From todd at contentframeworks.com  Mon Nov  1 10:31:18 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Mon Nov  1 10:24:18 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Chapter title
In-Reply-To: <4180DDBA.2020806@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c4c038$9d6bb640$646fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Patrick,

(<div type="chapter"> is not for Bibles but for chapter books.)

The original post mentions:
Chapter_Head - This seems like a the <title> of a chapter in the same
way that a <div> has a section.  As Chris pointed out there is no type
attribute needed because it follows the <chapter> container (either
milestoned or XML container version).
Chapter_Label - in USFM terms this is just the label that precedes the
number ("Chapter" and not "Chapter 1") but could be repeated for each
chapter.  I think THIS is really a rendering feature.
Chapter_Number - This can be encoded with the "n" attribute of <chapter>
as in <chapter osisID="Ps.1" n="1">.

I don't think the following <title type="chapter"> should be favored and
if we do allow <title type="chapter" then it should be for the
"Chapter_Head" case.  

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE SHOULD NOT DO.
I think what you are suggesting would be:
<div type="book">
   <title type="main" short="Psalm">Psalms</title>
      <chapter osisID="Ps.1" sID="Ps.1" n="1">
	...
	<chapter eID="Ps.6"/>
	<chapter osisID="Ps.7" sID="Ps.7" n="7"/>
      <div type="section">
         <title type="chapter">Psalm 7</title>
         <title type="psalm">A shigaion of David, which he sang to the
<divineName>LORD</divineName> concerning Cush, a Benjamite.</title>
            <lg>...
               ...
This case SHOULD NOT BE favored by the schema with a type attribute
because "Psalm 7" is simply a rendering issue.

Todd
> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:54 AM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] Chapter title
> 
> Chris,
> 
> Chris Little wrote:
> >
> >
> > Patrick Durusau wrote:
> >
> >> Jim,
> >>
> >> Cutting to Chapter title:
> >>
> >> Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think value="chapter" would work
> >>>
> >>
> >> So adding chapter to osisTitles would cover this case?
> >
> >
> > This was in OSIS 1.0. We dropped it because it was deemed redundant.
> >
> > If you have an element and it has a child <title> element, then the
type
> > of the <title> element would always be the type of its parent. So
> > (according to our logic at the time we dropped
book/chapter/section/...
> > as title types) <title> children should just be assumed to be titles
of
> > their parent's types, thus allowing us to use type on <title> for
other
> > things like 'main' and 'sub'.
> >
> 
> Sorry, that went by a little fast.
> 
> If I have,
> 
> <div type="chapter">
> 
> then <title type="main">
> 
> then <title type="sub'>
> 
> I have chapter-main title and chapter-sub title?
> 
> Just making sure I understand your reconstruction of the decision.
> 
> Hmmm, does have a certain elegance to it.
> 
> Jim?
> 
> Hope everyone is having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > --Chris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osis-core mailing list
> > osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core

From todd at contentframeworks.com  Mon Nov  1 10:38:28 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Mon Nov  1 10:31:34 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Re: Doxology
In-Reply-To: <41801978.8050509@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c4c039$9cab08e0$646fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Patrick and Jim,

I am not sure from looking at the NIV case that there is any difference
in the text it self and it looks like a pure rendering convention to
center the last line that ends a "book" in Psalms unless that line is a
"discourse marker" type of text like "Praise the LORD".

Are there other cases?

Todd



> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:56 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Cc: Jeff_Gayle@sil.org; osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] Re: Doxology
> 
> Jim,
> 
> 
> >
> > So is the doxology the line group where the last line is centered?
> > <<<<<<<<<<<< yes but see REV 4:8-10 (NIV) as several lines are
centered
> as doxology
> >
> >
> 
> Good example.
> 
> So, are we agreed that doxolgy is a type on lg?
> 
> Recall that I can do more specific styles that take over in place of
> general ones.
> 
> That is to say I may have a general doxology style that always centers
> the last line (cf the example I cited earlier where that does not
> happen), and then a specific doxology style that keys on the book or
> book plus div in the osisID and applies a different style to any
> doxology in that particular book/div.
> 
> In the case you mention, all the lines in the doxology may be
centered,
> but only in this particular book and chapter.
> 
> It is only one of the advantages of using the tree structure with IDs.
> The styling can be as uniform or as unique as you choose to make it,
all
> without editing the XML file.
> 
> Hope you are having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Mon Nov  1 10:38:28 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Mon Nov  1 10:31:34 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Re: Doxology
In-Reply-To: <41801978.8050509@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c4c039$9cab08e0$646fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Patrick and Jim,

I am not sure from looking at the NIV case that there is any difference
in the text it self and it looks like a pure rendering convention to
center the last line that ends a "book" in Psalms unless that line is a
"discourse marker" type of text like "Praise the LORD".

Are there other cases?

Todd



> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:56 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Cc: Jeff_Gayle@sil.org; osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] Re: Doxology
> 
> Jim,
> 
> 
> >
> > So is the doxology the line group where the last line is centered?
> > <<<<<<<<<<<< yes but see REV 4:8-10 (NIV) as several lines are
centered
> as doxology
> >
> >
> 
> Good example.
> 
> So, are we agreed that doxolgy is a type on lg?
> 
> Recall that I can do more specific styles that take over in place of
> general ones.
> 
> That is to say I may have a general doxology style that always centers
> the last line (cf the example I cited earlier where that does not
> happen), and then a specific doxology style that keys on the book or
> book plus div in the osisID and applies a different style to any
> doxology in that particular book/div.
> 
> In the case you mention, all the lines in the doxology may be
centered,
> but only in this particular book and chapter.
> 
> It is only one of the advantages of using the tree structure with IDs.
> The styling can be as uniform or as unique as you choose to make it,
all
> without editing the XML file.
> 
> Hope you are having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Mon Nov  1 13:12:59 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Mon Nov  1 13:06:01 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <list> within <list>?
Message-ID: <418698CB.6080405@sbl-site.org>

Greetings,

Due to a corrected example from Jim Albright I think I have found a 
formal error in the schema that has gone undetected by my software.

The schema as currently written allows
<list>
<item></item>
  <list>
  <item></item>
  </list>
<item></item></list>

Whereas I would normally expect:

<list>
<item></item>
<item>
  <list>
  <item></item>
  </list>
</item>
<item></item></list>

Note that the first one does not have the sublist contained in an <item> 
whereas the second one does.

Shouldn't we require the second one?

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Mon Nov  1 14:08:49 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Mon Nov  1 14:01:47 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Date format
Message-ID: <4186A5E1.3030000@sbl-site.org>

Steve,

Todd would like to have monthly:n and equivalent to yearly:n (can't use 
yearly) so it can be repeating dates.

Do you have ISO 8601 at hand as this was the source for the date format 
stuff?

Hope you are having a great week!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Tue Nov  2 11:47:50 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Tue Nov  2 11:41:14 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
Message-ID: <4187D656.2090801@sbl-site.org>

Greetings!

Doing serious work on the date format section.

Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the data 
format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work prefix from 
a work element.

Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and 
yearly.n (to show a day of the year).

Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss

can show:

yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07

or

yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)

but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th day 
of the year.

Same lack noted for monthly.

Would suggest something like:

day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.

Comments, suggestions?

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Tue Nov  2 12:16:25 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Tue Nov  2 12:09:21 2004
Subject: [osis-core] another date format question
Message-ID: <4187DD09.6010408@sbl-site.org>

Greetings!

On enumerating traditional times, ex.

yearly.06.04T~(Vespers)

Should we require the parens? (Todd's question actually)

In other words, the form above or:

~Vespers (or any of the other enumerated times?

Of course, then the question is do we require the '~' which indicates 
approximate time. I don't know but suspect some people don't consider 
the named times to be approximate.

Comments, suggestions?

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  2 12:37:23 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  2 12:30:42 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
In-Reply-To: <4187D656.2090801@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <000d01c4c113$63e41d50$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Patrick,

Why not:
<osisText osisIDRef="dailyDevotional">
   <work osisWork="dailyDevotional">
      <title>Daily Devotional</title>
      <identifier
type="OSIS">Devotional.en.XYZ.DailyDevotional.2004</identifier>
      <refSystem>weeklySystem</refSystem>
   <work>
   <work osisWork="weeklySystem">
      <title>Daily System of Identifiers</title>
      <!-- Where this is an OSIS declared identifier -->
      <identifier type="OSIS">ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Weekly</identifier>

   <work>
   <div osisID="dailyDevotional:5">
      ...
   </div>
</osisText>

Also ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Yearly, ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Monthly,
ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Day.

I would also like to see ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Frame and
ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Millisecond for annotations of media works.

