[sword-devel] BibleCS Installer

Troy A. Griffitts scribe at crosswire.org
Wed Mar 8 00:49:19 MST 2006

Hey guys.  Excited about all the ideas moving forward with multiple 
windows installs, but please remember that THIS release is only intented 
to have the identical functionality as the current InstallShield 
installer, just so we can get an update out for the software.  After 
that, I'm perfectly happy to entertain ideas about supporting multiple 
sword clients on a windows computer.  I'm not trying to squelch 
creativity here.  I really want to move forward with things, but we need 
to have milestones-- and we have a very immediate need.  I agree with DM 
that we need to get this out sooner and worry about new functionality after.

The current InstallShield uninstaller calls installmgr with a 
command-line option to remove all modules.  Lynn, I understand this may 
not be what you want, but the switch to NSIS-- and thus an open 
installer which allows for future enhancement-- has to be TOWARD what 
you want.  Please understand the need I'm trying to meet.  It is nothing 


L.Allan-pbio wrote:
> Thanks for the update. Hope you don't mind the "cage rattling".
> My impression is that the uninstallers for the front-end apps can and 
> should ignore removal of modules. As the military phrase goes, "that is 
> above my pay grade." <b>
> The intention may be for the InstallManager to be responsible for 
> removal of most (all?) of the installed modules. Troy G would be the one 
> to check with on the specifics, but I think that the uninstallers for 
> the actual apps can pretty much ignore this complicated task. There is 
> lots that can go wrong with removing modules.
> Perhaps it is sufficient for the application uninstallers to have a 
> checkbox on the "components" page (or the Finish page?) whether to 
> "launch" the InstallManager? The functionality of the application's 
> uninstaller would be otherwise limited to removal of its specific 
> executable(s), help files, .conf files, registry entries, environment 
> variables, icons, StartMenu entries, .ini files, jar files, etc. but NOT 
> the modules.
> Unless it involves a pda, today's huge hard drives make it a relatively 
> lower priority to "clean up" everything during an uninstall. My 
> experience is that the fussy reviewers at CNet/Download.com and TuCows 
> pay attention to the thoroughness of the uninstaller, but most end-users 
> may not care if some resources get left installed if they uninstall the 
> app.
> It would still be possible to do a thorough uninstall and "blow away" 
> every file, module, registry entry, etc, but the default "flow" of the 
> uninstaller for a specific front-end would leave modules and some 
> CrossWire "family" registry entries. There should be enough "bread 
> crumbs" left for a subsequent installation to be able to find a "sane" 
> place to install to facilitate module sharing.
> IMHO, I think the difficulty of the uninstaller trying to figure out all 
> the combinations and permutations, and then making the choices 
> clear/unambiguous to the end-user about what they can and/or could 
> and/or should do are not worth the effort, and unlikely to be 
> "bullet-proof".
> Here is a scenario:  a person has been using BibleCS sword.exe and 
> decides to try LcdBible and BibleStudy and BibleDesktop. The modules are 
> "sort of" shared, except some apps find the shared resources within the 
> directory structure (i.e. in the same directory as BibleCS sword.exe 
> which is how SWMgr::findConfig works now), some use SWORD_PATH, and some 
> have redundant resources (mods.d and modules in their install directory 
> and KJV has been installed multiple times, for example).
> I would advise against the uninstaller trying to figure out this "hodge 
> podge" out and attempt to "do the right thing". It seems too likely that 
> some modules will get unintentionally deleted which interferes with the 
> operation of other apps.
> To me, the problem is that end-users with multiple CrossWire front-end 
> apps will intend to install a module, and be confused and frustrated 
> when some front-ends can "see" the module, and some can't.
> Perhaps it would be appropriate to have a separate, simple program that 
> "sniffed around" the registry and certain default locations to detect 
> redundant modules, such as:
> C:\Program Files\CrossWire\The SWORD Project\mod.d
> C:\Program Files\CrossWire\LcdBible\mod.d
> C:\Program Files\CrossWire\BibleDesktop\mods.d
> C:\Program Files\CrossWire\mods.d
> C:\Program Files\CrossWire\resources\mods.d
> [InstallDir]\mods.d
> etc.
> and then brought redundancies to the attention of the end-user. Some 
> redundancies would be intended, especially for developers. Such a 
> capability could perhaps be part of the InstallManager (the "test" 
> version of the LcdBible "StarterKit" installer used a very small "proxy" 
> for the InstallManager to do some of the above and could probably be 
> enhanced easily. This proxy was mostly to be a small replacement for the 
> large InstallManager.exe and sword.exe which made the compression for 
> the nsis installer be slow.)
> My 2¢ worth
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "DM Smith" <dmsmith555 at yahoo.com>
> To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum" <sword-devel at crosswire.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 8:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [sword-devel] BibleCS Installer
>> Lynn,
>> I just have one aspect left: On uninstall, don't wack installed 
>> modules if there is another registered "CrossWire" application.
>> While this doesn't do everything on your wish list, I think it goes a 
>> long way toward it.
>> For the last few weekends, I thought I'd get it done, but something 
>> always came up. Maybe, I can get it done tonight.
>> Yes, you have noticed that I have spread myself a bit thin. In spare 
>> cycles I am working on cleaning up the KJV2003. Almost ready to check 
>> it in and make it available for edits.
>> In His Service,
>>    DM
>> L.Allan-pbio wrote:
>>> Just thought I'd check what the status of the BibleCS installer was. 
>>> There was a big flurry of posts in early Feb, but I was wondering if 
>>> I missed the actual "release candidate". The last SVN entry is from 
>>> September.
>>> Not meaning to be impatient, as I observe with gratitude (and awe) 
>>> the large number of different aspects of The CrossWire Bible Society 
>>> that you are working on. "Well done, good and faithful (and 
>>> profitable) servant." I would like to release an update of LcdBible 
>>> with compatible installer, and hesitate to proceed until a number of 
>>> pending issues and questions related to the BibleCS installer are 
>>> resolved.
>>> _______________________________________________
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