<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>On Nov 14, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Markku Pihlaja <<a href="mailto:markku.pihlaja@sempre.fi">markku.pihlaja@sempre.fi</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">I'll also need to return to some questions that already got answered ages ago - halfway to meet my final needs, as it now turned out.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">2012/4/26 David Troidl <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:DavidTroidl@aol.com" target="_blank">DavidTroidl@aol.com</a>></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font size="1" color="#999999">1)<br>
How should I encode cross-references to non-contiguous verse
ranges? For example, I have this reference (in our standard
notation): Matt. 27:17,22. This is formally just one
reference to verses 17 and 22, not two separate references.
OSIS requires that "a single osisRef cannot identify a
discontiguous range of a work". So how should this be done?
Making one note that contains two references might be a step
towards what I want, but there would still be two separate
references.<br></font></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><font size="1" color="#999999">Here is the way to encode discontiguous references:<br>
<note type="crossReference"><reference
osisRef="Matt.27.17">Matt. 27:17</reference>, <reference
osisRef="Matt.27.22">22</reference></note></font><br>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So, when I have a list of separate references, some of which are non-contiguous ones such as above, should I create a nested note to contain the different notes?</div><div><br></div>
<div>For example, if I have the following three references for one verse:</div><div><font color="#990000">Matt. 27:17,22 ; 2. Sam. 7:16; Matt. 9:27</font></div><div><br></div><div>should that be coded as:</div><div><br></div>
<div><font color="#990000"><note type="crossreference"></font></div><div><div><font color="#990000"> <note type="crossreference"></font></div><div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="Matt.27.17">Matt. 27:17</reference>, </font></div>
<div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="Matt.27.22">22</reference></font></div><div><font color="#990000"> </note>;</font></div></div><div><div><font color="#990000"> <note type="crossreference"></font></div>
<div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="2Sam.7.16">2. Sam. 7:16</reference></font></div><div><font color="#990000"> </note>;</font></div></div><div><div><div><font color="#990000"> <note type="crossreference"></font></div>
<div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="Matt.9.27">Matt. 9:27</reference></font></div><div><font color="#990000"> </note></font></div></div><div></div></div><div><font color="#990000"></note></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>No. Don't nest.</div><div>You can also use references such as <reference osisRef="Matt.27.17 Matt.27.22 2Sam.7.16 Matt.9.27">Matt 27:17,22; 2 Sam 7:16; Matt 9:27</reference>.</div><div>Note that some systems (e.g. SWORD Project) cannot handle this. And having 4 refs is better.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br></div><div>Putting all the <reference>'s within just one <note> container would to me mean one reference to extremely non-contiguous verses. And if I omit the outer <note> tags, then the semicolon separators between the different notes would fall outside any note and be rendered even when notes are hidden.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If that suggestion was right, what should we do in simpler cases where there is a group of contiguous references?Should I still enclose them in a second level of <note>'s for consistency, or would it be ok to use only one level like this (assuming here that there is no 27:22 in the first reference):</div>
<div><br></div><div><div><font color="#990000"><note type="crossreference"></font></div><div><div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="Matt.27.17">Matt. 27:17</reference>;</font></div>
<div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="2Sam.7.16">2. Sam. 7:16</reference>;</font></div></div><div><div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisRef="Matt.9.27">Matt. 9:27</reference></font></div>
</div><div><font color="#990000"></note></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Just one level. Just like this.</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
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<font size="1" color="#999999">3)<br>
Our cross-references are currently listed on a
verse-by-verse basis in a separate file. Each verse might
have a number of references, most of them separated by a
semi-colon. However, in some cases the separator is the
vertical line character, | (or the pipe sign). This
indicates a fine grained division of the source verse.
That's *source*, not target. For example,<br>
Luuk. 2:4-7 ¦ Dan. 1:20<br>
would say that the beginning of the referring verse refers
to Luke 2:4-7, and the end to Daniel 1:20. There can be up
to 4 divisions like this in one verse. However, there is no
automatic way of determining what the exact division of the
source verse is. In fact, in some cases even I can't read
the verse and tell the division without reading the
referenced verses first.<br>
<br>
This means that in any case I'll probably need to leave the
OSIS coding vague in this respect. My question here: is
there a way to somehow indicate the existence of this
division within the tags, or is the only way to continue
marking it like it was done until now, like this:<br>
<reference section1a.... />; <reference
section1b.... /> | <reference section2.... /> |
<reference section3a.... />; <reference
section3b.... /><br>
<br>
Could that be done by using osisID's like<br>
Matt.1.1!crossReference.section1.a<br>
Matt.1.1!crossReference.section1.b etc.<br>
or is there a better way?<span><br>
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I'm not exactly clear what you are asking here. If you want to mark
up the notes, without changing the markup of the Bible text, you
could use word numbers within the verse, to indicate where the note
applies.</font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>And I'm not quite clear if I got your point :).</div><div>Let me give you a quite precise example.</div><div><br></div><div><div>This is Acts 3:13:</div><div>
<font color="#990000">"The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go."</font></div>
<div><br></div></div><div>For that verse, we have three different references which are marked like this:</div><div><font color="#990000">Exod. 3:6 | Isa. 52:13 | Luke 23:16</font></div><div>The | separators (as opposed to semicolons that are normally used as separators in reference lists) indicate that the Exodus reference is related to the beginning of our verse, the Isaiah reference to the middle part and the Luke reference to the end.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As you can see, even though the reference list applies that there are three sections in the verse, there is no automatic way of determining what exactly are "the beginning", "the middle" and "the end", or sections 1, 2 and 3 of that verse. In some cases it is even unclear after you've carefully read the verse and the references and tried to use common sense based on the contents to manually figure out what those sections are. So the aim of placing the reference notes separately in the text exactly where they should appear is rather impossible.</div>
<div><br></div><div>My question is: is there a way of indicating in a reference itself that the source of the reference is some sub-part of the verse? In this way, applications might be able to e.g. show an extra tag "from middle of verse" or something like that. Could we use subdivided osisID's for this purpose, like this:</div>
<div><br></div><div><font color="#990000"><note type="cross-reference"></font></div><div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisID="Acts.3.13!crossReference.1" osisRef="Exod.3.6">Exod. 3:6</reference> |</font></div>
<div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisID="Acts.3.13.crossreference.2" osisRef="Isa.52.13">Isa. 52:13</reference> |</font></div><div><font color="#990000"> <reference osisID="Acts.3.13.crossreference.3" osisRef="Luke.23.16">Luke 23:16</reference></font></div>
<div><font color="#990000"></note></font></div><div><br></div><div>and with even further fine-tuning if there were for example two references before the first "|":</div><div><font color="#990000">osisID="Acts.3.13!crossReference.1.a"</font> and <font color="#990000">osisID="Acts.3.13!crossReference.1.b" </font>?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>From memory, there is a grain part of the osisID/osisRef that can be used to indicate the code points (think characters) that comprise the sub-part. It is used like SUBSTR in many programming languages.</div><div><br></div><div>However, If you are going to go to that much trouble then I'd suggest that you split the note into various parts and put them into the proper locations in the file.</div><div><br></div><div>The basic idea of the <note> element is that it appears in the source at the position that you want the marker(s). If you want one marker, then you have one note. If you want 3 then you have 3.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope this helps,</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>DM</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail_quote">
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for your patience, these are rather hard to explain exactly and understandably but in short :).</div></div></div><div><br></div><div>Markku</div><div><br></div>
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