Todd


> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:48 AM
> To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Cc: Todd Tillinghast
> Subject: [osis-core] date format
> 
> Greetings!
> 
> Doing serious work on the date format section.
> 
> Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the
data
> format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work prefix
from
> a work element.
> 
> Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and
> yearly.n (to show a day of the year).
> 
> Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss
> 
> can show:
> 
> yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07
> 
> or
> 
> yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)
> 
> but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th day
> of the year.
> 
> Same lack noted for monthly.
> 
> Would suggest something like:
> 
> day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.
> 
> Comments, suggestions?
> 
> Hope everyone is having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  2 12:38:20 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  2 12:31:15 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <list> within <list>?
In-Reply-To: <418698CB.6080405@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <000e01c4c113$85db55e0$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

I agree not <list> within <list> only in <item>.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 1:13 PM
> To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: [osis-core] <list> within <list>?
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Due to a corrected example from Jim Albright I think I have found a
> formal error in the schema that has gone undetected by my software.
> 
> The schema as currently written allows
> <list>
> <item></item>
>   <list>
>   <item></item>
>   </list>
> <item></item></list>
> 
> Whereas I would normally expect:
> 
> <list>
> <item></item>
> <item>
>   <list>
>   <item></item>
>   </list>
> </item>
> <item></item></list>
> 
> Note that the first one does not have the sublist contained in an
<item>
> whereas the second one does.
> 
> Shouldn't we require the second one?
> 
> Hope everyone is having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  2 13:11:29 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  2 13:04:27 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Question on cit/citation
In-Reply-To: <417FDB77.2090903@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <001401c4c118$273e80c0$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Patrick,

Is this case for "citation" in a Bible or a commentary like work?

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:32 AM
> To: Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org
> Cc: Jeff_Gayle@sil.org; osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Subject: [osis-core] Question on cit/citation
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Trying to collapse several questions into one.
> 
> Just cutting to the cit/citation cases in this response:
> 
> Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org wrote:
> > Thanks for looking at my problem domain.
> >
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > Citation_Line1 (etc): Question, you list lg but I assume l?
> >
> >>>>>><citation> would be preferred
> >>>>>
> >
> > BTW, we have otPassage on seg. So, would <l><seg>...</seg></l>, meet
the
> > need here?
> >
> > Err, actually just looked at the John the Baptist example and so you
> > would want something like otPassage on lg. Hmmm, then you could do
the
> > line1, line2, etc. with XSLT. Actually would reduce the amount of
markup
> > you would need since if I am in a lg type=otPassage, then lines 1,
2,
> > etc. fall out from the structure. I think that works for me if it
works
> > for you.
> >
> >>>>>yes that is where I would want it .... but citation is more
generic
> >>>>>I have cases where in the introduction a key verse in the
following
> >>>>
> > book
> >
> >>>>>is cited ... thus citation rather than otPassage.
> >>>>
> >
> 
> OK, but if I understand the second case (not an otPassage) then don't
> you have a <reference>key verse</reference> in the introduction?
> 
> Maybe it is a difference in terminology but I understand <reference>
to
> be a citation, at least if you mean something like:
> 
> "The key verse in this book to me is <reference>John
1.1</reference>...."
> 
> Close, far away, lost?
> 
> > Citation_Paragraph: Looks like a block quote that contains a
paragraph,
> > which as you know can contain a reference element. I think this is
what
> > we used to call <cit> in TEI, which had a <q> followed by a <ref>
(don't
> > hold me to the names) element.
> >
> >>>>>>Citation Paragraph and Citation Line1 are related ... if we can
put
> >>>>>>a <cit> around them then we only need to put in p, l, ref ....
> >>>>>
> >
> > Not sure what would be different about using a block quote that
contains
> > a reference element.
> >
> >>>>>>>block quote is descriptive
> >>>>>>>citation is meaning based
> >>>>>>
> 
> Yes, but we are making the structure (hence descriptive markup) of the
> text, not its interpretation (meaning).
> 
> Besides, if we want to avoid confusion and inconsistency, then we
don't
> want to have citation and blockQuote with the same content model. Some
> people will use one and some people will use the other.
> 
> >
> > Citation_Reference: Why isn't this simply a reference with a type?
That
> > is to say all references are citation_references in some sense of
the
> > term. Since we have an element for marking all references, why not
use
> > that and add a type if necessary?
> >
> >>>>>>>if we have <cit> or <citation> then just <ref> works ... the
type
> is
> >>>>>>
> > inferred by context
> >
> 
> Sorry, I don't think I made that clear. A reference, at least in my
> experience is always a citation. Perhaps we are using citation
differently.
> 
> Can you say a bit about how you see a citation_reference as being
> different from a reference? Whether I am inside a citation or no, it
is
> still a reference and I assume we want to treat all references the
same
> way? In other words, it does not matter if it is a citation_reference
or
> some other sort of reference, would it?
> 
> Will try to answer a couple of more areas this afternoon but may not
> reach all of them today.
> 
> Hope you are having a great day!
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> --
> Patrick Durusau
> Director of Research and Development
> Society of Biblical Literature
> Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> 
> Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Tue Nov  2 13:28:58 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Tue Nov  2 13:21:56 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
References: <000d01c4c113$63e41d50$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
Message-ID: <4187EE0A.8030202@sbl-site.org>

Todd,

How do the named prayers work in your proposal?

Hope you are having a great day!

Patrick


Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> Patrick,
> 
> Why not:
> <osisText osisIDRef="dailyDevotional">
>    <work osisWork="dailyDevotional">
>       <title>Daily Devotional</title>
>       <identifier
> type="OSIS">Devotional.en.XYZ.DailyDevotional.2004</identifier>
>       <refSystem>weeklySystem</refSystem>
>    <work>
>    <work osisWork="weeklySystem">
>       <title>Daily System of Identifiers</title>
>       <!-- Where this is an OSIS declared identifier -->
>       <identifier type="OSIS">ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Weekly</identifier>
> 
>    <work>
>    <div osisID="dailyDevotional:5">
>       ...
>    </div>
> </osisText>
> 
> Also ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Yearly, ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Monthly,
> ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Day.
> 
> I would also like to see ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Frame and
> ReferenceSystem._.OSIS.Millisecond for annotations of media works.
> 
> Todd
> 
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
>>bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Durusau
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 11:48 AM
>>To: osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>Cc: Todd Tillinghast
>>Subject: [osis-core] date format
>>
>>Greetings!
>>
>>Doing serious work on the date format section.
>>
>>Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the
> 
> data
> 
>>format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work prefix
> 
> from
> 
>>a work element.
>>
>>Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and
>>yearly.n (to show a day of the year).
>>
>>Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss
>>
>>can show:
>>
>>yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07
>>
>>or
>>
>>yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)
>>
>>but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th day
>>of the year.
>>
>>Same lack noted for monthly.
>>
>>Would suggest something like:
>>
>>day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.
>>
>>Comments, suggestions?
>>
>>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>--
>>Patrick Durusau
>>Director of Research and Development
>>Society of Biblical Literature
>>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
>>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>>
>>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>osis-core mailing list
>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 


-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Sun Nov  7 05:35:54 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Sun Nov  7 05:28:53 2004
Subject: [osis-core] online schema validation
Message-ID: <418E16AA.1030509@sbl-site.org>

Greetings!

Nearly the final edit on the users manual and have inserted links to two 
online document validators that will validate documents using W3C schemas.

Should we offer to maintain a list of such services on the OSIS site?

BTW, who is in charge of the OSIS site now?

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Sun Nov  7 06:44:05 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Sun Nov  7 06:36:49 2004
Subject: [osis-core] work prefixes?
Message-ID: <418E26A5.4000505@sbl-site.org>

Greetings,

Is there any objection to requiring that work prefixes be lower case?

In other words, always 'kjv' and not 'KJV'?

Hope everyone is having a great day!

Patrick

-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 11:31:33 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  9 11:24:26 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
Message-ID: <002601c4c68a$6177e390$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

We have been over this many times but never reached a conclusion on the
structure for the value of <identifier type="OSIS">, Patrick and I are
working on getting the OSIS User Guide completed and we need to finalize
this piece.

Proposal:

WorkSelfIdentifier ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' PublisherOrAuthor
'.' Name '.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )*

WorkRefIdentifier  ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language ( '.'PublisherOrAuthor
('.' Name ('.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )? )?

OSISWorkType       ::=   'Annotation'
                       | 'Bible' 
                       | 'BibleStudy' 
                       | 'Concordance' 
                       | 'Commentary' 
                       | 'Devotional' 
                       | 'Dictionary' 
                       | 'ReferenceSystem' 
                       | 'Sermon'

Language           ::=   '_' 
                       | ISOLanguage 
                       | EthnologueLangauge

ISOLangauge        ::= ISO two or three letter language code lower case

EthnologueLanguage ::= Ethnologue three letter language code in upper
case

PublisherOrAuthor  ::=   '*' 
                       | OSISReservedPublishers
                       | NCName

OSISReservedPublishers ::=   'ABS'
                           | 'BL'
                           | 'CCEL'
                           | 'Crosswire'
                           | 'IBS'
                           | 'NTM'
                           | 'SBL'
                           | 'SIL'
                           | 'SF'
                           | 'UBS'
                           | 'WBT'
                           | 'WBTC'
                           | 'WBTI' 
                           | 'VS' 
                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
doc and also for members of the Forum of Bible Agencies)

Name               ::= OSISReservedNames
                       | NCName

OSISReservedNames  ::=   'CEV'
                       | 'GNT'
                       | 'KJV'
                       | 'NASB'
                       | 'NIV'
                       | 'RVR'
                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
doc)

Date               ::=
Year(Month(DayOfMonth(Hour(Minute(Second)?)?)?)?)?

