: [sword-devel] av11n again (Fwd: [sword-support] Hello) > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -- Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/demail From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Wed Sep 29 03:36:05 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 03:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Unicode text editors (useful links) Message-ID: <1285756565623-2718699.post@n4.nabble.com> I just received the heads-up about BabelPad. Here's a link. http://www.babelstone.co.uk/ http://www.babelstone.co.uk/ Currently, I mostly use the following text editors for various purposes when editing Unicode files. http://notepad-plus-plus.org/ Notepad++ (general purpose - open source - excellent Find dialog) http://www.unipad.org/ SC Unipad (free version - session time limited - doesn't need Windows installed fonts for rendering - includes a character map for the Basic Multilingual Plane) http://www.editpadlite.com/ Editpad Lite (useful to convert from other code pages) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordPad WordPad (useful to convert RTF to Unicode) I'm sure some of you find other Text Editors useful, so don't be shy at sharing what you like about them. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Unicode-text-editors-useful-links-tp2718699p2718699.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Wed Sep 29 03:38:55 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 03:38:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] av11n again (Fwd: [sword-support] Hello) In-Reply-To: <20100929093221.24710@gmx.net> References: <20100929093221.24710@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1285756735321-2718709.post@n4.nabble.com> If there are moves afoot, please ensure that the relevant wiki pages are updated accordingly. Thanks. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/av11n-again-Fwd-sword-support-Hello-tp2718252p2718709.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mjdenham at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 05:53:55 2010 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:53:55 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Matthew, You can find the bible for Android that uses JSword at http://code.google.com/p/and-bible/. There was another bible for Android based on Sword called Bishop and it appears that Gary at CrossConnect has continued development of that code and has a beta release but I don't really know much about that. I use an old G1 which is a very low spec mobile and it runs fine. I used to have Android 1.6 but upgraded to 2.2 and both versions were fine. The bible has not yet been put on App Market so that is why you can't find it there. It would be useful if you could give feedback regarding how the Chinese bibles work on the Android bible s/w. I did install a Chinese module but can't read Chinese. Also if you do some testing on and-bible can you raise (or fix) any issues. Some people contribute ui translations to and-bible by translating strings.xml and arrays.xml. Thomas has proposed doing a translation of all languages using a Google tool but I don't know how well the Google tool would handle Chinese, so it would be good to have a manual translation of the ui in Chinese. There does not seem to be a Mongolian bible available on CrossWire but you may be able to help out in that respect. There are a few comments regarding a potential Mongolian bible here: http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Module_Requests. It would be great to have a Mongolian bible available for download so that could be an area you could help out. David Haslam seems to have looked into this. Best regards Martin On 29 September 2010 02:12, Matthew Patenaude wrote: > Hi, my name is Matthew. I would like to contribute in some way to the Sword > project. I have been a user for a long time. I don't know fully how I can > help, as I am not a developer, but I am a translator (Chinese or Mongolian > <-> English), and I am fairly savvy with computers could possibly do some > testing. > > I am a Linux user - Ubuntu 10.04, presently. I have used Linux exclusively > for several years, and preferred open source software wherever possible when > I was still stuck in Windows. :) > > My first question is thus. I just purchased an Android phone, and as I use > Sword project software on my desktop (BibleTime, Xiphos), and on my iPod > Touch (PocketSword), I went looking for something from you guys for Android. > Alas, the disappointment! :) However, I saw something that said someone > there is in fact working on a front end. > > I am curious how that is coming along. Also, I didn't have the money for a > high-end phone, and went the cheaper route, with an HTC Wildfire. I love the > phone, actually, but one thing I discovered is that due to lower screen > resolution (QVGA), there are some android marketplace apps that don't even > show up in a search, because they will not install on my phone. Therefore, I > am asking if it is possible to put in a request that when the Sword project > does have an Android front end, can the developer(s) be sure to allow this > to run on those of us who are running slightly lower screen resolutions? > > If I can help with testing the app, I'd love to give it a try. My phone > presently runs Android 2.1. > > Thanks, > Matthew > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Wed Sep 29 05:57:49 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 05:57:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1285765069269-2718944.post@n4.nabble.com> Matthew, I would suggest you subscribe to the CrossWire mailing list called mobile-devel. To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-devel http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-devel Martin Denham is developing the SWORD front-end for the Android OS. From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Sep 25 08:00:05 2010 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 15:00:05 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: We already have good contacts for Chinese Bible translations. Do you have any suitable contact for Mongolian Bible translation[s]? e.g. Whereby CrossWire could begin to discuss permissions with the copyright owners. What can you tell us about the debate about the terminology used to translate certain terms into Mongolian? e.g. The preferred words to translate, "the Almighty", etc. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/question-regarding-Android-front-end-tp2718177p2718944.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 07:06:07 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:06:07 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Fonts on AndBible - was Re: question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100929140607.24710@gmx.net> Hi Martin, Is there any plan for AndBible to do some font management? Basically a lot of our Bibles are not usable on Androids as the fonts delivered alongside (unless on roots the box) are so limited. Even within the Latin range there are letters missing. Arabic/Persian letters are practically nowhere catered for in European Android phones. So, the ability to download and use a font even just for AndBible without starting to think about rooting would be brilliant. Many thanks Peter -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 07:10:25 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:10:25 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Fonts on AndBible - was Re: question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: <20100929140607.24710@gmx.net> References: <20100929140607.24710@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20100929141025.24700@gmx.net> > Von: "Peter von Kaehne" > So, the ability to download and use a font even just for AndBible without > starting to think about rooting would be brilliant. I would think this would also be of interest to people wanting to use original language texts. Peter -- Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/demail From kalemas at mail.ru Wed Sep 29 08:40:13 2010 From: kalemas at mail.ru (Konstantin Maslyuk) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:40:13 +0400 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings Message-ID: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> Hi. I would write mapping system and mapping data for Synodal v11n, of course if anyone from Sword Project heads want me to do it. -- ? ?????????, Konstantin mailto:kalemas at mail.ru From mjdenham at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 08:46:04 2010 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:46:04 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Fonts on AndBible - was Re: question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: <20100929140607.24710@gmx.net> References: <20100929140607.24710@gmx.net> Message-ID: Hi Peter, Yes, this is a bit frustrating but this is not something I personally had planned to work on, partly because I don't have much experience in that area and partly because any work would hopefully soon be superseded by improvements in Android font support. Google seem to be improving font support in each release. If anybody feels like working in this area then I can support them wrt integration with and-bible but I am currently busy working in other areas of and-bible. Best regards Martin On 29 September 2010 15:06, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Hi Martin, > > Is there any plan for AndBible to do some font management? Basically a lot > of our Bibles are not usable on Androids as the fonts delivered alongside > (unless on roots the box) are so limited. > > Even within the Latin range there are letters missing. > > Arabic/Persian letters are practically nowhere catered for in European > Android phones. > > So, the ability to download and use a font even just for AndBible without > starting to think about rooting would be brilliant. > > Many thanks > > Peter > -- > GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* > http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 08:58:23 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:58:23 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings In-Reply-To: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> References: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> Message-ID: <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> > Von: Konstantin Maslyuk > Hi. I would write mapping system and mapping data for Synodal v11n, of > course if anyone from Sword Project heads want me to do it. I think this would be wonderful if this is finally started. Peter -- GMX DSL SOMMER-SPECIAL: Surf & Phone Flat 16.000 f?r nur 19,99 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl From chrislit at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 13:21:13 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:21:13 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings In-Reply-To: <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> References: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4CA39FB9.3010504@crosswire.org> This has been available (in SVN) for a year. --Chris On 9/29/2010 8:58 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > >> Von: Konstantin Maslyuk > >> Hi. I would write mapping system and mapping data for Synodal v11n, of >> course if anyone from Sword Project heads want me to do it. > > I think this would be wonderful if this is finally started. > > Peter From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 13:55:08 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:55:08 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names Message-ID: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> New Zealand. Hello all, I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know if this is not the right forum to ask questions. I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the alphabet and appears in several book names! Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested work-around. Thanks, Robert. From dhowens at pmbx.net Wed Sep 29 14:08:09 2010 From: dhowens at pmbx.net (Daniel Owens) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:08:09 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > New Zealand. > > Hello all, > > I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire > Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know > if this is not the right forum to ask questions. > > I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that > localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the > hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we > worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the > alphabet and appears in several book names! > > Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested > work-around. > > Thanks, > Robert. > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be comprehensible without the hyphen? Daniel From greg.hellings at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:17:17 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 16:17:17 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> Message-ID: OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his email, but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the letter s in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it would be horrible usability and I probably wouldn't take such software seriously! Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphen-like character would be a good solution? On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" wrote: > > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> New Zealand. >> >> Hello all, >> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. >> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the >> alphabet and appears in several book names! >> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >> work-around. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert. >> > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be > comprehensible without the hyphen? > > Daniel > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:28:19 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:28:19 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> Message-ID: <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:31:29 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:31:29 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Python Message-ID: <4CA3B031.2060002@gmail.com> Dear all, I see that the page http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:Code_Examples has a heading for "Python" but no sample code there, and a site search for Python didn't find anything helpful. It seems from emails flashing by that Python bindings for SWORD are available??? Is there any documentation or help to get started? (I haven't actually found out where to find any of the SWORD code yet, so maybe there's documentation there???) Thanks, Robert. From westonruter at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 14:47:00 2010 From: westonruter at gmail.com (Weston Ruter) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:47:00 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> Message-ID: Is this limitation in SWORD due to the OSIS requirement that book names not have hyphens? OSIS defines that a book (first segment) in an osisID must match ((\p{L}|\p{N}|_|(\\[^\s]))+). This means that a book must contain only letters or numbers or underscores... or it may contain another character (except spaces) if it is escaped with a backslash. So according to OSIS, you could have a book name "First\-Corinthians". Sadly, spaces aren't allowed even if they are escaped due to an XML limitation apparently. So does SWORD not support escaping in osisIDs? BTW, we need to work toward OSIS 3.0. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Greg Hellings wrote: > OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his email, > but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. > > You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the letter s > in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it would be horrible > usability and I probably wouldn't take such software seriously! > > Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphen-like > character would be a good solution? > On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" wrote: > > > > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > >> New Zealand. > >> > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire > >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know > >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. > >> > >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that > >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the > >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we > >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the > >> alphabet and appears in several book names! > >> > >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested > >> work-around. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert. > >> > > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the > > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still > > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because > > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of > > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be > > comprehensible without the hyphen? > > > > Daniel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -- Weston Ruter http://weston.ruter.net/ @westonruter - Google Profile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 15:06:43 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:06:43 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> Seriously? Someone designed an orthography in which \x2D (hyphen-minus) is used as an alphabetic character? What's its phonemic value? Hyphen-minus is simply not a letter. You can see its character properties at http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2d/index.htm. Scroll down to see that the value of isLetter() is No. Hyphen-minus is punctuation. Sword should not be modified to accommodate abuses of the Unicode Standard. If you can find a hyphen-like letter in the Unicode character repertoire, I would suggest changing to that (in all cases). Letters will indicate that they are letters in their character properties. If there is no such character, you should propose one to Unicode. --Chris On 9/29/10 1:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > New Zealand. > > Hello all, > > I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire Sword > wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know if this > is not the right forum to ask questions. > > I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that localised > book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the hyphen is used > for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we worked with as > Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the alphabet and appears in > several book names! > > Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested > work-around. > > Thanks, > Robert. > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From chrislit at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 15:08:47 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:08:47 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> Message-ID: <4CA3B8EF.9030207@crosswire.org> These are completely unrelated. You're talking about OSIS identifiers, which are non-linguistic data, which is obviously unlocalizable. Robert is talking about book name localization. --Chris On 9/29/10 2:47 PM, Weston Ruter wrote: > Is this limitation in SWORD due to the OSIS requirement that book names > not have hyphens? OSIS defines that a book (first segment) in an osisID > must match ((\p{L}|\p{N}|_|(\\[^\s]))+). This means that a book must > contain only letters or numbers or underscores... or it may contain > another character (except spaces) if it is escaped with a backslash. So > according to OSIS, you could have a book name "First\-Corinthians". > Sadly, spaces aren't allowed even if they are escaped due to an XML > limitation apparently. > > So does SWORD not support escaping in osisIDs? > > BTW, we need to work toward OSIS 3.0. > > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Greg Hellings > wrote: > > OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his > email, but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. > > You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the > letter s in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it > would be horrible usability and I probably wouldn't take such > software seriously! > > Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and > hyphen-like character would be a good solution? > > On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" > wrote: > > > > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > >> New Zealand. > >> > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire > >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me > know > >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. > >> > >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that > >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the > >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language > that we > >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the > >> alphabet and appears in several book names! > >> > >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested > >> work-around. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert. > >> > > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop > the > > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still > > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because > > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of > > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names > still be > > comprehensible without the hyphen? > > > > Daniel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > -- > Weston Ruter > http://weston.ruter.net/ > @westonruter - Google Profile > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From caleb at alerque.com Wed Sep 29 15:11:38 2010 From: caleb at alerque.com (Caleb Maclennan) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:11:38 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 15:53, Martin Denham wrote: >... has proposed doing a translation of all languages using a Google tool > but I don't know how well the Google tool would handle Chinese I haven't seen the original discussion context that this comment references, but having had some experience in the area of translated software I wanted to make a comment about the viability of machine translation for software interfaces: Forget about how well it handles or doesn't handle Chinese -- for which there is undoubtedly a large corpus of documents and hand fixed translations to at least give it a fighting chance -- but this is a crazy idea for many minority languages more recently introduced to the world of machine translation. I've seen some software interfaces that were obviously done this way and they are the subject of nothing but ridicule even if the base software might have been a good thing. I love Google Translate and their various language tools, but let's put the effort into finding local translators before throwing software out there! Caleb From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 15:19:32 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:19:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS headings, divs and libsword In-Reply-To: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> References: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4CA3BB74.8080907@crosswire.org> Peter, Your markup is exactly correct. There is initial code is osis2mod which handles pre-verse
