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Male willi
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lack of free german bible translation

Hello to all,

Is anyone interested in a new german translation of the bible?

In my opinion there is a lack of a free german translation "on the market". There are however very excellent german translations around (GerRLut, GerRElb ...), but none of which could be used in a free project like sword, because of licensing/copyright.
The ones which are available are quite outdated and horrible to read nowadays.

I feel that the time is ripe for a new free german translation just for this purpose!

Is anyone out there willing to assist?
[Apr 27, 2004 9:21:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male phpSword
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

There are at least 6 german versions available as sword modules that I know of.

Mark
http://christian.net/websword/
[Apr 27, 2004 10:53:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male vonFrehn
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

Well, I've had three module ideas in mind, a fourth that's in development. Unfortunately, most of them are pretty old:

Tepl 1385--a pre-Lutheran German NT. I and a fellow University of Tennessee alumnus are working on this one.

Luther 1545--the current module is actually a revision of a 1582 Bible based on the 1545, but is not the real deal. I'd like to find a few people who'd be willing to put together the text for it and give people the true 1545.

Z�rcher 1531--another Reformation Bible I'd like to see made into a module.

Z�rcher 1931--this one might be more agreeable to Willi. Unfortunately, I think the TVZ still holds copyright to it.

jth
[Apr 28, 2004 11:10:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male willi
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

Well, I know that there are 6 free german modules around. The problem with these is: they are quite old now. The german language is not like that anymore. This makes it quite hard to understand some phrases. (you don't win any battle with that blunt sword)

There are other german modules which are better in that respect. But the problem with these is: they are protected by copyrights, which makes them almost unusable in OpenSource software projects. IMHO this is (one of-)the reason(s) why eg. the sword-project is still very unpopular in the german community.

My idea is to create a new german translation from scratch. The base could be any free english version or even another free german version (example: GerSch) but the outcome should be written in todays german language.

    Project Goals (proposal):
  • free from copyrights. It should be a german translation of the bible which is free to spread and use and copy (and even print) to anyone. In order to protect that freedom, it could be necessary to release it under some sort of licence. I think of the FDL for this purpose. (GPL-pendant documentation license)
  • it should use todays german language. The emphasis is clearly on readability and understandability and not on closeness to the source text.
  • use multiple source texts. Since there is no strict link to one source text, it could actually use many different sources. My idea is that anyone willing can contribute some pieces according to the respective skills. (since my language skills are german and english, this is the way I would do it. Somebody else might see that different)


regards willi ...

vonFrehn: your project sounds really interesting, although your goal is actually in the opposite direction. To make a real old version available as a module is also quite an interesting task. This could teach me the skills needed for my project. (I seriously consider supporting you)

The Z�rcher 1931 is actually the first version of the bible where I learnt from. (Konfirmandenunterricht back in 1976...) Today, I would actually classify this also as outdated and, as you already stated, the copyright is still "on".
[May 2, 2004 7:20:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male vonFrehn
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

vonFrehn: your project sounds really interesting, although your goal is actually in the opposite direction. To make a real old version available as a module is also quite an interesting task. This could teach me the skills needed for my project. (I seriously consider supporting you)



Well, my interest in such a project stems from my love for Reformation Bibles. I wanted to have a searchable Luther or Z�rcher, complete with antiquated Rechtschreibung (for its historical value, if anything), something no one has really done yet.

I would like to get together a team of people who either have a copy of the Luther 1545 or 1534 (facsimiles available through the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft and Taschen, repectively) or the Z�rcher 1531 (facsimile available through the Theologicher Verlag Z�rich) or at least access to one. Work on typing up the verses, line by line, then submitting it to someone like Joachim Ansorg to convert to a module.

The Z�rcher 1931 is actually the first version of the bible where I learnt from. (Konfirmandenunterricht back in 1976...) Today, I would actually classify this also as outdated and, as you already stated, the copyright is still "on".



Sind Sie Schweizer? Die H�lfte meiner schweizerischen Freunde lesen auch die Z�rcher 1931.

viele Gr��e!
jth
[May 2, 2004 11:27:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male willi
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

Sind Sie Schweizer? Die H�lfte meiner schweizerischen Freunde lesen auch die Z�rcher 1931.

Ja, ich bin reformierter Schweizer! Die andere H�lfte sind dann wahrscheinlich die Katholiken, die kennen die Z�rcher �bersetzung nicht. biggrin Bei uns war diese Bibel ein Konfirmationsgeschenk. Wahrscheinlich haben das "gesamtschweizerisch" alle reformierten so bekommen.smile

Support for your project: this means, to support you would actually be very simple. All I need is a copy of a Luther 15xx or Z�rcher 1531. I'll go an try to find one in the library of my parents. There's a good chance to find one!

regards willi ...
[May 3, 2004 2:52:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male jansorg
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

At the moment chances are good that the german Bible "Hoffnung f�r alle" will be shipped from the copyright holder as a locked module for a fee.

Since Sword supports encryption of modules it's possible to have locked modules which can be sold by the copyright holders.

Joachim
[May 4, 2004 7:00:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male willi
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

Well this sounds like good news. But there are a few "but's":

  • The "locked module" distribution is something which is not that common in OpenSource distribution. Although I personally don't mind paying for a module, I still believe that this might prevent some people from using that software. In really extreme cases it could eventually block the inclusion of software like BibleTime in OpenSoftware distributions.
  • When? when will that happen? aren't they talking about that subject already a loooon time?

I still believe that there is a need for something really free!

willi...
[May 6, 2004 10:04:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male jansorg
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

Hm,

the software itself is open source, the modules have their own license.

If people reject BibleTime because it supports locked modules which are not even shipped by default but have to be bought from the publisher then it's their problem.
BibleTime and Sword itself support locked modules since years, and nobody complained about it.

But: A free german translation would be great.

About the time: The conversation with the publisher started about 2 weeks ago and chances are good that it will happen.

Joachim
[May 6, 2004 2:30:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Male vonFrehn
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Re: lack of free german bible translation

Ja, ich bin reformierter Schweizer!


Gro�artig!


Support for your project: this means, to support you would actually be very simple. All I need is a copy of a Luther 15xx or Z�rcher 1531. I'll go an try to find one in the library of my parents. There's a good chance to find one!

regards willi ...



You know, there used to be a Bibel-Programm using the Z�rcher 1931 in the good ol' days of DOS. Someone online used to have a link to it, but because of copyright issues with the 1931, he removed it.

Having a copy of that would greatly expedite matters, at least where the 1931 is concerned.

I have copies of the Luther 1534, 1545, and the Z�rcher 1531 and 1931, all of which I either purchased, or they were given to me. So, I have a hard copy of the text here.

My email address is in my profile. Keep in touch with me if you really want to support one of these projects.

jth
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by vonFrehn at May 6, 2004 10:47:20 PM]
[May 6, 2004 10:40:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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