Year               ::= [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]

Month              ::= [0-9][0-9]
                      
DayOfMonth         ::= [0-9][0-9]

Hour               ::= [0-9][0-9]

Minute             ::= [0-9][0-9]

Second             ::= [0-9][0-9]

PublisherExtension ::= NCName


The '_' value of language would be used in the case where the work is
language independent as would be the case for a ReferenceSystem.

The '*' value for PublisherOrAuthor would  be used for cases where a
reference is being make _to_ a work with the specified Name by any
PublisherOrAuthor.  (I am hopeful that this reasonably addresses Troy's
concern with having Name follow PublisherOrAuthor for cases like the
KJV).

The idea of fallback is intended.

The plan is to put out a version of the OSIS User Guide this week, so
please voice any comments or objections before that time.

Todd

From scribe at crosswire.org  Tue Nov  9 12:18:52 2004
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Tue Nov  9 12:09:25 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
In-Reply-To: <002601c4c68a$6177e390$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
References: <002601c4c68a$6177e390$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
Message-ID: <4191181C.3090904@crosswire.org>

Just a few quick notes.

s/Crosswire/CrossWire/

I am still in favour of:

OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' Name ('.' PublisherOrAuthor ('.' Date ( 
'.' PublisherExtension )* )? )?

I think if we are programmatically declining the ID from order of 
specificality to generality from right to left, the above order makes 
more sense.

e.g.

Bible.en.CEV.CrossWire.2004.b
If the book with the exact above ID does not exist, I would feel 
confident trimming from right to left to find a suitable match.

Debatable in my mind: transposing [date] and [publisher].

OSISWorkType
+GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)

    -Troy.





Todd Tillinghast wrote:

>We have been over this many times but never reached a conclusion on the
>structure for the value of <identifier type="OSIS">, Patrick and I are
>working on getting the OSIS User Guide completed and we need to finalize
>this piece.
>
>Proposal:
>
>WorkSelfIdentifier ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' PublisherOrAuthor
>'.' Name '.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )*
>
>WorkRefIdentifier  ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language ( '.'PublisherOrAuthor
>('.' Name ('.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )? )?
>
>OSISWorkType       ::=   'Annotation'
>                       | 'Bible' 
>                       | 'BibleStudy' 
>                       | 'Concordance' 
>                       | 'Commentary' 
>                       | 'Devotional' 
>                       | 'Dictionary' 
>                       | 'ReferenceSystem' 
>                       | 'Sermon'
>
>Language           ::=   '_' 
>                       | ISOLanguage 
>                       | EthnologueLangauge
>
>ISOLangauge        ::= ISO two or three letter language code lower case
>
>EthnologueLanguage ::= Ethnologue three letter language code in upper
>case
>
>PublisherOrAuthor  ::=   '*' 
>                       | OSISReservedPublishers
>                       | NCName
>
>OSISReservedPublishers ::=   'ABS'
>                           | 'BL'
>                           | 'CCEL'
>                           | 'Crosswire'
>                           | 'IBS'
>                           | 'NTM'
>                           | 'SBL'
>                           | 'SIL'
>                           | 'SF'
>                           | 'UBS'
>                           | 'WBT'
>                           | 'WBTC'
>                           | 'WBTI' 
>                           | 'VS' 
>                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
>doc and also for members of the Forum of Bible Agencies)
>
>Name               ::= OSISReservedNames
>                       | NCName
>
>OSISReservedNames  ::=   'CEV'
>                       | 'GNT'
>                       | 'KJV'
>                       | 'NASB'
>                       | 'NIV'
>                       | 'RVR'
>                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
>doc)
>
>Date               ::=
>Year(Month(DayOfMonth(Hour(Minute(Second)?)?)?)?)?
>
>Year               ::= [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]
>
>Month              ::= [0-9][0-9]
>                      
>DayOfMonth         ::= [0-9][0-9]
>
>Hour               ::= [0-9][0-9]
>
>Minute             ::= [0-9][0-9]
>
>Second             ::= [0-9][0-9]
>
>PublisherExtension ::= NCName
>
>
>The '_' value of language would be used in the case where the work is
>language independent as would be the case for a ReferenceSystem.
>
>The '*' value for PublisherOrAuthor would  be used for cases where a
>reference is being make _to_ a work with the specified Name by any
>PublisherOrAuthor.  (I am hopeful that this reasonably addresses Troy's
>concern with having Name follow PublisherOrAuthor for cases like the
>KJV).
>
>The idea of fallback is intended.
>
>The plan is to put out a version of the OSIS User Guide this week, so
>please voice any comments or objections before that time.
>
>Todd
>
>_______________________________________________
>osis-core mailing list
>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>  
>

From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 12:42:50 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  9 12:35:53 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
In-Reply-To: <4191181C.3090904@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <002801c4c694$4f7c1d50$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Troy,

There is a tension between very common works that are best identified by
their name and less by their PublisherOrAuthor and less common works
that are primarily known by the PublisherOrAuthor first.

The reason that I see to put the PublisherOrAuthor to the left of Name
is because in general the PublisherOrAuthor would be managing the values
to the right of their name with the exception of the OSISReservedNames.

I believe that we would be defining OSISReservedNames for the common
works which would make Bible.en.*.KJV work mostly in the way you desire.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:19 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
> 
> Just a few quick notes.
> 
> s/Crosswire/CrossWire/
> 
> I am still in favour of:
> 
> OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' Name ('.' PublisherOrAuthor ('.' Date (
> '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )?
> 
> I think if we are programmatically declining the ID from order of
> specificality to generality from right to left, the above order makes
> more sense.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> Bible.en.CEV.CrossWire.2004.b
> If the book with the exact above ID does not exist, I would feel
> confident trimming from right to left to find a suitable match.
> 
> Debatable in my mind: transposing [date] and [publisher].
> 
> OSISWorkType
> +GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)
> 
>     -Troy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> 
> >We have been over this many times but never reached a conclusion on
the
> >structure for the value of <identifier type="OSIS">, Patrick and I
are
> >working on getting the OSIS User Guide completed and we need to
finalize
> >this piece.
> >
> >Proposal:
> >
> >WorkSelfIdentifier ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language '.'
PublisherOrAuthor
> >'.' Name '.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )*
> >
> >WorkRefIdentifier  ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language (
'.'PublisherOrAuthor
> >('.' Name ('.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )? )?
> >
> >OSISWorkType       ::=   'Annotation'
> >                       | 'Bible'
> >                       | 'BibleStudy'
> >                       | 'Concordance'
> >                       | 'Commentary'
> >                       | 'Devotional'
> >                       | 'Dictionary'
> >                       | 'ReferenceSystem'
> >                       | 'Sermon'
> >
> >Language           ::=   '_'
> >                       | ISOLanguage
> >                       | EthnologueLangauge
> >
> >ISOLangauge        ::= ISO two or three letter language code lower
case
> >
> >EthnologueLanguage ::= Ethnologue three letter language code in upper
> >case
> >
> >PublisherOrAuthor  ::=   '*'
> >                       | OSISReservedPublishers
> >                       | NCName
> >
> >OSISReservedPublishers ::=   'ABS'
> >                           | 'BL'
> >                           | 'CCEL'
> >                           | 'Crosswire'
> >                           | 'IBS'
> >                           | 'NTM'
> >                           | 'SBL'
> >                           | 'SIL'
> >                           | 'SF'
> >                           | 'UBS'
> >                           | 'WBT'
> >                           | 'WBTC'
> >                           | 'WBTI'
> >                           | 'VS'
> >                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
> >doc and also for members of the Forum of Bible Agencies)
> >
> >Name               ::= OSISReservedNames
> >                       | NCName
> >
> >OSISReservedNames  ::=   'CEV'
> >                       | 'GNT'
> >                       | 'KJV'
> >                       | 'NASB'
> >                       | 'NIV'
> >                       | 'RVR'
> >                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
> >doc)
> >
> >Date               ::=
> >Year(Month(DayOfMonth(Hour(Minute(Second)?)?)?)?)?
> >
> >Year               ::= [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Month              ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >DayOfMonth         ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Hour               ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Minute             ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Second             ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >PublisherExtension ::= NCName
> >
> >
> >The '_' value of language would be used in the case where the work is
> >language independent as would be the case for a ReferenceSystem.
> >
> >The '*' value for PublisherOrAuthor would  be used for cases where a
> >reference is being make _to_ a work with the specified Name by any
> >PublisherOrAuthor.  (I am hopeful that this reasonably addresses
Troy's
> >concern with having Name follow PublisherOrAuthor for cases like the
> >KJV).
> >
> >The idea of fallback is intended.
> >
> >The plan is to put out a version of the OSIS User Guide this week, so
> >please voice any comments or objections before that time.
> >
> >Todd
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >osis-core mailing list
> >osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 13:05:23 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  9 12:57:55 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
In-Reply-To: <4191181C.3090904@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <002b01c4c697$761cd960$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Troy,

Perhaps a compromise for common works would be something like:
Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.Crosswire.WordLevelMarkup.2004

Where for OSISReservedNames the Publishers is OSIS and then following
the date the actual publisher/encoder of a specific instance would
follow.

