[sword-devel] KJV Beta issue

Arthur Bolstad arthurbolstad at sbcglobal.net
Sun Jun 14 20:14:20 MST 2009

re Greek.  Greek does have words which seem to act a paragraph markers
or some such division.  For example: "de".  On the other hand, they
don't use spaces or indentation to mark paragraphs.

I basically agree with the comments, just wanted to note the above.

In Christ,


On Sun, 2009-06-14 at 19:43 -0500, Greg Hellings wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Ben Morgan<benpmorgan at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Greg Hellings <greg.hellings at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Ben Morgan<benpmorgan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > BPBible 0.4.4 currently displays a pilcrow without a space after it, as
> >> > that
> >> > is what is in the text.
> >> > BPBible 0.5 will turn these into paragraphs, as that is what they
> >> > represent.
> >>
> >> This should DEFINITELY be an option, as they don't actually represent
> >> paragraphs.  They represent printed Pilcrow characters in the KJV
> >> text, not paragraphs.  The reader should understand they indicate the
> >> beginning of a conceptual paragraph according to the translators'
> >> intentions, but they do not actually represent paragraphs in the
> >> printed text.
> >
> > I'm not sure how much I care about the printed text; if the printed text is
> > verse-per-line, this doesn't mean that I have to restrict the users to this.
> > Similarly, if the printed text uses pilcrows, it doesn't mean that users
> > have to see them.
> I'm not saying you force them to see the Pilcrows.  And obviously,
> BPBible is your baby, so you're free to do whatever you would like.
> However, the KJV has been in print for 398 years now, and those who
> like it often get very touchy about ANY changes to it.  To force them
> to see typographic paragraphs where the generally accepted version has
> printed Pilcrows will certainly upset many of that faction.  I was
> just suggesting you have a setting that could be toggled for the KJV
> texts that more or less has "Show in verse-as-paragraph with
> Pilcrows/Show in verse-as-paragraph without Pilcrows/Show in
> Pilcrows-as-paragraph" settings that the user can chose.  Then, those
> of us who care more about the "conceptual" paragraph than about the
> "typographic" paragraph can choose that option, and people who want to
> see the faithful-to-print version with Pilcrows can see that as well.
> Speaking completely personally, I think the paragraph view you're
> suggesting for 0.5 is far superior to verse-as-paragraph, which is one
> of the most ridiculous ideas I can imagine.  However, there are people
> who disagree, and they do so quite fervently.
> >
> > I'm not sure what distinction you are drawing between "conceptual
> > paragraphs" and "actual paragraphs" unless it is just talking about
> > representing the text exactly.
> As the original Greek text lacks any paragraph boundaries, all
> paragraph markings in translations or even in printed Greek texts is
> someone's attempt to discern the authors' intentions to group related
> material.  Those are the "conceptual" paragraphs.  The "actual"
> paragraphs I mentioned should probably have been called "typographic"
> paragraphs.  The KJV translators felt that it was proper to indicate
> each verse as a typographically unique paragraph.  They then inserted
> Pilcrows (at least as I understand it) to attempt to give their
> understanding of bodies of related sentences in the works.
> >
> > I could put an option in to let people display the pilcrows... and then
> > maybe put some title text explaining them on mouseover...
> Personally I think that would be better than just forcing either one,
> and is a feature I've often thought would be well received.
> Personally I think it might be interesting to see where the
> translators thought these paragraphs ought to be as compared to more
> recent translators, etc.  The more user choices, especially useful and
> well explained choices, the better (in my opinion).
> --Greg
> >
> > God Bless,
> > Ben
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Multitudes, multitudes,
> >    in the valley of decision!
> > For the day of the LORD is near
> >    in the valley of decision.
> >
> > Giôên 3:14 (ESV)
> >
> >
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