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The SWORD Project for Handhelds
PocketSword for iPhone/iPod Touch
Thread: Russian Language Bible (specifically Old Testament)
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Thread Status: Active Total posts in this thread: 39
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cgngon
Regular Joined: Apr 28, 2011 Post Count: 26 Status: Offline |
Hi, I used tools describe here http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/DevTools:Modules to validate the module, and found that there is missing verse numbers in the original document used to create this module. The verses are present, but some verse number are missing. If you can add missing number (using a paper russian synodal bible), and send me a new file by mail or another link to better source document, i will be able to create a module without error and submit it to sword team. Hère is a file with actual error (missing verse). http://cjoint.com/?3Emr87uVXxt Regards ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by cgngon at May 13, 2011 12:09:16 PM] |
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wwjdusa
Regular United States Joined: May 2, 2011 Post Count: 15 Status: Offline |
I analyzed the "missing verses" which your program displayed. All of the "missing verses" fall in either three categories: The first category is missing number in the original Russian Bible file. For example, your program showed that Genesis 8:22 is missing. I checked with my paper Russian Bible. In the text file, the actual verse is present, but number "22" was missing. I went ahead and added "22" to the text file. Next on your list, Genesis 14:20 is missing. I went to the original text file here are the numbers ... "18", "19", "21", "22". The actual verse "20" was present, but the number "20" was missing. I went ahead and added the number "20". Similar problem existed for the other verses, that the actual verses were present, but the number was sometimes missing. I am currently working on correcting this problem and when I am finished, I will post the original file with the corrected verses. The second category is that there is a slight difference in English and Russian Bible. Please understand me correctly, the two Bibles have the same content, but the numbering are sometimes different. For example, in English Bible, in Chapter 1 of Song of Solomon, there are 17 verses. In Russian Bible, in Chapter 1 of Song of Solomon, there are 16 verses. In English Bible, there is verse 16 and 17. In Russian Bible, verse 16 and 17 are combined together and labeled as verse 16. Your program detects that verse 17 is missing, while in reality, nothing is missing. Another example is Numbers 12-13. In English Bible, Numbers 12 has 16 verses. In Russian Bible, Numbers 12 has 15 verses. However, E. Number 12:16 = R. Numbers 13:1, E. Number 13:1 = R. Numbers 13:2, E. Number 13:2 = R. Numbers 13:3, ..., E. Number 13:33 = R. Numbers 13:34. In English Bible, Numbers 13 has 33 verses, while the Russian Bible has 34 verses. This is the second category of problem. I will work on a list which would display all of these differences. The third category was a number without a space. The verses which were separated had a space and then a number. The verses which were not separated had a period(dot) following by a number, and did not have a space. For odd reason, when there is not a space, your program did not separate the verses. I am manually adding a spacing to the needed verses. Most of the problems fall either in category #2 or #3 Also, in my life, I studied the Russian Bible (RSV) and many different versions of the English Bible. From my experience, the RSV is the closest to the KJV. For example, RSV and KJV have the following phrase in the Lord's Prayer: "For Thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory". To my surprise, many new version have phrases like these cut out. Please give me some time and I will work on correcting the numbering. Thanks. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by wwjdusa at May 14, 2011 11:58:02 AM] |
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wwjdusa
Regular United States Joined: May 2, 2011 Post Count: 15 Status: Offline |
I went ahead and corrected the "missing verses". I did not make any corrections with the books of Psalms, since the Russian and the English numbering are a lot different. Allow me to bring you some examples: In English, Psalm 3 has this title, "A Psalm of David, when he fled from Absalom his son". Then, verse 1 says, "LORD, how are they increased that trouble me! many are they that rise up against me". In the Russian Bible, Psalm 3:1 says, "A Psalm of David, when he fled from Absalom his son". Psalm 3:2, says, "LORD, how are they increased that trouble me! many are they that rise up against me". Through this, the Russian Bible has one additional verse in many of the psalms. Other than the additional verse, there is another problem, which is "One Psalm split". The