[sword-devel] Print Bible Features

[Jimmie Houchin]

Hi Chris.

Thanks for the information.

Comments below.

Chris Little wrote:
> Many English Bibles are related, so it's not surprising that the KJV, ASV, 
> RSV, NASB, NRSV, Webster, Revised Webster, NASB Update, NEB, REB, etc. 
> would all have virtually identical versifications.  Other modern 
> translations (e.g. the NIV) will also follow something very close to this 
> versification because it has become expected.  But even within our set of 
> English Bibles, I've produced some texts that required section headings to 
> go in the middle of a verse, and others that never did this--so they are 
> definitely marking them differently.
> 
> Some of the original language texts you mentioned, namely the LXX & 
> Vulgate, have been re-versified to match the KJV versification in the 
> editions we currently have posted.  (Replacements in OSIS format are ready 
> for import & release as soon as Sword supports different versifications 
> better.)
>
> Additionally, you should not look at the NT, which only has 3 verses worth
> of versification differences, plus the shorter/longer Mark, in any Bible.  
> Typical Catholic & Protestant versifications vary greatly in the OT, and
> they also differ from both the Hebrew & LXX texts.
> 
> So it's not reasonable to apply data based on any one translation across 
> all translations, even within a single language.

I was at CCEL looking for the original of the MHC so that I could read 
it externally from Sword. I haven't studied how to access zcom modules.
I was looking at one page at CCEL and it was discussing versification 
and OSIS. I haven't read it yet, but it looked informative. I'm bound to 
get educated.

> But that's really not what's at issue....
> 
> In the Sword Project, we don't alter data.  Other groups do that, to the 
> point that you really have no idea what is actually part of the work you 
> thought you were reading and which portions are the invention of a 
> software developer who thought he knew better than its authors.

Understood and greatly appreciated from my viewpoint. It maintains 
integrity of texts. And not at all what I was asking or talking about. 
Everything I want would be external to any text. Possibly significantly 
dependent on knowledge and markup of such, but completely independent.

> Cross-references, book introductions, prefaces, section headings, etc. all 
> represent interpretations of a work.  When the translator or publisher 
> provides these items, we include them if possible.  If they are absent 
> from the work, we don't add them from an independent source.
> 
> Take any two English study Bibles and compare the book introductions.  Are 
> they the same?  So which one would we choose as being so obviously 
> superior that we include it will every Bible, despite its probably taking 
> a certain sectarian perspective that differs from many of our Bibles?
> 
> Or consider two translators who include cross-references.  One chooses to 
> include some verse as a cross-reference, while another specifically 
> decides to exlude it.  Whose opinion do we favor?  The answer, is 
> hopefully, both, but only for their respective translations.

Since what I was discussing, proposing and will be doing is completely 
independent of any text and potentially cooperative with any KJV 
versification text, this isn't an issue.

Just like Sword makes no favor or value judgements on any other text it 
offers, non would be necessary here.

In fact the texts I will discover, harvest, create don't necessarily 
have to be included in Sword. I plan on writing software which can take 
advantage of them. With regard to cross references, TSK handles that 
pretty well. With regard to dictionary, BDB, Thayer, et al handle that 
well.

With regard to MHC(C) x:0 and any other intro or book texts, harmonies, 
etc. these can simply be commentary modules which are key to books and 
chapters synced with the Bible text displayed, or by the commentary UI I 
proposed in a reply to Barry. No favor, no endorsement by Sword project 
required or necessary. People can use them or not as they choose, just 
as they do with MHC(C), JFB, RWP, Scofield, etc.

> This isn't meant to discourage you, if you really want to produce a print 
> text, it should not be too difficult.  Take a Bible of your choosing that 
> uses the KJV versification; add introductions from something like Darby's 
> introductions; add cross-refs from the Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge.  
> You can probably add a set of section headings from a Bible outline and 
> add a gospel harmony from a list of parallel NT passages.

No discouragement. :)

I primarily was exploring to make sure I wasn't working at doing 
something already available. Some of it will be appropriate and usable 
for use within Sword as any other information. Some will be merely 
subset data appropriate for printing. That will be less valuable for 
software but valuable for export to print.

Hopefully this clarifies what I was looking for and expecting. I am not 
really asking anything of the Sword project other than possible 
acceptance of harvested materials which do offer value and are 
acceptable to the Sword project. If not, that's fine too. It doesn't 
slow me down or stop my goals.

Thanks for the informative discussion. Please make any comments you wish 
on my above statements.

Jimmie Houchin