[sword-devel] Accusations...

Troy A. Griffitts sword-devel@crosswire.org
Sun, 05 Jan 2003 01:37:50 -0700

I've been in recent dialog with Larry for about 2 months now.  I've done 
everything I know how-- recently and through the years-- to try to 
please him, even honoring unfounded claims of copyright that he makes. 
I'm not sure why he's been so rash in his correspondence lately.

The short of it is that I have asked him to SPECIFICALLY list what he 
claims as _his_, and what he doesn't want us to distribute.  The 
KJV+strongs was one thing.  We've started our KJV2003 project to replace 
the module that DID come from OLB.  I asked Larry a number of years ago 
for permission to distribute this.  He told me that it was ok, as long 
as our project remained free.  He also stated that he wanted to exchange 
a _hardcopy_ agreement on it.  I NEVER FOLLOWED UP WITH A HARDCOPY 
AGREEMENT.  IT'S MY FAULT.  But I do have the old email somewhere on a 
backup, and in the spirit of the email I received from him, I understood 
that we did have permission and from that email WE WERE NEVER ASKED TO 
NOT DISTRIBUTE this text.  2 months ago I received 2 emails from users 
quoting Larry calling us thieves for using this text.  I wrote Larry, 
asking about it and he claimed we stole it and everything else we 
distribute from the OLB CD.  For the record: I have NEVER had in my 
possession an OLB CD.  We've gone round and round for 2 months about it. 
  I told him that I would respect his request to discontinue 
distribution of it, but in the spirit of his previous email granting 
permission, I felt it was only fair to continue distributing until a 
replacement could be made.  I said Jan 1, 2003.  He didn't comment on 
this, so I think he thought that was fine.  On Jan 1, I told him that 
our KJV2003 was not yet complete, and asked if he would allow us a 
little more time.  I told him I would immediately remove the module if 
he decided not to.  He's criticized the validity of our KJV2003 project 
since then, and still hasn't commented on this last request.  That's 
were we stand now.

There are 2 other modules that he has specifically named as his own. 
They are lexicons and, to use his words: *The ones containing Info to 
TWOT and TDNT and the counts for the AV

I'm guessing these are our Thayer and BDB lexicons.  The Thayer and BDB 
works are indeed in the public domain.  They have been listed as such on 
many websites and even in commercial apps like BibleWorks (where I think 
our latest version came from-- Chris?).

I think he might have added the AV counts, and if so, we can remove that 
information and anything else that isn't in the original work (if we 
would have known they weren't in the original work, we would have 
_fixed_ it long ago).

Larry threatened me with this Hall of Shame thing.  I told him that was 
fine, I didn't have anything to hide or of which to be ashamed and would 
just publicly post all of our correspondence and let the public decide. 
  I'm still considering this.

I've invited Larry to join our efforts and offered our services to him 
many times in the past.  Please pray that Larry would have a 
collaborative, brotherly spirit regarding these matters.  As for the 
legality of the same, please let me know if anyone knows ANYTHING we've 
done to illegally impose on Larry's rights.  I can't seem to figure out 
what to do to make Larry happy.

	God's Peace,
		-Troy A. Griffitts

Levey wrote:
 > I have followed your work for years and occasionally look at your
 > source or try one of your projects.  I used to mostly use the Online
 > Bible, which you thanked in your online materials, and now mostly the
 > eSword program.
 > I was surprised then to find a "hall of shame" on their site listing
 > you (and eSword) as villains who are stealing their work (
 > http://www.onlinebible.net/hallofshame.html ).  What gives here?  I
 > thought you had permission -- or none was needed -- to use their
 > files.  Could you please comment on this.  They are using strong
 > language towards you: "Sword Project. Troy blatantly lifted all the
 > material from the Online Bible CD and then claimed it as public
 > domain. We have a registered copyright with the
 > Library of Congress which states otherwise. Troy is running a "Bible
 > Society" founded on stolen material."
 > Please give me your input on this.  I'm really surprised they have
 > taken this stance.  So far as I know you do not distribute locked
 > modules and are not a commercial enterprise.
 > Thanks.  Paul Levey.