[sword-devel] New front page CrossWire

Troy A. Griffitts scribe at crosswire.org
Mon Dec 1 14:58:42 MST 2008

> Thanks for suggesting this. I thought everyones' heart was set on
> Diatheke, I could not bring up the courage to suggest this ;-)

So, are we planning to have any visibility of a command-line tool?

> I agree with logos. But we might not have any for some applications.
> Will look.

I think some of the screenshots are cool, like the handhelds.  Even the 
ones where the details are not understandable, they give the idea of the 
complexity of the app.  But the simple apps like the mobile versions, 
including flashcards and others, give a quick idea of what the app might 
look like.  This is just my opinion from a user perspective.  Take it or 
leave it.

>> I like DM's suggestion of using platform logos (Tux, an apple, the wavy 
>> windows flag, (others?)). I don't think we need to be too specific 
>> though. Tux can stand for BSD, Solaris, Linux on PS3s, etc.

> I agree.

Yes, I like the idea of OS logos.  We are entering a new world where OS 
isn't necessarily the technical divide.  But I still fear we might 
confuse our end users as an expense for having a 'correct' 
representation of our software.

Regarding SWORD and JSword.  CrossWire is predominantly an organization 
for developers.  My thought behind having these projects at the top but 
also keeping the initial details very short, was to cater to our 
purpose, yet short enough to not distract from the end user.  Maybe we 
could have a section: "For Developers" to make it easy for end users to 
know they can skip.

Or maybe a 'For Developers' tab at the top and remove them completely 
from the frontpage.  Dunno.  Again, just wanting to express my thoughts 
for the way it was initial done.

>> Troy might have a better feel for the current state of Linux on 
>> handhelds (QPE/Linux on iPaq). I don't know whether it was necessarily 
>> time to remove these yet.
> To be honest i always thought this was a hobbyists field - no Linux PDA
> ever made it, Zaurus just (kind of) excepted and now it is dead too.

:) OK, it might be the fact that I wrote QPSword, but just because an 
application hasn't been changed recently, doesn't necessarily mean it 
shouldn't be on our site.  I actually think it is the most complete UI 
we have for a PDA-- supporting all module types.  It should probably be 
compiled for the latest engine, and also since Qt has a WinCE version 
now, it would be nice to compile it for WinCE, as well... And what about 
OLPCs, Nokia handhelds, and other small screen linux devices?

>> The PalmBiblePlus link was there essentially to point people to a Palm 
>> Bible project in line with our goals. The UniBible link was added at 
>> their request. We wanted to point people *somewhere* since we had 
>> decided not to serve PalmOS ourselves. I think we should evaluate 
>> whether anyone still uses PalmOS. If so, we should keep these links. If 
>> not, we can dump them. My suspicion, given the state of Palm, even as a 
>> smartphone manufacturer, is that they aren't very relevant any more.
> I would agree.

Being at Tyndale recently, I would say that PDA Bible software is still 
dominated by Palm devices.  This may be because David Instone-Brewer 
recommends Palms and PalmBible+ to all residents.  Treo smartphones are 
split between PalmOS models and WinCE, and the new Centro smartphone is 
PalmOS.  I would like to still keep PalmBible+ on our main page, being 
sure there is wording which states something like: although not a 
CrossWire project...  It also shows good will between our projects.  We 
don't wish to duplicate the efforts of a good project already filling a 
need which is inline with our purpose.

>> I think BD & Alkitab should definitely go on the main page.
> OK.

Yes, positively.

>> More broadly, we might want to go with a 2 column (plus the existing 
>> sidebar) layout. As it is, I've got a very long page, but with a lot of 
>> whitespace.
> I will see what I can do. The current layout is a massive table. I will
> see whether i can get a basic CSS column design going.

Peter, you are our CSS expert now!!! :)

Just in general, my final comments while doing this work would be:

If we are thinking of taking an app off the page, let's use the occasion 
as a good excuse to try to reconnect with the developers and see what 
they're doing lately.  To let them know that we would love to have them 
continue to work together.