This maintains the structure for the less common cases and still
provides full fallback behavior.

So a reference to the KJV in general would be Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.

The trick could possibly be something like Bible.en.OSIS.NIV.1984.IBS
rather than Bible.en.IBS.NIV.1984.

Thoughts?

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:19 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
> 
> Just a few quick notes.
> 
> s/Crosswire/CrossWire/
> 
> I am still in favour of:
> 
> OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' Name ('.' PublisherOrAuthor ('.' Date (
> '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )?
> 
> I think if we are programmatically declining the ID from order of
> specificality to generality from right to left, the above order makes
> more sense.
> 
> e.g.
> 
> Bible.en.CEV.CrossWire.2004.b
> If the book with the exact above ID does not exist, I would feel
> confident trimming from right to left to find a suitable match.
> 
> Debatable in my mind: transposing [date] and [publisher].
> 
> OSISWorkType
> +GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)
> 
>     -Troy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> 
> >We have been over this many times but never reached a conclusion on
the
> >structure for the value of <identifier type="OSIS">, Patrick and I
are
> >working on getting the OSIS User Guide completed and we need to
finalize
> >this piece.
> >
> >Proposal:
> >
> >WorkSelfIdentifier ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language '.'
PublisherOrAuthor
> >'.' Name '.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )*
> >
> >WorkRefIdentifier  ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language (
'.'PublisherOrAuthor
> >('.' Name ('.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )? )?
> >
> >OSISWorkType       ::=   'Annotation'
> >                       | 'Bible'
> >                       | 'BibleStudy'
> >                       | 'Concordance'
> >                       | 'Commentary'
> >                       | 'Devotional'
> >                       | 'Dictionary'
> >                       | 'ReferenceSystem'
> >                       | 'Sermon'
> >
> >Language           ::=   '_'
> >                       | ISOLanguage
> >                       | EthnologueLangauge
> >
> >ISOLangauge        ::= ISO two or three letter language code lower
case
> >
> >EthnologueLanguage ::= Ethnologue three letter language code in upper
> >case
> >
> >PublisherOrAuthor  ::=   '*'
> >                       | OSISReservedPublishers
> >                       | NCName
> >
> >OSISReservedPublishers ::=   'ABS'
> >                           | 'BL'
> >                           | 'CCEL'
> >                           | 'Crosswire'
> >                           | 'IBS'
> >                           | 'NTM'
> >                           | 'SBL'
> >                           | 'SIL'
> >                           | 'SF'
> >                           | 'UBS'
> >                           | 'WBT'
> >                           | 'WBTC'
> >                           | 'WBTI'
> >                           | 'VS'
> >                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
> >doc and also for members of the Forum of Bible Agencies)
> >
> >Name               ::= OSISReservedNames
> >                       | NCName
> >
> >OSISReservedNames  ::=   'CEV'
> >                       | 'GNT'
> >                       | 'KJV'
> >                       | 'NASB'
> >                       | 'NIV'
> >                       | 'RVR'
> >                       (fill in the rest of the values in the current
> >doc)
> >
> >Date               ::=
> >Year(Month(DayOfMonth(Hour(Minute(Second)?)?)?)?)?
> >
> >Year               ::= [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Month              ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >DayOfMonth         ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Hour               ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Minute             ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >Second             ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >
> >PublisherExtension ::= NCName
> >
> >
> >The '_' value of language would be used in the case where the work is
> >language independent as would be the case for a ReferenceSystem.
> >
> >The '*' value for PublisherOrAuthor would  be used for cases where a
> >reference is being make _to_ a work with the specified Name by any
> >PublisherOrAuthor.  (I am hopeful that this reasonably addresses
Troy's
> >concern with having Name follow PublisherOrAuthor for cases like the
> >KJV).
> >
> >The idea of fallback is intended.
> >
> >The plan is to put out a version of the OSIS User Guide this week, so
> >please voice any comments or objections before that time.
> >
> >Todd
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >osis-core mailing list
> >osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 13:53:30 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  9 13:46:05 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Continuation Quote mark enumerated values for
	<milestone>
Message-ID: <003d01c4c69e$2f267b40$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Chris,

Do you recall the names for the enumerated type values for <milestone>
to be used for continuation quote marks.  We add something for single
and double continuation quote marks.  Now we have only "cQuote".

Todd

From chrislit at crosswire.org  Tue Nov  9 16:45:00 2004
From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little)
Date: Tue Nov  9 16:37:55 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
In-Reply-To: <4191181C.3090904@crosswire.org>
References: <002601c4c68a$6177e390$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
	<4191181C.3090904@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <4191567C.5050809@crosswire.org>

Troy A. Griffitts wrote:

> OSISWorkType
> +GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)
> 
>    -Troy.

Suggest s/GeneralBook/Monograph/.

Other possibilities (I'm sure there are many more):
Article
Journal
Collection
Atlas
Hymnal
Manuscript (in the sense of a transcribed archeological artifact)
Scripture (someone come up with a better name--but I think we need 
something to cover the Book of Mormon, Quran, Nag Hammadi codices, 
pseudepigrapha, etc. that are essentially BCV, but not Bibles)

--Chris

From chrislit at crosswire.org  Tue Nov  9 16:51:00 2004
From: chrislit at crosswire.org (Chris Little)
Date: Tue Nov  9 16:43:45 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Continuation Quote mark enumerated values
	for	<milestone>
In-Reply-To: <003d01c4c69e$2f267b40$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
References: <003d01c4c69e$2f267b40$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
Message-ID: <419157E4.7000903@crosswire.org>

Todd,

I don't recall us ever having actually had these in the schema, though 
some talk of adding them does ring a bell.

--Chris

Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> Chris,
> 
> Do you recall the names for the enumerated type values for <milestone>
> to be used for continuation quote marks.  We add something for single
> and double continuation quote marks.  Now we have only "cQuote".
> 
> Todd
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core

From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 17:19:49 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  9 17:12:22 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
In-Reply-To: <4191567C.5050809@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <005b01c4c6bb$02455a20$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Chris,

Where are you on the structure order issue (and the variant with
Bible.en.OSIS.KJV)?

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Chris Little
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 4:45 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
> 
> Troy A. Griffitts wrote:
> 
> > OSISWorkType
> > +GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)
> >
> >    -Troy.
> 
> Suggest s/GeneralBook/Monograph/.
> 
> Other possibilities (I'm sure there are many more):
> Article
> Journal
> Collection
> Atlas
> Hymnal
> Manuscript (in the sense of a transcribed archeological artifact)
> Scripture (someone come up with a better name--but I think we need
> something to cover the Book of Mormon, Quran, Nag Hammadi codices,
> pseudepigrapha, etc. that are essentially BCV, but not Bibles)
> 
> --Chris
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 17:20:52 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Tue Nov  9 17:13:24 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Continuation Quote mark enumerated
	valuesfor	<milestone>
In-Reply-To: <419157E4.7000903@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <005c01c4c6bb$271aac60$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Chris,

Correct we have not added them to the schema, but we did reach some
conclusion that we would add something to OSIS 2.1 (which we are about
to release).

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Chris Little
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 4:51 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] Continuation Quote mark enumerated valuesfor
> <milestone>
> 
> Todd,
> 
> I don't recall us ever having actually had these in the schema, though
> some talk of adding them does ring a bell.
> 
> --Chris
> 
> Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > Do you recall the names for the enumerated type values for
<milestone>
> > to be used for continuation quote marks.  We add something for
single
> > and double continuation quote marks.  Now we have only "cQuote".
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osis-core mailing list
> > osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From scribe at crosswire.org  Tue Nov  9 23:22:48 2004
From: scribe at crosswire.org (Troy A. Griffitts)
Date: Tue Nov  9 23:15:04 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
In-Reply-To: <002b01c4c697$761cd960$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
References: <002b01c4c697$761cd960$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>
Message-ID: <4191B3B8.3080808@crosswire.org>

Todd,
	I still see no functional advantage to your suggestion.  What don't you 
like about:
Bible.en.KJV.1769.CrossWire.2004.WordLevelMarkup

which makes you want to arrange it to:
Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.Crosswire.WordLevelMarkup.2004

I don't understand what the confusing and extraneous OSIS is for, and 
why you'd want our publish date after any misc tags like WordLevelMarkup.