content, but it was commented out recently because the engine filters have not yet caught up. The history is that we used to only support the OSIS tag for preverse content. We are generalizing the preverse concept to include anything and thus it will change to a preverse div (just like you have marked up in your example). But the engine filters do not yet all handle this correctly. I hope this answers your question. In summary: you are correct, the expanded definition of pre-verse content is in the works, but it's not completed yet. Troy On 09/29/2010 09:26 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > Hi guys, > > I stumbled last night over a problem which I think finds its origin in > the library and I would be grateful for your take on it: > > Basically if a <title> tag precedes the body of a verse it will not > reliably be fed back to the front ends if there are <div> tags present > in the same verse. > > Removing the divs (crudely nuking them via mod2imp -> nuke divs -> > imp2vs) will make the titles suddenly appear if the heading option is set. > > An example is here: > > $$$Matthew 6:1 > <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1613"/><div > sID="gen1714" type="section"/> <title>Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" eID="pv1613"/> Aire daoibh gan > bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine > chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan > tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. type="x-end-paragraph"/> > > will throw in diatheke > > diatheke -b ABN -oh -f OSIS -k Matt6:1 > > Matthew 6:1: Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur > ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, > ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? > ar neamh. type="x-begin-paragraph"/> > (ABN) > > In other frontends the heading is missing too. > > It is not by all means always like this - some (few) headings (e.g in > Matthew 1:1 ) seem to survive, though I have not yet figured out what > makes them happen and what not. > > The module text above is from John Duffy's Irish Bible - the module is > available here: > > http://www.anbioblanaofa.org/en/crosswire > > Acc to John Duffy, more headings are visible in older versions of > BibleCS and Xiphos (1.5.11 and 3.1.1 respectively) > > > Peter > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From benpmorgan at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 15:19:03 2010 From: benpmorgan at gmail.com (Ben Morgan) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:19:03 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:17 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > > Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphen-like > character would be a good solution? > This is exactly what BPBible allows. Numerals are defined in the text section with the identifier 0123456789 e.g. for hindi/nepali 0123456789=?????????? It also allow hyphens in book names using a workaround. For example, in vietnamese there will be these two lines for 2 peter (the first being standard SWORD line, the second mapping from that to a with-hyphens version). II Peter=II Phier? II Phier?=II Phi-e-r? It's not the neatest solution but it does work. God Bless, Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Gi??n 3:14 (ESV) > On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" wrote: > > > > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > >> New Zealand. > >> > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire > >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know > >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. > >> > >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that > >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the > >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we > >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the > >> alphabet and appears in several book names! > >> > >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested > >> work-around. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert. > >> > > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the > > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still > > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because > > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of > > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be > > comprehensible without the hyphen? > > > > Daniel > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 15:20:50 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:20:50 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] automatic creation of po files Message-ID: <4CA3BBC2.20406@gmx.net> I thought this would be of interest to many of you: http://pepipopum.dixo.net/index.php It is easy to use, but does require some attention as not everything gets done cleanly - variables and some RTF markup become easily quite messy Nevertheless, many of the best translations we have were initiated as really shoddy ones and the power of embarrassment drove translators to fix them, so, you might want to consider it for your project.... Peter From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 15:31:18 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:31:18 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA3BE36.3050404@gmx.net> On 29/09/10 23:11, Caleb Maclennan wrote: > I love Google Translate and their various language tools, but let's > put the effort into finding local translators before throwing software > out there! Caleb, I agree and disagree at the same time. I am at this now for several years - a fair number of translations across the board in CrossWire in various languages are mine, inspired by me or mentored by me. There is an enormous power in a bad translation - it draws out guys who would never dream of doing something. Several translations we have and many many imporvements would never have come about if we had not presented a rough and ready "mock-up" With this in mind I am committing right now a google translated entire translation for Xiphos in Arabic. I am fed up to the core that we do not have an Arabic translation, I have tried to recruit translators for the language for 5 years and now I will make some people shame faced and steaming with anger when they see the poor translation. And - hopefully - next release we will have a nice one.... Peter From refdoc at gmx.net Wed Sep 29 15:33:48 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:33:48 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS headings, divs and libsword In-Reply-To: <4CA3BB74.8080907@crosswire.org> References: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> <4CA3BB74.8080907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA3BECC.3020805@gmx.net> On 29/09/10 23:19, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > Your markup is exactly correct. There is initial code is osis2mod which > handles pre-verse
content, but it was commented out recently > because the engine filters have not yet caught up. > > The history is that we used to only support the OSIS tag for > preverse content. We are generalizing the preverse concept to include > anything and thus it will change to a preverse div (just like you have > marked up in your example). But the engine filters do not yet all > handle this correctly. > > I hope this answers your question. It does. What do I do with the module? We have a pretty discouraged customer here who has worked very hard to create this module (not me) but AFAIK no frontend displays it right. Peter > > In summary: you are correct, the expanded definition of pre-verse > content is in the works, but it's not completed yet. > > Troy > > > On 09/29/2010 09:26 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> I stumbled last night over a problem which I think finds its origin in >> the library and I would be grateful for your take on it: >> >> Basically if a <title> tag precedes the body of a verse it will not >> reliably be fed back to the front ends if there are <div> tags present >> in the same verse. >> >> Removing the divs (crudely nuking them via mod2imp -> nuke divs -> >> imp2vs) will make the titles suddenly appear if the heading option is set. >> >> An example is here: >> >> $$$Matthew 6:1 >> <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1613"/><div >> sID="gen1714" type="section"/> <title>Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
> type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" eID="pv1613"/> Aire daoibh gan >> bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine >> chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan >> tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. > type="x-end-paragraph"/> >> >> will throw in diatheke >> >> diatheke -b ABN -oh -f OSIS -k Matt6:1 >> >> Matthew 6:1: Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur >> ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, >> ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? >> ar neamh. > type="x-begin-paragraph"/> >> (ABN) >> >> In other frontends the heading is missing too. >> >> It is not by all means always like this - some (few) headings (e.g in >> Matthew 1:1 ) seem to survive, though I have not yet figured out what >> makes them happen and what not. >> >> The module text above is from John Duffy's Irish Bible - the module is >> available here: >> >> http://www.anbioblanaofa.org/en/crosswire >> >> Acc to John Duffy, more headings are visible in older versions of >> BibleCS and Xiphos (1.5.11 and 3.1.1 respectively) >> >> >> Peter >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 15:42:39 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:42:39 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA3C0DF.10502@crosswire.org> :) In principle I agree with Chris, but I can't decide what people do with names. One of my colleagues in this country (England) is named Instone-Brewer (sorry to use you as an example David). We've been wanting to internationalize the numerals and action symbols in our verse parser for a while now (and the display format, e.g., %BOOK %CH:%VS, %VS or %BOOK %CH,%VS.%VS ). It's not a huge task but it's on the list with everything else. It sounds like the BPBible guys already have a good start at this. I'd love to see the patch or if one of you guys would like to head up this item, please speak up. I do have a question to the original poster (and regarding Vietnamese). Do you also use '-' in ranges or do you use another character? This might introduce localized logic differences to the parser, not simply localization strings. Troy On 09/29/2010 11:06 PM, Chris Little wrote: > Seriously? Someone designed an orthography in which \x2D (hyphen-minus) > is used as an alphabetic character? What's its phonemic value? > > Hyphen-minus is simply not a letter. You can see its character > properties at http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2d/index.htm. > Scroll down to see that the value of isLetter() is No. Hyphen-minus is > punctuation. > > Sword should not be modified to accommodate abuses of the Unicode > Standard. If you can find a hyphen-like letter in the Unicode character > repertoire, I would suggest changing to that (in all cases). Letters > will indicate that they are letters in their character properties. If > there is no such character, you should propose one to Unicode. > > --Chris > > On 9/29/10 1:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> New Zealand. >> >> Hello all, >> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire Sword >> wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know if this >> is not the right forum to ask questions. >> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that localised >> book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the hyphen is used >> for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we worked with as >> Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the alphabet and appears in >> several book names! >> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >> work-around. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From niccarter at mac.com Wed Sep 29 15:44:00 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:44:00 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS headings, divs and libsword In-Reply-To: <4CA3BECC.3020805@gmx.net> References: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> <4CA3BB74.8080907@crosswire.org> <4CA3BECC.3020805@gmx.net> Message-ID: FYI, I was able to hack the OSIS headings filter, after some help from Karl, to get that module & LEB headings to work in PocketSword. I don't think Troy liked my hack, though, given it was a work-around hack rather than a proper fix, but you can at least point to the currently available version of PS as a front end that displays this correctly. :) If anyone wants technical details of my discoveries of what was wrong in the OSIS headings filters, let me know. I believe I passed the info on to Troy, but his recent moving of countries has meant he has an (understandable!) backlog :) Thanks, ybic Nic :) Sent from my phone, hence this email may be short... On 30/09/2010, at 8:33 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > On 29/09/10 23:19, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> Your markup is exactly correct. There is initial code is osis2mod which >> handles pre-verse
content, but it was commented out recently >> because the engine filters have not yet caught up. >> >> The history is that we used to only support the OSIS tag for >> preverse content. We are generalizing the preverse concept to include >> anything and thus it will change to a preverse div (just like you have >> marked up in your example). But the engine filters do not yet all >> handle this correctly. >> >> I hope this answers your question. > > It does. What do I do with the module? We have a pretty discouraged > customer here who has worked very hard to create this module (not me) > but AFAIK no frontend displays it right. > > Peter > >> >> In summary: you are correct, the expanded definition of pre-verse >> content is in the works, but it's not completed yet. >> >> Troy >> >> >> On 09/29/2010 09:26 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> I stumbled last night over a problem which I think finds its origin in >>> the library and I would be grateful for your take on it: >>> >>> Basically if a <title> tag precedes the body of a verse it will not >>> reliably be fed back to the front ends if there are <div> tags present >>> in the same verse. >>> >>> Removing the divs (crudely nuking them via mod2imp -> nuke divs -> >>> imp2vs) will make the titles suddenly appear if the heading option is set. >>> >>> An example is here: >>> >>> $$$Matthew 6:1 >>> <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1613"/><div >>> sID="gen1714" type="section"/> <title>Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
>> type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" eID="pv1613"/> Aire daoibh gan >>> bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine >>> chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan >>> tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. >> type="x-end-paragraph"/> >>> >>> will throw in diatheke >>> >>> diatheke -b ABN -oh -f OSIS -k Matt6:1 >>> >>> Matthew 6:1: Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur >>> ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, >>> ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? >>> ar neamh. >> type="x-begin-paragraph"/> >>> (ABN) >>> >>> In other frontends the heading is missing too. >>> >>> It is not by all means always like this - some (few) headings (e.g in >>> Matthew 1:1 ) seem to survive, though I have not yet figured out what >>> makes them happen and what not. >>> >>> The module text above is from John Duffy's Irish Bible - the module is >>> available here: >>> >>> http://www.anbioblanaofa.org/en/crosswire >>> >>> Acc to John Duffy, more headings are visible in older versions of >>> BibleCS and Xiphos (1.5.11 and 3.1.1 respectively) >>> >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 15:54:35 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:54:35 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS headings, divs and libsword In-Reply-To: <4CA3BECC.3020805@gmx.net> References: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> <4CA3BB74.8080907@crosswire.org> <4CA3BECC.3020805@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4CA3C3AB.3020608@crosswire.org> Well, if your example is representative of your entire module-- that the preverse div only contains a title, then the answer is simply transform:
Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
to:
Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc I don't believe we have ever release a version of the engine which supported
, only But actually the type="x-preverse" shouldn't even be required. osis2mod add this for the engine: <title>The Word In the beginning was the Word... Should be transformed by osis2mod to: $$$John.1.1 The Word In the beginning was the Word... Hope this is useful. osis2mod does its best to support a full range of OSIS markup, but still need to be expanded to handle more. Troy On 09/29/2010 11:33 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > On 29/09/10 23:19, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >> Your markup is exactly correct. There is initial code is osis2mod which >> handles pre-verse
content, but it was commented out recently >> because the engine filters have not yet caught up. >> >> The history is that we used to only support the OSIS tag for >> preverse content. We are generalizing the preverse concept to include >> anything and thus it will change to a preverse div (just like you have >> marked up in your example). But the engine filters do not yet all >> handle this correctly. >> >> I hope this answers your question. > > It does. What do I do with the module? We have a pretty discouraged > customer here who has worked very hard to create this module (not me) > but AFAIK no frontend displays it right. > > Peter > >> >> In summary: you are correct, the expanded definition of pre-verse >> content is in the works, but it's not completed yet. >> >> Troy >> >> >> On 09/29/2010 09:26 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> I stumbled last night over a problem which I think finds its origin in >>> the library and I would be grateful for your take on it: >>> >>> Basically if a <title> tag precedes the body of a verse it will not >>> reliably be fed back to the front ends if there are <div> tags present >>> in the same verse. >>> >>> Removing the divs (crudely nuking them via mod2imp -> nuke divs -> >>> imp2vs) will make the titles suddenly appear if the heading option is set. >>> >>> An example is here: >>> >>> $$$Matthew 6:1 >>> <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1613"/><div >>> sID="gen1714" type="section"/> <title>Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