Remember our first priority is a developer community.  I think we've 
done a poor job in the past emphasising this and broadcasting a "call 
for developers" message on our main home page.  But to restate, 
developers can be expected to spend a little more time clicking around 
our site, if they initially convinced this is a place they want to be; 
whereas, end users should be given a VERY quick path to download the 
software that will meet their needs.

I guess this one is specific: The Featured Site section was meant to 
rotate monthly, quartly, ANNUALLY at least! :)  It was intended to be at 
the top and showcase a project-- even projects not at CrossWire but with 
whom we collaborate or have similar goals.  I would take the Wiki out 
and place it somewhere else.  As an end user who might not know what a 
wiki is, I'm not sure where I would expect to see this... Maybe under 
"User Contributed Documentation"... hmmm.  Not sure.  Maybe not have a 
general 'wiki' entry at all, but individual links to individual sections 
of the wiki.... Hmmm.. Just thinking out loud.  Thoughts?

Anyway, Thank you Peter!  For owning this and spending the time to drive 
this forward.

> Oh. and sorry for the poor wrapping of my first post - it came from a
> webmail provider. I was not aware of that.
> Peter
>> --Chris
>> Peter von Kaehne wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Following previous discussions on the list I have started reworking
> the front page of the project. I have no ambitions as a web designer,
> but simply wanted to update the page, remove dead links (micros,
> diatheke CGI, BibleStudy) and add links to active projects which compile
> on the current library (Rapier and BpBible)
>>> Problematic for me - and I would like your consensus - are two
>>> groups
> of applications linked previously
>>> 1) 2 non CrossWire applications for Palms. At least one was
> kickstarted by CrossWire:
>>> http://www.crosswire.org/pipermail/sword-devel/2003-January/017741.html
>>> but the link has always been tenous and has become even more tenous
> since an export facility for Sword modules to the format for Palms has
> been removed from our site (diaspora.exe).
>>> My suggestion would be to remove these two programmes totally, but
> create a link section to programmes not associated with CrossWire for
> other platforms
>>> 2) several old programmes which were last updated a few years ago -
> Dagger and QPSword which worked for various Linux handhelds. I have
> found in one of teh crevices of our site a folder with downloadable
> modules etc for Dagger, so i guess it would be worthwhile to link the
> programme somehow, but I feel bad to have it on the front page when we
> have increasing numbers of modules which will not work on it and when no
> one feels responsible to sort out bugs etc.
>>> And then there is LCDBible - is it still under development? Last i
> heard was the guy who wrote it went proprietary with his front end and a
> different engine - if it is not anymore updated, i think I take it out too.
>>> And obviously also GoBible. I am not sure whether it was announced
>>> or
> not, but we have started hosting here on CrossWire, David Haslam has an
> account and plan is to continue development by CrossWire as the original
> developer is too busy. So it needs to go somehwere on the front page,
> even if it is not a sword engine based programme.
>>> Finally - is Manu Mittal still about and developing? LCDBible's guy
> wrote me that Manu has joined forces with him and stopped developing his
> programme.
>>> Other than this - I am going to put up Bibledesktop up and I think
>>> I
> should put it up separately from JSword as there are now three Jsword
> front ends (BD, Al Kitab and a firefox toolbar)
>>> The currenty page is at www.crosswire.org/index.jsp (it remains
>>> under
> development) the one that was is under www.crosswire.org/oldindex.jsp
>>> Further - the strict separation of Windows, Mac and Linux
>>> application
> has become increasingly wrong. There is BD and AlKitab, but also BpBible
> has aspiration of being cross platform, gnomesword is on its way to a
> windows release (it compiles and works to a fashion) BT is apparantly
> aso going this way.
>>> Suggestions and comments are welcome.
>>> Peter
>>> Your thoughts please.
>>> Peter
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