These things are not intuitive and unclear and seem to be to facilitate 
a _possible_ inconvenience of publishers who want their name first in 
the tag.

I believe my suggested structure is concise and utilitarian.



Todd Tillinghast wrote:

> Troy,
> 
> Perhaps a compromise for common works would be something like:
> Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.Crosswire.WordLevelMarkup.2004
> 
> Where for OSISReservedNames the Publishers is OSIS and then following
> the date the actual publisher/encoder of a specific instance would
> follow.
> 
> This maintains the structure for the less common cases and still
> provides full fallback behavior.
> 
> So a reference to the KJV in general would be Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.
> 
> The trick could possibly be something like Bible.en.OSIS.NIV.1984.IBS
> rather than Bible.en.IBS.NIV.1984.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Todd
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
>>bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:19 PM
>>To: osis-core@crosswire.org
>>Subject: Re: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
>>
>>Just a few quick notes.
>>
>>s/Crosswire/CrossWire/
>>
>>I am still in favour of:
>>
>>OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' Name ('.' PublisherOrAuthor ('.' Date (
>>'.' PublisherExtension )* )? )?
>>
>>I think if we are programmatically declining the ID from order of
>>specificality to generality from right to left, the above order makes
>>more sense.
>>
>>e.g.
>>
>>Bible.en.CEV.CrossWire.2004.b
>>If the book with the exact above ID does not exist, I would feel
>>confident trimming from right to left to find a suitable match.
>>
>>Debatable in my mind: transposing [date] and [publisher].
>>
>>OSISWorkType
>>+GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)
>>
>>    -Troy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Todd Tillinghast wrote:
>>
>>
>>>We have been over this many times but never reached a conclusion on
> 
> the
> 
>>>structure for the value of <identifier type="OSIS">, Patrick and I
> 
> are
> 
>>>working on getting the OSIS User Guide completed and we need to
> 
> finalize
> 
>>>this piece.
>>>
>>>Proposal:
>>>
>>>WorkSelfIdentifier ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language '.'
> 
> PublisherOrAuthor
> 
>>>'.' Name '.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )*
>>>
>>>WorkRefIdentifier  ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language (
> 
> '.'PublisherOrAuthor
> 
>>>('.' Name ('.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )? )?
>>>
>>>OSISWorkType       ::=   'Annotation'
>>>                      | 'Bible'
>>>                      | 'BibleStudy'
>>>                      | 'Concordance'
>>>                      | 'Commentary'
>>>                      | 'Devotional'
>>>                      | 'Dictionary'
>>>                      | 'ReferenceSystem'
>>>                      | 'Sermon'
>>>
>>>Language           ::=   '_'
>>>                      | ISOLanguage
>>>                      | EthnologueLangauge
>>>
>>>ISOLangauge        ::= ISO two or three letter language code lower
> 
> case
> 
>>>EthnologueLanguage ::= Ethnologue three letter language code in upper
>>>case
>>>
>>>PublisherOrAuthor  ::=   '*'
>>>                      | OSISReservedPublishers
>>>                      | NCName
>>>
>>>OSISReservedPublishers ::=   'ABS'
>>>                          | 'BL'
>>>                          | 'CCEL'
>>>                          | 'Crosswire'
>>>                          | 'IBS'
>>>                          | 'NTM'
>>>                          | 'SBL'
>>>                          | 'SIL'
>>>                          | 'SF'
>>>                          | 'UBS'
>>>                          | 'WBT'
>>>                          | 'WBTC'
>>>                          | 'WBTI'
>>>                          | 'VS'
>>>                      (fill in the rest of the values in the current
>>>doc and also for members of the Forum of Bible Agencies)
>>>
>>>Name               ::= OSISReservedNames
>>>                      | NCName
>>>
>>>OSISReservedNames  ::=   'CEV'
>>>                      | 'GNT'
>>>                      | 'KJV'
>>>                      | 'NASB'
>>>                      | 'NIV'
>>>                      | 'RVR'
>>>                      (fill in the rest of the values in the current
>>>doc)
>>>
>>>Date               ::=
>>>Year(Month(DayOfMonth(Hour(Minute(Second)?)?)?)?)?
>>>
>>>Year               ::= [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]
>>>
>>>Month              ::= [0-9][0-9]
>>>
>>>DayOfMonth         ::= [0-9][0-9]
>>>
>>>Hour               ::= [0-9][0-9]
>>>
>>>Minute             ::= [0-9][0-9]
>>>
>>>Second             ::= [0-9][0-9]
>>>
>>>PublisherExtension ::= NCName
>>>
>>>
>>>The '_' value of language would be used in the case where the work is
>>>language independent as would be the case for a ReferenceSystem.
>>>
>>>The '*' value for PublisherOrAuthor would  be used for cases where a
>>>reference is being make _to_ a work with the specified Name by any
>>>PublisherOrAuthor.  (I am hopeful that this reasonably addresses
> 
> Troy's
> 
>>>concern with having Name follow PublisherOrAuthor for cases like the
>>>KJV).
>>>
>>>The idea of fallback is intended.
>>>
>>>The plan is to put out a version of the OSIS User Guide this week, so
>>>please voice any comments or objections before that time.
>>>
>>>Todd
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>osis-core mailing list
>>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>osis-core mailing list
>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
From todd at contentframeworks.com  Wed Nov 10 09:07:51 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Wed Nov 10 09:00:28 2004
Subject: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS"> - Lets go with Troy's position
In-Reply-To: <4191B3B8.3080808@crosswire.org>
Message-ID: <000501c4c73f$71e533d0$646fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Troy,

The order of identifiers is better or worse depending on the work and
type of work.

1) For the case of KJV putting the name and date prior to the publisher
works well for fall back.

2) For the large number of Bible translations the name is not important
because the language and publisher (and possibly the date) uniquely
identify the translation.  In these cases the Name is simply the
language code repeated.  So Bible.DUG.WBTI.2004 would be better than
Bible.DUG.DUG.2004.WBTI and would be better than
Bible.DUG.WBTI.DUG.2004.

3) For sermons putting the person delivering/publishing the sermon,
followed by the date delivered, followed by the name would work better
for fall back.

4) For commentaries there will be cases where the publisher or the name
would be better placed first.

The attractive thing about putting the publisher prior to the name is
that we can say that aside from some reserved Names all of the values
after the publisher are up to the publisher (similar to sub domains
aside from the reserved Names).

In the interest of simplicity, agreement, and clean fall back in the
majority of cases where fallback will occur I am suggesting that we go
with Troy's preferred syntax
(Bible.en.KJV.1611.Crosswire.OtherIdentifers.If.Desired).