>> type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" eID="pv1613"/> Aire daoibh gan >>> bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine >>> chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan >>> tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. >> type="x-end-paragraph"/> >>> >>> will throw in diatheke >>> >>> diatheke -b ABN -oh -f OSIS -k Matt6:1 >>> >>> Matthew 6:1: Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur >>> ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, >>> ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? >>> ar neamh. >> type="x-begin-paragraph"/> >>> (ABN) >>> >>> In other frontends the heading is missing too. >>> >>> It is not by all means always like this - some (few) headings (e.g in >>> Matthew 1:1 ) seem to survive, though I have not yet figured out what >>> makes them happen and what not. >>> >>> The module text above is from John Duffy's Irish Bible - the module is >>> available here: >>> >>> http://www.anbioblanaofa.org/en/crosswire >>> >>> Acc to John Duffy, more headings are visible in older versions of >>> BibleCS and Xiphos (1.5.11 and 3.1.1 respectively) >>> >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 15:57:02 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:57:02 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> On 30/09/10 11:06, Chris Little wrote: > Seriously? Someone designed an orthography in which \x2D > (hyphen-minus) is used as an alphabetic character? What's its phonemic > value? Oh! I guess I've been using hyphenated words in English since I learnt to write. I unthinkingly used it in the word "work-around" in my original email below. What Unicode character does that get encoded as? > > Hyphen-minus is simply not a letter. You can see its character > properties at > http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2d/index.htm. Scroll down > to see that the value of isLetter() is No. Hyphen-minus is punctuation. > > Sword should not be modified to accommodate abuses of the Unicode > Standard. If you can find a hyphen-like letter in the Unicode > character repertoire, I would suggest changing to that (in all cases). > Letters will indicate that they are letters in their character > properties. If there is no such character, you should propose one to > Unicode. "Abuse" sounds pretty strong to me in this context. It makes one really wonder whether Unicode defines the world, or whether language came first and Unicode came later? However, I guess using a different Unicode character would be a satisfactory work-around if the user could find a way to type that character (and knew to do it)??? > > --Chris > > On 9/29/10 1:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> New Zealand. >> >> Hello all, >> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire Sword >> wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know if this >> is not the right forum to ask questions. >> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that localised >> book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the hyphen is used >> for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we worked with as >> Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the alphabet and appears in >> several book names! >> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >> work-around. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert. > From scribe at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 15:57:24 2010 From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:57:24 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] OSIS headings, divs and libsword In-Reply-To: References: <4CA2F83E.3010603@gmx.net> <4CA3BB74.8080907@crosswire.org> <4CA3BECC.3020805@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4CA3C454.5010608@crosswire.org> :) Sorry Nic. Thanks for the reminder though. Peter, Please ignore my previous post. It looks like from your example that you are not using SVN head of SWORD which includes the removal of the preverse
functionality from osis2mod Please use the latest osis2mod and you will likely have better luck. Troy On 09/29/2010 11:44 PM, Nic Carter wrote: > > FYI, I was able to hack the OSIS headings filter, after some help from Karl, to get that module & LEB headings to work in PocketSword. I don't think Troy liked my hack, though, given it was a work-around hack rather than a proper fix, but you can at least point to the currently available version of PS as a front end that displays this correctly. :) > > If anyone wants technical details of my discoveries of what was wrong in the OSIS headings filters, let me know. I believe I passed the info on to Troy, but his recent moving of countries has meant he has an (understandable!) backlog :) > > Thanks, ybic > Nic :) > > Sent from my phone, hence this email may be short... > > On 30/09/2010, at 8:33 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > >> On 29/09/10 23:19, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: >>> Your markup is exactly correct. There is initial code is osis2mod which >>> handles pre-verse
content, but it was commented out recently >>> because the engine filters have not yet caught up. >>> >>> The history is that we used to only support the OSIS tag for >>> preverse content. We are generalizing the preverse concept to include >>> anything and thus it will change to a preverse div (just like you have >>> marked up in your example). But the engine filters do not yet all >>> handle this correctly. >>> >>> I hope this answers your question. >> >> It does. What do I do with the module? We have a pretty discouraged >> customer here who has worked very hard to create this module (not me) >> but AFAIK no frontend displays it right. >> >> Peter >> >>> >>> In summary: you are correct, the expanded definition of pre-verse >>> content is in the works, but it's not completed yet. >>> >>> Troy >>> >>> >>> On 09/29/2010 09:26 AM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> I stumbled last night over a problem which I think finds its origin in >>>> the library and I would be grateful for your take on it: >>>> >>>> Basically if a <title> tag precedes the body of a verse it will not >>>> reliably be fed back to the front ends if there are <div> tags present >>>> in the same verse. >>>> >>>> Removing the divs (crudely nuking them via mod2imp -> nuke divs -> >>>> imp2vs) will make the titles suddenly appear if the heading option is set. >>>> >>>> An example is here: >>>> >>>> $$$Matthew 6:1 >>>> <div type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" sID="pv1613"/><div >>>> sID="gen1714" type="section"/> <title>Intinn Ghlan sa D?irc
>>> type="x-milestone" subType="x-preverse" eID="pv1613"/> Aire daoibh gan >>>> bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine >>>> chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan >>>> tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? ar neamh. >>> type="x-end-paragraph"/> >>>> >>>> will throw in diatheke >>>> >>>> diatheke -b ABN -oh -f OSIS -k Matt6:1 >>>> >>>> Matthew 6:1: Aire daoibh gan bheith ag d?anamh taibhsimh as bhur >>>> ndea-oibreacha os comhair daoine chun go dtabharfaid?s faoi deara iad, >>>> ?ir m? bh?onn sibh, beidh sibh gan tuarastal i l?thair bhur nAthar at? >>>> ar neamh. >>> type="x-begin-paragraph"/> >>>> (ABN) >>>> >>>> In other frontends the heading is missing too. >>>> >>>> It is not by all means always like this - some (few) headings (e.g in >>>> Matthew 1:1 ) seem to survive, though I have not yet figured out what >>>> makes them happen and what not. >>>> >>>> The module text above is from John Duffy's Irish Bible - the module is >>>> available here: >>>> >>>> http://www.anbioblanaofa.org/en/crosswire >>>> >>>> Acc to John Duffy, more headings are visible in older versions of >>>> BibleCS and Xiphos (1.5.11 and 3.1.1 respectively) >>>> >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From jmarsden at fastmail.fm Wed Sep 29 17:32:12 2010 From: jmarsden at fastmail.fm (Jonathan Marsden) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:32:12 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA3DA8C.3050009@fastmail.fm> All the Filipino languages I came across when I was living there consistently used a Spanish-derived orthography, and I don't remember any of them treating "-" as a letter. Of course, I didn't deal with the huge majority of the little tribal languages out there! On 9/29/2010 2:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > Even in English, hyphen is a valid letter as you can see in the > sentence above. Really? As far as I know, all English-based (POSIX) locale definitions consider the hyphen to be punctuation, like the comma, full stop, question mark, quotation marks, and so on... these are not letters. I used parentheses, commas and an ellipsis in the previous sentence -- does that make them letters too? Can you provide a pointer to an English grammar definition or tutorial that states that the hyphen is a letter in English? Do English children reciting their alphabet phonetically include the letter "-" ? If so, how do they pronounce it? Note: I am English, and I am very sure that there was no hyphen in the English alphabet when I was younger :) "The sentence above" was: >> Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and >> hyphen-like character would be a good solution? Rewriting this without the hyphen gets us: Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphenlike character would be a good solution? which looks pretty readable to me. How does this sentence demonstrate that "-" is a letter in English? To determine how often the issue of hyphen actually being "a letter" has occurred before, you might want to search the CLDR data from http://cldr.unicode.org/ to find such locales. Are there any (POSIX) locale definitions for which python -c 'print "-".isalpha()' returns True ? Have the folks in the Philippines defined a POSIX locale for the language they are working with (so that native speakers of it can use computers 'in' that language and have wordwrap, spelling checkers, etc. work more or less as expected)? If so, in that locale, is the hyphen considered an "alpha" character, that is, part of the alphabet? Is there a different (punctuation) symbol that is used to connect words or syllables in a similar way to how we use hyphens in English, or to connect numbers representing the beginning and end of a range? I suspect that including a 'range specifier' character in SWORD locales, which defaults to "-" if not specified, would be a reasonable way forward with this issue. But that would need a new release of SWORD, and probably new releases of Xiphos and BibleTime, before it is of practical use to the folks in the Philippines. Lastly, and just out of curiosity, when kids recite the alphabet phonetically in this language in the Philippines, what sound do they emit when they reach the letter "-" ? :) [If they do not include it, then is it *truly* being considered a letter (part of the alphabet) in this language? Or is it in fact some sort of modifier?]. Jonathan From jmarsden at fastmail.fm Wed Sep 29 17:42:32 2010 From: jmarsden at fastmail.fm (Jonathan Marsden) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:42:32 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> Robert, On 9/29/2010 3:57 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > Oh! I guess I've been using hyphenated words in English since I learnt > to write. I unthinkingly used it in the word "work-around" ... That does not make it a letter. It just makes it a symbol used during writing. Letters are what make up the alphabet. The "-" in your word work-around is not part of the English alphabet. It is not a letter in English. It is punctuation. See the POSIX ispunct() and isalpha() functions and what they return. Less formally, when you learned and recited the alphabet in school, did it include "hyphen"? I rather doubt it :) Jonathan From westonruter at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 17:46:56 2010 From: westonruter at gmail.com (Weston Ruter) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:46:56 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: In English, a hyphen is a orthographic convention required when spelling various compound words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_compound#Hyphenated_compound_adjectives I imagine the Philippine language Robert is working with has a book name like "Apostle-Works" (i.e. Acts) On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Jonathan Marsden wrote: > Robert, > > On 9/29/2010 3:57 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > > > Oh! I guess I've been using hyphenated words in English since I learnt > > to write. I unthinkingly used it in the word "work-around" ... > > That does not make it a letter. It just makes it a symbol used during > writing. Letters are what make up the alphabet. The "-" in your word > work-around is not part of the English alphabet. It is not a letter in > English. It is punctuation. See the POSIX ispunct() and isalpha() > functions and what they return. Less formally, when you learned and > recited the alphabet in school, did it include "hyphen"? I rather doubt > it :) > > Jonathan > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -- Weston Ruter http://weston.ruter.net/ @westonruter - Google Profile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmarsden at fastmail.fm Wed Sep 29 18:30:39 2010 From: jmarsden at fastmail.fm (Jonathan Marsden) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:30:39 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <4CA3E83F.40600@fastmail.fm> On 9/29/2010 5:46 PM, Weston Ruter wrote: > In English, a hyphen is a orthographic convention required when > spelling various compound words: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_compound#Hyphenated_compound_adjectives Therefore, in English, it is not a letter. Q.E.D. (since someone on this list had recently said that it *was* a letter in English). > I imagine the Philippine language Robert is working with has a book > name like "Apostle-Works" (i.e. Acts) OK, that is indeed possible. So, the question remains: in that language, in that imagined/hypothetical context, is "-" a letter, or is it something else? My strong suspicion is that it is something else. That suspicion is based not just on my knowledge of English, but also on my knowledge of several POSIX locales and (to very varying degrees!) of Filipino languages, one of which I have preached in :) It has been stated here on the list, I think repeatedly, that in this language, "-" is a letter. Is that really correct? I think it is highly unlikely, as does Chris Little. Can we get this clarified one way or the other before proceeding any further, please? Do we need to define "letter" to reach agreement on this? Jonathan From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 18:43:35 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 14:43:35 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <4CA3EB47.30407@gmail.com> My apologies. I didn't expect such lectures on this list over picky definitions. :-( (As well as hyphenated names, consider the difference in meaning between English "prayer" and "pray-er". Or load the SWORD Tagalog Ang Biblia module [that's the Philippine national language] and look at 1 Peter 2:9 where the hyphen in the simple affixed word "pag-aaring" represents the glottal stop. Cebuano is/was the widest-spoken first-language in the Philippines spoken by tens of millions of people and although I can't see a Sword module for it, you will find a Cebuano Bible full of hyphens used in simple words [and for at least one BOOK NAME] -- see if you can find a page WITHOUT such a hyphen.) You might argue that that hyphen is not a "letter" in the strictest sense of the word (because it's not conventional to include it in alphabets), but it's certainly a word-building character representing a sound in many of the 170 languages in the Philippines and not just "little tribal" ones. If you look carefully, think you'll actually find that the hyphen is used in MANY major languages as a word-building character AS WELL AS a punctuation character despite the binary-only thinking of the Unicode people. I was trying to ask about a genuine need. (I think I also got the impression that Vietnamese and Hindi/Nepali have similar issues.) Thanks for your post, Troy. Yes, the hyphen is also used in such cases to represent ranges, but it seems that the context is fairly unambiguous there. :-) Going quiet now, Robert. From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 18:52:36 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:52:36 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have posted my replies in-line... > Hi Matthew, > > You can find the bible for Android that uses JSword at > http://code.google.com/p/and-bible/. There was another bible for Android > based on Sword called Bishop and it appears that Gary at CrossConnect has > continued development of that code and has a beta release but I don't > really > know much about that. > > I use an old G1 which is a very low spec mobile and it runs fine. I used > to > have Android 1.6 but upgraded to 2.2 and both versions were fine. The > bible > has not yet been put on App Market so that is why you can't find it there. > > It would be useful if you could give feedback regarding how the Chinese > bibles work on the Android bible s/w. I did install a Chinese module but > can't read Chinese. Also if you do some testing on and-bible can you raise > (or fix) any issues. > Thanks very much, I will try that asap. I can certainly test and-bible and try out the Chinese text. I am familiar with some basic coding, but I don't think I could fix any issues. I do have a question regarding the Chinese text used in the Sword Project over all, however. I am curious where you got the text, because there are some anomalies in it. For instance, a very common character (means 'have') - ? - always shows up as a similar looking, but entirely different character - ?. This character shows up probably at least once every other sentence, at least, and sometimes more than once per sentence. Never (say using Xiphos or BibleTime) have I seen the correct character in the text. When I copy/paste (for developing messages or teaching material...), I always first paste the text into Gedit or a different program, and do a find/replace for that character, and any other that might be a problem. That one character is the most frequent. Another issue is with the Simplified Character CUV (the text I am referring to, called in the repositories CUVS), that there are a few characters that still show up as their complex forms, instead of simplified. I am curious as to where you got the text you use. Actually, your text is not the only one like that. Other software seems to use the same Chinese text. I previously figured someone swapped out the two characters above due to visual restraints since the only thing missing is the two bars inside, but no other characters have had that done to them. (The character that the text uses, actually occurs nowhere in the Chinese Bible itself, so it is easy to always read the "?" as a "?" - but obviously that is not the best option.) Some people contribute ui translations to and-bible by translating > strings.xml and arrays.xml. Thomas has proposed doing a translation of all > languages using a Google tool but I don't know how well the Google tool > would handle Chinese, so it would be good to have a manual translation of > the ui in Chinese. > I'll look into that. I have done some of that with my company's website, for the Drupal theme that I use - there was oddly no Chinese translation for the theme I preferred... > > There does not seem to be a Mongolian bible available on CrossWire but you > may be able to help out in that respect. There are a few comments > regarding > a potential Mongolian bible here: > http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Module_Requests. It would be great to have > a > Mongolian bible available for download so that could be an area you could > help out. David Haslam seems to have looked into this. > I will comment more on the question below, but to directly address your question... I know a young man who a few years ago was living in Mongolia at the same time as I was, and claimed that they had developed a sword module for the main Mongolian translation in use, the one linked to in the link above. But that was some 5 or more years ago now, and nothing has shown up in the repositories, so I have no idea what happened. He seemed to think at the time that one was going to be available soon, but I don't know what the deal was with that, and I have lost all contact with him. > > Best regards > Martin > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 05:57:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Haslam > To: sword-devel at crosswire.org > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end > Message-ID: <1285765069269-2718944.post at n4.nabble.