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Male alvanx
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

@mdbergmann: That sure would be interesting to know.

@Osk: Got it. :-)
[May 3, 2010 11:35:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male mdbergmann
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

So, according to DBG they have the copyright on the digital Menge texts.
I'm going to ask them for a co-operation. They have two more bibles which would be great we could have.

!!! But what would help is that anyone interested in Menge or GNB or any other Bible from DBG please write them and ask for SWORD modules...


Manfred
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by mdbergmann at May 6, 2010 7:36:13 AM]
[May 6, 2010 7:35:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male alvanx
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

Too bad to hear. I'm going to delete my stuff then.

Do you have their contact information? Or can it be found on the web?
[May 6, 2010 8:35:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male mdbergmann
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

That's their web page: http://www.dbg.de/
You'll find contact info there.

Manfred
[May 6, 2010 8:52:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male moharasij
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

I wrote an E-Mail to them asking for a digital Menge version and what else they are willing to share or do.
I'll write here when I get an answer.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by moharasij at May 8, 2010 2:32:13 PM]
[May 8, 2010 1:41:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male alvanx
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

Ok, I have to bring this up once more. I was reading about German copyright laws, and I would be very interested in their explanation of their copyright claims. I don't want to say they are making this up, but it seems hardly possible that the DBG could have a copyright for the mere work of digitalizing the text, except if they created a scientific edition (Wissenschaftliche Ausgabe), which they didn't (on their web shop , the mention it is an unaltered reprint (unveränderter Nachdruck).1

The following is an excerpt from the Deutsches Urheberrecht :
§ 2 Geschützte Werke
(1) Zu den geschützten Werken der Literatur, Wissenschaft und Kunst gehören insbesondere:

1.
Sprachwerke, wie Schriftwerke, Reden und Computerprogramme;
2.
Werke der Musik;
3.
pantomimische Werke einschließlich der Werke der Tanzkunst;
4.
Werke der bildenden Künste einschließlich der Werke der Baukunst und der angewandten Kunst und Entwürfe solcher Werke;
5.
Lichtbildwerke einschließlich der Werke, die ähnlich wie Lichtbildwerke geschaffen werden;
6.
Filmwerke einschließlich der Werke, die ähnlich wie Filmwerke geschaffen werden;
7.
Darstellungen wissenschaftlicher oder technischer Art, wie Zeichnungen, Pläne, Karten, Skizzen, Tabellen und plastische Darstellungen.

(2) Werke im Sinne dieses Gesetzes sind nur persönliche geistige Schöpfungen.


(2) states that only personal creative work can be copyrighted in any case. I am still waiting for the reply of a lawyer friend of mine who might have a better idea about this.


As already mentioned, the only exception that I found to this could be if their edition was a scientific edition (Wissenschaftliche Edition). That is because even when a text is in the public domain, there is a 25-year-copyright on a scientific edition. But just fixing up a few things won't make it into a scientific edition (I really hope this is the right English word). A scientific edition would be something like the Novum Testamentum Graece, or Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia.

So, again, it would be really interesting to hear back from them on this...
[Oct 4, 2010 2:04:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male mdbergmann
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

Hmm. I think someone else should get in contact with them.
I've played all my credits last time I believe.


Manfred
[Oct 4, 2010 10:30:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male alvanx
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

In fact after posting this, I decided I would contact them as soon as I hear back from my friend. And maybe I should read some more about copyright law.
[Oct 5, 2010 3:04:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male moharasij
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

I just came back from the Frankfurter Buchmesse and talked to Markus Hartmann the contact person from DBG for licensing decisions. He clearly told me that they decided not to give out the digital version of the Menge bible. He said they have rights on the digital version (especially the layout) and copying it would be illegal. He made clear that the only possibility to get a legal digital version of the Menge bible, is to copy it manually from a 1950 hard copy.

He also said that they do not provide their other bibles (Neue Genfer Übersetzung, Gute Nachricht, Revidierte Luther, Basisbibel) as sword modules because they would have to give support for the modules since people would see them as the support contact because they would be the sellers the modules. He said crosswire is not able to sell the modules because crosswire don't have the infrastructure for that.
In addition they currently do not have the resources to create and test those modules (he said that even if someone from crosswire did the conversion they would have to bring the bible texts in a format that can be imported in some way).

He also said he has made negative experience with Zefania. I think he doesn't really differentiate between Zefania and crosswire and thus sees them both as problematic.

He said that he thinks he will realistically have time for these matters again in autumn 2011 until then he will be busy with matters of the digital version of the Basisbibel amongst others.

Edit: made text a bit more clear.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by moharasij at Oct 7, 2010 11:59:31 PM]
[Oct 6, 2010 8:57:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male mdbergmann
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Re: German Menge-Bibel

Hmm, too bad. And some misinformation on their part.
I think the support thing can be handled properly in some way. And they already have the infrastructure to sell the modules so I don't see a problem there.
They would get something in return. Not only would they make those bibles available to more people but they would get their bibles in OSIS XML format.

Manfred
[Oct 6, 2010 1:44:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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