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 11:23 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
> 
> Todd,
> 	I still see no functional advantage to your suggestion.  What
don't
> you
> like about:
> Bible.en.KJV.1769.CrossWire.2004.WordLevelMarkup
> 
> which makes you want to arrange it to:
> Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.Crosswire.WordLevelMarkup.2004
> 
> I don't understand what the confusing and extraneous OSIS is for, and
> why you'd want our publish date after any misc tags like
WordLevelMarkup.
> 
> 
> These things are not intuitive and unclear and seem to be to
facilitate
> a _possible_ inconvenience of publishers who want their name first in
> the tag.
> 
> I believe my suggested structure is concise and utilitarian.
> 
> 
> 
> Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> 
> > Troy,
> >
> > Perhaps a compromise for common works would be something like:
> > Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.Crosswire.WordLevelMarkup.2004
> >
> > Where for OSISReservedNames the Publishers is OSIS and then
following
> > the date the actual publisher/encoder of a specific instance would
> > follow.
> >
> > This maintains the structure for the less common cases and still
> > provides full fallback behavior.
> >
> > So a reference to the KJV in general would be
Bible.en.OSIS.KJV.1769.
> >
> > The trick could possibly be something like
Bible.en.OSIS.NIV.1984.IBS
> > rather than Bible.en.IBS.NIV.1984.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> >>bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Troy A. Griffitts
> >>Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:19 PM
> >>To: osis-core@crosswire.org
> >>Subject: Re: [osis-core] <identifier type="OSIS">
> >>
> >>Just a few quick notes.
> >>
> >>s/Crosswire/CrossWire/
> >>
> >>I am still in favour of:
> >>
> >>OSISWorkType '.' Language '.' Name ('.' PublisherOrAuthor ('.' Date
(
> >>'.' PublisherExtension )* )? )?
> >>
> >>I think if we are programmatically declining the ID from order of
> >>specificality to generality from right to left, the above order
makes
> >>more sense.
> >>
> >>e.g.
> >>
> >>Bible.en.CEV.CrossWire.2004.b
> >>If the book with the exact above ID does not exist, I would feel
> >>confident trimming from right to left to find a suitable match.
> >>
> >>Debatable in my mind: transposing [date] and [publisher].
> >>
> >>OSISWorkType
> >>+GeneralBook (e.g. Josephus, That Hideous Strength, etc.)
> >>
> >>    -Troy.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Todd Tillinghast wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>We have been over this many times but never reached a conclusion on
> >
> > the
> >
> >>>structure for the value of <identifier type="OSIS">, Patrick and I
> >
> > are
> >
> >>>working on getting the OSIS User Guide completed and we need to
> >
> > finalize
> >
> >>>this piece.
> >>>
> >>>Proposal:
> >>>
> >>>WorkSelfIdentifier ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language '.'
> >
> > PublisherOrAuthor
> >
> >>>'.' Name '.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )*
> >>>
> >>>WorkRefIdentifier  ::= OSISWorkType '.' Language (
> >
> > '.'PublisherOrAuthor
> >
> >>>('.' Name ('.' Date ( '.' PublisherExtension )* )? )? )?
> >>>
> >>>OSISWorkType       ::=   'Annotation'
> >>>                      | 'Bible'
> >>>                      | 'BibleStudy'
> >>>                      | 'Concordance'
> >>>                      | 'Commentary'
> >>>                      | 'Devotional'
> >>>                      | 'Dictionary'
> >>>                      | 'ReferenceSystem'
> >>>                      | 'Sermon'
> >>>
> >>>Language           ::=   '_'
> >>>                      | ISOLanguage
> >>>                      | EthnologueLangauge
> >>>
> >>>ISOLangauge        ::= ISO two or three letter language code lower
> >
> > case
> >
> >>>EthnologueLanguage ::= Ethnologue three letter language code in
upper
> >>>case
> >>>
> >>>PublisherOrAuthor  ::=   '*'
> >>>                      | OSISReservedPublishers
> >>>                      | NCName
> >>>
> >>>OSISReservedPublishers ::=   'ABS'
> >>>                          | 'BL'
> >>>                          | 'CCEL'
> >>>                          | 'Crosswire'
> >>>                          | 'IBS'
> >>>                          | 'NTM'
> >>>                          | 'SBL'
> >>>                          | 'SIL'
> >>>                          | 'SF'
> >>>                          | 'UBS'
> >>>                          | 'WBT'
> >>>                          | 'WBTC'
> >>>                          | 'WBTI'
> >>>                          | 'VS'
> >>>                      (fill in the rest of the values in the
current
> >>>doc and also for members of the Forum of Bible Agencies)
> >>>
> >>>Name               ::= OSISReservedNames
> >>>                      | NCName
> >>>
> >>>OSISReservedNames  ::=   'CEV'
> >>>                      | 'GNT'
> >>>                      | 'KJV'
> >>>                      | 'NASB'
> >>>                      | 'NIV'
> >>>                      | 'RVR'
> >>>                      (fill in the rest of the values in the
current
> >>>doc)
> >>>
> >>>Date               ::=
> >>>Year(Month(DayOfMonth(Hour(Minute(Second)?)?)?)?)?
> >>>
> >>>Year               ::= [0-9][0-9][0-9][0-9]
> >>>
> >>>Month              ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >>>
> >>>DayOfMonth         ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >>>
> >>>Hour               ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >>>
> >>>Minute             ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >>>
> >>>Second             ::= [0-9][0-9]
> >>>
> >>>PublisherExtension ::= NCName
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The '_' value of language would be used in the case where the work
is
> >>>language independent as would be the case for a ReferenceSystem.
> >>>
> >>>The '*' value for PublisherOrAuthor would  be used for cases where
a
> >>>reference is being make _to_ a work with the specified Name by any
> >>>PublisherOrAuthor.  (I am hopeful that this reasonably addresses
> >
> > Troy's
> >
> >>>concern with having Name follow PublisherOrAuthor for cases like
the
> >>>KJV).
> >>>
> >>>The idea of fallback is intended.
> >>>
> >>>The plan is to put out a version of the OSIS User Guide this week,
so
> >>>please voice any comments or objections before that time.
> >>>
> >>>Todd
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>osis-core mailing list
> >>>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>osis-core mailing list
> >>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > osis-core mailing list
> > osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> > http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


From sderose at acm.org  Thu Nov 11 12:18:14 2004
From: sderose at acm.org (Steven J. DeRose)
Date: Thu Nov 11 12:18:05 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
In-Reply-To: <4187D656.2090801@sbl-site.org>
References: <4187D656.2090801@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <a06020417bdb96af59c2e@[192.168.1.103]>

Possible problem with monthly/weekly/yearly is what calendar... Like, 
say, a book of readings for days of the Hebrew month. then again, 
we're kinda biased toward our date system anyway.

Would reducing the number of prefixes make sense, by having a 
'cyclic.' one, with sub-types following for the unit on which the 
dates cycle?

    cyclic.month.1

would locate a reading for the first day of each month?

Just a thought.

S

At 13:47 -0500 2004-11-02, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>Doing serious work on the date format section.
>
>Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the 
>data format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work 
>prefix from a work element.
>
>Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and 
>yearly.n (to show a day of the year).
>
>Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss
>
>can show:
>
>yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07
>
>or
>
>yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)
>
>but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th 
>day of the year.
>
>Same lack noted for monthly.
>
>Would suggest something like:
>
>day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.
>
>Comments, suggestions?
>
>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>
>Patrick
>
>--
>Patrick Durusau
>Director of Research and Development
>Society of Biblical Literature
>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>
>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>osis-core mailing list
>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


-- 

Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
From sderose at acm.org  Thu Nov 11 12:18:14 2004
From: sderose at acm.org (Steven J. DeRose)
Date: Thu Nov 11 12:18:05 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
In-Reply-To: <4187D656.2090801@sbl-site.org>
References: <4187D656.2090801@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <a06020417bdb96af59c2e@[192.168.1.103]>

Possible problem with monthly/weekly/yearly is what calendar... Like, 
say, a book of readings for days of the Hebrew month. then again, 
we're kinda biased toward our date system anyway.

Would reducing the number of prefixes make sense, by having a 
'cyclic.' one, with sub-types following for the unit on which the 
dates cycle?

    cyclic.month.1

would locate a reading for the first day of each month?

Just a thought.

S

At 13:47 -0500 2004-11-02, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>Doing serious work on the date format section.
>
>Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the 
>data format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work 
>prefix from a work element.
>
>Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and 
>yearly.n (to show a day of the year).
>
>Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss
>
>can show:
>
>yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07
>
>or
>
>yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)
>
>but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th 
>day of the year.
>
>Same lack noted for monthly.
>
>Would suggest something like:
>
>day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.
>
>Comments, suggestions?
>
>Hope everyone is having a great day!
>
>Patrick
>
>--
>Patrick Durusau
>Director of Research and Development
>Society of Biblical Literature
>Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
>Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
>Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
>
>Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>osis-core mailing list
>osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
>http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core


-- 

Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
From sderose at acm.org  Thu Nov 11 12:20:38 2004
From: sderose at acm.org (Steven J. DeRose)
Date: Thu Nov 11 12:18:05 2004
Subject: [osis-core] another date format question
In-Reply-To: <4187DD09.6010408@sbl-site.org>
References: <4187DD09.6010408@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <a06020418bdb96b96c201@[192.168.1.103]>

At 14:16 -0500 2004-11-02, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>On enumerating traditional times, ex.
>
>yearly.06.04T~(Vespers)
>
>Should we require the parens? (Todd's question actually)
>
>In other words, the form above or:
>
>~Vespers (or any of the other enumerated times?
>
>Of course, then the question is do we require the '~' which 
>indicates approximate time. I don't know but suspect some people 
>don't consider the named times to be approximate.

It does seem kinda ugly with all that puctuation, doesn't it?

Any principled reason not to tear it down to TVespers or Tvespers or 
possibly T.vespers (though the last one seems inconsistent since 
numeric times don't get a dot after the "T")?

S
-- 

Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
From sderose at acm.org  Thu Nov 11 12:20:38 2004
From: sderose at acm.org (Steven J. DeRose)
Date: Thu Nov 11 12:18:06 2004
Subject: [osis-core] another date format question
In-Reply-To: <4187DD09.6010408@sbl-site.org>
References: <4187DD09.6010408@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <a06020418bdb96b96c201@[192.168.1.103]>

At 14:16 -0500 2004-11-02, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>On enumerating traditional times, ex.
>
>yearly.06.04T~(Vespers)
>
>Should we require the parens? (Todd's question actually)
>
>In other words, the form above or:
>
>~Vespers (or any of the other enumerated times?
>
>Of course, then the question is do we require the '~' which 
>indicates approximate time. I don't know but suspect some people 
>don't consider the named times to be approximate.