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Matthew, > > I would suggest you subscribe to the CrossWire mailing list called > mobile-devel. > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-devel > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-devel > > Martin Denham is developing the SWORD front-end for the Android OS. > >From what I read in the emails, this is coming along fine. > > Thanks, will do that. :) > We already have good contacts for Chinese Bible translations. > > Do you have any suitable contact for Mongolian Bible translation[s]? > e.g. Whereby CrossWire could begin to discuss permissions with the > copyright > owners. > I am actually one of the translators for a Mongolian translation team that is going from the KJ/TR/Mas texts into Mongolian, however, it is a slow progress. I am quite sure though, that once we are ready for it, we would gladly help get it together into a Sword module. :) I do mean slow progress, though. Only several books of the NT have been finished, and only one is polished to the extent that it can be put out. > What can you tell us about the debate about the terminology used to > translate certain terms into Mongolian? > e.g. The preferred words to translate, "the Almighty", etc. > > David > Did you really have to open *that* can of worms?! :) You must be aware, then of some of the issues. I won't get into them all here - not the place for it, of course - but long story short, when I went to Mongolian first (2000), I was under the impression that large groups of people were using Buddha's name to refer to God. That idea was propagated by a well meaning but very bitter translator, who has pushed that idea very hard. Unfortunately, there is a lot of pride and feelings attached to this whole thing, and it has been a big mess. Lesson learned however, to never just believe the reports I hear without personally investigating it... After serious language and culture study, I and a number of other men working there eventually realized that the word in question was not by any means Buddha's name, and is in fact the closest thing to a generic word 'god' that exists in the language. The big issue is between a very dynamic equivalent paraphrase (they say they are reworking it into more of a translation at present), and a more formally equivalent version from the ASV, which uses what the first group considers to be Buddha's name in place of "God" (the version linked to in your module requests link). The word is in fact a very appropriate word for "god", either capital 'G', or little 'g', but the heated discussions continue. Alas! To demonstrate (we discovered in fact that they never use the word as Buddha's actual name, but only if they are speaking about Buddha *as a god*) how the word is used, they use the word ('burkhan', if you're interested - ??????) to refer to any foreign 'god' in direct opposition to Buddha. By the way, the word, as far as we can tell (we have access to the best historians and Mongolists in the country, as well as sources in Inner Mongolia), the word predates Buddhism (although the other 'faction' claims it just stems from an earlier excursion of Buddhism, or from Sanskrit via Tibetan) in Mongolia. In fact, the word shows up as a generic term for 'god' in most of the eastern Siberian languages as well, which never had connection with Buddhism when this fact was first known and written about in the 1800s. Of course, when you refer to "God" in Mongolian, unless the context is clear - which is easy, actually - a Mongol might first think you were referring to Buddha, as that is who they think of as god - the average Buddhist is unconcerned with the philosophical differences between a "buddha" and a "god". An educated Mongolian Buddhist will tell you that Buddha is in fact * not* a "burkhan" at all. However, this is the same as if a Muslim thinks of Allah, when you use the word 'god', and similar to the fact that if you try to talk to your average American college student about God, he/she has no idea of the Biblical concept of who God really is. This all comes with teaching, and there is no way to find a term in any language that automatically describes the God of the Bible. "God" in English only describes the true God, as we associate the generic term with the knowledge we have from His Word. One Hindu who uses the word 'god' in English, is not referring to the same god as his neighboring Hindu, who prefers to believe in another one of the huge pantheon of 'gods' available to him. The trick is in translation, where a verse might say "our God is not like unto their gods". The Hebrew behind this is the same word in both cases as well. If you believe like I do, that the Bible is inspired of God, then you have God Himself using one word (the same in Greek, by the way, to refer to both. The comparison seems to be important to Him, and with any type of formally equivalent translation, you need a generic term, not a descriptive term. In fact, the other group there has not actually fixed the problem they think they are addressing, because the new name they have given to God, has just been accepted as another "burkhan" into the pantheon! The direct opposition to the other "burkhans" created when you tell them that there is only one true "Burkhan", that one the Bible talks about, goes the farthest toward combating the syncretism prevalent there, and I wonder if the principle doesn't hold true everywhere. Syncretism is a problem inherent in the Mongolian culture: it does not stem from the terms used by the Christians and the Bible translation most of them use. This is an important distinction. The same follows for a lot of terminology in question here. Just because a term is used by the Buddhists does not necessarily make it a Buddhist term. Don't get me wrong, there are many exclusively Buddhist terms, and we refuse to use them. However, I don't want to always translate "pray" as "talk with God" - for a number of reasons, one is that it lessons the concept - and there is a good Mongolian word that works for that. Finally (I have gone too long already), we have found that when in personal conversation with a Mongolian non-believer, if we use the phrase "Lord God" in Mongolian, there is never any confusion. No such title is *ever* used for Buddha, and the Mongols know immediately that we are not talking Buddhist concepts. Thanks for your concern and question. > > > Von: "Peter von Kaehne" > > So, the ability to download and use a font even just for AndBible without > > starting to think about rooting would be brilliant. > > I would think this would also be of interest to people wanting to use > original language texts. > > Peter > Diddos to that one. Does anyone know if better font support is in fact coming soon for Android? Thanks, Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 19:06:17 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:06:17 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] using Google translate or machine translation Message-ID: > > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:11:38 +0300 > From: Caleb Maclennan > To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" > > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 15:53, Martin Denham wrote: > >... has proposed doing a translation of all languages using a Google tool > > but I don't know how well the Google tool would handle Chinese > > I haven't seen the original discussion context that this comment > references, but having had some experience in the area of translated > software I wanted to make a comment about the viability of machine > translation for software interfaces: > > Forget about how well it handles or doesn't handle Chinese -- for > which there is undoubtedly a large corpus of documents and hand fixed > translations to at least give it a fighting chance -- but this is a > crazy idea for many minority languages more recently introduced to the > world of machine translation. I've seen some software interfaces that > were obviously done this way and they are the subject of nothing but > ridicule even if the base software might have been a good thing. > > I love Google Translate and their various language tools, but let's > put the effort into finding local translators before throwing software > out there! > > Caleb > Caleb is exactly correct here. As useful as some of these tools are under limited circumstances, they cannot substitute human translation. There is just too big an element of language that does not conform to logical patterns. There are logical patterns in language, which allows language to work in the first place, but much of language then works outside of these bounds, creating a nightmare for trying to machine translate anything - all the hype not withstanding... Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 19:09:55 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:09:55 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] using Google translate or machine translation Message-ID: > > > On 29/09/10 23:11, Caleb Maclennan wrote: > > I love Google Translate and their various language tools, but let's > > put the effort into finding local translators before throwing software > > out there! > > Caleb, I agree and disagree at the same time. > > I am at this now for several years - a fair number of translations > across the board in CrossWire in various languages are mine, inspired by > me or mentored by me. > > There is an enormous power in a bad translation - it draws out guys who > would never dream of doing something. Several translations we have and > many many imporvements would never have come about if we had not > presented a rough and ready "mock-up" > > With this in mind I am committing right now a google translated entire > translation for Xiphos in Arabic. I am fed up to the core that we do not > have an Arabic translation, I have tried to recruit translators for the > language for 5 years and now I will make some people shame faced and > steaming with anger when they see the poor translation. And - hopefully > - next release we will have a nice one.... > > Peter > > Hahaha. You know, I believe you may have a point there! :) Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmsmith at crosswire.org Wed Sep 29 19:13:08 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 22:13:08 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5DB5965A-2F05-407F-AE8E-0D1D7D6B6525@crosswire.org> I've read the thread and I'd like to add my thoughts: I don't think the discussion regarding whether - is a letter is constructive. We have a problem to solve. Right now - is a meta-character indicating a range. I think we should extend the book name parser to work with Bible book names as they occur in other languages and may be input into our front-ends. This includes -, non-arabic digits (I think thats what 0-9 are called?) and things like ' that if I understand it are representative for things like clicks, whistles or glottal stops. In the case of JSword, it is a tough problem. We split the input into a token stream. The splitting is relatively naive and does split on -. I've thought about how I'd fix it and I have not found a good solution. One edge case that is allowed is Gen-Exo. Which is everything from the beginning of Genesis to the end of Exodus. My thought is to take the book names (also abbreviations and alternates) for English, the user's locale and the language of the module and build a trie. Then a given input is analyzed against the trie for the longest matching prefix. As long as the next char is found in the trie we keep going. If the next "char" is not in the trie and is a letter then we have an error. If it is not a letter we take the match and using the trie find all the matches with that prefix. Disambiguation is handled in the usual way. In SWORD, it'd be easy to knit this kind of recognizer into the parser. As to numbers, I'd suggest using an ICU number shaper to map all numeric values in an input into 0-9. We do this in JSword for Arabic and Farsi and it works quite well. Regarding OSIS, it is a fixed dictionary of internal names for all books. They are not meant to be shown to users, even though many would have no problem understanding them. And regarding OSIS, we subject osisRefs and osisIDs to the same parser. I think there should be a separate parser, which would be very simple, that would parse it into our internal form. If the reference comes out of an OSIS encoded Bible, then we could have a great gain. Here's the rub, someone has to step up and tackle it. The code for SWORD is all tucked into a single method. In JSword, it is spread out into a finite state automata that is hard to change. It will just have to be replaced. In Him, DM On Sep 29, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > New Zealand. > > Hello all, > > I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know if this is not the right forum to ask questions. > > I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the alphabet and appears in several book names! > > Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested work-around. > > Thanks, > Robert. > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From kenneth.arnold at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 21:07:58 2010 From: kenneth.arnold at gmail.com (Kenneth Arnold) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:07:58 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Python In-Reply-To: <4CA3B031.2060002@gmail.com> References: <4CA3B031.2060002@gmail.com> Message-ID: The primary (and officially supported) way to access SWORD modules from Python is the SWIG wrappers, located in sword/bindings/swig in the SWORD source. BPBible uses them (afaik), but there should be some more self-contained examples... Not finding any good examples, a few years ago I went off, figured out the ztext file format, and wrote my own parser in Python. It's the blog post that shows up when googling "sword python". But I agree with how Troy responded at the time: this should never be officially supported or encouraged. While my trivial re-implementation may be useful for someone wanting to develop new book file formats, my time would have been better spent improving the official Python API or its documentation. In short, I'm sorry I didn't write that example code a long time ago. -Ken PS - After posting that work, I wrote: My heart was definitely running away from God when I was working on this, as I realized right after getting up from the computer. It's sad how much I can be doing "Godly" things and have such a stubborn heart. It's why I need a living Savior ... to save me from my "righteousness"! :) And it doesn't help my battle with my pride and self-directedness to praise my "skills" and "talent". On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > Dear all, > > ? ?I see that the page http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:Code_Examples > has a heading for "Python" but no sample code there, and a site search for > Python didn't find anything helpful. > > ? ?It seems from emails flashing by that Python bindings for SWORD are > available??? Is there any documentation or help to get started? > > ? ?(I haven't actually found out where to find any of the SWORD code yet, so > maybe there's documentation there???) > > Thanks, > Robert. > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 22:00:55 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:00:55 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Making module and conf file Message-ID: <4CA41987.8020106@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kalemas at mail.ru Wed Sep 29 23:47:58 2010 From: kalemas at mail.ru (=?koi8-r?B?68/T1NEgySDhzKPOwSDtwdPMwMs=?=) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:47:58 +0400 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings In-Reply-To: <4CA39FB9.3010504@crosswire.org> References: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> <4CA39FB9.3010504@crosswire.org> Message-ID: What do you mean? As i know there is no mapping between v11ns in Sword. Chris Little ?????(?) ? ????? ?????? Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:21:13 +0400: > This has been available (in SVN) for a year. From niccarter at mac.com Thu Sep 30 00:58:10 2010 From: niccarter at mac.com (Nic Carter) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:58:10 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Making module and conf file In-Reply-To: <4CA41987.8020106@gmail.com> References: <4CA41987.8020106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2496D65F-13B9-4853-AA72-F12F5F9623A3@mac.com> Hi Robert, I'm no modules expert, but I have a nice little pic I did for someone a few months ago with the structure of a module. http://crosswire.org/pocketsword/img/module-zip-structure.png take a look and see if that helps? Note that the folders may be named differently, but the "modules" and "mods.d" folders are always named the same and should be on the same folder level as each other. Hope that helps! ybic nic... :) ---- Nic Carter PocketSword Developer - an iPhone Bible Study app www: http://crosswire.org/pocketsword iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/app/Pocketsword/id341046078 Twitter: http://twitter.com/pocketsword On 30/09/2010, at 3:00 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > I've had fun with a USFM New Testament, converted it to OSIS using the Perl script and then to a module using osis2mod. So far, so good... > > However, I can't get Xiphos (on Ubuntu) to recognize either the compressed or uncompressed module when I add a local folder name and then choose it. The Modules Install/Update tab remains totally blank. I suspect my conf file is the problem -- either the placement of it or the contents of it. > > I'm trying to follow instructions in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:confFiles. > 1/ Should the config file be placed in the same folder as the .bz* files? (I can't see that the wiki tells me where to put the file.) > > 2/ Does the DataPath directive indicate where to *find* the module files (relative to the conf file), or where to *put* them? > > 3/ Would you expect me be able to navigate in the Xiphos Module Manager to any old local folder where I created my module (like I'm trying to do), or do I manually have to copy my module into .sword/modules/texts/ztext/? > > 4/ Can you see anything wrong/missing in my skeletal matigsalug.conf file -- this is the one for the compressed module: > [Matigsalug] > DataPath=.modules/text/ztext/matigsalug/ > Description=Matigsalug Scriptures > ModDrv=zText > CompressType=ZIP > BlockType=BOOK > Direction=LtoR > SourceType=OSIS > Encoding=UTF-8 > Abbreviation=MBTV > Version=0.9 > Category=Biblical Texts > LCSH=Bible. > Lang=mbt > 5/ Is there something else I could be doing wrong? I'm sure it's probably something very simple. :-) > > Thanks, > Robert. > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 01:15:42 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:15:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3B8EF.9030207@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3B8EF.9030207@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <1285834542245-2720350.post@n4.nabble.com> Chris, So is the problem that these languages generally have U+002D (hyphen/minus) originating from an easy to type workaround for normal keyboards (even going back to mechanical typewriters!), and that everyone got used to doing this? If so, what would the SWORD API do with U+2010 (General punctuation block - HYPHEN), if all instances where U+002D had been used as a letter were replaced by U+2010 ? Or is there an even more suitable alternative codepoint somewhere in another block of the BMP ? PS. For parsing booknames, what does the API do with figure dash U+2012 and ndash U+2013 ? David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Hyphens-in-book-names-tp2719769p2720350.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 30 01:25:59 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:25:59 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Making module and conf file In-Reply-To: <4CA41987.8020106@gmail.com> References: <4CA41987.8020106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA44997.3020002@gmx.net> On 30/09/10 06:00, Robert Hunt wrote: > 1/ Should the config file be placed in the same folder as the .bz* > files? (I can't see that the wiki tells me where to put the file.) You have seen Nic's suggested structure. > > 2/ Does the DataPath directive indicate where to *find* the module > files (relative to the conf file), or where to *put* them? where to find them. > > 3/ Would you expect me be able to navigate in the Xiphos Module > Manager to any old local folder where I created my module (like I'm > trying to do), or do I manually have to copy my module into > .sword/modules/texts/ztext/? libsword will find a lot of modules more or less automatically as long as they follow a normal layout. so ~/.sword, ~/.Sword, ~/Sword, /usr/local/share/sword etc etc 9and many more) are all valid locations. If you copy your module there it should find it. You can also tell libsword where to find more. But copying into a standard location is the best solution. the conf file looks reasonable at a glance. Peter From hunt.robertj at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 01:32:36 2010 From: hunt.robertj at gmail.com (Robert Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:32:36 +1300 Subject: [sword-devel] Making module and conf file In-Reply-To: <2496D65F-13B9-4853-AA72-F12F5F9623A3@mac.com> References: <4CA41987.8020106@gmail.com> <2496D65F-13B9-4853-AA72-F12F5F9623A3@mac.com> Message-ID: <4CA44B24.2020806@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 01:56:31 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Differences between SWORD & JSword ? Message-ID: <1285836991849-2720406.post@n4.nabble.com> Is there a list or table anywhere that describes the significant differences (key features implemented or not) between SWORD and JSword? If not, would this be something useful to be added to the developers' wiki ? Might this be a further stimulus for Java programmers to come forward and help bring JSword up to being as close as possible to SWORD? David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Differences-between-SWORD-JSword-tp2720406p2720406.