English Psalm 9 and Psalm 10 have the same content as Russian Psalm 9. Then, E. Psalm 11 = R. Psalm 10, E. Psalm 12 = R. Psalm 11 and etc. This continues until English Psalm 147. In Russian Psalm 146 and 147 have the same content as English Psalm 147. Therefore, in the end, both English and the Russian Bible have 150 Psalms. I'm attaching a file separately, which has the book of Psalms with English numbering. The numbers which are bold are the English numbers. The numbers which are in parenthesis are the Russian numbers. If you try to run this file through your program, then it should parse correctly. Here is the Psalm file: https://sites.google.com/site/wwjdru/Psalm.doc?attredirects=0&d=1 I previously told you that all of the "missing verses" fall into 3 categories. Just now, I finished the missing verse list. I indeed found one missing verse, which was missing from the original file. The only missing verse was Hebrews 7:18 and I added it to the Bible.doc file. Most of the errors occurred because of category #3. Here is the modified Bible.doc file which has the corrections: https://sites.google.com/site/wwjdru/Bible.doc?attredirects=0&d=1 There were some errors as the result of category #2. All of these verses need to be changed manually. The numbering is set to English, but the numbers which are in parenthesis are the Russian numbering. Here is the file which lists all of the "numbering" differences: https://sites.google.com/site/wwjdru/VerseDifference.xls?attredirects=0&d=1 Please process the files and tell me which additional problems you encounter. Thanks. Once again, thank you for helping create the Russian language Bible. May God bless you for all your hard work. |
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cgngon
Regular Joined: Apr 28, 2011 Post Count: 26 Status: Offline |
Hi Thank you for all explanations! I process the new bible file after some small corrections (collapses verses number). Here is the error log http://cjoint.com/?3EqvVF1lAkO I think the only errors is now due to differences between synodal and english version. I post the IMP file use to generate the bible http://cjoint.com/?3EqvWDAA9Wl You want me to generate and english compatible version, you can correct the IMP file (more easy to correct) and send me new file to generate new bible with. Here is the new bible module without error (within the meaning of synodal version) http://cjoint.com/?3EqvZs4jb8c I wil send you by mail my personnal ftp site to download this module with your iphone without using bonjour. I will explain to you how to add ftp source in pocketsword to directly download this module in your iphone. So you will be able to test it before i post it to sword team. Thanks and regards. PS: just updated files. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by cgngon at May 16, 2011 12:55:11 PM] |
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cgngon
Regular Joined: Apr 28, 2011 Post Count: 26 Status: Offline |
Hi, I juste create another module with psalms in english format. So the new error log file is this (without psalms errors) http://cjoint.com/?3EqxIkYFa3g New IMP file for remaining corrections is this (unzip and do the corrections in this file and send it back to me in another zip file to avoid browser character encoding) http://cjoint.com/?3EqxNer8M1K and new module is this. http://cjoint.com/?3Eqx3vsYMgf We are very close to have a module without error. Could you or someone else reading this post can help doing remaining corrections for this module to match english bible totally? Or do you prefer synodal verse references? Let me known. Thanks and regards. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by cgngon at May 16, 2011 3:04:26 PM] |
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niccarter
Veteran Australia Joined: Dec 17, 2009 Post Count: 198 Status: Offline |
Hi guys, sounds like you're having great success with this! Did you know that you can use an alternative versification to create your module? You don't need to stick to the KJV versification, but instead there are Synodal versifications that PocketSword supports that may better suite your Bible? Also, when you are using additional sources for the module, make sure that those sources are also under the Public Domain (or another appropriate freely distributable licence). We would love to be able to use the module so that everyone can access and benefit from it! :) I've been keeping an excited eye on this thread and can't wait to see the results -- sorry I've been so busy, otherwise I would have replied earlier and would be offering to help test it, but I don't have time right now, sorry! Thanks, ybic Nic... :) ---------------------------------------- PocketSword Developer http://twitter.com/PocketSword |
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cgngon
Regular Joined: Apr 28, 2011 Post Count: 26 Status: Offline |