It does seem kinda ugly with all that puctuation, doesn't it?

Any principled reason not to tear it down to TVespers or Tvespers or 
possibly T.vespers (though the last one seems inconsistent since 
numeric times don't get a dot after the "T")?

S
-- 

Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
From sderose at acm.org  Thu Nov 11 12:21:10 2004
From: sderose at acm.org (Steven J. DeRose)
Date: Thu Nov 11 12:18:07 2004
Subject: [osis-core] online schema validation
In-Reply-To: <418E16AA.1030509@sbl-site.org>
References: <418E16AA.1030509@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <a06020419bdb96c10de99@[192.168.1.103]>

At 07:35 -0500 2004-11-07, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>Nearly the final edit on the users manual and have inserted links to 
>two online document validators that will validate documents using 
>W3C schemas.

Great!

>
>Should we offer to maintain a list of such services on the OSIS site?

Nah -- underpromise and overdeliver.

>
>BTW, who is in charge of the OSIS site now?

?

-- 

Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
From sderose at acm.org  Thu Nov 11 12:21:10 2004
From: sderose at acm.org (Steven J. DeRose)
Date: Thu Nov 11 12:18:20 2004
Subject: [osis-core] online schema validation
In-Reply-To: <418E16AA.1030509@sbl-site.org>
References: <418E16AA.1030509@sbl-site.org>
Message-ID: <a06020419bdb96c10de99@[192.168.1.103]>

At 07:35 -0500 2004-11-07, Patrick Durusau wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>Nearly the final edit on the users manual and have inserted links to 
>two online document validators that will validate documents using 
>W3C schemas.

Great!

>
>Should we offer to maintain a list of such services on the OSIS site?

Nah -- underpromise and overdeliver.

>
>BTW, who is in charge of the OSIS site now?

?

-- 

Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
From todd at contentframeworks.com  Tue Nov  9 13:27:23 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Fri Nov 12 13:06:03 2004
Subject: [osis-core] 
	RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting, table for review
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041105152403.03f9c6e0@mail.jaars.org>
Message-ID: <002c01c4c69a$8c190650$656fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Nathan,

I have added what I believe to be the mapping between USFM and OSIS that
best represents the established OSIS best practice for encoding Bibles.

Patrick Durusau reviewed the mapping and commented on the ones I had 
questions about and made suggestions.

In the process I also consulted the mapping that Jim Albright created
between USFM, OSIS, TE, and several flavors of SFM.  In several cases
the mapping expressed is identical to Jim's and in the majority of cases
the differences are conceptually the same and differ mainly by syntax
corrections.

A note of caution related to a mapping between USFM and OSIS: The
mapping will only be reliable if the format markers in the map are used
for the meaning assigned to the format marker and not simply to achieve
the presentation type typically associated with a given format marker.

There is a mail list already established for discussion of issues
related to OSIS and SFM (USFM more commonly moving forward).

Please send any questions, concerns, corrections, or comments related to
the attached mapping.

I will be arriving at CTC Thursday evening if I can be of help with
final questions or issues prior to you meeting Saturday.

Todd

(The two attached files are the same only different formats.)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathan Miles [mailto:nmiles@ubs-icap.org]
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 2:33 PM
> To: todd@contentframeworks.com; sderose@speakeasy.net;
Jeff_Gayle@sil.org;
> Alan_Conner@sil.org; kdeblois@biblesocieties.org;
jklassen@ubs-icap.org;
> Michael_Cochran@sil.org; Ed_Abrahamson@sil.org; Marie_Titus@sil.org
> Subject: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting, table for review
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I am sending this material out because a few people wanted
> review it in advance of "USFM to OSIS Best Practice"
> meeting.
> 
> My theory is that the main thing we need to do
> at this meeting is determine for the 170 or so USFM 2.0 markers
> exactly what OSIS tags we will generate.
> These tags and structure will of course need to be consistent
> with the OSIS schema and the Users Guide.
> 
> If you have a different proposal about what we should discuss
> at the meeting you should probably communicate it to the group ASAP.
> 
> Jeff Klassen has included the updated info for USFM 2.0 here:
> http://ubs-icap.org:8080/confluence/display/USFM/Home
> 
> The OSIS 2.0 schema and User Manual is here:
> http://www.bibletechnologies.net/UserManualandSchema.dsp
> 
> I am attaching a spreadsheet which proposes a mapping
> from USFM to OSIS.  Read it as follows:
> 
> Column A: USFM marker
> 
> Column B: IGNORE THIS COLUMN (When doing an actual conversion
> from USFM to OSIS it is one way of stating when an
> new USFM needs to force the closure of previously opened
> XML tags.  Specifically any XML tag generated with a larger
> value must be closed before opening any XML tags associated
> with the new marker)
> 
> Column C: The xml tags generated as a result of the USFM marker.
> X[@Y="Z"] means generate <X Y="Z">.
> This is XPATH notation.
> 
> If multiple tags are present, any not currently open must be
> generated.  Example \ip (intro paragraph) has value:
div[@type="intro"]//p
> This is intended to mean if there is not already a div of type "intro"
> open,
> generate a <div type="intro"> marker before creating the <p> marker
> for the paragraph.  The "//" is present because if a intro <div>
> is already open, there may have already been lower level intro
> section <div type="section"> already generated -- so
> // means more or less /.../
> or in this specific case /div[@type="section"]/.
> 
> Column D: text description of USFM marker
> 
> 
> I have no great emotional attachment to the proposed tags.
> If anyone would like to send me an alternate proposal I will include
> it and redistribute the updated table to the attendees.  Please place
you
> alternatives in
> Column E so that I can clearly see what you would like changed.
> 
> The biggest problem I see currently is that there are dozens of USFM
> markers that have no (to me at least) obviously correct mapping to
OSIS.
> In these cases I have created custom types (x-abc...).
> For each of these markers we will need to do one of the following.
> 
> o       Find an existing OSIS tag/type it should map to that I missed
> o       Create a new OSIS type (or in an extreme cases a new tag)
> o       Create a custom type (x-example) not defined directly in the
OSIS
> standard
> but used only with USFM origin data.
> 
> 
> 
> Nathan
> 
> -------------------------------
> Nathan_Miles@ubs-icap.org
> United Bible Societies
> 972 708 7377 (Dallas)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: xmltag2.xls
Type: application/vnd.ms-excel
Size: 75264 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/pipermail/osis-core/attachments/20041109/4b883f4f/xmltag2-0001.xls
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: xmltag2.csv
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 32336 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/pipermail/osis-core/attachments/20041109/4b883f4f/xmltag2-0001.obj
From Jim_Albright at wycliffe.org  Wed Nov 10 05:25:18 2004
From: Jim_Albright at wycliffe.org (Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org)
Date: Fri Nov 12 13:06:04 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Re: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting,
	table for review
Message-ID: <OF0014CA9D.D5AE9A46-ON85256F48.0015B0F4-85256F48.004431E8@notes.sil.org>

Sorry but we do need to keep more information here. It is allowed to have 
Chapter One, Chapter Two, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, ... as content of \cl. 
I have an example of that in print ... Satere, Brazil. Where "Chapter" and 
"One" and "Two" are in the vernacular. Yes this could be built into the 
style sheet but I think the appropriate place is where the translator put 
it.

Jim Albright
704 843-0582
Wycliffe Bible Translators


From Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org  Wed Nov 10 05:51:31 2004
From: Patrick.Durusau at sbl-site.org (Patrick Durusau)
Date: Fri Nov 12 13:06:04 2004
Subject: [osis-core] Re: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting,
 table for review
References: <OF0014CA9D.D5AE9A46-ON85256F48.0015B0F4-85256F48.004431E8@notes.sil.org>
Message-ID: <41920ED3.6000301@sbl-site.org>

Jim,

Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org wrote:
> Sorry but we do need to keep more information here. It is allowed to have 
> Chapter One, Chapter Two, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, ... as content of \cl. 
> I have an example of that in print ... Satere, Brazil. Where "Chapter" and 
> "One" and "Two" are in the vernacular. Yes this could be built into the 
> style sheet but I think the appropriate place is where the translator put 
> it.
> 

Sorry but I just got your post without seeing the one it is answering.

Can you send the suggestion to which you were responding?

Hope you are at the start of a great day!

Patrick



> Jim Albright
> 704 843-0582
> Wycliffe Bible Translators
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Patrick Durusau
Director of Research and Development
Society of Biblical Literature
Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model

Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!


From todd at contentframeworks.com  Wed Nov 10 07:45:35 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Fri Nov 12 13:06:04 2004
Subject: [osis-core] RE: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting,
	table for review
In-Reply-To: <OF0014CA9D.D5AE9A46-ON85256F48.0015B0F4-85256F48.004431E8@notes.sil.org>
Message-ID: <000201c4c733$fb321740$646fa8c0@BLUELIGHT>

Jim,

The Excel spreadsheet suggests that \cl does not need to be encoded in
OSIS because it can be generated by the rendering process.