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From caleb at alerque.com Thu Sep 30 01:59:26 2010 From: caleb at alerque.com (Caleb Maclennan) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:59:26 +0300 Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: <4CA3BE36.3050404@gmx.net> References: <4CA3BE36.3050404@gmx.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 01:31, Peter von Kaehne wrote: > On 29/09/10 23:11, Caleb Maclennan wrote: >> I love Google Translate and their various language tools, but let's >> put the effort into finding local translators before throwing software >> out there! > > Caleb, I agree and disagree at the same time. > > I am at this now for several years - a fair number of translations > across the board in CrossWire in various languages are mine, inspired by > me or mentored by me. > > There is an enormous power in a bad translation - it draws out guys who > would never dream of doing something. Several translations we have and > many many imporvements would never have come about if we had not > presented a rough and ready "mock-up" > > With this in mind I am committing right now a google translated entire > translation for Xiphos in Arabic. I am fed up to the core that we do not > have an Arabic translation, I have tried to recruit translators for the > language for 5 years and now I will make some people shame faced and > steaming with anger when they see the poor translation. And - hopefully > - next release we will have a nice one.... > > Peter Hey Peter, I'm sorry if my posted sounded critical of work that HAS gone into getting Xiphos and other sword projects localized. I do appreciate, and thank you for your efforts. I hear your frustration with not being able to get translations and think think there is something to be said for your argument. I don't sustain an objection to posting machine translations is a way to attract real translations, but because of the general embarrassment that they are I would suggest they be tagged as such. Translated languages, untranslated languages and machine translated draft languages or something like that. Also, I'm wondering if the entry barrier could be lowered a little bit for would be translators. The Xiphos website section on translating yammers on about ide's and po files and there are all these hash marks and other funky symbols. How do you think that makes average Joe or Mustafa or ????? feel? Ya not too comfortable. I spend most of my day in vim writing shell scripts, so it doesn't phase me but I know I would have a hard time getting any of my Turkish speaking friends to give us a translation by sending them to that page. I see Xiphos has some translation stuff setup on launchpad. Can we perhaps tweak the website so it walks people through getting setup to translate there? I feel like anybody who knows what a po file is can figure out how to deal with them on their own. I'm sorry I don't speak Arabic but I'll keep my eyes open for somebody to help with that translation! Caleb From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 02:20:24 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3DA8C.3050009@fastmail.fm> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA3DA8C.3050009@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <1285838424972-2720443.post@n4.nabble.com> There are 28 letters in the modern Filipino alphabet. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_alphabet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_alphabet The modern Filipino alphabet may be used as the alphabet for all autochthonous languages of the Philippines. Whence the hyphen then? Is it an archaism? David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Hyphens-in-book-names-tp2719769p2720443.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From admin at remza.co.uk Thu Sep 30 02:24:26 2010 From: admin at remza.co.uk (David Hollands) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:24:26 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: My two pence.. feel free to ignore. * OSIS -> XSLT -> XHTML is unnecessarily complicated. * Indeed, it is easy enough to get the raw text. If you still prefer to convert raw text to OSIS first, given an XML parser/sequencer and a DOM, the programming language (Java) is all you need to produce the output (HTML). Personally, I've found using XSLT/XPath a bit cumbersome. Love in Christ, David On 1 September 2010 18:23, DM Smith wrote: > ?On 09/01/2010 12:48 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: >> >> Can the html rendering in JSword be simplified? > > I'm not sure what you mean by simplified? Do you mean the process or the > output? > > The process is basically this: > Get the verses from the module. > Convert them to OSIS. (For modules already in OSIS this is almost a > pass-through) > Use xslt to convert the OSIS into xhtml. > > The output is the final step. Another stylesheet can be used to simplify the > output. > > Alternatively, one can create another mechanism to convert the raw text into > html. It is easy enough to get the raw text. > > > In Him, > ? ?DM > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 30 02:34:21 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:34:21 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] question regarding Android front end In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3BE36.3050404@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20100930093421.25060@gmx.net> > Von: Caleb Maclennan > I see Xiphos has some translation stuff setup on launchpad. Can we > perhaps tweak the website so it walks people through getting setup to > translate there? I feel like anybody who knows what a po file is can > figure out how to deal with them on their own. The trouble is, people who will not understand po files as a concept at least will also (per experience) produce under par translations, unless you sit next to them and discuss every step. I have done all kinds of things with xiphos translators, but unless you have someone who is more or less well versed in software development stuff (and most of our translators are at least somewhat) then creating a translation which is actually better than a machine translation is very hard work - not just for the translator but also for the person holding their hand. And Launchpad changes nothing in that equation. I see no reason why we should not direct people also to Launchpad, but TBH i do not expect much fruit from making it technically easy to translate - the problem is the content which throws people who are not technically minded. Peter -- Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/demail From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 02:46:17 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C43E.2060606@gmail.com> <4CA3DCF8.6090100@fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <1285839977129-2720471.post@n4.nabble.com> See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphen#Hyphens_in_computing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphen#Hyphens_in_computing David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Hyphens-in-book-names-tp2719769p2720471.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 03:04:15 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:04:15 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] and-bible on Android Message-ID: I tried out the and-bible, like suggested. It seems to work, and work pretty fast. I extracted the extra files (creating the jsword directory on my SD card), and they opened up just fine. However, I tried to download some more Bibles, using the program. For starters, I downloaded the KJV module. When I opened up the downloader in the program it spun for a minute, which I figured was it trying to connect to the repository. It eventually showed up and I downloaded it. Next up for the TR 1550 module. It said it was downloading and then "quit unexpectedly", with a "force quit" button. I browsed to the modules on the SD card, and seeing that they are the normal *.bz modules, I just copied them over from my laptop into the proper ./ztext/modules/... folder, but the program then didn't see them. I then tried the download process again, but all I got was the spinning icon that kept spinning and wouldn't shut down. I got it closed, but then I had the unexpected behavior that when ever I would open and try to close the program after that, when I hit the return button, it automatically put me back into the download module window, spinning icon and all. I finally remembered the *.conf files and copied them over also from my laptop into the proper folder, re-installed, and now it is working fine. It runs noticeably faster than the OliveTree Bible software, and it looks much nicer too. One issue I noticed is that the Hebrew module included in the SDcard zip file that I first downloaded only shows me boxes and no characters. Is there a reason for this? Do I need a Hebrew keyboard installed? Thanks for the work. I look forward to exploring it further. There doesn't seem to be much documentation on the site there to explain installation. For instance that it is even possible to copy your modules and .conf files directly onto your SD card and have them show up in and-bible... Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 05:03:14 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 05:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] and-bible on Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1285848194624-2720583.post@n4.nabble.com> Matthew, Please use the mobile-devel mailing list for issues relating to the And-Bible. It is much more active in that mailing list than in the general list sword-devel. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-and-bible-on-Android-tp2720495p2720583.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 06:24:16 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 06:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese PinYin, OSIS, SWORD and front-ends Message-ID: <1285853056584-2720727.post@n4.nabble.com> This question is first addressed to the experts on OSIS markup, though it will also be of interest to front-end & SWORD/JSword developers. Suppose we had a Chinese Bible module and wanted to include inline http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_Yin Pinyin pronunciation markup for every ideogram, as an aid [say] to those learning the language. This is worth pursuing, especially as Pinyin can be used for other languages besides Mandarin Chinese. What would be the recommended method to do this? One of my contacts wrote to me recently, Please take note that many Chinese words contains more than one phonetic sound and multiple meanings, the website I used to get the thing done (PinYin) is claiming 98% accuracy. If you have friends need to do other Chinese PinYin Bible I would be able to explain how to overcome the behaviour/weaknesses of the website http://py.kdd.cc/ http://py.kdd.cc/ He also provided the following text file contents ... (lightly reformated) The following Chinese characters were missing from the database of http://py.kdd.cc/ http://py.kdd.cc/ ?(gui1) ?(ju3) ?(zheng1) ?(chao3) ?(nao4) ?(yuan4) ?(nang2) ?(xuan1) ?(rang3) ?(chang2) ?(wa1) We've managed to overcome this by marking the missing character(s) and then using a hard copy dictionary to get the correct HanYuPinYin. ---- The next question is addressed to both front-end developers and SWORD engine programmers One obvious way would be to have a separate SWORD module for the edition that is enhanced with Pinyin. Yet a more attractive idea would be to enhance the SWORD API such that Pinyin markup could be switched on or off as required, thus providing the possibility of only having one module to maintain. Then each front-end could eventually be enhanced to include a menu view option to Show/Hide Pinyin, just like they do for several other types of inline markup such as Strongs, etc. The method used to display the inline Pinyin could be at the discretion of the front-end developers. They might wish to use [say] superscripts in a different color than we use for other types of inline markup. Finally, as there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese character and its Pinyin transliteration, this suggests the possibility that the Pinyin lookup could be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not necessitating any inline OSIS markup within the module. Do these ideas and questions make good sense? Yours in Christ's service, David Haslam -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Chinese-PinYin-OSIS-SWORD-and-front-ends-tp2720727p2720727.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 30 06:35:42 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:35:42 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese PinYin, OSIS, SWORD and front-ends In-Reply-To: <1285853056584-2720727.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1285853056584-2720727.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <20100930133542.25040@gmx.net> I think the answer to your question is Ruby markup Peter -- Neu: GMX De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/demail From dhowens at pmbx.net Thu Sep 30 06:47:21 2010 From: dhowens at pmbx.net (Daniel Owens) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:47:21 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3C0DF.10502@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C0DF.10502@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA494E9.6090200@pmbx.net> On 09/29/2010 05:42 PM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > I do have a question to the original poster (and regarding Vietnamese). > > Do you also use '-' in ranges or do you use another character? This > might introduce localized logic differences to the parser, not simply > localization strings. > > Troy Vietnamese speakers do use a hyphen for ranges, I believe. Daniel From dmsmith at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 06:52:38 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:52:38 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Differences between SWORD & JSword ? In-Reply-To: <1285836991849-2720406.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1285836991849-2720406.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4CA49626.2040606@crosswire.org> On 09/30/2010 04:56 AM, David Haslam wrote: > Is there a list or table anywhere that describes the significant differences > (key features implemented or not) between SWORD and JSword? Not that I'm aware of. JSword takes the approach, for good or for bad, that the module reading and reference recognition are the key points at which the two need to be compatible. Regarding reference recognition, the implementation is different and there by will have minor differences, typically relating to abbreviations. JSword does not use SWORD's Bible names files, nor the ordering that is in them. Rather for disambiguation, it favors NT over OT and w/in a testament earlier book names rather than later book names. Thus J will resolve to John. Regarding modules, it does not support writing of any module or reading of av11n modules. Otherwise, it is complete, afaik. > If not, would this be something useful to be added to the developers' wiki ? I'm not sure that it would be helpful. JSword was started as a port, but before I got on board, it had become a reimplementation with a different design. > Might this be a further stimulus for Java programmers to come forward and > help bring JSword up to being as close as possible to SWORD? > > David > > From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 06:53:20 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 21:53:20 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese pinyin Message-ID: > > > Matthew, > > Please use the mobile-devel mailing list for issues relating to the > And-Bible. > > It is much more active in that mailing list than in the general list > sword-devel. > > David > Ah, sorry about that. > This question is first addressed to the experts on OSIS markup, though it > will also be of interest to front-end & SWORD/JSword developers. > > Suppose we had a Chinese Bible module and wanted to include inline > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_Yin Pinyin pronunciation markup for > every > ideogram, as an aid [say] to those learning the language. This is worth > pursuing, especially as Pinyin can be used for other languages besides > Mandarin Chinese. > > What would be the recommended method to do this? > > One of my contacts wrote to me recently, > > Please take note that many Chinese words contains more than one phonetic > sound and multiple meanings, the website I used to get the thing done > (PinYin) is claiming 98% accuracy. If you have friends need to do other > Chinese PinYin Bible I would be able to explain how to overcome the > behaviour/weaknesses of the website http://py.kdd.cc/ http://py.kdd.cc/ > > He also provided the following text file contents ... (lightly reformated) > > The following Chinese characters were missing from the database of > http://py.kdd.cc/ http://py.kdd.cc/ > > ?(gui1) > ?(ju3) > ?(zheng1) > ?(chao3) > ?(nao4) > ?(yuan4) > ?(nang2) > ?(xuan1) > ?(rang3) > ?(chang2) > ?(wa1) > > We've managed to overcome this by marking the missing character(s) and then > using a hard copy dictionary to get the correct HanYuPinYin. > > ---- > > The next question is addressed to both front-end developers and SWORD > engine > programmers > > One obvious way would be to have a separate SWORD module for the edition > that is enhanced with Pinyin. > > Yet a more attractive idea would be to enhance the SWORD API such that > Pinyin markup could be switched on or off as required, thus providing the > possibility of only having one module to maintain. > > Then each front-end could eventually be enhanced to include a menu view > option to Show/Hide Pinyin, just like they do for several other types of > inline markup such as Strongs, etc. > > The method used to display the inline Pinyin could be at the discretion of > the front-end developers. They might wish to use [say] superscripts in a > different color than we use for other types of inline markup. > > Finally, as there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese > character and its Pinyin transliteration, this suggests the possibility > that > the Pinyin lookup could be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not > necessitating any inline OSIS markup within the module. > > Do these ideas and questions make good sense? > > Yours in Christ's service, > David Haslam > > These ideas are absolutely great. That would be such a help. However, please bear in mind, as was mentioned earlier, there is only a one-to-one character to pinyin correspondence for *most* Chinese characters. Many - and many common ones - have more than one pronunciation, and more have more than one possible tone (even where the rest of the pinyin is the same). This would have to be carefully checked by hand. :( Maybe your contact has already done this? Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yighu at yahoo.com Thu Sep 30 07:05:35 2010 From: yighu at yahoo.com (Yiguang Hu) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 07:05:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <620954.43585.qm@web36105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Sep 25 08:00:05 2010 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 15:00:05 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "Finally, as there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese character and its Pinyin transliteration, this suggests the possibility that the Pinyin lookup could be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not necessitating any inline OSIS markup within the module." David, I don't think there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese character and its Pinyin transliteration. One Chinese character should be mapped to one pinyin. But one pinyin may be mapped to many Chinese character. Which Chinese character is mapped to for a given Pinyin depends on the context of where the Chinese character is used. In Him, Yiguang --0-401174830-1285855535=:43585 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
From David Haslam:
"Finally, as there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese
character and its Pinyin transliteration, this suggests the possibility that
the Pinyin lookup could be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not
necessitating any inline OSIS markup within the module."

David, I don't think there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese
character and its Pinyin transliteration. One Chinese character should be mapped to one pinyin.
But one pinyin may be mapped to many Chinese character. Which Chinese character is mapped to for a given Pinyin depends on the context of where the Chinese character is used.
