[sword-devel] [bd-users] Map Idea

coby ingram coby at peru.com
Tue Mar 25 22:58:39 MST 2008

I'm just replying to this because I've been researching a similar idea for a
while and have some ideas from my own hard knocks.

I will insert a few responses to what has been written here.  I invite you
to check out what I say for yourself.

------- Forwarded Message --------
*From*: peter <refdoc at gmx.net <peter%20%3crefdoc at gmx.net%3e>>
*To*: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
<sword-devel at crosswire.org<SWORD%20Developers%27%20Collaboration%20Forum%20%3csword-devel at crosswire.org%3e>
*Cc*: bibledesktop-users at crosswire.org
*Subject*: Re: [bd-users] [sword-devel] Map Idea
*Date*: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:04:55 +0000

Looking at the KML files distributed by Openbible.info (under a free
licence) - these contain all info one ever would want.

I assume you meant to type XML...  And info is great, it's accessing
it smoothly and dependably that's the rub.  Read on.

The coordinates work in Googlemaps flawlessly as soon as one appends

One issue that needs to be addressed is whether you want to be
dependent on Google, or whether you would like to use other maps as
well, e.g. from a Christian site, or on your local drive.

12:8&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a

search in googlemaps for E35.261226, N31.916978 and you end up in Ai.

So a genbook or dictionary or whatever made out of this data should be a
fairly straight forward matter as such - but for the fact that currently
none of the interfaces will currently load images etc from the internet.

SwordWeb won't?  It's HTML-based, after all.  IMHO HTML is one of the
best ways to go, on a lot of levels.


Jonathan Morgan wrote:
> Note that I am CC'ing sword-devel on this.  I suspect that that would
> be a better place to discuss this.

I'm not subscribed but I assume that's where the discussion is going
to take place...
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Brent Coffey <bcoffe at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>  Well I checked out the web bible mapping web site and the ccel web site.
>> The bible mapping site is similar to what I'm thinking but far far simpler
>> than what I was imagining.  But could be a valid way of starting...just mark
>> known locations from verses that mention a location. I think I know how to
>> do the GUI, conceptually at least.  A really slick tool might be to do like
>> a flash/flex front-end instead of using swing or any of the other standard
>> java toolkits.  But that would get away from the free tools.  Then again
>> using SWT or even Apples JVM can make so pretty nice GUI's, IMO.

HTML makes your GUI flexible, customizable, and understood by every
platform.  Just for starters.  And Web apps more than others speak
other (software) languages.  Most every app has a window on the web.
Especially Java.  The nonfree tools you mention, especially Flash, not
only exclude many users, but are unneccesarily complex and do not play
well with others -- like HTML does.
>>  I figured it may not be so bad to pull in map data from the java WorldWind
>> project (NASA project, like google). But yes it is defiantly ambitious and I
>> have no idea how much I want or am willing to invest in the effort.  Just
>> kicking some more "unique" ideas around.   Would be nice if BibleDesktop
>> could out shine logos, then maybe Logos would open up their Libronix format
>> which I believe is a closed standard? Would be great if any piece of
>> software commercial or open source could read Libronix files.  The price of
>> logos is so high and with no major commercial  competition it seems like it
>> is not as innovative as it could be.
>>  But it does seem to me that the real challenge and the most useful thing is
>> the idea of "tagging" meta data to books, chapters, verses, words, or
>> phrases.  This technology would be foundational to doing any of the mapping
>> ideas as well as a host of other things it seems.  Where would I start to
>> even get requirements for such a huge undertaking?  I checked out CCEL but I
>> didn't see anything that jumped out for annotations?  Perhaps I missed
>> something?

I sent a link that lists most known annotation-related projects. A
thorough knowledge of the subject is important before going much
On CCEL you have to open to a page in a book (Try the KJV) that
contains text.  A toolbar pops up that allows you to put notes on
their server if you sign in.  It has many nice features.  Crosswalk
has a similar service.  Obviously these guys would be a great
> If you are interested in getting location data, have a look at
> http://www.openbible.info/.
> A few things that are worth considering:
> 1. Generic and Useful are not necessarily connected.  The mere fact
> that I can attach arbitrary information to verses doesn't mean that
> that information will be easy to use afterwards.  A format specific to
> something like maps may be easier to implement and use.

It's called RDF and it is a universal linking format for metadata.
All linking, all formats, all data.  The trouble is putting together a
library with enough heavy lifting power to handle it.  Most web
annotation services put their notes on a server like Apache using a
MySQL database and an interpreted control language like Perl.  I have
been looking for a way to do this on a smaller scale but no one else
seems to be.  BD might have the seeds of a way to work on both a large
and a small scale since it, like most annotation, many database, and
some interpreter and server apps, is in Java.

> 2. A distinction would need to be made between making an annotation to
> a particular version of the Bible and making an annotation to a
> particular verse in any Bible (for example, I don't really want to tie
> map locations to a particular Bible, but I do want to tie them to a
> particular verse or verse range - which may not be present in all
> Bibles).

If the annotations are tied to the OSIS (XML) tags first, and only
second to the (localized) text, you might be able to annotate many
Bibles with one note.  Most annotation seems to be XML-based.
Please let's be clear that you do not want to touch your original
text.  The annotations stay in a separate file.  RDF/XML links the two
files.  Others running the same study platform can import and use your
notes as easily as opening an email.

> 3. How are you planning for annotations to be distributed?  For
> example, your Bible maps annotations should not be version specific,
> and as such shouldn't be distributed with a version, so they must be
> installed in some other way (either automatically or explicitly).
> 4. Are you also wishing to annotate dictionaries, commentaries,
> GenBooks and so on, or just Bibles?

A Bible in OSIS format is one of the more complex XML documents in
your list.  The others should be trivial to add.
Plus you definitely are going to want to wikify your notes, so that
one or two clicks take you to another resource.
There was some discussion of working with Wikipedia on a previous post
on this topic.  Wikipedia is an app of similar magnitude (on the same
level) and roughly the same server configuration as SwordWeb.  No
point in going outside the Sword environment, in fact it would be
overkill.  But wiki functionality in a Bible study app is super
important IMHO.
One caution.  Please don't lock this into server-side.  There are
those of us tied to client-side apps like BD Portable.

I really hope my comments are helpful and I will be praying for y'all.


> Jon
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