I believe you are suggesting:
<chapter osisID="Matt.1" sID="Matt.1"/>
<title type="chapterLabel">Chapter One</title>
...

Is this correct?

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org [mailto:Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:25 AM
> To: osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu
> Cc: Alan_Conner@sil.org; Bob_Chaney@sil.org; 'Chris Little';
> Ed_Abrahamson@sil.org; Jeff_Gayle@sil.org; jklassen@ubs-icap.org;
> kdeblois@biblesocieties.org; Ken_Hubel@sil.org; Marie_Titus@sil.org;
> Michael_Cochran@sil.org; 'Nathan Miles';
osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org;
> osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu; 'Patrick Durusau'; sderose@speakeasy.net;
> todd@snowfallsoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting, table
for
> review
> 
> Sorry but we do need to keep more information here. It is allowed to
have
> Chapter One, Chapter Two, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, ... as content of \cl.
> I have an example of that in print ... Satere, Brazil. Where "Chapter"
and
> "One" and "Two" are in the vernacular. Yes this could be built into
the
> style sheet but I think the appropriate place is where the translator
put
> it.
> 
> Jim Albright
> 704 843-0582
> Wycliffe Bible Translators
> 


From Jim_Albright at wycliffe.org  Thu Nov 11 09:29:58 2004
From: Jim_Albright at wycliffe.org (Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org)
Date: Fri Nov 12 13:06:04 2004
Subject: [osis-core] RE: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting,
	table for review
Message-ID: <OF048EEF1A.9C1267BD-ON85256F49.004EC05A-85256F49.005A9818@notes.sil.org>

That is correct.

Jim Albright
704 843-0582
Wycliffe Bible Translators






"Todd Tillinghast" <todd@contentframeworks.com>
11/10/2004 09:45 AM
Please respond to osis-sfm

 
        To:     <Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org>, <osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu>
        cc:     <Alan_Conner@sil.org>, <Bob_Chaney@sil.org>, "'Chris Little'" 
<chrislit@crosswire.org>, <Ed_Abrahamson@sil.org>, <Jeff_Gayle@sil.org>, 
<jklassen@ubs-icap.org>, <kdeblois@biblesocieties.org>, 
<Ken_Hubel@sil.org>, <Marie_Titus@sil.org>, <Michael_Cochran@sil.org>, 
"'Nathan Miles'" <nmiles@ubs-icap.org>, 
<osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org>, <osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu>, "'Patrick 
Durusau'" <Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org>, <sderose@speakeasy.net>, 
<todd@snowfallsoftware.com>
        Subject:        RE: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting, table for review


Jim,

The Excel spreadsheet suggests that \cl does not need to be encoded in
OSIS because it can be generated by the rendering process.

I believe you are suggesting:
<chapter osisID="Matt.1" sID="Matt.1"/>
<title type="chapterLabel">Chapter One</title>
...

Is this correct?

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org [mailto:Jim_Albright@wycliffe.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 5:25 AM
> To: osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu
> Cc: Alan_Conner@sil.org; Bob_Chaney@sil.org; 'Chris Little';
> Ed_Abrahamson@sil.org; Jeff_Gayle@sil.org; jklassen@ubs-icap.org;
> kdeblois@biblesocieties.org; Ken_Hubel@sil.org; Marie_Titus@sil.org;
> Michael_Cochran@sil.org; 'Nathan Miles';
osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org;
> osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu; 'Patrick Durusau'; sderose@speakeasy.net;
> todd@snowfallsoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [osis-sfm] RE: OSIS to USFM Best Practice Meeting, table
for
> review
> 
> Sorry but we do need to keep more information here. It is allowed to
have
> Chapter One, Chapter Two, Chapter 3, Chapter 4, ... as content of \cl.
> I have an example of that in print ... Satere, Brazil. Where "Chapter"
and
> "One" and "Two" are in the vernacular. Yes this could be built into
the
> style sheet but I think the appropriate place is where the translator
put
> it.
> 
> Jim Albright
> 704 843-0582
> Wycliffe Bible Translators
> 




-- 
To unsubscribe send an email with subject unsubscribe to 
osis-sfm@whi.wts.edu.
Please contact klowery@whi.wts.edu for questions.



From todd at contentframeworks.com  Mon Nov 15 06:29:45 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Mon Nov 15 06:22:07 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
In-Reply-To: <a06020417bdb96af59c2e@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <000901c4cb17$2f82bcc0$744b16ac@BLUELIGHT>

Steve,

Sounds like a really good idea to me.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Steven J. DeRose
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:18 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org; osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Cc: Todd Tillinghast
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] date format
> 
> Possible problem with monthly/weekly/yearly is what calendar... Like,
> say, a book of readings for days of the Hebrew month. then again,
> we're kinda biased toward our date system anyway.
> 
> Would reducing the number of prefixes make sense, by having a
> 'cyclic.' one, with sub-types following for the unit on which the
> dates cycle?
> 
>     cyclic.month.1
> 
> would locate a reading for the first day of each month?
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> S
> 
> At 13:47 -0500 2004-11-02, Patrick Durusau wrote:
> >Greetings!
> >
> >Doing serious work on the date format section.
> >
> >Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the
> >data format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work
> >prefix from a work element.
> >
> >Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and
> >yearly.n (to show a day of the year).
> >
> >Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss
> >
> >can show:
> >
> >yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07
> >
> >or
> >
> >yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)
> >
> >but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th
> >day of the year.
> >
> >Same lack noted for monthly.
> >
> >Would suggest something like:
> >
> >day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.
> >
> >Comments, suggestions?
> >
> >Hope everyone is having a great day!
> >
> >Patrick
> >
> >--
> >Patrick Durusau
> >Director of Research and Development
> >Society of Biblical Literature
> >Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> >Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> >Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> >
> >Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >osis-core mailing list
> >osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
> Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
> Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core



From todd at contentframeworks.com  Mon Nov 15 06:29:45 2004
From: todd at contentframeworks.com (Todd Tillinghast)
Date: Mon Nov 15 06:22:08 2004
Subject: [osis-core] date format
In-Reply-To: <a06020417bdb96af59c2e@[192.168.1.103]>
Message-ID: <000901c4cb17$2f82bcc0$744b16ac@BLUELIGHT>

Steve,

Sounds like a really good idea to me.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: osis-core-bounces@crosswire.org [mailto:osis-core-
> bounces@crosswire.org] On Behalf Of Steven J. DeRose
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:18 PM
> To: osis-core@crosswire.org; osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> Cc: Todd Tillinghast
> Subject: Re: [osis-core] date format
> 
> Possible problem with monthly/weekly/yearly is what calendar... Like,
> say, a book of readings for days of the Hebrew month. then again,
> we're kinda biased toward our date system anyway.
> 
> Would reducing the number of prefixes make sense, by having a
> 'cyclic.' one, with sub-types following for the unit on which the
> dates cycle?
> 
>     cyclic.month.1
> 
> would locate a reading for the first day of each month?
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> S
> 
> At 13:47 -0500 2004-11-02, Patrick Durusau wrote:
> >Greetings!
> >
> >Doing serious work on the date format section.
> >
> >Note that unlike the drafts of the users manual, the prefix for the
> >data format now uses a period '.' to avoid conflict with the work
> >prefix from a work element.
> >
> >Todd has requested, monthly.n (to show the day of the month), and
> >yearly.n (to show a day of the year).
> >
> >Note that the current yearly date format: yearly.yyyy.mm.ddThh.mm.ss
> >
> >can show:
> >
> >yearly.2004.12.25T06.06.07
> >
> >or
> >
> >yearly.12.25 (to show Christmas Day for every year)
> >
> >but does not have a mechanism to specify a date, such as the 300th
> >day of the year.
> >
> >Same lack noted for monthly.
> >
> >Would suggest something like:
> >
> >day.nnn and weekly.n (we already use yearly.
> >
> >Comments, suggestions?
> >
> >Hope everyone is having a great day!
> >
> >Patrick
> >
> >--
> >Patrick Durusau
> >Director of Research and Development
> >Society of Biblical Literature
> >Patrick.Durusau@sbl-site.org
> >Chair, V1 - Text Processing: Office and Publishing Systems Interface
> >Co-Editor, ISO 13250, Topic Maps -- Reference Model
> >
> >Topic Maps: Human, not artificial, intelligence at work!
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >osis-core mailing list
> >osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> >http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Steve DeRose -- http://www.derose.net
> Chair, Bible Technologies Group -- http://www.bibletechnologies.net
> Email: sderose@acm.org  or  steve@derose.net
> _______________________________________________
> osis-core mailing list
> osis-core@bibletechnologieswg.org
> http://www.bibletechnologieswg.org/mailman/listinfo/osis-core