In Him,
Yiguang



--0-401174830-1285855535=:43585-- From dmsmith at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 07:07:04 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:07:04 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA49988.5050507@crosswire.org> On 09/30/2010 05:24 AM, David Hollands wrote: > My two pence.. feel free to ignore. > > * OSIS -> XSLT -> XHTML is unnecessarily complicated. I'm interested in other ways that OSIS (xml in general) can be rendered. Some browsers (maybe all modern ones by now) are able to apply CSS directly to xml to produce output. Flying Saucer (https://xhtmlrenderer.dev.java.net/) looks promising to me as something that can be used by a Java program. > * Indeed, it is easy enough to get the raw text. If you still prefer > to convert raw text to OSIS first, given an XML parser/sequencer and a > DOM, the programming language (Java) is all you need to produce the > output (HTML). Personally, I've found using XSLT/XPath a bit > cumbersome. The biggest gain I see in using xslt is to have parameter driven output. E.g. the style of verse references, whether to show notes or not, .... The second gain is that it is simple, though it takes a bit of learning. The problem with raw text from an OSIS document is things like quotes, Words of Christ and Divine Name, i.e. Lord are marked up in such a way that they don't appear right in raw text. > Love in Christ, > > David > > > > On 1 September 2010 18:23, DM Smith wrote: >> On 09/01/2010 12:48 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: >>> Can the html rendering in JSword be simplified? >> I'm not sure what you mean by simplified? Do you mean the process or the >> output? >> >> The process is basically this: >> Get the verses from the module. >> Convert them to OSIS. (For modules already in OSIS this is almost a >> pass-through) >> Use xslt to convert the OSIS into xhtml. >> >> The output is the final step. Another stylesheet can be used to simplify the >> output. >> >> Alternatively, one can create another mechanism to convert the raw text into >> html. It is easy enough to get the raw text. >> >> >> In Him, >> DM >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 07:49:37 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:49:37 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <1285838424972-2720443.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA3DA8C.3050009@fastmail.fm> <1285838424972-2720443.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: All of this discussion about whether the hyphen is the proper character that should have been used or whether some holy, blessed POSIX/Unicode committee deemed - is valid for use as a letter or whether it can only be punctuation is probably interesting. But it's probably not interesting to Robert, who wants to know about his real world language. He says he was the translator for this language. Now, I don't know about his particular case, but many such Bible translators are working with languages which are completely unwritten at the time that they start. One of their early tasks is creating an alphabet of usable characters - distinct from the IPA they use professionally because of the difficulty of using these on a computer - and it sounds like Robert's translation team chose the hyphen character as one of these. You might disagree and want to roast him for that choice, but older English speakers might wish to do the same to us for inventing the W and J characters unnecessarily. I would hardly consider ' to be a letter, but in the native Hawaiian language it is a letter representing a glottal stop. For the language under discussion, - is a letter. Argue it how you want, condemn it how you want, or contribute to helping come up with a solution if you want. Valid solutions do not include "Ignore it", "Leave it out" or "Change your language's orthography to include something else instead." Opinions like that, within this arena, are completely unconstructive the same way telling Germans to stop using letters with an umlaut because they do not appear on an American keyboard or in the English alphabet would not be constructive. I suggested allowing the valid numerals, punctuation marks and range specifying characters to be localized. DM has proposed a more detailed implementation with similar ideas. So can we get off our high horses about Unicode and POSIX locale purity and constructively talk about implementing a solution that allows Robert to use his language's Bible in our software, or are we going to say "Sorry, we won't support your language because it uses unapproved Unicode characters as letters"? --Greg From DavidTroidl at aol.com Thu Sep 30 08:11:53 2010 From: DavidTroidl at aol.com (David Troidl) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:11:53 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> Hi Robert, There are many Unicode characters for hyphens and dashes. Could you substitute, for example, the hyphen from General Punctuation (‐)? This would give the proper appearance, without conflicting with the 'normal' hyphen separator. Peace, David On 9/29/2010 5:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > On 30/09/10 10:17, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his >> email, but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. >> >> You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the >> letter s in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it >> would be horrible usability and I probably wouldn't take such >> software seriously! >> > Exactly! >> >> Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and >> hyphen-like character would be a good solution? >> > Yes, I'm sure there's probably dozens of languages in the world that > are likely to have hyphens in book names. Even in English, hyphen is a > valid letter as you can see in the sentence above. (It's just > fortunate that it doesn't occur in book names. > > Surely this issue has come up many times before??? > > Robert. > >> On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" > > wrote: >> > >> > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> >> New Zealand. >> >> >> >> Hello all, >> >> >> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire >> >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know >> >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. >> >> >> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that >> >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the >> >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we >> >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the >> >> alphabet and appears in several book names! >> >> >> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >> >> work-around. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Robert. >> >> >> > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the >> > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still >> > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because >> > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of >> > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names >> still be >> > comprehensible without the hyphen? >> > >> > Daniel > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk Thu Sep 30 09:00:07 2010 From: d.haslam at ukonline.co.uk (David Haslam) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:00:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sword-devel] sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48 In-Reply-To: <620954.43585.qm@web36105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <620954.43585.qm@web36105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1285862407579-2721915.post@n4.nabble.com> Thanks for helpful clarification. The look-up concept I was trying to describe would always be unidirectional. (Ideogram => Pinyin) Although Pinyin can also be used as a text entry method, I did not consider that as a feature needed for any of the SWORD front-end applications. David -- View this message in context: http://sword-dev.350566.n4.nabble.com/Re-sword-devel-Digest-Vol-78-Issue-48-tp2720814p2721915.html Sent from the SWORD Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mjdenham at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 09:08:22 2010 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:08:22 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Android SWORD In-Reply-To: <4CA49988.5050507@crosswire.org> References: <4AD36B6F.6050302@crosswire.org> <1276086497638-2248754.post@n4.nabble.com> <4C145667.6020604@crosswire.org> <4C75FDE2.4030102@crosswire.org> <4C7E8C06.8030907@crosswire.org> <4CA49988.5050507@crosswire.org> Message-ID: Hi, I must confess that to make JSword perform a little better and due to lack of xslt support on early versions of Android I tweaked jsword OSIS processing so as to use OSIS XML -> SAX processor -> HTML. I thus removed jdom and xslt. I realise there are various arguments for using jdom and xslt but performance was my main driver on such small, low powered mobile phones. I may switch back to using xslt in the future because there is a lot of logic in the xslt stylesheet that was difficult to reproduce in SAX. Also, now, I think I may have been able to get xslt going on old Android s/w but am putting my effort into other areas. Jdom may add too much overhead for such intense processing on small devices although it works great on pcs. Best regards Martin On 30 September 2010 15:07, DM Smith wrote: > On 09/30/2010 05:24 AM, David Hollands wrote: > >> My two pence.. feel free to ignore. >> >> * OSIS -> XSLT -> XHTML is unnecessarily complicated. >> > I'm interested in other ways that OSIS (xml in general) can be rendered. > Some browsers (maybe all modern ones by now) are able to apply CSS directly > to xml to produce output. Flying Saucer ( > https://xhtmlrenderer.dev.java.net/) looks promising to me as something > that can be used by a Java program. > > > * Indeed, it is easy enough to get the raw text. If you still prefer >> to convert raw text to OSIS first, given an XML parser/sequencer and a >> DOM, the programming language (Java) is all you need to produce the >> output (HTML). Personally, I've found using XSLT/XPath a bit >> cumbersome. >> > > The biggest gain I see in using xslt is to have parameter driven output. > E.g. the style of verse references, whether to show notes or not, .... > > The second gain is that it is simple, though it takes a bit of learning. > > The problem with raw text from an OSIS document is things like quotes, > Words of Christ and Divine Name, i.e. Lord are marked up in such a way that > they don't appear right in raw text. > > > Love in Christ, >> >> David >> >> >> >> On 1 September 2010 18:23, DM Smith wrote: >> >>> On 09/01/2010 12:48 PM, Manfred Bergmann wrote: >>> >>>> Can the html rendering in JSword be simplified? >>>> >>> I'm not sure what you mean by simplified? Do you mean the process or the >>> output? >>> >>> The process is basically this: >>> Get the verses from the module. >>> Convert them to OSIS. (For modules already in OSIS this is almost a >>> pass-through) >>> Use xslt to convert the OSIS into xhtml. >>> >>> The output is the final step. Another stylesheet can be used to simplify >>> the >>> output. >>> >>> Alternatively, one can create another mechanism to convert the raw text >>> into >>> html. It is easy enough to get the raw text. >>> >>> >>> In Him, >>> DM >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leoso at usa.net Thu Sep 30 09:31:21 2010 From: leoso at usa.net (Leo So) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:31:21 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese Pinyin In-Reply-To: <620954.43585.qm@web36105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <620954.43585.qm@web36105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 1 Chinese character could be mapped to many pinyin, depending on its context (I.e. which phrase/word this character is part of). e.g. ? could be l?, yu?, y?o, lu?, li?o. E.g. Try the following link and paste the text of Romans 12:12 ??????????????????????in the first big Chinese text box, and click "Go" and watch out for the Mandarin column. You will find similar behavior for Yale/Jyutping (which are for Cantonese dialet) http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=chardict On that result page, click on the big ? on the 7th row and you will see all the possible pinyin combo for this character. Immanuel, leo. -- Leo So http://leo4jc.spaces.live.com The blind men came to Him, and Jesus said to them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" They said to him, "Yes, Lord." Then he touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done to you." And their eyes were opened. (Matt 9:28-30a) From: Yiguang Hu Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:05 AM To: sword-devel at crosswire.org Subject: Re: [sword-devel] sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48 From bogus@does.not.exist.com Sat Sep 25 08:00:05 2010 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 15:00:05 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: "Finally, as there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese character and its Pinyin transliteration, this suggests the possibility = that the Pinyin lookup could be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not necessitating any inline OSIS markup within the module." David, I don't think there is a one-to-one correspondance between each = Chinese character and its Pinyin transliteration. One Chinese character should = be mapped to one pinyin. But one pinyin may be mapped to many Chinese character. Which Chinese = character is mapped to for a given Pinyin depends on the context of = where the Chinese character is used. In Him, Yiguang -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- _______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01CB6082.3E5D2DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
1 Chinese character could be mapped to many = pinyin,=20 depending on its context (I.e. which phrase/word this character is part = of).=20 e.g. =E6=A8=82 could be l=C3=A8, yu=C3=A8, y=C3=A0o, lu=C3=B2, = li=C3=A1o.
 
E.g. Try the following link and paste the text = of Romans=20 12:12 = =E5=9C=A8=E6=8C=87=E6=9C=9B=E4=B8=AD=E8=A6=81=E5=96=9C=E6=A8=82=EF=BC=8C=E5= =9C=A8=E6=82=A3=E9=9B=A3=E4=B8=AD=E8=A6=81=E5=BF=8D=E8=80=90=EF=BC=8C=E7=A6= =B1=E5=91=8A=E8=A6=81=E6=81=86=E5=88=87=E3=80=82in the first big Chinese = text box, and click "Go"=20 and watch out for the Mandarin column. You will find similar behavior = for=20 Yale/Jyutping (which are for Cantonese dialet)
 
http:/= /www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=3Dchardict
 
On that result page, click on the big
 
=E6=A8=82 on the 7th row and = you will see=20 all the possible pinyin combo for this character.
 
Immanuel,
leo.
 
--
  Leo So <leoso at usa.net> http://leo4jc.spaces.live.com<= BR> =20 The blind men came to Him, and Jesus said to them, "Do you = believe
 =20 that I am able to do this?" They said to him, "Yes, Lord." Then = he
 =20 touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done = to
 =20 you." And their eyes were opened. (Matt 9:28-30a)
 
 

From: Yiguang Hu
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 7:05 AM
To: sword-devel at crosswire.org =
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] sword-devel Digest, Vol 78, Issue = 48

From David Haslam:
"Finally, as there is a one-to-one = correspondance=20 between each Chinese
character and = its Pinyin=20 transliteration, this suggests the possibility that
the Pinyin lookup = could=20 be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not
necessitating any = inline OSIS=20 markup within the module."

David,=20 I don't think there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese
character and = its Pinyin=20 transliteration. One Chinese character should be mapped to one = pinyin.
But=20 one pinyin may be mapped to many Chinese character. Which Chinese = character is=20 mapped to for a given Pinyin depends on the context of where the Chinese = character is used.
