<div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>I'm feeling a bit alone here now - quite a few questions still remain unanswered after several days, and they are rather crucial for me to continue my work.</div><div><br></div>
<div>To make answering easier, I'll sum up some more: there are now three fundamental questions that need answers - all other questions are actually derived from trying to solve them. So if you can't find answers to these three (marked with Roman numbers I...III), feel free to help with the previous ones (Arabic numbers 1...7 - or actually 2...6; 1 and 7 are the same as I and III).</div>
<div><br></div><div>---------------------------</div><div><br></div><div><font color="#6600cc"><b>I.</b> How do I markup a single but compound cross-reference that refers to non-adjacent verses or ranges, so that it (structurally) differs from a (more typical) note containing separate references to the same verses/ranges?</font></div>
<div><font color="#6600cc"><br></font></div><div><font color="#6600cc"><b>II.</b> How do I markup a reference to a note whose source is more complex than just one verse or a contiguous range?</font></div><div><font color="#6600cc"><br>
</font></div><div><font color="#6600cc"><b>III.</b> Is it possible to have a reference's osisRef with a sub-identifier without a corresponding osisID having that (or any) sub-identifier?</font></div><div class="im">
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><b><br></b></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
Example:</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font color="#990000"><verse osisID="<b>Deut.32.15</b>" sID="Deut.32.15" />Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.<verse eID="Deut.32.15" /></font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<font color="#990000"><reference osisRef="<b>Deut.32.15!part2</b>"></font></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------</div><div><br></div></div><div>And then to the wider variety of derived questions. No need to read further if you managed to answer all three previous ones :).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div><div>I tried running different kinds of osisIDs through a validator integrated to oXygen. As expected, a hyphen in an osisID wouldn't validate. But the list of multiple space-separated single IDs does pass the validation.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Well, if we trust in what passes through the validator, I get answers to many of my own questions (IF we trust the validator, that is):</div><div><br></div><div><font color="#3333ff" style="font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><b>2)</b> Is listing multiple individual osisIDs separated by a space really allowed in <b>a)</b>osisIDs <b>b)</b> osisRefs?</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">a) YES and b) YES, e</span>ven though after carefully examining the type declarations for osisRefRegex and osisIDRegex in the osisCore.2.1.1.xsd file I still haven't found out how the spaces could be valid.</div>
<div class="im">
<div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><font color="#3333ff" style="font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><b>3)</b> If the answer to 2a) is yes, what is allowed with a compound ID like that? </font></div>
</div><div>It seems that any valid osisID will do as a component of such a compound osisID. </div><div class="im"><div><br></div><div><font color="#3333ff" style="font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Specifically, can I use sub-identifiers?</font><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span></div>
</div><div>Thus: YES. But the exclamation mark and sub-identifier will need to be attached to one of the component IDs, it can't follow a space.</div><div class="im"><div><br></div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<font color="#3333ff"><b>4)</b> If the answer to 2b) is yes, what is allowed in that compound ref? Specifically, are ranges allowed in such compound refs?</font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
</div></div></div><div>Trying with a validator, it seems: YES. For example, this is judged valid:</div><div><font color="#990000">osisRef="Gen.1.3 Gen.1.5-Gen.1.7 Gen.2.2-Gen.2.5"</font></div><div>even though Durusay's manual says that "a single osisRef cannot identify a discontiguous range of a work".</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>This would seem to provide a step closer to being able to refer to notes with the more complex sources I've been talking about (question II.), although not quite. [Note that this wouldn't apply to normal compound references to verses].</div>
<div><br></div><div>This would be valid:</div><div class="im"><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px;color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type="crossReference" osisID="</span><b style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px;color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17!crossReference</b><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px;color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
</div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">...</span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"><reference osisRef="</span><b style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17!crossReference</b><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">">Deut. 32.15,17</reference></span></div>
</div><div><br></div></div><div>although !crossReference being attached only to verse 17 gives a slightly false impression. Moreover, this would not be valid:</div><div><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type="crossReference" osisID="</span><b style="font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15 Deut.32.17-Deut.32.22!crossReference</b><span style="font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
<div>because of the hyphen in an osisID.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>My next idea would be rather unorthodox, and I hope you consider twice before answering "no, of course that can't be done". I would love to solve this problem in a beautiful, "standard OSIS" way. But since nobody has given me a sufficient answer to how to do it, it seems I need to get creative, with the cost of some "standard" conventions.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The osisRefRegex and osisIDRegex type declarations (and thus also validators) allow some slightly peculiar formats, including "1.Gen.2", "1.2.Gen", "1_.2", "1._.2" and even "_". Of course there is usually no reason to use these forms.</div>
