[Fwd: [sword-devel] FACTS]

Troy A. Griffitts sword-devel@crosswire.org
Sun, 05 Jan 2003 16:15:13 -0700

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Forwarded message from Larry.  He has a very untraditional way of 
quoting and responding to email, so see the bottom text beginning with 
'*' for his response.  Anyone know what he's talking about?  He still 
won't be specific.  I've never heard of Larry Nelson or Sulu Kelly.  Any 
modules that I ever converted from OLB texts were downloaded years ago 
and were all pd works to my knowledge.  This was done with Larry's 
knowledge and he only asked that we not PUBLICLY DISTRIBUTE the 
conversion tools-- which we never have done (only has been distributed 
on our developer lists)  I also believe these texts have all been 
replaced by more reliable sources than OLB, as Larry seems to have a 
tendency to modify classic works with his own additions, and we'd like 
to be more true to the originals.

	You requested one of our CDs a couple months back, which I freely sent 
you.  May I ask you one more time to PLEASE be SPECIFIC as to what you 
feel we are distributing that is under your copyright?  Please use the 
unique abbreviation that we've assigned to the text which can be found 
on the TAB for that text in the windows software, or in Help|About from 
the menu.  We are willing to comply if you would just make your case and 
please be specific.  I currently know of no texts available from our 
website that are not either classical PD works which are out of 
copyright, or else works which we have specifically obtained permission 
from the copyright holder.

One last time, just to be clear.  I'm asked you to give me a specific 
list of module names from our CD and we will consider these on a case by 
case basis.


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Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:42:19 -0500
From: Larry Pierce <103526.2724@compuserve.com>
Subject: [sword-devel] FACTS
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I've been in recent dialog with Larry for about 2 months now.  I've done
everything I know how-- recently and through the years-- to try to please
him, even honoring unfounded claims of copyright that he makes. I'm not
sure why he's been so rash in his correspondence lately.

The short of it is that I have asked him to SPECIFICALLY list what he
claims as _his_, and what he doesn't want us to distribute.  The
KJV+strongs was one thing.  We've started our KJV2003 project to replace
the module that DID come from OLB.  I asked Larry a number of years ago for
permission to distribute this.  He told me that it was ok, as long as our
project remained free.  He also stated that he wanted to exchange a
 IT'S MY FAULT.  But I do have the old email somewhere on a backup, and in
the spirit of the email I received from him, I understood that we did have
permission and from that email WE WERE NEVER ASKED TO NOT DISTRIBUTE this
text.  2 months ago I received 2 emails from users quoting Larry calling us
thieves for using this text.  I wrote Larry, asking about it and he claimed
we stole it and everything else we distribute from the OLB CD.  For the
record: I have NEVER had in my possession an OLB CD.  We've gone round and
round for 2 months about it.
  I told him that I would respect his request to discontinue distribution
of it, but in the spirit of his previous email granting permission, I felt
it was only fair to continue distributing until a replacement could be
made.  I said Jan 1, 2003.  He didn't comment on this, so I think he
thought that was fine.  On Jan 1, I told him that our KJV2003 was not yet
complete, and asked if he would allow us a little more time.  I told him I
would immediately remove the module if he decided not to.  He's criticized
the validity of our KJV2003 project since then, and still hasn't commented
on this last request.  That's were we stand now.

There are 2 other modules that he has specifically named as his own. They
are lexicons and, to use his words: *The ones containing Info to TWOT and
TDNT and the counts for the AV

I'm guessing these are our Thayer and BDB lexicons.  The Thayer and BDB
works are indeed in the public domain.  They have been listed as such on
many websites and even in commercial apps like BibleWorks (where I think
our latest version came from-- Chris?).

I think he might have added the AV counts, and if so, we can remove that
information and anything else that isn't in the original work (if we would
have known they weren't in the original work, we would have _fixed_ it long

Larry threatened me with this Hall of Shame thing.  I told him that was
fine, I didn't have anything to hide or of which to be ashamed and would
just publicly post all of our correspondence and let the public decide.
  I'm still considering this.

I've invited Larry to join our efforts and offered our services to him many
times in the past.  Please pray that Larry would have a collaborative,
brotherly spirit regarding these matters.  As for the legality of the same,
please let me know if anyone knows ANYTHING we've done to illegally impose
on Larry's rights.  I can't seem to figure out what to do to make Larry

        God's Peace,
                -Troy A. Griffitts

*Remove all material you took from the Online Bible, Larry Nelson and Sulu
Kelly for starters.

You cannot point to one thing that I have said that is not factually