In = Him,
Yiguang



_______________________________________________
sword-devel = mailing=20 list:=20 sword-devel at crosswire.org
http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sw= ord-devel
Instructions=20 to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01CB6082.3E5D2DA0-- From dmsmith at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 09:52:57 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 12:52:57 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA4C069.1000101@crosswire.org> On 09/30/2010 11:11 AM, David Troidl wrote: > Hi Robert, > > There are many Unicode characters for hyphens and dashes. Could you > substitute, for example, the hyphen from General Punctuation > (‐)? This would give the proper appearance, without > conflicting with the 'normal' hyphen separator. I think this is at core a user input problem. Telling users that they have to use a special character that is not on their keyboard is a problem. I don't think it will do at all. If we parse the user input to figure out whether a hyphen is a range specifier or part of a name and if part of a name then substitute it with something else, then we should add that to the SWORD reference parser. > > Peace, > > David > > On 9/29/2010 5:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> On 30/09/10 10:17, Greg Hellings wrote: >>> >>> OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his >>> email, but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. >>> >>> You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the >>> letter s in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it >>> would be horrible usability and I probably wouldn't take such >>> software seriously! >>> >> Exactly! >>> >>> Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and >>> hyphen-like character would be a good solution? >>> >> Yes, I'm sure there's probably dozens of languages in the world that >> are likely to have hyphens in book names. Even in English, hyphen is >> a valid letter as you can see in the sentence above. (It's just >> fortunate that it doesn't occur in book names. >> >> Surely this issue has come up many times before??? >> >> Robert. >> >>> On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" >> > wrote: >>> > >>> > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >>> >> New Zealand. >>> >> >>> >> Hello all, >>> >> >>> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire >>> >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know >>> >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. >>> >> >>> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that >>> >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the >>> >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we >>> >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the >>> >> alphabet and appears in several book names! >>> >> >>> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >>> >> work-around. >>> >> >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> Robert. >>> >> >>> > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the >>> > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still >>> > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because >>> > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of >>> > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names >>> still be >>> > comprehensible without the hyphen? >>> > >>> > Daniel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhphx at cox.net Thu Sep 30 10:10:42 2010 From: jhphx at cox.net (jhphx) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:10:42 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> Message-ID: <4CA4C492.2060702@cox.net> Best practice and convention are important and pointing out why something breaks them is not just pedantic. Structure and order in these things helps leads to code and standards that are clear and efficient. It can however also lead to code and standards that are less flexible and usable in situations where life is messy. Software development that handles the messes of life produces a product that is powerful and interesting, but when it breaks best practice and convention to do so it may lead to confusion and complexity that hamper use and development. I thank God for the voices on both sides of this discussion. Jerry From westonruter at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 10:24:37 2010 From: westonruter at gmail.com (Weston Ruter) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:24:37 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA4C069.1000101@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> <4CA4C069.1000101@crosswire.org> Message-ID: I think the fundamental problem here is that the SWORD reference parser is too simple. Namely, the parser needs to not blindly split on a hyphen character but rather tokenize the input stream and contextually determine what each token is as it processes the tokens in sequence. For example, if I had the following passage span (assuming the language has "Apostle-Works" as the book name for "Acts"): Apostle-Works 4:32 - Romans 3:21 In this case, the parser would come across that first hyphen and could contextually determine it's not a passage span separator hyphen since the following token "Works" is not a recognized as a book, and also that "Apostle" is not a full book in itself but "Apostle-Works" is. Otherwise, there could be a pre-processor that does a first pass inspecting the token stream and replacing localized book name token sequences with their internal OSIS names and then just split on the hyphen as usual. Does that sound right? On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM, DM Smith wrote: > On 09/30/2010 11:11 AM, David Troidl wrote: > > Hi Robert, > > There are many Unicode characters for hyphens and dashes. Could you > substitute, for example, the hyphen from General Punctuation (‐)? > This would give the proper appearance, without conflicting with the 'normal' > hyphen separator. > > I think this is at core a user input problem. Telling users that they have > to use a special character that is not on their keyboard is a problem. I > don't think it will do at all. > > If we parse the user input to figure out whether a hyphen is a range > specifier or part of a name and if part of a name then substitute it with > something else, then we should add that to the SWORD reference parser. > > > > Peace, > > David > > On 9/29/2010 5:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > > On 30/09/10 10:17, Greg Hellings wrote: > > OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his email, > but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. > > You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the letter s > in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it would be horrible > usability and I probably wouldn't take such software seriously! > > Exactly! > > Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphen-like > character would be a good solution? > > Yes, I'm sure there's probably dozens of languages in the world that are > likely to have hyphens in book names. Even in English, hyphen is a valid > letter as you can see in the sentence above. (It's just fortunate that it > doesn't occur in book names. > > Surely this issue has come up many times before??? > > Robert. > > On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" wrote: > > > > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: > >> New Zealand. > >> > >> Hello all, > >> > >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire > >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know > >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. > >> > >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that > >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the > >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we > >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the > >> alphabet and appears in several book names! > >> > >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested > >> work-around. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Robert. > >> > > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the > > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still > > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because > > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of > > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be > > comprehensible without the hyphen? > > > > Daniel > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -- Weston Ruter http://weston.ruter.net/ @westonruter - Google Profile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmsmith at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 13:16:36 2010 From: dmsmith at crosswire.org (DM Smith) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 16:16:36 -0400 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> <4CA4C069.1000101@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA4F024.2080105@crosswire.org> It's not quite as simple as working with the fully spelled out names. SWORD allows other alternates as well. For example, perhaps the following would work just as well for Apostle-Works: A-W AW Wrks Wrk Wks Wk and any proper prefix of Apostle-Works that does not conflict with another books abbreviations: Apostle-Work Apostle-Wor Apostle-Wo Apostle-W Apostle- Apostle Apostl ... Ap How about prefixes on both sides of the dash? Ap-Works Apo-Works Ap-Wo How about abbreviations of just one side or the other: Apo-Wrks Apostle-Wrk A-Wks In Him, DM On 09/30/2010 01:24 PM, Weston Ruter wrote: > I think the fundamental problem here is that the SWORD reference > parser is too simple. Namely, the parser needs to not blindly split on > a hyphen character but rather tokenize the input stream and > contextually determine what each token is as it processes the tokens > in sequence. For example, if I had the following passage span > (assuming the language has "Apostle-Works" as the book name for "Acts"): > > Apostle-Works 4:32 - Romans 3:21 > > In this case, the parser would come across that first hyphen and could > contextually determine it's not a passage span separator hyphen since > the following token "Works" is not a recognized as a book, and also > that "Apostle" is not a full book in itself but "Apostle-Works" is. > Otherwise, there could be a pre-processor that does a first pass > inspecting the token stream and replacing localized book name token > sequences with their internal OSIS names and then just split on the > hyphen as usual. > > Does that sound right? > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM, DM Smith > wrote: > > On 09/30/2010 11:11 AM, David Troidl wrote: >> Hi Robert, >> >> There are many Unicode characters for hyphens and dashes. Could >> you substitute, for example, the hyphen from General Punctuation >> (‐)? This would give the proper appearance, without >> conflicting with the 'normal' hyphen separator. > I think this is at core a user input problem. Telling users that > they have to use a special character that is not on their keyboard > is a problem. I don't think it will do at all. > > If we parse the user input to figure out whether a hyphen is a > range specifier or part of a name and if part of a name then > substitute it with something else, then we should add that to the > SWORD reference parser. > > >> >> Peace, >> >> David >> >> On 9/29/2010 5:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >>> On 30/09/10 10:17, Greg Hellings wrote: >>>> >>>> OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of >>>> his email, but rather the original language where the hyphen is >>>> a letter. >>>> >>>> You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use >>>> the letter s in the Bible names list. It might be >>>> comprehensible but it would be horrible usability and I >>>> probably wouldn't take such software seriously! >>>> >>> Exactly! >>>> >>>> Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and >>>> hyphen-like character would be a good solution? >>>> >>> Yes, I'm sure there's probably dozens of languages in the world >>> that are likely to have hyphens in book names. Even in English, >>> hyphen is a valid letter as you can see in the sentence above. >>> (It's just fortunate that it doesn't occur in book names. >>> >>> Surely this issue has come up many times before??? >>> >>> Robert. >>> >>>> On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" >>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >>>> >> New Zealand. >>>> >> >>>> >> Hello all, >>>> >> >>>> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire >>>> >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let >>>> me know >>>> >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. >>>> >> >>>> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that >>>> >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them >>>> (because the >>>> >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language >>>> that we >>>> >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the >>>> >> alphabet and appears in several book names! >>>> >> >>>> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the >>>> suggested >>>> >> work-around. >>>> >> >>>> >> Thanks, >>>> >> Robert. >>>> >> >>>> > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to >>>> drop the >>>> > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still >>>> > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed >>>> because >>>> > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent >>>> "transliterations" of >>>> > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the >>>> names still be >>>> > comprehensible without the hyphen? >>>> > >>>> > Daniel >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list:sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > > -- > Weston Ruter > http://weston.ruter.net/ > @westonruter - Google Profile > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From westonruter at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:24:09 2010 From: westonruter at gmail.com (Weston Ruter) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:24:09 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA4F024.2080105@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> <4CA4C069.1000101@crosswire.org> <4CA4F024.2080105@crosswire.org> Message-ID: So there would have to be a tokenizer and parser that determines the meaning of the token based on context. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:16 PM, DM Smith wrote: > It's not quite as simple as working with the fully spelled out names. > SWORD allows other alternates as well. For example, perhaps the following > would work just as well for Apostle-Works: > A-W > AW > Wrks > Wrk > Wks > Wk > and any proper prefix of Apostle-Works that does not conflict with another > books abbreviations: > Apostle-Work > Apostle-Wor > Apostle-Wo > Apostle-W > Apostle- > Apostle > Apostl > ... > Ap > > How about prefixes on both sides of the dash? > Ap-Works > Apo-Works > Ap-Wo > > How about abbreviations of just one side or the other: > Apo-Wrks > Apostle-Wrk > A-Wks > > In Him, > DM > > > > On 09/30/2010 01:24 PM, Weston Ruter wrote: > > I think the fundamental problem here is that the SWORD reference parser is > too simple. Namely, the parser needs to not blindly split on a hyphen > character but rather tokenize the input stream and contextually determine > what each token is as it processes the tokens in sequence. For example, if I > had the following passage span (assuming the language has "Apostle-Works" as > the book name for "Acts"): > > Apostle-Works 4:32 - Romans 3:21 > > In this case, the parser would come across that first hyphen and could > contextually determine it's not a passage span separator hyphen since the > following token "Works" is not a recognized as a book, and also that > "Apostle" is not a full book in itself but "Apostle-Works" is. Otherwise, > there could be a pre-processor that does a first pass inspecting the token > stream and replacing localized book name token sequences with their internal > OSIS names and then just split on the hyphen as usual. > > Does that sound right? > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM, DM Smith wrote: > >> On 09/30/2010 11:11 AM, David Troidl wrote: >> >> Hi Robert, >> >> There are many Unicode characters for hyphens and dashes. Could you >> substitute, for example, the hyphen from General Punctuation (‐)? >> This would give the proper appearance, without conflicting with the 'normal' >> hyphen separator. >> >> I think this is at core a user input problem. Telling users that they >> have to use a special character that is not on their keyboard is a problem. >> I don't think it will do at all. >> >> If we parse the user input to figure out whether a hyphen is a range >> specifier or part of a name and if part of a name then substitute it with >> something else, then we should add that to the SWORD reference parser. >> >> >> >> Peace, >> >> David >> >> On 9/29/2010 5:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> >> On 30/09/10 10:17, Greg Hellings wrote: >> >> OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his email, >> but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. >> >> You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the letter s >> in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it would be horrible >> usability and I probably wouldn't take such software seriously! >> >> Exactly! >> >> Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphen-like >> character would be a good solution? >> >> Yes, I'm sure there's probably dozens of languages in the world that are >> likely to have hyphens in book names. Even in English, hyphen is a valid >> letter as you can see in the sentence above. (It's just fortunate that it >> doesn't occur in book names. >> >> Surely this issue has come up many times before??? >> >> Robert. >> >> On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" wrote: >> > >> > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >> >> New Zealand. >> >> >> >> Hello all, >> >> >> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire >> >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know >> >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. >> >> >> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that >> >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the >> >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we >> >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the >> >> alphabet and appears in several book names! >> >> >> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >> >> work-around. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Robert. >> >> >> > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the >> > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still >> > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because >> > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of >> > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be >> > comprehensible without the hyphen? >> > >> > Daniel >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > > > -- > Weston Ruter > http://weston.ruter.net/ > @westonruter - Google Profile > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.orghttp://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -- Weston Ruter http://weston.ruter.net/ @westonruter - Google Profile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:28:18 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:28:18 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3AAB9.8030803@pmbx.net> <4CA3AF73.5010004@gmail.com> <4CA4A8B9.3030502@aol.com> <4CA4C069.1000101@crosswire.org> <4CA4F024.2080105@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Weston Ruter wrote: > So there would have to be a tokenizer and parser that determines the meaning > of the token based on context. A superior method of doing this task is what DM suggested with constructing a trie. Then, character by character the parser could walk from the start of the input string until it reached a point in the trie where it had determined the book or determined that it was encountering an error. The trie structure was specifically designed to do exactly this type of disambiguation in parsing. --Greg > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:16 PM, DM Smith wrote: >> >> It's not quite as simple as working with the fully spelled out names. >> SWORD allows other alternates as well. For example, perhaps the following >> would work just as well for Apostle-Works: >> A-W >> AW >> Wrks >> Wrk >> Wks >> Wk >> and any proper prefix of Apostle-Works that does not conflict with another >> books abbreviations: >> Apostle-Work >> Apostle-Wor >> Apostle-Wo >> Apostle-W >> Apostle- >> Apostle >> Apostl >> ... >> Ap >> >> How about prefixes on both sides of the dash? >> Ap-Works >> Apo-Works >> Ap-Wo >> >> How about abbreviations of just one side or the other: >> Apo-Wrks >> Apostle-Wrk >> A-Wks >> >> In Him, >> ??? DM >> >> >> On 09/30/2010 01:24 PM, Weston Ruter wrote: >> >> I think the fundamental problem here is that the SWORD reference parser is >> too simple. Namely, the parser needs to not blindly split on a hyphen >> character but rather tokenize the input stream and contextually determine >> what each token is as it processes the tokens in sequence. For example, if I >> had the following passage span (assuming the language has "Apostle-Works" as >> the book name for "Acts"): >> >> Apostle-Works 4:32 - Romans 3:21 >> >> In this case, the parser would come across that first hyphen and could >> contextually determine it's not a passage span separator hyphen since the >> following token "Works" is not a recognized as a book, and also that >> "Apostle" is not a full book in itself but "Apostle-Works" is. Otherwise, >> there could be a pre-processor that does a first pass inspecting the token >> stream and replacing localized book name token sequences with their internal >> OSIS names and then just split on the hyphen as usual. >> >> Does that sound right? >> >> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM, DM Smith wrote: >>> >>> On 