[sword-devel] Greek dictionary - input needed

Daniel Owens dhowens at pmbx.net
Mon Jan 19 19:32:50 MST 2009

I will check into the copyright issues with G-K numbers (thanks for the 
cautionary reminder). I would think they would be free in granting 
permission to use the numbers because it increases their usability and 
visibility, but who knows.

The purist in me wants to use the lemma as the key, but that isn't 
always realistic given the "market" for these sorts of things. And right 
now there is only one module which uses the lemma as the key, and it's 
in beta.

The other MAJOR problem is that the dictionary keys are always 
capitalized, which makes it really awkward to use for Greek. Can I lobby 
again for a change in that? How many Greek students are used to looking 
up words in capitals? I was taught using lower case letters, and many of 
the capitals are really fuzzy. When reading I can work them out based on 
context sometimes because I have the rest of the word to clue me in. 
Capitals also make accent marks look strange. Then there is the issue of 
sort order again...

What I am hearing from Eeli and Jonathan is a move toward lemma as the 
key for dictionaries but a recognition that multiple keys could be 
useful. Is there is a way to encode TEI dictionaries to have multiple 
key options using n, key, and sortKey? I mean, why not encode 
dictionaries with each entry assigned a Strong's number (n?) and a 
StrongLemma (sortKey?)?

We plan to make our source file include at least Strong's numbers and 
lemma, so it will be easier in the future to switch between the two or 
add more. We'll have G-K numbers if we can navigate the copyright issues.


Jonathan Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 9:40 PM, Eeli Kaikkonen
> <eekaikko at mail.student.oulu.fi> wrote:
>> Quoting Daniel Owens <dhowens at pmbx.net>:
>>> I have a technical question, though. We will be using SIL's MDF markers
>>> (similar to USFM) for the source file which can then be transformed
>>> into TEI or other formats for various uses. I am thinking that each
>>> entry should include Strong's number(s), the lexical form, and
>>> Goodrick-Kohlenberger number(s). The G-K numbers seem to be a modern
>>> replacement for Strong's.
>> My guess is that G-K must be forgotten because it's copyrighted. The list of
>> number/word connections is a creative work.
>> The whole idea of using Strong's or other numbers with computer software is
>> strange. We have discussed about this before, but I repeat that numbers are
>> needless because computers are able to do the searches and to show correct
>> entries in a dictionary without numbers. The problem in getting rid of them
>> is that people are so used to them that they think they give some extra
>> value to software/modules, and some people are used to reading the numbers
>> and can't live without them.
>> Numbers are of course good if you need to use external material, too
>> (printed books). Therefore they are useful and even necessary in
>> electronical resources. But you shouldn't use G-K without asking the
>> copyright holder.
> Also, if you are using a module like our KJV it is using Strong's
> Numbers internally (though you are welcome to then display the word
> rather than the number, which BPBible does though I doubt it does it
> perfectly).
> Another problem that you will probably run into with the Greek is that
> the different texts have a different vocabulary.  The KJV and the NKJV
> are based on the Textus Receptus, and as a result Strongs Numbers are
> also based on the Textus Receptus vocabulary.  If you look at the
> introduction to a version of Thayer's Lexicon keyed to Strongs Numbers
> but based on a different text you will find some words not present at
> all, and others added with numbers like (1234a), meaning that it is a
> word not in the Textus Receptus, but in whatever text is used as the
> basis of Thayers.  This might make it harder to use Strong's Numbers
> or something similar as a universal keying standard (we really need
> multiple keys for such dictionaries - maybe Strong's Numbers for
> programmatic lookup (and people if they really insist), as well as
> Greek and probably transliterated Greek like Strong's Dictionary has).
> Jon
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