<div><br></div><div><div><font color="#3333ff"><b>7)</b> Would something like this be acceptable?</font></div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type="crossReference" osisID="</span><b style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15.Deut.32.17!crossReference</b><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">
<span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">...</span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:12.800000190734863px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"><reference osisRef="</span><b style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15.Deut.32.17!crossReference</b><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">">Deut. 32.15,17</reference></span></div>
</div><div>or </div></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px;color:rgb(153,0,0)"><note type="crossReference" osisID="</span><b style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px;color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut.32.15.Deut.32.17.Deut.32.22_Deut.32.26!crossReference</b><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.800000190734863px;color:rgb(153,0,0)">"></span></div>
<div><br></div><div>Funny as they look, they really are valid OSIS. So: what reasons are there NOT to use them? I would of course document this convention carefully. I emphasize the fact that I do need a way to refer to *notes* in addition to verses and ranges. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Well, hopefully some of this is answerable.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks again in advance, and sorry for bothering you with such long messages.</div><div><br></div><div>Markku</div><div><br></div><div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>21. Nov 2012 Markku Pihlaja:<div><div class="h5"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thanks for the reply,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2012/11/21 <span dir="ltr"><<a>davidtroidl@aol.com</a>></span><br><div>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<font color="black" face="arial"><font color="#990000">Deut. 32:15,17,22–26<font> could be marked up<br>
<font><reference osisRef="Deut.32.15">Deut. 32:15</reference>, </font></font></font><font color="#990000"><font><font><font color="#990000"><font><font><reference osisRef="Deut.32.17">17</reference>, </font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font color="#990000"><font><font><reference osisRef="Deut.32.22-Deut.32.26">22-26</reference><br>
</font></font></font></blockquote><div> </div><div>I've tried explaining this earlier: that just isn't enough for us here.</div><div><br></div><div>There would be no structural difference between a note containing that one compound reference that consists of three verses (or ranges), and a note containing a list of three separate references. The only difference might be in the separator tokens, but those are outside the markup and shouldn't count.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I'll make the problem even clearer: how do you markup this list of four different references (I'll mark each with a different color)?</div><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">Deut. 32:15</span>;<span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"> </span><font color="#009900">Deut. 32.17</font>;<span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"> </span><font color="#6600cc">Deut. 22-26</font>;<span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)"> </span><font color="#00cccc">Deut. 32:15,17,22–26</font></div>
<div><br></div><div>This one is of course a rather imaginary and unreal example - there would probably never be a list where the three verses/ranges are first individual references and then form a compound one - but using the same verses here shows the problem more clearly.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The note marker appearing in the text for this whole list of four references should be one single note, not four, so (as stated previously in this discussion by DM) all these should be packaged within just one pair of <note> tags.</div>
<div><br></div><div>What you're suggesting would be a list of six separate references, the three last ones just being separated with commas instead of semicolons, and the "Deut." being omitted from the content part of the last two - but those separators and the missing book names are content instead of structure markup. Structurally that would be the identical three references listed twice.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color="#990000"><font><font>
<font>osisID's are meant to be unique identifiers for <font>book, chapter and verse elements in a bible. They should not be used in notes<font>, and they should not cont<font>ain multiple references</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>I don't quite agree, at least on not being for use in notes, and nor does Durusau's manual. For instance lines 2, 5, 8 and 11 in the example on page 45 show notes with osisID's. Also, osisID is listed as one of the attributes of the note element (as well as basically any other element, too).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Isn't the main purpose of an ID to be used for referring to the element it represents, regardless of the element's type? And I do need to be able to refer to notes here, so the obvious (and maybe even only?) way would be using the osisID. I just need to find a good way of naming notes with a source more complex than just one verse, and referring to them.</div>
<div><br></div><div>--------------</div><div><br></div><div>About osisIDs not being able to contain multiple references: about this, too, the Durusau manual disagrees. On page 89 there's the example</div><div><font color="#990000"><p osisID="Matt.1.1 Matt.1.2 Matt.1.3">...</p></font>,</div>
<div>although I did wonder about the correctness of this in my previous message, since I couldn't find such syntax in the OSIS schema.</div><div><br></div><div>But if osisIDs really are only able to refer to one verse, then I hope someone can suggest an alternative method for what I need to do.</div>
<div><br></div><div> Markku</div><div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div>
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