09/30/2010 11:11 AM, David Troidl wrote: >>> >>> Hi Robert, >>> >>> There are many Unicode characters for hyphens and dashes.? Could you >>> substitute, for example, the hyphen from General Punctuation (‐)? >>> This would give the proper appearance, without conflicting with the 'normal' >>> hyphen separator. >>> >>> I think this is at core a user input problem. Telling users that they >>> have to use a special character that is not on their keyboard is a problem. >>> I don't think it will do at all. >>> >>> If we parse the user input to figure out whether a hyphen is a range >>> specifier or part of a name and if part of a name then substitute it with >>> something else, then we should add that to the SWORD reference parser. >>> >>> >>> Peace, >>> >>> David >>> >>> On 9/29/2010 5:28 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >>> >>> On 30/09/10 10:17, Greg Hellings wrote: >>> >>> OP was not talking about a transliteration from the sounds of his email, >>> but rather the original language where the hyphen is a letter. >>> >>> You are equivalently proposing an English speaker to not use the letter s >>> in the Bible names list. It might be comprehensible but it would be horrible >>> usability and I probably wouldn't take such software seriously! >>> >>> Exactly! >>> >>> Perhaps allowing each locale to define its own numerals and hyphen-like >>> character would be a good solution? >>> >>> Yes, I'm sure there's probably dozens of languages in the world that are >>> likely to have hyphens in book names. Even in English, hyphen is a valid >>> letter as you can see in the sentence above. (It's just fortunate that it >>> doesn't occur in book names. >>> >>> Surely this issue has come up many times before??? >>> >>> Robert. >>> >>> On Sep 29, 2010 4:08 PM, "Daniel Owens" wrote: >>> > >>> > On 09/29/2010 03:55 PM, Robert Hunt wrote: >>> >> New Zealand. >>> >> >>> >> Hello all, >>> >> >>> >> I am spending today studying the documentation on the Crosswire >>> >> Sword wiki so I'm likely to have a few questions. Please let me know >>> >> if this is not the right forum to ask questions. >>> >> >>> >> I see in http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:SWORD that >>> >> localised book names are not allowed hyphens in them (because the >>> >> hyphen is used for verse ranges). In the Philippine language that we >>> >> worked with as Bible translators, the hyphen is a letter in the >>> >> alphabet and appears in several book names! >>> >> >>> >> Is this still a current limitation? If so, what is the suggested >>> >> work-around. >>> >> >>> >> Thanks, >>> >> Robert. >>> >> >>> > This problem came up with Vietnamese, and I was just told to drop the >>> > hyphens. The result was not ideal, but in the end it is still >>> > comprehensible in Vietnamese. I think the hyphen was needed because >>> > Vietnamese is monosyllabic, but more recent "transliterations" of >>> > foreign names have simply dropped the hyphens. Would the names still be >>> > comprehensible without the hyphen? >>> > >>> > Daniel >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >>> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >>> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> -- >> Weston Ruter >> http://weston.ruter.net/ >> @westonruter - Google Profile >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > > > -- > Weston Ruter > http://weston.ruter.net/ > @westonruter - Google Profile > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > From greg.hellings at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:32:28 2010 From: greg.hellings at gmail.com (Greg Hellings) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:32:28 -0500 Subject: [sword-devel] CMake Message-ID: Robert just pointed out to me some issues with building the CMake bindings which may have been affecting those of you who reported errors to me over the past few weeks. The fix is now at the top of SVN head, if those who have had problems would like to update to the latest HEAD and try building again. I know an error had been reported with the Python bindings as well as some trouble building on OS X. I believe this fix may solve some of those problems, so if those who had problems before could try again and let me know what you find, I would be appreciative. Thanks! --Greg From manfred.bergmann at me.com Thu Sep 30 13:56:39 2010 From: manfred.bergmann at me.com (Manfred Bergmann) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:56:39 +0200 Subject: [sword-devel] Differences between SWORD & JSword ? In-Reply-To: <4CA49626.2040606@crosswire.org> References: <1285836991849-2720406.post@n4.nabble.com> <4CA49626.2040606@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <5204CFE2-547E-4798-8C91-CC7D1A4323D7@me.com> Am 30.09.2010 um 15:52 schrieb DM Smith: > On 09/30/2010 04:56 AM, David Haslam wrote: >> Is there a list or table anywhere that describes the significant differences >> (key features implemented or not) between SWORD and JSword? > Not that I'm aware of. JSword takes the approach, for good or for bad, that the module reading and reference recognition are the key points at which the two need to be compatible. > > Regarding reference recognition, the implementation is different and there by will have minor differences, typically relating to abbreviations. JSword does not use SWORD's Bible names files, nor the ordering that is in them. Rather for disambiguation, it favors NT over OT and w/in a testament earlier book names rather than later book names. Thus J will resolve to John. > > Regarding modules, it does not support writing of any module or reading of av11n modules. Otherwise, it is complete, afaik. It can write personal commentary modules. Manfred From mjdenham at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 14:52:11 2010 From: mjdenham at gmail.com (Martin Denham) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:52:11 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] Missing Lang=en in tdavid.conf Message-ID: Hi, I am not sure what the process of fixing or amending modules is but I thought I would mention that tdavid.conf has no language specified i.e. there is a missing: Lang=en The affect of this is that Treasury of David may possibly not be shown for download by programs that filter downloads by language. Kind regards Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrislit at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 16:44:34 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 16:44:34 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings In-Reply-To: References: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> <4CA39FB9.3010504@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <4CA520E2.60604@crosswire.org> I thought you were talking about creating the v11n definition. If you're talking about a mapping from Synodal to other v11ns, then we wouldn't have any way of using that information. Obviously, you're free to work on it, but no one is currently doing anything to implement verse mapping between v11ns. --Chris On 9/29/10 11:47 PM, ????? ? ????? ?????? wrote: > What do you mean? As i know there is no mapping between v11ns in Sword. > > Chris Little ?????(?) ? ????? ?????? Thu, 30 > Sep 2010 00:21:13 +0400: > >> This has been available (in SVN) for a year. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From chrislit at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 17:02:39 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:02:39 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Missing Lang=en in tdavid.conf In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA5251F.6050104@crosswire.org> Lang=en is default, so there shouldn't be an issue anywhere, but I've added this line to the current .conf. --Chris On 9/30/10 2:52 PM, Martin Denham wrote: > Hi, > > I am not sure what the process of fixing or amending modules is but I > thought I would mention that tdavid.conf has no language specified i.e. > there is a missing: > > Lang=en > > The affect of this is that Treasury of David may possibly not be shown > for download by programs that filter downloads by language. > > Kind regards > Martin > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page From chrislit at crosswire.org Thu Sep 30 17:12:15 2010 From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 17:12:15 -0700 Subject: [sword-devel] Chinese PinYin, OSIS, SWORD and front-ends In-Reply-To: <1285853056584-2720727.post@n4.nabble.com> References: <1285853056584-2720727.post@n4.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4CA5275F.3030409@crosswire.org> Our ICU transliterators include a Pinyin transliterator, allowing the user to switch between Han and Pinyin. It wouldn't be especially difficult to write a filter to put the transliterated text in ruby. The transliterator table is fairly good, I believe, and sometimes looks at context, not just isolated glyphs. --Chris On 9/30/10 6:24 AM, David Haslam wrote: > > This question is first addressed to the experts on OSIS markup, though it > will also be of interest to front-end& SWORD/JSword developers. > > Suppose we had a Chinese Bible module and wanted to include inline > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_Yin Pinyin pronunciation markup for every > ideogram, as an aid [say] to those learning the language. This is worth > pursuing, especially as Pinyin can be used for other languages besides > Mandarin Chinese. > > What would be the recommended method to do this? > > One of my contacts wrote to me recently, > > Please take note that many Chinese words contains more than one phonetic > sound and multiple meanings, the website I used to get the thing done > (PinYin) is claiming 98% accuracy. If you have friends need to do other > Chinese PinYin Bible I would be able to explain how to overcome the > behaviour/weaknesses of the website http://py.kdd.cc/ http://py.kdd.cc/ > > He also provided the following text file contents ... (lightly reformated) > > The following Chinese characters were missing from the database of > http://py.kdd.cc/ http://py.kdd.cc/ > > ?(gui1) > ?(ju3) > ?(zheng1) > ?(chao3) > ?(nao4) > ?(yuan4) > ?(nang2) > ?(xuan1) > ?(rang3) > ?(chang2) > ?(wa1) > > We've managed to overcome this by marking the missing character(s) and then > using a hard copy dictionary to get the correct HanYuPinYin. > > ---- > > The next question is addressed to both front-end developers and SWORD engine > programmers > > One obvious way would be to have a separate SWORD module for the edition > that is enhanced with Pinyin. > > Yet a more attractive idea would be to enhance the SWORD API such that > Pinyin markup could be switched on or off as required, thus providing the > possibility of only having one module to maintain. > > Then each front-end could eventually be enhanced to include a menu view > option to Show/Hide Pinyin, just like they do for several other types of > inline markup such as Strongs, etc. > > The method used to display the inline Pinyin could be at the discretion of > the front-end developers. They might wish to use [say] superscripts in a > different color than we use for other types of inline markup. > > Finally, as there is a one-to-one correspondance between each Chinese > character and its Pinyin transliteration, this suggests the possibility that > the Pinyin lookup could be done entirely within the SWORD API, thus not > necessitating any inline OSIS markup within the module. > > Do these ideas and questions make good sense? > > Yours in Christ's service, > David Haslam > > > > > > From benpmorgan at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 18:10:31 2010 From: benpmorgan at gmail.com (Ben Morgan) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:10:31 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] Hyphens in book names In-Reply-To: <4CA3C0DF.10502@crosswire.org> References: <4CA3A7AC.6080607@gmail.com> <4CA3B873.10602@crosswire.org> <4CA3C0DF.10502@crosswire.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Troy A. Griffitts wrote: > :) > > In principle I agree with Chris, but I can't decide what people do with > names. One of my colleagues in this country (England) is named > Instone-Brewer (sorry to use you as an example David). > > We've been wanting to internationalize the numerals and action symbols > in our verse parser for a while now (and the display format, e.g., %BOOK > %CH:%VS, %VS or %BOOK %CH,%VS.%VS ). It's not a huge task but it's > on the list with everything else. It sounds like the BPBible guys > already have a good start at this. I'd love to see the patch or if one > of you guys would like to head up this item, please speak up. > What we do in BPBible is: 1) for reading user input, we run a few regexes over it. One of them removes dashes in between alphabetical characters. This will break the case of Acts-Romans, but will not break say Acts - Romans (because of the spaces), or Romans 3:1-2 (as it is numbers not letters). (out of interest, the others regexes are: 1) replace a single 'v' in between numbers with a ':' This allows references like Mat 5v6. 2) replace spaces between numbers with a : This allows Mat 5 6, which would otherwise be interpreted as Matt 56 3) remove spaces between a ':' and a number Otherwise Matt 5: 6 is interpreted as Matt 56) We also go through and replace 0-9 in the input language with 0-9 in english. When outputting text to the user, we glue it together using an algorithm intended to give the best range text (so that we get Genesis 1:6-9 not Genesis 1:6-Genesis 1:9, also handles outputting say Jude 2-8 instead of Jude 1:2-Jude 1:8). The bookname in english is run through the translate twice; once to localize it and the next time to turn the localized variety into localized-with-dashes. A regexp turns 0-9 in english into 0-9 in the target language. In BPBible text displayed to user/inputted by user is carefully separated from internal, english text. Internal text doesn't need all this special processing. What would be nice I think would be to be able to glue all our locales together into one big locale (with an emphasis e.g. on English, when in English, or on German when in German) so that if the user enters Nepali references when in English they still work (it would usually work vice-versa - entering English in Nepali should work) God Bless, Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Gi??n 3:14 (ESV) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mnglfiddle at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 18:21:20 2010 From: mnglfiddle at gmail.com (Matthew Patenaude) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 09:21:20 +0800 Subject: [sword-devel] pinyin in Chinese sword module Message-ID: >Thanks for helpful clarification. > >The look-up concept I was trying to describe would always be unidirectional. >(Ideogram => Pinyin) > >Although Pinyin can also be used as a text entry method, I did not consider >that as a feature needed for any of the SWORD front-end applications. > >David That would be correct, actually. Pinyin lookup for a Bible module would be essentially meaningless. There are only around 400 total pinyin possibilities to divided among all the many characters (found in the Bible alone, not to mention the language), so it would be meaningless to look up a word for study usage in a module by using Pinyin. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but your intent is for those of us who might not recognize a character, to be able to look up (and also to show, via a show/hide pinyin function) a character within the text. Right? Probably 70% or less of Chinese characters represent a single pinyin + tone spelling (for lack of the results of a thorough study - I would say that is a generous estimate). Those are the easy ones. For the rest of them - 1 character = either pinyin + several tone choices or/and several pinyin choices + their respective tones. These are the difficult ones, and they have to be checked. One comes to mind immediately that has one pronunciation as an adjective ("e" + 4th tone), and another pronunciation ("yan" + 4th tone) as a noun. To make matters ugly, not only do both these words show up in the CUV(S), there are quite a few single verses where they both show up. Same character, two completely different pronunciations. This kind of thing has to be watched for. The poor foreign preacher reading his carefully prepared text and not getting the above character correct is going to get some pretty funny looks. Some context may be necessary for lookup. In the above example, the character usually occurs within a phrase (a Chinese 'word' sometimes has more than one syllable, though each syllable is one character and can itself be one word - it's convoluted...), and the different pronunciations show up within different phrases. So if you see it combine with one of one set of characters, you know it is pronounced "e4", and with one of a different set of characters it is usually pronounced "yan4", and so on. Hope that helps... Matthew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marktmorgan at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 19:44:12 2010 From: marktmorgan at gmail.com (Mark Morgan) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 08:14:12 +0530 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings In-Reply-To: <4CA520E2.60604@crosswire.org> References: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> <4CA39FB9.3010504@crosswire.org> <4CA520E2.60604@crosswire.org> Message-ID: I would have thought that such a mapping was a fundamental part of support for alternate versifications. Until the mapping is there and available through the library in some way, front ends cannot link between Bibles with different versifications: cross references can only work for one versification. In my use of the Bible, swift looking up of cross references and easy comparison of multiple translations are the main area where computers shine. Take away those advantages and a paper Bible feels much better. To me, this lack seems a major limitation. God bless. Mark "All I have seen teaches me to trust the creator for all I have not seen" Ralph Waldo Emerson "Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable." Isaiah 40:28 2010/10/1 Chris Little > I thought you were talking about creating the v11n definition. If you're > talking about a mapping from Synodal to other v11ns, then we wouldn't have > any way of using that information. Obviously, you're free to work on it, but > no one is currently doing anything to implement verse mapping between v11ns. > > --Chris > > > On 9/29/10 11:47 PM, ????? ? ????? ?????? wrote: > >> What do you mean? As i know there is no mapping between v11ns in Sword. >> >> Chris Little ?????(?) ? ????? ?????? Thu, 30 >> Sep 2010 00:21:13 +0400: >> >> This has been available (in SVN) for a year. >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benpmorgan at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 20:34:32 2010 From: benpmorgan at gmail.com (Ben Morgan) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 13:34:32 +1000 Subject: [sword-devel] CMake In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok, that seems to work with BPBible now. However, it also seems to hard code the path to libsword's dylib to be in the build directory, which could be a problem (though I don't know too much about this linking stuff on MacOSX): otool -L _Sword.so _Sword.so (architecture i386): /Users/benm/builds/sword/trunk/build/libsword.1.6.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.6.1, current version 0.0.0) /usr/lib/libstdc++.6.dylib (compatibility version 7.0.0, current version 7.9.0) /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 125.2.0) _Sword.so (architecture ppc7400): /usr/lib/libstdc++.6.dylib (compatibility version 7.0.0, current version 7.9.0) /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 125.2.0) God Bless, Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Multitudes, multitudes, in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. Gi??n 3:14 (ESV) On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Greg Hellings wrote: > Robert just pointed out to me some issues with building the CMake > bindings which may have been affecting those of you who reported > errors to me over the past few weeks. The fix is now at the top of > SVN head, if those who have had problems would like to update to the > latest HEAD and try building again. > > I know an error had been reported with the Python bindings as well as > some trouble building on OS X. I believe this fix may solve some of > those problems, so if those who had problems before could try again > and let me know what you find, I would be appreciative. Thanks! > > --Greg > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel at crosswire.org > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From refdoc at gmx.net Thu Sep 30 22:39:32 2010 From: refdoc at gmx.net (Peter von Kaehne) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 06:39:32 +0100 Subject: [sword-devel] av11n mappings In-Reply-To: References: <1691446250.20100929194013@mail.ru> <20100929155823.24700@gmx.net> <4CA39FB9.3010504@crosswire.org> <4CA520E2.60604@crosswire.org> Message-ID: <20101001063932.42277831@peter-laptop> > To me, this lack seems a major limitation. We have been over that one already a few times. A limitation, not a major one. And better than the current situation. So it is progress. I say this as someone whose main Bible is in a av11n While Bibles get forced into KJV the references get messed up too. Luther v11n texts are in a major way different across Pentateuch and small prophets so much so that all KJV references are meaningless - they get you into the general neighbourhood but nothing more. But without av11n even normal lookup is wrong. And that is worse. At the moment basically whenever you want to look at a German OT reference you might know by heart our software gives you the wrong text. Once av11n works this will not happen any more. You are wrong if you think the current system does what you want - seamless moving between languages. Peter