Hi, Thank you so much Nic for your precious indications. I found that indeed sword is able to deal with differents versification! Located here: http://www.crosswire.org/wiki/Alternate_Versification and : http://www.crosswire.org/svn/sword-tools/trun...asicv11ns/canon_synodal.h So no more need to convert this module to english versification or add another source than original public domain one. I compil the module with the synodal versification. David, The only remaining errors (instead of missing Apocrypha's books,chapters or verses) is : Psalms 101:28 (missing verse number) Psalms 114:9 (missing verse number) Proverbs 18:25 (missing verse number) So, only 3 verses number is needed to have or module rigth. Here is error log file http://cjoint.com/?3Ero6b3aVkz Here is new module for test http://cjoint.com/?3Ero7VHt2xH Find it also in my personnal ftp server. Could you tell me where to add missing verse number? No need to post all document for that. After that, the module will be ready to be submit to Sword. Thanks and Regards. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by cgngon at May 17, 2011 8:41:23 AM] |
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cgngon
Regular Joined: Apr 28, 2011 Post Count: 26 Status: Offline |
Hi, I did the correction with regard to this site http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index.php?action=getVersionInfo&vid=13 Added missing verse number Psalms 114:9 and Psalms 101:28, but i found that Proverbs 18:25 do not exist in synodal version of russian bible. I will built the new module without error and send it to sword. Regard. |
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niccarter
Veteran Australia Joined: Dec 17, 2009 Post Count: 198 Status: Offline |
Ahh, one quick other comment is that there is both a Synodal v11n and a Protestant version of the Synodal v11n which won't expect the Apocrypha... :) You can pick and choose which to use based on the available text you are using :) Thanks, ybic nic... :) ---------------------------------------- PocketSword Developer http://twitter.com/PocketSword |
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wwjdusa
Regular United States Joined: May 2, 2011 Post Count: 15 Status: Offline |
I apologize that it took me a while to respond to your messages... I have summer classes and at times, I have little time. I followed your instructions for "FTP" and I was successfully able to download the Russian Bible. Thank you for keeping your computer on, so that I could download the file. It makes no difference for me whether the numbering is in English format or in Russian format. However, most Russian speaking people would prefer the Russian format, since it exactly matches the Russian Bibles. Many people are not aware that the numbering is slight different between the English Bible and the Russian Bible. To these people, it would be slightly confusing if they open Psalm 100 and it shows Psalm 101. Yes, Psalms 114:9 and Psalms 101:28 have the actual verse, but had a missing verse number. Just in case, here is the corrected file: https://sites.google.com/site/wwjdru/Bible.doc?attredirects=0&d=1 In Russian language, there are two Bibles. The two Bibles have identical texts, but have different amount of books. The first Bible is the "Canon Bible" and it has 66 books like the English Bible. The second Bible is the "Full Bible" and it has additional books like "Wisdom of Solomon" and "Maccabees". In the Slavic culture, the Protestant denominations accept and read the "Full Bible". In America, the only the Catholics use the "Full Bible" and Catholics call it "Catholic Bible" or "Apocrypha books". In Slavic culture, the "Full Bible" is not recommended for new believers because of its content. For example, in Maccabees, Jews are fried on pans because they refuse to eat pork. As the result, many churches prefer the "Canon Bible", while at times do actually use the "Full Bible". As for Proverbs 18:25... It falls into the "Full Bible" category. If you open a "Canon Bible", then you will not find Proverbs 18:25. Also, if you open a Canon Bible, then you will not find these verses: Manasses, I Esdras, II Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Epistle of Jeremiah, Baruch, I Maccabees, II Maccabees, III Maccabees, Daniel 3:34-100, Daniel 13, Daniel 14, Psalms 151, Proverbs 18:25 Please remove these from your list and compile/create the "Canon Bible". Once it is compiled, notify me and I will download it from your IP address. I will once again go through the verification process. After we are fully finished with the "Canon Bible"... If you would like, I can help you create a "Full RSV Bible". However, we would need to obtain "special approval" from the "official servers". The reason that I say this, is that they might refuse to host "Full RSV Bible", because it contains "apocrypha books". By the way, the RSV Full Bible does not have "Manasses", while it does have "III Maccabees". ("III Maccabees" is not on your error list). Also canon "Ezra" is the exact same book as full Bible "1 Esdras". |
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