[sword-devel] New Accented Greek NT with Morph

DM Smith dmsmith555 at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 23 11:05:48 MST 2005

Chris Little wrote:

> DM Smith wrote:
>> Personally, I think that <milestone> with x- types should generally 
>> be avoided, unless they are standardized by Sword or OSIS. Also, OSIS 
>> is removing milestone begin and milestone end. I don't think we 
>> should use them for that purpose. Using them for a state change is 
>> using them as implicit begin/end markers. My selfish perspective is 
>> that milestones that represent a state change in the flow of a 
>> document are difficult to handle in XSLT. (Milestones that are truly 
>> point in document events, that don't mark the beginning or end, 
>> implicitly or explicitly, are not a problem.)
> <milestoneStart> and <milestoneEnd> were deprecated when the sID and 
> eID attributes were added to milestoneable elements. It's simply a 
> different method of encoding the same information. So now you would 
> use <q sID="id"/>...<q eID="id"/> instead of <milestoneStart 
> type="q"/>...<milestoneEnd type="q"/>. <milestone> itself is still 
> valid and approved of.

I understand the necessity of milestoneable elements. While they do 
cause challenges for XSLT writers, that is a necessity they have to face.

> We could put script information of existing elements if there were a 
> consistent way to do that. E.g. we could put one value on every book 
> <div> but put other values only on <foreign> elements, but this would 
> only work if all foreign strings were actually marked as such. It 
> might be possible in some cases to automate this markup, but it would 
> probably need some hand tuning to result in valid documents in other 
> cases.

The nature of the Sword API and JSword is that it grabs one or more 
verses and presents them to the user. Since the document context (e.g. 
work element) is not readily available, Sword use the module's conf to 
carry the module's global meta/control data (e.g. Direction, Global 
Options, Filters, Language) that is very useful in rendering a verse in 
isolation. For example, I don't remember seeing xml:lang in the WLC, TR 
or other works.

> If you JUST want to indicate ranges over which a single script is 
> used, one of the general purpose tags is necessary: <seg> or 
> <milestone>. But <seg> is not milestonable, so <milestone> would have 
> to be used to cross container boundaries that might appear. Using 
> beginning/end (i.e. implicit container) semantics with <milestone> is 
> already standard in OSIS. Those are the semantics used with the 
> "column", "line", "pb", and "halfLife" types (indeed, arguably all 
> types except "cQuote").

With the elimination of <milestoneStart> and <milestoneEnd>, I (perhaps 
wrongly) understand this that <milestone 
type='x-start-suchNso'/>...<milestone type='x-end-suchNso'/> is 
discouraged. According to the OSIS documentation it is to be used as a 
"point event" marker. Using <milestone type='x-change-script' 
script='xxx'/> seems to be a variation of using begin and end. I guess 
it can be argued that it is a point event marker, but I think that there 
are better mechanisms already in place, but not used.  As you suggest below.

> Of course, that doesn't solve your problem with writing XSLTs at all. :)

And obviously, even though I don't like your suggestion of using 
<milestone> to mark a transition from one script to another, it is still 
equivalent to add the script attribute to a milestoneable element such 
as <q>. And this we have to be able to handle.

> I think the best solution is probably one that involves a good 
> document encoder who actually sets the script attribute on container 
> elements that already occur in the document (or <seg>s if none occur 
> in some instances), which was really the attribute's intended purpose. 
> Do you have any better ideas? Or even just any other ideas?


I don't think that it is necessary to mark up every div or seg. Only the 
ones that differ from the document's norm need the markup.

I would be happy if xml:lang or script were added to <note> elements 
when it differed from the xml:lang or script of the document.

By the way, I think it would be good for Sword to publish what it sees 
as OSIS best practices. (I also think it would be good if OSIS would do 
the same, as it is not explicit.) I understand that this would be a 
changing set as the standard matures.

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